Crown

Board: Porsche - 911 - 997 - Turbo Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread


    Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

    This is getting goooood; stay tuned... same bat time, same bat channel!
    (My money's on the VW bug with the afterburner.)

    Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

    Quote:
    mumbasic said:
    Quote:
    zzboba said:
    Quote:
    No, no, but the Cayenne Turbo S in the hands of some special drivers will absolutely demolish the CGT, the Enzo and the Veyron..



    Not to mention that it will actually GAIN fuel while thrashing these cars!



    You mean by driving the car you gain energy. It is the solution for all our energy problems

    AM

    PS. are you saturday in Kalrsruhe?



    Well, now that could solve some financial problems, so RC won't have to decide which sports car to choose, but to get them all.

    Just imagine: a 997tt, a Murciélago, a CGT, perhaps one or two Ferrari, even if he thinks they are too bling-bling.

    Positive side effect for all other rennteamers: no more bashing of the "wrong" model.

    Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

    Looking forward to read all the comparison....
    There will be great competition as everyone seems to have a point to prove and the show his driving skills

    Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    dhayek said:

    as for the CT story , it has been told by christian ,that i personally believe, i know he is not the "i am always the best" type , so i believe him ,and the 430 spyder was driven by CR , also a moderator on this forum . i am surprised as much as you are of the outcome ,and i dont know how many hp the CT . thats the story ,you believe it or you dont..



    Dimitri, we're having a Rennteam Party on Saturday, incl. a short shootout on Sunday if the weather permits. At least we'll know for sure which car(s) will be faster. One thing I already know, the Turbo with manual is slowlier than my car, we tested it last weekend (apparently some Users like to overlook some of my posts and just pick what is convenient to their beliefs ). There will be a 996 GT2 MkII too for comparison, the mentioned F430 Spider (CR), the Corvette Z06 and other nice cars. Since my car is still new, I will not put too much importance into the results. But if the Vette/F430 are several car lengths ahead during the "shootout", then I will pay respect to them and acknowledge that I was wrong. But I have a little feeling that this ain't going to happen.


    WOW! i am dying to be there with you guys! i will be on my pc sunday waiting for your posts! i like the fact that there is a z06 with you , a bigger challenge than the f430..
    i wish you had a REAR view cam on your car , we would have seen some manual tt's

    Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

    RC,
    You understand that we are dying for the pics and the vids eh? Please post tons of them!
    -Joost-

    Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

    Quote:
    Joost said:
    RC,
    You understand that we are dying for the pics and the vids eh? Please post tons of them!
    -Joost-



    We need videos. Lots of videos... Did I mention we also need videos?

    Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

    yup, and on top of that, we need wallpapers of all the porsche models... we need wallpapers... tons of wallpapers!
    -Joost-

    Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

    Quote:
    Joost said:
    yup, and on top of that, we need wallpapers of all the porsche models... we need wallpapers... tons of wallpapers!
    -Joost-



    Gotcha!

    Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

    Quote:
    dhayek said:
    WOW! i am dying to be there with you guys! i will be on my pc sunday waiting for your posts! i like the fact that there is a z06 with you , a bigger challenge than the f430..
    i wish you had a REAR view cam on your car , we would have seen some manual tt's



    Get into a plane and come over, I can send you the details via PM. Before somebody gets a little bit too enthusiastic: we're not doing our "shootout" we planned before but we're meeting at a party which is actually done with a different occasion. But of course there will be lots of nice cars and nice people and we hopefully get the chance to do a few acceleration runs on Sunday to have at least an idea which car would be faster. IF.

    Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    AUM said:
    My opinions are developing though experience and analysis of others' experience, but like most other forum participants my opinions have little consequence or impact on others.



    Experience? You don't even have a 997 Turbo.
    Do you think we're running Rennteam just to blow some hot air? We had this crap several years with other car forums, no need to repeat that again.

    It seems some people are in complete denial and even if I have some understanding for this, I slowly get annoyed.

