Crown

Board: Porsche - Boxster Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread


    PDK/DSG rollouts and Porsche's future direction

    Just out of curiosity, as we all know that there had been much rumours around PDK/DSG type of gearbox rollout, do most people agree that the trend is for automakers to transfer technologies?

    Well the whole VAG and this year's 2006's Porsche increasing stake in VW to 20% means that there should be significant technology transfers between the groups. In terms of R&D, this means tons of cost saving as automakers co-develop platforms each sharing expertise. This is the classical economics theory on trade as each country focuses on what they are best at. Hence, it is only a matter of time (my 2 cents) before we see the same gearbox being used across brands with a different name being slapped onto it with little tweaks.

    However, some critics and purists really go against this world phenomenon on auto-giants all coming together (Daimler-Chrysler creating the DCAG group with the Chrysler Crossfire pretty much a SLK with a different badge and look but 80% technology shared). It's all an interesting phenomenon as basically Porsche owns 20% of VW and VAG was officially finished with the introduction of the Volkswagen Group and the two brand groups (Volkswagen brand group including VW, Skoda, Bentley, etc. and Audi brand group including Audi, SEAT and Lamborghini).

    (http://www.audi.com/etc/medialib/cms4imp/audi/company/financial_information/2006/pdf.Par.0018.File.pdf

    Critics say Porsche's investment in Volkswagen signals the beginning of the end for the Porsche brand's focus and independence. I don't know if I should agree or disagree but it is a fact stemming from the basic laws of economics on trade.

    Hence I wouldn't be surprised that the lymbo will get another (x-tronic) type of gear box to replace the E gears and our beloved Porsches will soon get a DSG transferred PDK type of gearbox.

    Re: PDK/DSG rollouts and Porsche's future direction

    You forget that Porsche and VAG cooperated for a long time already. VAG is one of the main suppliers to Porsche anway. I assume that Porsche had already access to VAG technology as they liked. Both companies are not really in competition and Porsche could probably use the DSG if they wanted. But the known technical limits of VW's DSG prevented that.

    Thus, I do not see much difference for Porsche for the short term. The main argument for Porsche's investment is that they secured their supply chain from VAG. For VAG it means that they cannot be taken over by another major brand. The strange VAG share distribution and the low stock value made them very vulnerable. For the Porsche/Piech family this investment is probably also financially attractive as the low stock value of VW will probably recover in the mid future.

    On the long term it is not clear for me what it means for VW and Porsche. Will VW and Porsche align their products in the different segments? This would mainly affect the positioning of Audi. However, it seems to be clear that Porsche is moving quite fast from the small manufacturer niche to a mid volume company in the style of BMW's transition in the 70/80s.

    Re: PDK/DSG rollouts and Porsche's future direction

    I definitely agree. Considering the first beetle and Ferdinand's contribution to VW since day 1. It is very hard for small exclusive manufacturers to stay true to being small. Lymbo would be long gone if it hadn't been bought by Audi. I think the only independent limited production car manufacturer is Ferrari (is that true?). Well, it could be for the better or for the worst depending on your POV for Porsche. For those who can now afford a Porsche because of its lower pricing, this is definitely a plus. Porsche being more accessible to the general public however may be bad for those purists who insist that exclusivity is the main reason why they bought a Porsche in the first place. Hence, a delicate balance must be striked but yes, I see Porsche moving in the BMW's transition direction and same could be said about Mercedes Benz. Mercedes used to be very exclusive but nowadays it is much much more accessible.

    Re: PDK/DSG rollouts and Porsche's future direction

    Ferrari belongs to Fiat since a very long time. Porsche is quite unique as it is independent. Thus, in contrast to Ferrari Porsche needs to earn money.

    Re: PDK/DSG rollouts and Porsche's future direction

    My mistake then cos I don't follow Ferrari. Had always been a fan of Porsche. Should have read up more. Don't know much about Fiat but definitely no presence in HK. Ferrari in my mind then definitely stays true to its principle in producing exclusive cars. BTW, yah, how's business in Germany... my father and I are losing sleep every night over world cup and it is HUGE in HONG KONG and we are so looking forward to this friday's match between Argentina and Germany and I placed my bet on Germany.

