Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again) - Page1

Jun 27, 2006 7:44:25 AM

KresoF1: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Croatia , Croatia; Posts: 7856, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 3, 2005; Reply to: RC

Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

I understand you pretty good. You have pretty unique opinion, I must say. OK, you are(or become?) "DIE HARD PORSCHE TIP FAN" or "Dark Lord of TIP". So, all other people who choose manual are ignorant morons?!
And you claim that the best sporscar currently on the market is the one with automatic gearbox?
OK. That's your opinion... I like both versions but, manual(with LSD) is more true driver's car for ME!
Hopefully you will organize rennteam meeting in autum this year so we can discuss(and drive) this thing furhter...
Enjoy your car and drive safely!
Kreso

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Jun 27, 2006 7:50:39 AM

ALDO: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany, Black Forrest , Germany; Posts: 3072, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 2, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

Quote:
RC said:
Quote:
trip said:
RC even if you are faster than him around some turns that really doesn't prove anything other than the fact that your a better driver. LSD has its advantages, ask any race car driver. Even the magical PTM can benefit from LSD or else Porsche would not offer it and it would not have shaved a couple seconds off the ring time.

"Ask any race car driver..." This is exactly what I meant, most drivers won't ever profit from it, thanks for proving my point. And Porsche offers the LSD on the manual, simply because the manual is not THAT networked like the Tiptronic and manual profits from LSD (besides the technical issue of offering LSD on Tip cars). Tough audience. Why don't you guys read the technical manual of the 997 Turbo (it has been uploaded and posted a while ago), this isn't only marketing talk but well explained fundemental technical information. I should finish that 997 Turbo FAQ I started...

It doesn't make sense to produce a networked and a not networked PTM. Porsche and also any other good lead manufacturer wouldn't do this.

For the startup procedure the Tip and the PTM could communicate better and the Tip could choose automatically the right gear. Of course also a normal driver could choose the right gear. What the Tip is missing is something like a curve vision and prediction system which a driver has in his brain and eyes.

RC don't raise the Turbo Tip to the most shining star. I am seriously considering this car, but I don't see 20% of what you see and believe me I am not blind, just more realistic.

The LSD helps each one, to some more to some less.

AM

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Jun 27, 2006 7:53:27 AM

bluelines: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Argovia , Switzerland; Posts: 11655, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 29, 2005; Reply to: RC

Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

Quote:
RC said:
Quote:
bluelines said:
A manual/LSD equipped car has improved traction over Tiptronic, period. This improvement is not only useful on a race track, but also on snow, ice, etc. You don't have to be a Walter to benefit from a LSD, don't understand where this statement comes from RC?

Maybe you just don't understand the new technology?
Maybe the Formula One would be a good example to start: have you ever wondered why electronic traction systems are forbidden? The emphasis lies on electronic.

There is no "pure" driving anymore, cars are influenced more and more by electronics which not only help to drive safer but also to drive faster, depending on the setup and the willingness of the engineers to allow more or less intrusion and limitations of such systems.

But if you guys know better, thats fine with me. But don't say I didn't tell you when a car with Tiptronic makes you "nass" like we say here.

Maybe I don't...

But the question was not wether the electronic traction system improved the handling or not... obviously it does. The question was if the electronic traction system in combination with a LSD is superior to the same electronic traction system without LSD.

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Jun 27, 2006 7:54:32 AM

ALDO: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany, Black Forrest , Germany; Posts: 3072, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 2, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

Quote:
RC said:
Quote:
KresoF1 said:
When Sport Auto will publish Nordschleife and Hockenheim times for both TIP and manual(with LSD) version discussion about LSD will become more interesting... Sport Auto will have manual with LSD, PCCBs and Sport tires for Supertest. But, they already measured both versions...
What will be your comments why is manual(LSD) faster on both tracks then TIP? I guess von Saurma is not in your league when driving TIP version?

You don't understand (again). I always said that NON-professional drivers profit from the TIP setup more than from manual with LSD. Seems I should really brush up my English. Again: LSD does NOT make somebody a better driver, it just allows to squeeze out the last possible amount of traction to gain a second or so on the Nordschleife. And we're talking about a track of more than 20 km length. And yes, I really think that Horst v. Saurma is NOT used to TIP, simply because it requires adaptation. He may learn fast and adapt fast but one round with Tip wouldn't be enough because it requires a change of throttle/braking operation.

