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    Jun 25, 2006 11:31:13 AM

    MKSGRM
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    Reply to: MKSGRM

    Re: 997 Turbo - first short impressions

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    New 997 Turbo is more demanding for driving fast then 996 Turbo. Some people will not like that...
    BTW, Speed Yellow looks awfull!



    In this context I am asking myself: How will the new GT2 be? Hopefully, not even more demanding than the old GT2

    Hopefully, Porsche will manage to install a proper PSM. Without such PSM I can hardly see how the new GT2 could be used as a daily driver (with obvious implications for the GT2 sales figures ). A top-of-the-league PSM system will be key for the (potential) success of the 997 GT2...



    Forgot to mention that PSM (or enhanced TC) for the 997 GT2 will be the critical factor that could retain me as a Porsche customer

    Jun 25, 2006 11:58:07 AM

    Crash
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    Reply to: MKSGRM

    Re: 997 Turbo - first short impressions

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    New 997 Turbo is more demanding for driving fast then 996 Turbo. Some people will not like that...
    BTW, Speed Yellow looks awfull!



    In this context I am asking myself: How will the new GT2 be? Hopefully, not even more demanding than the old GT2

    Hopefully, Porsche will manage to install a proper PSM. Without such PSM I can hardly see how the new GT2 could be used as a daily driver (with obvious implications for the GT2 sales figures ). A top-of-the-league PSM system will be key for the (potential) success of the 997 GT2...



    Forgot to mention that PSM (or enhanced TC) for the 997 GT2 will be the critical factor that could retain me as a Porsche customer



    What about the Turbo S? With 520 horsepower, that car should be fast enough even for you .

    Jun 25, 2006 12:00:52 PM

    MKSGRM
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    Reply to: Crash

    Re: 997 Turbo - first short impressions

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    New 997 Turbo is more demanding for driving fast then 996 Turbo. Some people will not like that...
    BTW, Speed Yellow looks awfull!



    In this context I am asking myself: How will the new GT2 be? Hopefully, not even more demanding than the old GT2

    Hopefully, Porsche will manage to install a proper PSM. Without such PSM I can hardly see how the new GT2 could be used as a daily driver (with obvious implications for the GT2 sales figures ). A top-of-the-league PSM system will be key for the (potential) success of the 997 GT2...



    Forgot to mention that PSM (or enhanced TC) for the 997 GT2 will be the critical factor that could retain me as a Porsche customer



    What about the Turbo S? With 520 horsepower, that car should be fast enough even for you .



    The problem with TTS or x50 is that nobody seems to know anything about when such car would be available. Now, I will (and need) to order a replacement for my TTS early next year (the latest). That is my dilemma

    Jun 25, 2006 12:13:36 PM

    Crash
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    Reply to: MKSGRM

    Re: 997 Turbo - first short impressions

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    New 997 Turbo is more demanding for driving fast then 996 Turbo. Some people will not like that...
    BTW, Speed Yellow looks awfull!



    In this context I am asking myself: How will the new GT2 be? Hopefully, not even more demanding than the old GT2

    Hopefully, Porsche will manage to install a proper PSM. Without such PSM I can hardly see how the new GT2 could be used as a daily driver (with obvious implications for the GT2 sales figures ). A top-of-the-league PSM system will be key for the (potential) success of the 997 GT2...



    Forgot to mention that PSM (or enhanced TC) for the 997 GT2 will be the critical factor that could retain me as a Porsche customer



    What about the Turbo S? With 520 horsepower, that car should be fast enough even for you .



    The problem with TTS or x50 is that nobody seems to know anything about when such car would be available. Now, I will (and need) to order a replacement for my TTS early next year (the latest). That is my dilemma



    The X50 became available one year after the introduction of the 996TT, so I'm pretty sure you will be able to order it soon enough. If not, I guess the GT2 will be your calling.