    You don't like what I say, fine. But PROVE it and don't say you heard this and that, bla bla bla.
    So whenever you get your car, we can meet on the track, on the street, whereever you want. And I can PROVE to you what I'm saying and not by showing off how good or bad I'm driving but showing you the capabilities of a Tip equipped car and how easy it is to control. Deal?




    It does not take a professional race driver to benefit from manual LSD on a track like the NBR. Average track enthusiasts will certainly post faster laps with manual LSD than with Tip.

    I drive at the Ring every week (where nothing has overtaken my car for the last 30 laps) and it is traction and stability that are paramount, not gear changes.

    Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

    Quote:
    RC said:
    One thing I already know, the Turbo with manual is slowlier than my car, we tested it last weekend (apparently some Users like to overlook some of my posts and just pick what is convenient to their beliefs ).



    RC,you have too much boost on your car..this thing help the Tip a lot!!

    Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

    f430vsturbo....this is the challange!

    Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

    'We had this crap several years.....' RC

    The use of intemperate language sullies your public persona.

    Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    imagine if the F430 was AWD and had E diff at both ends.



    I can imagine that. And I imagine it would be much less fun and involving to drive.

    Gary

    Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

    Quote:
    Gary(SF) said:
    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    imagine if the F430 was AWD and had E diff at both ends.



    I can imagine that. And I imagine it would be much less fun and involving to drive.

    Gary


    I agree...

    Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

    The 997 Turbo manual with LSD also has a unique PSM setup. One characteristic is a DECREASE in the use of ABD to brake the rear wheels which results in a more efficient use of power and a more enjoyable driving experience.

    Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

    Walter has proved that the manual LSD is faster than the Tip on the Ring. Less skilled drivers have yet to compare both transmissions back-to-back with the same driver and set-up.

    When is this controlled NBR comparison going to take place, RC?

    Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

    AUM Please go to the Rennteam party.

    "I drive at the Ring every week (where nothing has overtaken my car for the last 30 laps)"

    They need you for the shooting, er shoot out.


    Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

    Jim that was funny

    Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

    Here is a pic of a REAL networked Porsche. All of its power is available in the first nanosecond of acceleration. It has already been tested and proved to be shockingly quicker than the 997TT, easily crushing it up to its top speed.

    Unlike the 997 that sounds like one electric toothbrush, this Exclusive department Seimens powered Porsche sounds like TWO electric toothbrush's and one coffee grinder racing by.

    Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

    LOL! Excellent post Jim! You are my hero...

    Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

    First time poster, joined today.

    I, for one, read every bit of info on the Tip vs. manual controversy. The dispassionate opinions are most useful, but whatever. My 997tt is not even ordered yet - long line. I'd decided to wait for PDK, then bought an Audi A3 3.2 with DSG. The DSG is fun and interesting - very fast - but also disengaging and a bit wacky. So I jumped in line to order a manual 997tt.

    I almost certainly won't track this car - I have a highly modified 993tt for that purpose. And, honestly, I'm not even that "spirited" a driver anymore - when I take my Porsches out, wiggling a gearshift and pushing a clutch are "fun" activities for me - 6/10ths on a public road is just fine by me, 90% of the time. Plus, the perfect heel&toe always feels good to me. Even if the Tip is great and the PDK greater, I'd miss this "anachronism". Trying to wrap my mind around this new technology and adopt it as "fun" is hard, after shifting for so many years.....

    I want to say thanks for continuing the debate. It IS useful to some of us readers.

    Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

    Quote:
    Charlie997tt said:
    First time poster, joined today.

    I, for one, read every bit of info on the Tip vs. manual controversy. The dispassionate opinions are most useful, but whatever. My 997tt is not even ordered yet - long line. I'd decided to wait for PDK, then bought an Audi A3 3.2 with DSG. The DSG is fun and interesting - very fast - but also disengaging and a bit wacky. So I jumped in line to order a manual 997tt.