But I apologize, I didn't know that half of us here are v. Saurmas and the other half Walter Röhrls.

LSD don't make you a better driver and Tip make you a much better driver??????

AM

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Jun 27, 2006 7:55:18 AM

JimFlat6: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cave , United States; Posts: 8633, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2004; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

No doubt that Walter or HsV will turn in superior times with the manual over the tip on the track...on a dry track.

But on a wet track, the network and the tips integration with the various sensors that allow it to redistrubute power in real time to optimize traction and eliminate wheel slip will prove to be superior.

And in the hands of a amateur driver, the tip is probably faster than the manual at the Ring dry or wet. So you see it has its reasons and capabilities, like it or not neither Porsche and RC are pulling your leg about this.

Maybe if you had more experience at driving 120% fast over slippery surfaces like dirt, gravel and snow the network Tip would be apparently logical to you.

So try to keep in mind that the LSD on the manual car is only for the rear, while the Tip car goes one step beyond and automatically compensates for and instantly redistributes power wheel by wheel when sensing reduced traction at any of the four wheels. Simple, they cannot
integate the mechanical LSD with the network.

A similar system was banned in F1, well now you can have that but you have to give up the clutch pedal to get the complete benefit from it.

You should really crawl on your knees to thank the ex rally driver who has been explaining this simple concept to you all over and over again.

It is really easy to understand.

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Jun 27, 2006 8:00:45 AM

KresoF1: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Croatia , Croatia; Posts: 7856, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 3, 2005; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

TIP is if not "POWER Torqued" slower in start then F430F1 Spider and this is the fact. When you will have a chance to drive both versions of 997 Turbo or F430 please report your findings. Otherwise, you just repeat claims from Porsche marketing...

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Jun 27, 2006 8:06:17 AM

Nick_Athens: Senior; Loc: Greece , Greece; Posts: 710, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 23, 2004; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

Quote:
KresoF1 said:
I understand you pretty good. You have pretty unique opinion, I must say. OK, you are(or become?) "DIE HARD PORSCHE TIP FAN" or "Dark Lord of TIP". So, all other people who choose manual are ignorant morons?!
And you claim that the best sporscar currently on the market is the one with automatic gearbox?
OK. That's your opinion... I like both versions but, manual(with LSD) is more true driver's car for ME!
Hopefully you will organize rennteam meeting in autum this year so we can discuss(and drive) this thing furhter...
Enjoy your car and drive safely!
Kreso

I agree with you!

With Rc's way of thinking all these years Porsche with CGT -GT2 - GT3 wasnt doing a great job as it was producing cars for racing drivers only...
Also all sports car (Lambo - Ferrari - Buggati - Pagani etc) are not for people, but for racing drivers only.
So as we are not racing drivers, why should we buy a 997tt and not a simple boxster or a cayman. in order to be even more safe or a HAMMER H1... Or even hire a racing driver not only to change the gears for us (Tip Version) but to drive our cars as well...
What about the Fun though?!

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Jun 27, 2006 8:07:05 AM

JimFlat6: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cave , United States; Posts: 8633, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2004; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

Kreso, imagine if the F430 was AWD and had E diff at both ends. The Porsche system mimics that to some extent with the Tip.

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Jun 27, 2006 8:09:12 AM

bluelines: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Argovia , Switzerland; Posts: 11655, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 29, 2005; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
...the Tip car goes one step beyond and automatically compensates for and instantly redistributes power wheel by wheel when sensing reduced traction at any of the four wheels. Simple!

The redistribution, wheel by wheel, is done by the PTM in manual equipped cars as well. This is not unique to Tiptronic equipped cars.

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Jun 27, 2006 8:20:59 AM

JimFlat6: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cave , United States; Posts: 8633, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2004; Reply to: bluelines

Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

Quote:
bluelines said:
Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
...the Tip car goes one step beyond and automatically compensates for and instantly redistributes power wheel by wheel when sensing reduced traction at any of the four wheels. Simple!

The redistribution, wheel by wheel, is done by the PTM in manual equipped cars as well. This is not unique to Tiptronic equipped cars.

That ,ay be partially true, but the network is likely more effective without the mechanical LSD and with it also working in concert with the Tiptronic gearbox.

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Jun 27, 2006 8:32:13 AM

KresoF1: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Croatia , Croatia; Posts: 7856, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 3, 2005; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

There is also a clear statement and schematics on page 34 of Porsche 997 Turbo Info Guide PDF that optional LSD is incorporated in Integrated network system! And on page 29 there are Porsche claims how is LSD working(within network system!) in 997 Turbo.