    Jun 25, 2006 12:23:48 PM

    eclou Offline
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    Reply to: Crash

    Re: 997 Turbo - first short impressions

    Thanks RC, Kresko, and Atomic for your impressions on the tip vs manual. I have no doubt the manual/LSD is still the choice for me

    Jun 25, 2006 12:27:07 PM

    bluelines
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    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: 997 Turbo - first short impressions

    KresoF1, thanks for sharing your impressions. Was interesting to read some of the differences between manual and TIP. You confirmed what I expected

    TIP is definitely out of the equation now. Track driving a car with this power, but without LSD... no thanks

    Jun 25, 2006 12:29:28 PM

    Super DariusM
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    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: 997 Turbo - first short impressions

    Thanks Kreso..

    Jun 25, 2006 12:58:45 PM

    Bending
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    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: 997 Turbo - first short impressions

    Quote:
    Kresof2: Manual feels faster and in fact is also faster from stillstand. TIP is only really fast when you lanuch it the way described above... Other wise it starts in second gear...



    You can select first gear in stillstand via the knobs. In this way it won't start in 2nd.

    Jun 25, 2006 1:11:37 PM

    Nick_Athens Offline
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    Reply to: Bending

    Re: 997 Turbo - first short impressions

    I am afraid from what i hear that Porsche tried to take sales from Merc SL55 Aston Martin etc.. Totally different target group than older turbos... 993 Turbo S was Monster, 996 tt was a little bit more civilized and now this..
    Unfortunately Porsche did the same and to the new GT3 (Pasm and TC) and it has the same target for the next GT2.
    I was sure from the very beggining that the manual with LSD would be a much more aggresive car. (For this reason this option is for manual only)
    And for marketing reasons Made Tip faster till 200kmh.

    Finaly, I insist that Porsche (such a profitable company) did a TERRIBLE mistake,in not Investing more, and lanching the PDK Gearbox in 997tt.

    To sum up I heard from a Usa friend of mine which has many cars including CGT that 997tt is like a modified with ECU 996tt X50 car.

    Jun 25, 2006 1:57:13 PM

    Ferdie
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    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: 997 Turbo - first short impressions

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    ... 1. Turbo lag is more present on TIP then on manual. Only way to avoid this on TIP is "power torque" start.




    The AWD system is setup for maximum traction as soon as you execute the above mentioned procedure. It is a feature embedded in the car's controlbus - I am just wondering if this was introduced due to marketing reasons...

    Turbolag is evident on every turbocharged car on the market today - interesting that this couldn't be completely solved with VTG. Of course, even this system cannot do miracles and a lack of exhaust pressure obviously will still be evident. Systems to eliminate the turbolag can be found in a few professional racing series, e.g. the WRC rally cars or the Seat Supercopa racecars.

    Jun 25, 2006 3:41:02 PM

    Ron (Houston)M
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: 997 Turbo - first short impressions

    Thanks for the short review RC . Can't wait to read the detailed one .

    Enjoy the beauty in good health.

    Jun 25, 2006 4:41:37 PM

    bluelines
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    Reply to: Nick_Athens

    Re: 997 Turbo - first short impressions

    Quote:
    Nick_Athens said:
    I am afraid from what i hear that Porsche tried to take sales from Merc SL55 Aston Martin etc..



    Interesting reflection and I have a feeling you are spot on.

    Jun 25, 2006 5:16:07 PM

    Hurst
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    Reply to: bluelines

    Re: 997 Turbo - first short impressions

    Quote:
    bluelines said:
    Quote:
    Nick_Athens said:
    I am afraid from what i hear that Porsche tried to take sales from Merc SL55 Aston Martin etc..



    Interesting reflection and I have a feeling you are spot on.



    I disagree. It seems like the 997TT is far more agressive and demanding (based upon comments by RC and Kreso) than the 996 which was far more GTish. If anything, the 7 seems to be a comprimse between the 996 and the 993?

    Jun 25, 2006 5:21:41 PM

    AUM
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    Reply to: Hurst

    Re: 997 Turbo - first short impressions

    RC, thank you for confirming my doubts about the 'nervous/soft' PASM suspension. This is a major concern for me that ensures I will not buy a 997 TT. I had a less than satisfactory experience with PASM on my 997 C2S that I do not want to repeat.