    I almost certainly won't track this car - I have a highly modified 993tt for that purpose. And, honestly, I'm not even that "spirited" a driver anymore - when I take my Porsches out, wiggling a gearshift and pushing a clutch are "fun" activities for me - 6/10ths on a public road is just fine by me, 90% of the time. Plus, the perfect heel&toe always feels good to me. Even if the Tip is great and the PDK greater, I'd miss this "anachronism". Trying to wrap my mind around this new technology and adopt it as "fun" is hard, after shifting for so many years.....

    I want to say thanks for continuing the debate. It IS useful to some of us readers.



    Welcome aboard Charlie,

    My situation is only slightly dissimilar to yours-I have been on my dealer's 997TT list since last summer-initially for the TSCab...now extended to include TCab, GT2, TSCoupe, GT1 ( )...but I couldn't bear being Turboless any longer so last summer I "broke down"( ) and picked up a 2005 996 TSCab, then modded it this winter-BUT I still plan to get a 997TT of some formulation. I'll likely keep my 996TT, though with it.

    How much, pray tell, did you mod. your 993TT? The 993TT and 993TTS are fantastic cars!

    Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

    Quote:
    AUM said:

    It does not take a professional race driver to benefit from manual LSD on a track like the NBR. Average track enthusiasts will certainly post faster laps with manual LSD than with Tip.

    I drive at the Ring every week (where nothing has overtaken my car for the last 30 laps) and it is traction and stability that are paramount, not gear changes.



    Quote:
    Erik said:
    The 997 Turbo manual with LSD also has a unique PSM setup. One characteristic is a DECREASE in the use of ABD to brake the rear wheels which results in a more efficient use of power and a more enjoyable driving experience.



    Although I agree with both of your sentiments, I tend to agree somewhat with RC on this point. I was just up watching a documentary on RUF which showcased a professional driver on the Nordeschlife in the CTR "Yellowbird" (a very popular video on the internet) as well as a modern rendition of the same event in the RTurbo. In high def DVD, the images are startling, when one tries to really grasp what it is like to drive on the Nurburgring...

    I've never driven on the Nordeschlife, so I clearly have much less agency than you do on the matter AUM, as you purport, but just based upon my observation/what I read (and what I've seen): control of your car on a heavily uneven pavment structure is paramount.

    For those who would be unfamiliar on a circuit like this (which completely contrasts a smooth circuit such as Hockenheim or Monza, where finding the proper line can be as simple as prepping with a map and doing a few practice laps), control of the car via two hands would be, in my humble opinion, a great aide.

    For this reason, I tend to agree with RC on his tip 99% quotient if sheer performance is what you're going for (as stated through the grounds of this basic argument).

    Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

    Track knowledge is absolutely vital to the NBR. This can only be gained by driving lots of fast laps (videos cannot capture the driving experience adequately). Even professional drivers require many laps to learn the NBR roller-coaster before they can achieve the lap times you see posted. The first 20 or 30 laps may be easier with a Tip to allow you to focus on learning the track and not be caught in the wrong gear.After you know the track well, however, it is simple to set the car up in the right gear before corners; gear changes do not occur as frequently as on shorter two-dimensional tracks. Tip is easier for some drivers on unfamiliar twist roads but, for the average spirited driver, the manual LSD offers more traction and stability on any track or twisty back road. Consequently manual LSD lap times will be faster as your skill level improves with practise. Plus you will have a lot more fun and satisfaction in developing your skills. Your opinion is likely to change after you have learned the track.:) BTW, I am not a manual diehard. I would certainly consider a two-pedal PDK if traction, stability and control were equal or superior to manual. The problem with Tip is that it compromises these essential track qualities.

    Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

    Couldn't agree more AUM

    Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

    Very well said AUM!

    Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

    Well said!

    Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

    AUM I am with you...

    Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    No doubt that Walter or HsV will turn in superior times with the manual over the tip on the track...on a dry track.

