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    Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrill

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Crash, nothing is preventing Ferrari from building more capacity if there were so inclined. The chose not to do so to protect the brand. Porsche opted to chase profits and dump the buyer.

    nick,

    protect the brand from what?
    i figured you would say to protect the resale for the owners.
    ferrari could never compete with porsche on production numbers whether they wanted to or not.
    they have their niche and they wisely stick to what they know.
    ferrari chases profits just as hard as porsche, they just havent been as successful at obtaining them.

    jeff

    Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrilled

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Nick, not every sportscar owner wants to attract attention.

    We Germans are experts when it comes to "stealth richness".
    We are those who invented the de-badging of expensive Mercedes and BMW models. Most BMW 7-series and Mercedes S-class models are driving around without any model designation over here. This even applies to the 5-series, the E-class and other models from Audi, etc.
    My Cayenne Turbo Powerkit is the best example: in the US, people would put a "Turbo S" badge on the rear, I have...NONE.

    christian,
    i noticed in the pics they made a mistake on your new car and left "turbo" on the rear!

    jeff

    Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrilled

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Nick, not every sportscar owner wants to attract attention.



    Just like not everyone wants their car yellow or pink! I am really looking forward to the more civilized polished nature of the 997TT.

    Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrill

    Quote:
    Rossi said:

    The F430 doesn't need you to keep the flags up.




    Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrill

    Quote:
    Nick_Athens said:
    Quote:
    Rossi said:

    The F430 doesn't need you to keep the flags up.







    Nick, congrats on your 360th post. Now hurry up to 430

    Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrill

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    STRADALE: The 997 also has relatively few units made and they also sell as much as they produce. So, by your definition it would be an exotic.
    And yes, I agree about the 599. That car truly is an exotic, but not the 430.



    Not true. That's not my "definition of exotic".

    I've tried to explain my opinion on this to you a couple of times. You either don't get it, don't want to get it or perhaps I'm just not making any sense. I'm not insisting I'm right, just saying so far you've not understood my opinion.

    I'll try once more.. It has nothing to do with they "also sell as much as they produce". Every car manufacturer including GM sells as many as they produce. Whether through rebates, cuts on the msrp or whatever so that alone doesn't make the car exotic or not. But HOW the cars are sold does have something to do with it.

    As I said it has to do w/ #'s of cars produced /SUPPLY) & the DEMAND for the car (wait list) ie) the 430 is SOLD OUT through the next 2 1/2 years of production. The 997 is not sold out in addition Porsche will manufacturer many more cars than Ferrari. Matter of fact believe it or not when the successor to the 997 is near you will be able to buy a 997 turbo under sticker. Same thing happened w/ the 996 turbo. Matter of fact I purchased my turbo under sticker in 2002 only 2 years into it's production cycle. Just like the 360 Ferrari will be able to sell all US 430's at sticker and the vast majority of PRE-0WNED cars will sell for a premium. What other manufacturer's has the MAJORITY of it's cars selling for premiums in the used car market? I can't think of any. (NUMBER OF CARS/ SUPPLY/DEMAND)

    And lastly - PRICE of the car and people's PERCEPTION of what makes an exotic. (I'm not sure if you're a Porsche/Ferrari owner. The ownership experience is different).. IMO PRICE of the car adds a lot to the PERCEPTION that the car is exotic..............exotic is a subjective term so what is exotic to some may not be to other. For example even though some late 60 muscle cars can fetch HUGE $'s when someone says "exotic" that's not what I think of. I think of Ferrari(Enzo,F40,F50,599,430,CS) Aston Martin (Vanquish,DB9), Lambo (Murci,Gallardo,Diablo) Bentley, Rolls Royce, CGT's, SLR's, S7's, those kinda cars. When an auto dealer advertises being an "EXOTIC" car dealer those are the type of cars I imagine he's selling not Z06's. Doesn't mean he wont have a Z06, just that the majority of cars (that are expensive & have low production #'s) will be the above names plus a few others. (PRICE & PERCEPTION)

    IMO you're incorrect in saying the 430 isn't an exotic. It is probably one of the hardest cars in the US to buy at msrp over the rest of it's production cycle if not THE hardest. That w/ the combination of everything else I mentioned above makes the F430 (IMO) an "exotic".

    Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrill

    Stradale The same thing tried to explain to crash too. But I failed...

    Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrill

    http://www.mobile.de/SIDaUZuqGCO1ZNO3e1g...p;doSearch.y=10

    mobile.de lists 25 F430s (including a new car) all immediately available.

    Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrill

    The link doesn't work.

    Go to any Ferrari dealer in the US and if you can find a NEW F430 Coupe or Spider for MSRP that you can buy immediately, I'll buy it for you.

    Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrill

    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    The link doesn't work.

    Go to any Ferrari dealer in the US and if you can find a NEW F430 Coupe or Spider for MSRP that you can buy immediately, I'll buy it for you.



    I'll go to the Ferrari dealer here on Monday and if I can get a 430 at MSRP, will you buy it for me?

    (P.S. I'm serious, I wouldn't mind a 430 for free )

    Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrill

    Well these are used cars. Of course there are always used cars for sale. That's no news.

    Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrill

    Quote:
    Persuader said:
    Well these are used cars. Of course there are always used cars for sale. That's no news.



    Yes, they are used cars, but the prices aren't astronomical, as would be the case in the US. I'm pretty sure Nick Berry wouldn't buy a 430 if he lived in Europe.
    I can walk into a Ferrari dealership here and order a 430 to specs, which I would receive in 5-6 months. It follows from that, that these cars aren't incredibly hard to get, at least not in Europe. The US, as we all know, is a different situation altogether, but with the amount of people wanting to be seen, it doesn't really surprise me.

    Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrill

    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    The link doesn't work.

    Go to any Ferrari dealer in the US and if you can find a NEW F430 Coupe or Spider for MSRP that you can buy immediately, I'll buy it for you.



    430's artificial US scarcity isn't all that impressive IMO...

    10 yrs ago I'm told that F dealers in CA had new, red/tan 355 Spiders sitting on lots looking for a good home...

    3 yrs ago any London hedge fund guy could go to the French F dealer near his S Fr wkend house and buy a new Enzo@MSRP, since the French (among other EU mkts) couldn't unload their Enzo alloc@MSRP....

    US may be F's largest mkt, but it only represents 35% of F's global sales....

    F prob knows that even the powerful US mkt can only absorb a finite no. of $200K+ cars, esp if the resale value Ponzi scheme starts unwinding and the many cash-poor speculators/poseurs disappear....F prob doesn't want to ever become just another version of Lambo, esp in terms of sales vols/resale value/brand image/buyer base (or lack thereof)....

    Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrill

    Quote:
    VKSF said:
    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    The link doesn't work.

    Go to any Ferrari dealer in the US and if you can find a NEW F430 Coupe or Spider for MSRP that you can buy immediately, I'll buy it for you.



    430's artificial US scarcity isn't all that impressive IMO...

    10 yrs ago I'm told that F dealers in CA had new, red/tan 355 Spiders sitting on lots looking for a good home...

    3 yrs ago any London hedge fund guy could go to the French F dealer near his S Fr wkend house and buy a new [Email]Enzo@MSRP[/Email], since the French (among other EU mkts) couldn't unload their Enzo [Email]alloc@MSRP....[/Email]

    US may be F's largest mkt, but it only represents 35% of F's global sales....

    F prob knows that even the powerful US mkt can only absorb a finite no. of $200K+ cars, esp if the resale value Ponzi scheme starts unwinding and the many cash-poor speculators/poseurs disappear....F prob doesn't want to ever become just another version of Lambo, esp in terms of sales vols/resale value/brand image/buyer base (or lack thereof)....



    I always like to read your informed insight on thigs, VKSF .

    Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrill

    Guys,

    What makes a car exotic is as Stradale implies its perceived desirability and attainability, but Crash is correct also that in Europe, an F430 isn't any more exotic than is a 911Turbo. In the USA, OTOH, an F430 is.

    This is true of anything. One of my favorite coffee's is Jamaica Blue Mountain, which, in the northeast US, is exotic (and 2-3x as expensive as other gourmet coffee's-about $35.00 USD per pound of beans), but in Jamaica, both fairly cheap and consumed regularly, at least the last time I was there.