    The standard 996 TT suspension is even worse than PASM (way too soft). However I am very satisfied with the H&R suspension on a track and for everyday AB and back-road use. This set-up really works well and makes the car feel rock solid and handle predictably (and fairly neutral) at the limit of the (PS2) tyres.

    Since I cannot get a 997 GT3 before winter (and I have doubts about its power deficit)I may stay with my present car until the 997 GT2 appears next spring. None of the other available cars like the F430 (too bling) or the 996 GT2 Mark 2 (no PSM) inspires me to abandon my 996 X50 at this time.

    I am even considering upgrading my car with LSD, more power, BBS lightweight magnesium wheels, racing seats, 9ff exhaust (with volume control button) and keeping it for some time. The interior is perfect, all black with no PCM clutter or silver-painted plastic.

    I am well aware that RC and conventional wisdom would advise against putting more money into a 996 Turbo now that the new model is out - but when I look hard at the available alternatives, a properly tuned 996 TT may still be the best all-round sports car on the road.

    Jun 25, 2006 5:36:32 PM

    bluelines
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    Reply to: Hurst

    Re: 997 Turbo - first short impressions

    Quote:
    Hurst said:
    Quote:
    bluelines said:
    Quote:
    Nick_Athens said:
    I am afraid from what i hear that Porsche tried to take sales from Merc SL55 Aston Martin etc..



    Interesting reflection and I have a feeling you are spot on.



    I disagree. It seems like the 997TT is far more agressive and demanding (based upon comments by RC and Kreso) than the 996 which was far more GTish. If anything, the 7 seems to be a comprimse between the 996 and the 993?





    Well, any car with 500 hp is demanding if it is pushed. There seems to be a big difference in the handling of the car TIP vs. manual with LSD. There is no question which is the GT... and this car for sure attracts the MB SL/AM customer segment.

    Jun 25, 2006 5:40:39 PM

    TT Surgeon
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    Reply to: nberry

    Re: 997 Turbo - first short impressions

    I concur with RC re the sound. Last week I got the chance to test drive a midnight blue 6speed launch car, awsome machine, but sounds like crap, that HAS to be changed! I swore I wouldn't mod my new TT, but that exhaust has to go, makes my stock C4S exhaust sound like a cup car.
    I'd also recommend the ssk option, the one I drove didn't have it and felt loose/sloppy compared to my C4S with oem ssk.

    Jun 25, 2006 5:58:59 PM

    BiTurbo
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    Reply to: TT Surgeon

    Re: 997 Turbo - first short impressions

    I'm not trying to [censored] off anyone here, but if some of you know there's such thing as lag, then why do you want a turbocharged Porsche ?

    Lag is overrated on P cars, try driving a Supra with a big fat single turbo and you'll crawl back bowing down for Porsche.

    3 options:
    GT3
    CS/C4S with power kit (if you can't drive a manual)
    Ferrari F430 / Lambo G

    End of story.

    Jun 25, 2006 6:05:42 PM

    Flyer..
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    Re: 997 Turbo - first short impressions

    'cause for some people Porsche is a passion...

    Jun 25, 2006 6:19:48 PM

    Hurst
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    Reply to: bluelines

    Re: 997 Turbo - first short impressions

    Quote:
    bluelines said:
    Quote:
    Hurst said:
    Quote:
    bluelines said:
    Quote:
    Nick_Athens said:
    I am afraid from what i hear that Porsche tried to take sales from Merc SL55 Aston Martin etc..



    Interesting reflection and I have a feeling you are spot on.



    I disagree. It seems like the 997TT is far more agressive and demanding (based upon comments by RC and Kreso) than the 996 which was far more GTish. If anything, the 7 seems to be a comprimse between the 996 and the 993?





    Well, any car with 500 hp is demanding if it is pushed. There seems to be a big difference in the handling of the car TIP vs. manual with LSD. There is no question which is the GT... and this car for sure attracts the MB SL/AM customer segment.



    I agree with that. The Tip is more GTish (albeit with technological advancements like fastback downshifting that help in short track racing such as Hockenheim).