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Jun 27, 2006 8:44:59 AM

AUM: Veteran; Loc: Germany; Posts: 1203, Gallery; Registered on: May 2, 2006; Reply to: RC

Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

Quote:
RC said:
Quote:
AUM said:
How about inept analysis coloured by inaccurate preconceptions

And this statement comes from somebody who changes his opinion and options faster and more often than his underwear.

My opinions are developing though experience and analysis of others' experience, but like most other forum participants my opinions have little consequence or impact on others.

Professional opinion-makers have an obligation to provide accurate information and balanced, considered judgements. Hence I call RC to task (he is an opinion maker) but not other forum participants who proliferate ill-considered opinions as if they were facts.

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Jun 27, 2006 9:13:23 AM

JimFlat6: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cave , United States; Posts: 8633, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2004; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

Quote:
KresoF1 said:
There is also a clear statement and schematics on page 34 of Porsche 997 Turbo Info Guide PDF that optional LSD is incorporated in Integrated network system! And on page 29 there are Porsche claims how is LSD working(within network system!) in 997 Turbo.

Interesting yes.

But the manual trans is not, so the advantage of the fast back concept integrated with the system network is only realized with the tip that will react quicker than the manual for some braking and traction circumstances.

And all of the sensors needed to make this work will last how long?

And will never act up?

Porsche seems to have gone the last mile to make a short wheelbase and nearly 500hp and heavy car be somewhat safe
and perform well.

Whatever version you like it has layer upon layer of ABC
helpers to make a now dubious design reasonably effective and safe. Success for that yes. Ultimate driving pleasure,
probably not.

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Jun 27, 2006 9:50:02 AM

ALDO: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany, Black Forrest , Germany; Posts: 3072, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 2, 2003; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Kreso, imagine if the F430 was AWD and had E diff at both ends. The Porsche system mimics that to some extent with the Tip.

But why only with Tip? Imagine the same system with manual and LSD! That is the point!

If PTM and Tip are very good, PTM and LSD would be even a little better.

AM

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Jun 27, 2006 9:54:47 AM

Nick_Athens: Senior; Loc: Greece , Greece; Posts: 710, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 23, 2004; Reply to: ALDO

Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

Quote:
mumbasic said:
Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Kreso, imagine if the F430 was AWD and had E diff at both ends. The Porsche system mimics that to some extent with the Tip.

But why only with Tip? Imagine the same system with manual and LSD! That is the point!

If PTM and Tip are very good, PTM and LSD would be even a little better.

AM

I agree with you, bur RC has a different opinion..

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Jun 27, 2006 10:05:19 AM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: AUM

Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

Quote:
AUM said:
Quote:
RC said:
Quote:
AUM said:
How about inept analysis coloured by inaccurate preconceptions

And this statement comes from somebody who changes his opinion and options faster and more often than his underwear.

My opinions are developing though experience and analysis of others' experience, but like most other forum participants my opinions have little consequence or impact on others.

Professional opinion-makers have an obligation to provide accurate information and balanced, considered judgements. Hence I call RC to task (he is an opinion maker) but not other forum participants who proliferate ill-considered opinions as if they were facts.

RC, call me an inept analyst if you will, but I believe AUM was defending your side of the argument. Don't over-react as you really have nothing to prove to anyone and I myself have learned long ago that educating people who have a different viewpoint to yours is impossible. So just relax, enjoy your Turbo and let actions speak louder than words

.

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Jun 27, 2006 10:35:27 AM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59581, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: ALDO

Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

Guys, again (as far as I know, some of you are in the IT business, so it shouldn't be too hard to understand):

1. Manual: the driver shifts
2. Tiptronic (auto mode): the computer shifts

I know that there are some attempts to connect the human brain to a computer network and there has been some progress doing that. But I'm afraid Porsche isn't that far yet, so ONLY the Tiptronic really benefits from the networked design, not the manual.

Oh boy...

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Jun 27, 2006 10:42:35 AM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59581, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: AUM

Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

Quote:
AUM said:
My opinions are developing though experience and analysis of others' experience, but like most other forum participants my opinions have little consequence or impact on others.

Experience? You don't even have a 997 Turbo.

Do you think we're running Rennteam just to blow some hot air? We had this crap several years with other car forums, no need to repeat that again.