    What's more important is whether a car's perceived exotic factor is important to the buyer of the car. Some view that as the ONLY reason to buy the car, others look for performance as the overriding factor, and for many of us, it's a mixture of factors. But none of this makes one purchase over another "superior" or "smarter."

    Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrill

    Quote:
    VKSF said:
    US may be F's largest mkt, but it only represents 35% of F's global sales....




    This is precisely why F cars in the USA are perceived as more exotic than P cars, as Porsche has a relatively larger market in the USA for their worldwide sales versus Ferrari, even though the USA is the largest market versus other countries for both Ferrari and Porsche.

    But as I said above, NONE of this makes the purchase of a Porsche over a Ferrari better or worse, it all depends on one's interests.

    For me, if I lived near a Ferrari dealer, it might be worth it buy F cars along with P cars, but since I'm more than 300 miles/500 kms from one, to me it's not worth the expense and hassles. But that doesn't make me smarter or more dumb than one of my F car buddies locally.

    Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrill

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    Persuader said:
    Well these are used cars. Of course there are always used cars for sale. That's no news.


    Yes, they are used cars, but the prices aren't astronomical, as would be the case in the US. I'm pretty sure Nick Berry wouldn't buy a 430 if he lived in Europe.
    I can walk into a Ferrari dealership here and order a 430 to specs, which I would receive in 5-6 months. It follows from that, that these cars aren't incredibly hard to get, at least not in Europe. The US, as we all know, is a different situation altogether, but with the amount of people wanting to be seen, it doesn't really surprise me.


    Maybe in mainland Europe but not the UK. We have 3-4yr wait and now have to put down Pounds10000 GBP Deposit when ordering.

    Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrill

    Quote:
    Turbo Al said:
    Quote:
    VKSF said:
    US may be F's largest mkt, but it only represents 35% of F's global sales....




    This is precisely why F cars in the USA are perceived as more exotic than P cars, as Porsche has a relatively larger market in the USA for their worldwide sales versus Ferrari, even though the USA is the largest market versus other countries for both Ferrari and Porsche.

    But as I said above, NONE of this makes the purchase of a Porsche over a Ferrari better or worse, it all depends on one's interests.

    For me, if I lived near a Ferrari dealer, it might be worth it buy F cars along with P cars, but since I'm more than 300 miles/500 kms from one, to me it's not worth the expense and hassles. But that doesn't make me smarter or more dumb than one of my F car buddies locally.



    Al, I think most on rennteam tend to favor cars based on performance/driving feel attributes, rather than perception of the unwashed masses/resale value, blah blah....

    What I was getting at w/the 35% stat is that it should be viewed in context of US buys roughly 55% of global CGT, 60% of Lambos, 70% of 65s....w/$200K+ cars, US truly dominates global demand....

    Much of the appeal of any Ponzi scheme is finding another sucker to pay an absurd amt for one's used car.....if F pumped up US allocs to 50% of global produc...or 2500/yr 430s into US, many prospective 430 buyers would become worried re: resale value implics (many patiently wait for MSRP 430s so they can drive a new F every yr for free, as long as some other gullible guy is willing to pay MSRP for a used car )....and those mythical waitlists could quickly shrink and US/EU 430 resale values would prob equilibrate .....just look at US sales vols of $200K+ cars w/poor resale value (like 575, 65, Murci, GT2, Gallardo, etc)....it may be hard to sell even 1000/yr 430 into US if resale value game unwinds....

    Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrill

    Quote:
    Persuader said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    Persuader said:
    Well these are used cars. Of course there are always used cars for sale. That's no news.


    Yes, they are used cars, but the prices aren't astronomical, as would be the case in the US. I'm pretty sure Nick Berry wouldn't buy a 430 if he lived in Europe.
    I can walk into a Ferrari dealership here and order a 430 to specs, which I would receive in 5-6 months. It follows from that, that these cars aren't incredibly hard to get, at least not in Europe. The US, as we all know, is a different situation altogether, but with the amount of people wanting to be seen, it doesn't really surprise me.


    Maybe in mainland Europe but not the UK. We have 3-4yr wait and now have to put down Pounds10000 GBP Deposit when ordering.