    But on a wet track, the network and the tips integration with the various sensors that allow it to redistrubute power in real time to optimize traction and eliminate wheel slip will prove to be superior.
    ...
    So try to keep in mind that the LSD on the manual car is only for the rear, while the Tip car goes one step beyond and automatically compensates for and instantly redistributes power wheel by wheel when sensing reduced traction at any of the four wheels. Simple, they cannot
    integate the mechanical LSD with the network.




    Your line of argument has a serious flaw: Why should the Tip networking be superior on a wet track only?

    If your claim was correct Tip should also be faster on a dry track. If it is not your theory is probably not quite correct

     
    Edit

    Forum

    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II) 3/28/24 3:21 AM
    watt
    688371 1780
    Porsche Sticky Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos) 2/19/24 11:51 PM
    Wonderbar
    408639 564
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Cayman GT4 RS (2021) 5/12/23 12:11 PM
    W8MM
    255490 288
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022 3/12/24 8:28 AM
    DJM48
    234736 323
    Porsche Sticky The new Macan: the first all-electric SUV from Porsche 1/30/24 9:18 AM
    RCA
    65363 45
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Taycan 2024 Facelift 3/15/24 1:23 PM
    CGX car nut
    4634 50
    Porsche The moment I've been waiting for... 2/1/24 7:01 PM
    Pilot
     
     
     
     
     
    857517 1364
    Porsche 992 GT3 7/23/23 7:01 PM
    Grant
    773259 3868
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020) 4/6/23 7:43 AM
    crayphile
    447580 1276
    Porsche Welcome to the new Taycan Forum! 2/10/24 4:43 PM
    nberry
    378561 1526
    Porsche GT4RS 2/22/24 5:16 AM
    tso
    365308 1424
    Porsche Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design 7/3/23 12:30 PM
    Porker
    360530 797
    Others Tesla 2 the new thread 12/13/23 2:48 PM
    CGX car nut
    354429 2401
    Lambo Aventador and SV 3/30/23 1:59 PM
    CGX car nut
    278832 724
    Ferrari Ferrari 812 Superfast 4/21/23 8:09 AM
    the-missile
    275192 550
    Porsche Red Nipples 991.2 GT3 Touring on tour 3/14/24 8:55 PM
    blueflame
    272290 658
    Porsche Collected my 997 GTS today 10/19/23 7:06 PM
    CGX car nut
     
     
     
     
     
    248109 812
    Lambo Huracán EVO STO 7/30/23 6:59 PM
    mcdelaug
    224877 346
    Others Corvette C8 10/16/23 3:24 PM
    Enmanuel
    217797 488
    Lotus Lotus Emira 6/25/23 2:53 PM
    Enmanuel
    196425 101
    Others Gordon Murray - T.50 11/22/23 10:27 AM
    mcdelaug
    155176 387
    Porsche Back to basics - 996 GT3 RS 6/11/23 5:13 PM
    CGX car nut
    126752 144
    Ferrari [2022] Ferrari Purosangue (SUV) 4/15/23 5:20 AM
    watt
    120354 141
    BMW M 2024 BMW M3 CS Official Now 12/29/23 9:04 AM
    RCA
    105848 303
    Motor Sp. 2023 Formula One 12/19/23 5:38 AM
    WhoopsyM
    102457 685
    Others Valkyrie final design? 4/28/23 2:45 AM
    Rossi
    97623 219
    Porsche 2022 992 Safari Model 3/7/24 4:22 PM
    WhoopsyM
    81011 239
    AMG Mercedes-Benz W124 500E aka Porsche typ 2758 2/23/24 10:03 PM
    blueflame
    74328 297
    Porsche 992 GT3 RS 3/3/24 7:22 PM
    WhoopsyM
    52090 314
    Motor Sp. Porsche 963 3/16/24 9:27 PM
    WhoopsyM
    23079 237
    133 items found, displaying 1 to 30.