It seems some people are in complete denial and even if I have some understanding for this, I slowly get annoyed.

You don't like what I say, fine. But PROVE it and don't say you heard this and that, bla bla bla.
So whenever you get your car, we can meet on the track, on the street, whereever you want. And I can PROVE to you what I'm saying and not by showing off how good or bad I'm driving but showing you the capabilities of a Tip equipped car and how easy it is to control. Deal?

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Jun 27, 2006 10:51:47 AM

dhayek: Rennteam Master; Loc: Beirut , Lebanon; Posts: 3839, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 7, 2004; Reply to: RC

Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

this is a never ending story... tip vs manual...i would go for the tip , thats my conviction; i also believe that on the day to day driving ,stop and go,traffic light etc the tip will always be faster.
kreso ,why do u say the f430 spyder is faster than tt tip? where did you get that data from? i just remind you that the 430 spyder couldnt keep up with christian's CAYENNE TT ( same power than tt + 1000kg and double cx)

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Jun 27, 2006 11:00:07 AM

Nick_Athens: Senior; Loc: Greece , Greece; Posts: 710, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 23, 2004; Reply to: dhayek

Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

Quote:
dhayek said:
this is a never ending story... tip vs manual...i would go for the tip , thats my conviction; i also believe that on the day to day driving ,stop and go,traffic light etc the tip will always be faster.
kreso ,why do u say the f430 spyder is faster than tt tip? where did you get that data from? i just remind you that the 430 spyder couldnt keep up with christian's CAYENNE TT ( same power than tt + 1000kg and double cx)

F430 spider is not faster than a 997tt in my opinion..
But my 997s Which is terrible slow compared to my F430 passes all the cayennes turbo..
So i can bet anything you want that my F430 will pass all Cayenne Turbo S "trucks" easily..

Dont tell me now that cayenne Turbo S is an other Super Automatic Sport car for all kind of drivers because i will never post again in this forum..

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Jun 27, 2006 11:06:09 AM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: Nick_Athens

Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

Quote:
Nick_Athens said:
Dont tell me now that cayenne Turbo S is an other Super Automatic Sport car for all kind of drivers because i will never post again in this forum..

The Cayenne Turbo S is a super automatic sports car, suitable for all kinds of drivers. Bye-bye

!

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Jun 27, 2006 11:07:45 AM

KresoF1: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Croatia , Croatia; Posts: 7856, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 3, 2005; Reply to: dhayek

Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

Dimitri, first I drove my F430F1 Spider against owner of new 997 Turbo TIP this weekend. TIP is slower then F430 in start if you do not use "Power-torque" procedure on 997 Turbo TIP. I DID NOT use LC on my car... We also had a chance to drive 997 Turbo manual with LSD and my claims are my personal experience.
Do you really belive that F430 Spider is slower then CT power kit? Come on! My brother owns same power kit CT as Christian and this car is SLOWER then F430. Maybe Christian's CT is with 600hp? Who knows?! Or maybe CR let him win!
I am waiting rennteam meeting somewhere in Germany in September(hopefully!). Then we will have a chance to discuss and prove something to each other...
BTW, I do not understand why did you buy a Gallardo with manual? New e.gear is better then old or are you also "DIE HARD TIP FAN"?

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Jun 27, 2006 11:08:11 AM

Rossi: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Home , Germany; Posts: 12680, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: Nick_Athens

Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

Quote:
Nick_Athens said:
Quote:
dhayek said:
this is a never ending story... tip vs manual...i would go for the tip , thats my conviction; i also believe that on the day to day driving ,stop and go,traffic light etc the tip will always be faster.
kreso ,why do u say the f430 spyder is faster than tt tip? where did you get that data from? i just remind you that the 430 spyder couldnt keep up with christian's CAYENNE TT ( same power than tt + 1000kg and double cx)

F430 spider is not faster than a 997tt in my opinion..
But my 997s Which is terrible slow compared to my F430 passes all the cayennes turbo..
So i can bet anything you want that my F430 will pass all Cayenne Turbo S "trucks" easily..
Dont tell me now that cayenne Turbo S is an other Super Automatic Sport car for all kind of drivers because i will never post again in this forum..

No, no, but the Cayenne Turbo S in the hands of some special drivers will absolutely demolish the CGT, the Enzo and the Veyron...