    The manual with lsd seems fairly sporty though. Can't wait for more details

    Jun 25, 2006 6:22:27 PM

    devo
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    Reply to: BiTurbo

    Re: 997 Turbo - first short impressions

    Picked up my 997tt yesterday. Yes, the exhaust is quieter than my 997S, but it does have some throat to it. More of a refined, smooth powerful sound. Of course I hope Porsche comes out with PSE.
    Other than that, I feel the car is awesome. Someone else likened it to having serious closing speed or slingshot power. I feel that's very accurate. It is seriously fast. Absolutely, excellent low end power with minimal lag.
    Handling is tight and the car feels light and flickable. High speed corners are like a fast train on rails.
    I'm breaking mine in according to the manual, so I won't know how full throttle or anything above 4200 rpms feels like, but partial throtle below 4200 is awesome.
    Porsche did a great job of refining the interior over my previous car: 997S. Just a better feel to the controls. Whether intentional or not my cabin is resonance free when the roof is open and the windows closed, unlike my 997 which drove me crazy.
    I think that the normal suspension mode is more firm and the sport mode is adequately stiff but not brutal. My 997S was too soft and too hard.
    Lastly looks: Unbelievable; bikers, hotties little old ladies, everyone stops to look. Aside from the onlookers, I think it looks beautiful. For me every angle is impressive, including the wheels.

    Jun 25, 2006 6:44:48 PM

    LoranTw
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    Reply to: Flyer..

    Re: 997 Turbo - first short impressions

    Quote:
    Flyer.. said:
    'cause for some people Porsche is a passion...


    Cheers

    Jun 25, 2006 7:20:54 PM

    trip
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    Reply to: devo

    Re: 997 Turbo - first short impressions

    Quote:
    devo said:
    Picked up my 997tt yesterday. Yes, the exhaust is quieter than my 997S, but it does have some throat to it. More of a refined, smooth powerful sound. Of course I hope Porsche comes out with PSE.
    Other than that, I feel the car is awesome. Someone else likened it to having serious closing speed or slingshot power. I feel that's very accurate. It is seriously fast. Absolutely, excellent low end power with minimal lag.
    Handling is tight and the car feels light and flickable. High speed corners are like a fast train on rails.
    I'm breaking mine in according to the manual, so I won't know how full throttle or anything above 4200 rpms feels like, but partial throtle below 4200 is awesome.
    Porsche did a great job of refining the interior over my previous car: 997S. Just a better feel to the controls. Whether intentional or not my cabin is resonance free when the roof is open and the windows closed, unlike my 997 which drove me crazy.
    I think that the normal suspension mode is more firm and the sport mode is adequately stiff but not brutal. My 997S was too soft and too hard.
    Lastly looks: Unbelievable; bikers, hotties little old ladies, everyone stops to look. Aside from the onlookers, I think it looks beautiful. For me every angle is impressive, including the wheels.


    Thanks for the short review, seems to confirm what others (except for RC) have said about PASM. By the way, did you order LSD/PCCB?

    Jun 25, 2006 10:59:38 PM

    rubaga
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    Reply to: trip

    Re: 997 Turbo - first short impressions

    We had Porsche World Tour today and they had TT on show. We were not allowed to drive but given I have one on order I was permitted to do 2 circles of slalom. Its was not a race track but rather a huge parking lot with a slalom track done with cones. Before I was driving the same track on carrera 4s.

    First of all I liked TT with tip a lot. For everyday (not tracks) it would seem a better option. So I am now thinking hard whether to keep my order of manual or change to Tip.

    For me manual control in Tip was completely impossible to use but having both hands on the wheel was really good.

    The car was visibly faster then 4s. It had PCCB and during these two laps I did not get used to the better braking then on a 4s with standard brakes.

    I definitely keep my order for TT - just thinking now whether to keep manual. In my country manual will have a smaller resale value. Everybody hear likes Tip.

    Just my 2 cents.