    Re: PDK/DSG rollouts and Porsche's future direction

    The worldcup is currently the only thing that matters in Germany. The streets are full with fans and everyone is in a good mood. I am not a big soccer fan, but is quite nice to see that everything wents smoothly and everyone has fun.

    For Friday, I am usually pessimistic on our German team, but until now they did not play so bad. And Argentina on the other hand did not play too strong last Saturday. Thus, it might be an interesting game on Friday.

    Re: PDK/DSG rollouts and Porsche's future direction

    Quote:
    yah said:
    The worldcup is currently the only thing that matters in Germany.



    If you're a sportscar enthusiast and football fan at the same time (like me) you're facing a serious conflict of interest these days: either take your car to the absolute empty Autobahn next Friday at 5 p.m. (even better choice: 9th July if the eagles team would reach the final ) and drive it pedal to the metal or enjoy watching the match.
    I would not recommend to watch TV in your car at speeds > 250 km/h to solve this conflict

    Re: PDK/DSG rollouts and Porsche's future direction

    Quote:
    yah said:
    You forget that Porsche and VAG cooperated for a long time already.... Porsche could probably use the DSG if they wanted. But the known technical limits of VW's DSG prevented that....



    What DSG technical limits???

    Re: PDK/DSG rollouts and Porsche's future direction

    yan and Porsche-Jeck... I was for Brazil but I think it's ridiculous now and I am going for Germany. Ronaldo is getting a bit chubby for the game now probably from too much good foods and sex. Unbelievable match last night between Spain and France and Zidane really saved the team. The serious conflict when you are in HK is that you have to watch the game 3 am in the morning every morning and it affects work. Let's hope I don't total my 987s like my friend did just a month ago. He fell asleep on his wheels and ruined his 987s. Insurance took care of it and he sold it and ended up with a 997. I don't know if he should feel good or bad... certainly not a good way for a trade in but heck, who knows... it's fate I said to him.

    Re: PDK/DSG rollouts and Porsche's future direction

    Quote:
    M3Armand said:
    Quote:
    yah said:
    You forget that Porsche and VAG cooperated for a long time already.... Porsche could probably use the DSG if they wanted. But the known technical limits of VW's DSG prevented that....



    What DSG technical limits???



    The current DSG units of VAG seem not work for engines with high torque. That means, for a Boxster/Cayman it might have worked but not e.g. for the Turbo. This would need a redesign of the DSG which would have cost time and weight. But that is probably what Porsche is doing at the moment and why the Porsche DSG called PDK was not yet introduced in any of their cars.

    Re: PDK/DSG rollouts and Porsche's future direction

    Current limit for VAG DSG is 260hp/350Nm... And new more capable version is not yet on the horizont.

    Re: PDK/DSG rollouts and Porsche's future direction

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Current limit for VAG DSG is 260hp/350Nm... And new more capable version is not yet on the horizont.



    Is that really the case so DSG is only feasible on Golf GTi? What about the PDK that Porsche once owned?

    Re: PDK/DSG rollouts and Porsche's future direction

    Quote:
    ptcja said:
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Current limit for VAG DSG is 260hp/350Nm... And new more capable version is not yet on the horizont.



    Is that really the case so DSG is only feasible on Golf GTi? What about the PDK that Porsche once owned?



    The original PDK was from the mid-eighties and only designed for their racing prototypes (956). Thus, besides from the general functioning of the PDK, there is probably no real link from that area to the current PDK that Porsche is designing for their production cars.

    The only "strong" DSG from VW is the one in the Buggati Veyron. But that again is a different story, that probably cannot be translated in normal cars or, better, in cars in a slightly different price range.