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Jun 27, 2006 11:20:59 AM

zzboba: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Germany; Posts: 3115, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 8, 2002; Reply to: Rossi

Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

Quote:
No, no, but the Cayenne Turbo S in the hands of some special drivers will absolutely demolish the CGT, the Enzo and the Veyron..

Not to mention that it will actually GAIN fuel while thrashing these cars!

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Jun 27, 2006 11:31:19 AM

ALDO: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany, Black Forrest , Germany; Posts: 3072, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 2, 2003; Reply to: zzboba

Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

Quote:
zzboba said:

Quote:
No, no, but the Cayenne Turbo S in the hands of some special drivers will absolutely demolish the CGT, the Enzo and the Veyron..

Not to mention that it will actually GAIN fuel while thrashing these cars!

You mean by driving the car you gain energy. It is the solution for all our energy problems

AM

PS. are you saturday in Kalrsruhe?

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Jun 27, 2006 11:48:32 AM

dhayek: Rennteam Master; Loc: Beirut , Lebanon; Posts: 3839, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 7, 2004; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

Quote:
KresoF1 said:
Dimitri, first I drove my F430F1 Spider against owner of new 997 Turbo TIP this weekend. TIP is slower then F430 in start if you do not use "Power-torque" procedure on 997 Turbo TIP. I DID NOT use LC on my car... We also had a chance to drive 997 Turbo manual with LSD and my claims are my personal experience.
Do you really belive that F430 Spider is slower then CT power kit? Come on! My brother owns same power kit CT as Christian and this car is SLOWER then F430. Maybe Christian's CT is with 600hp? Who knows?! Or maybe CR let him win!
I am waiting rennteam meeting somewhere in Germany in September(hopefully!). Then we will have a chance to discuss and prove something to each other...
BTW, I do not understand why did you buy a Gallardo with manual? New e.gear is better then old or are you also "DIE HARD TIP FAN"?

kreso , actually i am the fan of : the best. meaning on a ferrari ,i am a fan of the f1 because its better,on the G i am a fan of manual ,also because its better , and on the 997tt i am a fan of tip because also i find it better.
as for the CT story , it has been told by christian ,that i personally believe, i know he is not the "i am always the best" type , so i believe him ,and the 430 spyder was driven by CR , also a moderator on this forum . i am surprised as much as you are of the outcome ,and i dont know how many hp the CT . thats the story ,you believe it or you dont..

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Jun 27, 2006 11:52:23 AM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59581, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Rossi

Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

Quote:
Rossi said:
No, no, but the Cayenne Turbo S in the hands of some special drivers will absolutely demolish the CGT, the Enzo and the Veyron...

Stefan...Saturday. If you're not coming, I'll tell everybody that Ferrari drivers are LAME.

Shootout Sunday after brunch, can't wait to "eat" some Ferraris and Vettes for breakfast...oops, lunch.

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Jun 27, 2006 11:54:06 AM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: dhayek

Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

Quote:
dhayek said:
Quote:
KresoF1 said:
Dimitri, first I drove my F430F1 Spider against owner of new 997 Turbo TIP this weekend. TIP is slower then F430 in start if you do not use "Power-torque" procedure on 997 Turbo TIP. I DID NOT use LC on my car... We also had a chance to drive 997 Turbo manual with LSD and my claims are my personal experience.
Do you really belive that F430 Spider is slower then CT power kit? Come on! My brother owns same power kit CT as Christian and this car is SLOWER then F430. Maybe Christian's CT is with 600hp? Who knows?! Or maybe CR let him win!
I am waiting rennteam meeting somewhere in Germany in September(hopefully!). Then we will have a chance to discuss and prove something to each other...
BTW, I do not understand why did you buy a Gallardo with manual? New e.gear is better then old or are you also "DIE HARD TIP FAN"?

kreso , actually i am the fan of : the best. meaning on a ferrari ,i am a fan of the f1 because its better,on the G i am a fan of manual ,also because its better , and on the 997tt i am a fan of tip because also i find it better.
as for the CT story , it has been told by christian ,that i personally believe, i know he is not the "i am always the best" type , so i believe him ,and the 430 spyder was driven by CR , also a moderator on this forum . i am surprised as much as you are of the outcome ,and i dont know how many hp the CT . thats the story ,you believe it or you dont..

I believe Christian. I don't think anyone has considered the possibility that his Cayenne wasn't fitted with only 520 horsepower, but perhaps with much more.