    Regards
    Ruben

    Jun 25, 2006 11:10:50 PM

    RCA
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    Reply to: rubaga

    Re: 997 Turbo - first short impressions

    Ruben, go with Tip, you can't go wrong with it. Unless you plan serious track racing. Glad you liked the car, you'll love it even more when you own it.

    Jun 25, 2006 11:18:45 PM

    trip
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    Reply to: rubaga

    Re: 997 Turbo - first short impressions

    Rubaga, get Manual with LSD, some people such as RC have commented on the Turbo's tendancy to oversteer and its nervous handling habbits, those who have driven both Tip and Manual with LSD have said how the LSD drastically improves the handling.

    Jun 25, 2006 11:49:22 PM

    devo
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    Reply to: trip

    Re: 997 Turbo - first short impressions

    Quote:
    trip said:
    Quote:
    devo said:
    Picked up my 997tt yesterday. Yes, the exhaust is quieter than my 997S, but it does have some throat to it. More of a refined, smooth powerful sound. Of course I hope Porsche comes out with PSE.
    Other than that, I feel the car is awesome. Someone else likened it to having serious closing speed or slingshot power. I feel that's very accurate. It is seriously fast. Absolutely, excellent low end power with minimal lag.
    Handling is tight and the car feels light and flickable. High speed corners are like a fast train on rails.
    I'm breaking mine in according to the manual, so I won't know how full throttle or anything above 4200 rpms feels like, but partial throtle below 4200 is awesome.
    Porsche did a great job of refining the interior over my previous car: 997S. Just a better feel to the controls. Whether intentional or not my cabin is resonance free when the roof is open and the windows closed, unlike my 997 which drove me crazy.
    I think that the normal suspension mode is more firm and the sport mode is adequately stiff but not brutal. My 997S was too soft and too hard.
    Lastly looks: Unbelievable; bikers, hotties little old ladies, everyone stops to look. Aside from the onlookers, I think it looks beautiful. For me every angle is impressive, including the wheels.


    Thanks for the short review, seems to confirm what others (except for RC) have said about PASM. By the way, did you order LSD/PCCB?

    \

    I ordered LSD and short shifter, no PCCB, and I'm NOT disappointed with the brakes. By the way, SSK is awesome, very precise; perfect short throws and well very defined gates. It's only very slightly notchy when cold as to be expected.
    As I've accumulated some miles, I believe that my exhaust note has gotten deeper. I dropped my girlfriend off at Starbucks (No I didn't see Nick there ) and when I returned she said she could hear the car coming from inside and that it had a deep, rich sound to it; different from the 997S, but in some ways better.
    Did I previously say that this car is seriously faaasst !
    It pulls like a motherf@#ker!

    Jun 26, 2006 3:13:48 AM

    TulsaTurbo
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: 997 Turbo - first short impressions

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Ruben, go with Tip, you can't go wrong with it. Unless you plan serious track racing. Glad you liked the car, you'll love it even more when you own it.



    Now, this is what I was hoping to hear you say!

    Jun 26, 2006 8:18:56 AM

    zzbobaA
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: 997 Turbo - first short impressions

    Thanks for your impressions RC! Highly interesting read!

    Quote:

    12. motorcycle riders started to greet me. First, I thought it was just a mistake but I met around 20 bikes, mostly superbikes and half of them greeted me. Seems I'm driving in a different car league now.



    hm, i wouldn't call this a "car league"

    Quote:
    Never spent that much time at a fuel station to answer questions.



    "why didn't you get a F430 or a gallardo?"

    Jun 26, 2006 2:31:18 PM

    iia
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    Reply to: zzbobaA

    Re: 997 Turbo - first short impressions

    Quote:
    zzboba said:
    Quote:
    Never spent that much time at a fuel station to answer questions.



    "why didn't you get a F430 or a gallardo?"


    Cause he just want to answer questions for the 1st year.

    Jun 26, 2006 3:24:01 PM

    FutchM
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: 997 Turbo - first short impressions

    Congratulations RC!
    The wait is finally over! Very nice car.
    Enjoy in good health man, and let us know about your weight issues, I wonder how heavy you have to be to make the sport seats squeek!!!
     
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