    Re: PDK/DSG rollouts and Porsche's future direction

    yah I'd imagine maybe 3-5 years max for the PDK to be implemented across the board. 3 years for the TURBO than trickling down to 987 and Cayman. This ensures that Porsche stays competitive and evolutionizes its so called 3rd gen tiptronic s. If you were to ask me to bet, they already have it just that they are doing minor adjustments and working with the marketing team to see how they can best cash in on this new technology and they may simply keep the tiptronic s and go parallel making it an expensive option like the PCCB. If I were PAG I'd do it. Tiptronic S for those daily drivers and PDK who demands something different than a stick on the track.

     
    Edit

    Forum

    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II) 5/15/24 8:44 AM
    art.italy
    808685 1808
    Porsche Sticky Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos) 4/7/24 11:48 AM
    Boxster Coupe GTS
    450278 565
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022 3/12/24 8:28 AM
    DJM48
    267646 323
    Porsche Sticky The new Macan: the first all-electric SUV from Porsche 1/30/24 9:18 AM
    RCA
    90875 45
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Taycan 2024 Facelift 3/15/24 1:23 PM
    CGX car nut
    7783 50
    Porsche The moment I've been waiting for... 2/1/24 7:01 PM
    Pilot
     
     
     
     
     
    888317 1364
    Porsche 992 GT3 7/23/23 7:01 PM
    Grant
    837450 3868
    Porsche GT4RS 4/21/24 11:50 AM
    mcdelaug
    402331 1454
    Porsche Welcome to the new Taycan Forum! 2/10/24 4:43 PM
    nberry
    398469 1526
    Others Tesla 2 the new thread 12/13/23 2:48 PM
    CGX car nut
    385886 2401
    Porsche Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design 7/3/23 12:30 PM
    Porker
    372035 797
    Porsche Red Nipples 991.2 GT3 Touring on tour 5/12/24 6:23 PM
    blueflame
    294465 669
    Porsche Collected my 997 GTS today 10/19/23 7:06 PM
    CGX car nut
     
     
     
     
     
    268119 812
    Lambo Huracán EVO STO 7/30/23 6:59 PM
    mcdelaug
    244754 346
    Lotus Lotus Emira 6/25/23 2:53 PM
    Enmanuel
    239223 101
    Others Corvette C8 10/16/23 3:24 PM
    Enmanuel
    223207 488
    Others Gordon Murray - T.50 11/22/23 10:27 AM
    mcdelaug
    173753 387
    Porsche Back to basics - 996 GT3 RS 6/11/23 5:13 PM
    CGX car nut
    145509 144
    BMW M 2024 BMW M3 CS Official Now 12/29/23 9:04 AM
    RCA
    121896 303
    Motor Sp. 2023 Formula One 12/19/23 5:38 AM
    WhoopsyM
    113693 685
    Porsche 2022 992 Safari Model 3/7/24 4:22 PM
    WhoopsyM
    86389 239
    AMG Mercedes-Benz W124 500E aka Porsche typ 2758 2/23/24 10:03 PM
    blueflame
    76605 297
    Porsche 992 GT3 RS 3/3/24 7:22 PM
    WhoopsyM
    55607 314
    Motor Sp. Porsche 963 5/18/24 9:44 PM
    Wonderbar
    27499 249
    Ferrari Ferrari 296 GTB (830PS, Hybrid V6) 1/21/24 4:29 PM
    GT-Boy
    22271 103
    BMW M 2022 BMW M5 CS 4/8/24 1:43 PM
    Ferdie
    20896 140
    AMG G63 sold out 9/15/23 7:38 PM
    Nico997
    17534 120
    AMG [2022] Mercedes-AMG SL 4/23/24 1:24 PM
    RCA
    15430 225
    Porsche Porsche Mission X Hypercar 12/3/23 8:52 AM
    996FourEss
    11446 63
    Others An unassuming homologation special - 205 Rallye 5/31/23 12:23 PM
    Enmanuel
    11275 35
    120 items found, displaying 1 to 30.