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Jun 27, 2006 11:56:35 AM

Rossi: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Home , Germany; Posts: 12680, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

Quote:
RC said:
Quote:
Rossi said:
No, no, but the Cayenne Turbo S in the hands of some special drivers will absolutely demolish the CGT, the Enzo and the Veyron...

Stefan...Saturday. If you're not coming, I'll tell everybody that Ferrari drivers are LAME.
Shootout Sunday after brunch, can't wait to "eat" some Ferraris and Vettes for breakfast...oops, lunch.

Tell anybody whatever you want, I guess after all what's been posted nobody will believe you anyway.

BTW, no time at the weekend, I'm sorry.

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Jun 27, 2006 11:57:37 AM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59581, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: dhayek

Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

Quote:
dhayek said:

as for the CT story , it has been told by christian ,that i personally believe, i know he is not the "i am always the best" type , so i believe him ,and the 430 spyder was driven by CR , also a moderator on this forum . i am surprised as much as you are of the outcome ,and i dont know how many hp the CT . thats the story ,you believe it or you dont..

Dimitri, we're having a Rennteam Party on Saturday, incl. a short shootout on Sunday if the weather permits. At least we'll know for sure which car(s) will be faster. One thing I already know, the Turbo with manual is slowlier than my car, we tested it last weekend (apparently some Users like to overlook some of my posts and just pick what is convenient to their beliefs

). There will be a 996 GT2 MkII too for comparison, the mentioned F430 Spider (CR), the Corvette Z06 and other nice cars. Since my car is still new, I will not put too much importance into the results. But if the Vette/F430 are several car lengths ahead during the "shootout", then I will pay respect to them and acknowledge that I was wrong. But I have a little feeling that this ain't going to happen.

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Porsche	The new Macan: the first all-electric SUV from Porsche	1/30/24 9:18 AM RC	82689	45
Porsche	OFFICIAL: Taycan 2024 Facelift	3/15/24 1:23 PM CGX car nut	5329	50
Porsche	The moment I've been waiting for...	2/1/24 7:01 PM Pilot	877014	1364
Porsche	992 GT3	7/23/23 7:01 PM Grant	809112	3868
Porsche	Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!	2/10/24 4:43 PM nberry	388186	1526
Porsche	GT4RS	4/17/24 8:53 PM Gauss	386139	1452
Others	Tesla 2 the new thread	12/13/23 2:48 PM CGX car nut	369185	2401
Porsche	Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design	7/3/23 12:30 PM Porker	366968	797
Ferrari	Ferrari 812 Superfast	4/21/23 8:09 AM the-missile	290225	550
Porsche	Red Nipples 991.2 GT3 Touring on tour	4/11/24 12:32 PM Ferdie	286673	668
Porsche	Collected my 997 GTS today	10/19/23 7:06 PM CGX car nut	259325	812
Lambo	Huracán EVO STO	7/30/23 6:59 PM mcdelaug	237731	346
Lotus	Lotus Emira	6/25/23 2:53 PM Enmanuel	225802	101
Others	Corvette C8	10/16/23 3:24 PM Enmanuel	220262	488
Others	Gordon Murray - T.50	11/22/23 10:27 AM mcdelaug	167213	387
Porsche	Back to basics - 996 GT3 RS	6/11/23 5:13 PM CGX car nut	139137	144
BMW M	2024 BMW M3 CS Official Now	12/29/23 9:04 AM RC	115870	303
Motor Sp.	2023 Formula One	12/19/23 5:38 AM Whoopsy	107674	685
Others	Valkyrie final design?	4/28/23 2:45 AM Rossi	99358	219
Porsche	2022 992 Safari Model	3/7/24 4:22 PM Whoopsy	83665	239
AMG	Mercedes-Benz W124 500E aka Porsche typ 2758	2/23/24 10:03 PM blueflame	74912	297
Porsche	992 GT3 RS	3/3/24 7:22 PM Whoopsy	53264	314
Motor Sp.	Porsche 963	3/16/24 9:27 PM Whoopsy	24733	237
Ferrari	Ferrari 296 GTB (830PS, Hybrid V6)	1/21/24 4:29 PM GT-Boy	20976	103
BMW M	2022 BMW M5 CS	4/8/24 1:43 PM Ferdie	19247	140
AMG	G63 sold out	9/15/23 7:38 PM Nico997	16479	120

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Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

Re: 997 Turbo - clarifying my claims (again)

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