    Just as most affluent Greenwich/NYC guys have 3-4 houses in various US states (CT, NY, FL, CA, CO, etc) and can favorably source their cars from a dealer near one of their various houses/use a broker to source their F from F of Podunk, I suspect most London hedgies have wkend houses in Fr/It/Ger, etc or can get a broker to get the car out of EU for them....for guys who play arb games for a living and whose time has a greater opportunity cost than most, the London-EU arb is quite simple, isn't it?

    Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrill

    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    The link doesn't work.

    Go to any Ferrari dealer in the US and if you can find a NEW F430 Coupe or Spider for MSRP that you can buy immediately, I'll buy it for you.




    Ferrari F430 , Sportwagen/Coupé
    EUR 169.000, MwSt. ausweisbar, VB
    I-36063 mason, EZ: 06/06, 1 km, 360 kW (489 PS), rot, Benzin, Schaltgetriebe, Klimaautomatik, Stabilitätskontrolle...


    Ferrari F430 , Sportwagen/Coupé Gebraucht

    EUR 153.900, MwSt. ausweisbar
    D-54608 Bleialf, EZ: 03/05, 9.800 km, 360 kW (489 PS), schwarz, Benzin, Schaltgetriebe, Klimaanlage, ABS, Zentralverriegelung...


    Fahrzeug parken Details ansehen
    Ferrari F430 F1 , Sportwagen/Coupé Gebraucht

    EUR 158.200
    E-29660 Marbella, EZ: 09/05, 2.301 km, 360 kW (489 PS), rosso, Benzin, Euro 4, Halbautomatik, Klimaautomatik, ABS, Stabilitätskontrolle...


    Verfügbarkeit: sofort Fahrzeug parken Details ansehen
    Ferrari F430 F1 , Sportwagen/Coupé Gebraucht

    EUR 159.000, MwSt. ausweisbar
    A-9020 Klagenfurt, EZ: 03/05, 20.000 km, 360 kW (489 PS), nero, Benzin, Schaltgetriebe, Klimaautomatik, Stabilitätskontrolle...


    Verfügbarkeit: 10.08.2006 Fahrzeug parken Details ansehen
    Ferrari 430 F1 Ceramik , Sportwagen/Coupé Gebraucht

    EUR 168.000
    D-70736 Fellbach, EZ: 11/05, 10.800 km, rot, Benzin, Automatik, Klimaautomatik, ABS, Stabilitätskontrolle...


    Fahrzeug parken Details ansehen
    Ferrari F430 F1 Super Kondition und sofort lieferbar!! , Sportwagen/Coupé Neu

    EUR 168.000, MwSt. ausweisbar (inkl. Überführung: 1500 EUR)
    D-74199 Obergruppenbach, 25 km, 360 kW (489 PS), nuerburgring-silber-mettalic-metallic, Benzin, Schaltgetriebe, Klimaautomatik, ABS, Stabilitätskontrolle...


    Fahrzeug parken Details ansehen
    Ferrari F430 F1 , Sportwagen/Coupé Gebraucht


    Fahrzeug parken Details ansehen
    Ferrari F430 F1 , Sportwagen/Coupé Gebraucht

    EUR 169.500, MwSt. ausweisbar
    D-64331 Weiterstadt, EZ: 09/05, 8.800 km, 360 kW (489 PS), rot, HU: 09/08, Benzin, Automatik, Klimaautomatik, ABS, Stabilitätskontrolle...


    Fahrzeug parken Details ansehen
    Ferrari F 430 F1*CERAMIC*1.HAND*NEUZUSTAND* , Sportwagen/Coupé Gebraucht

    EUR 169.800
    D-40668 Meerbusch, EZ: 04/05, 4.850 km, 360 kW (489 PS), rot, Benzin, Euro 4, Automatik, Klimaautomatik, Leichtmetallfelgen


    Fahrzeug parken Details ansehen
    Ferrari F430 F1 Wie Neu , Sportwagen/Coupé Gebraucht

    EUR 169.990
    D-24941 Flensburg, EZ: 03/05, 6.000 km, 360 kW (489 PS), Silverstonegrey-Metallic, Benzin, Euro 4, Automatik, Klimaautomatik, Stabilitätskontrolle...


    Fahrzeug parken Details ansehen
    Ferrari F 430 Keramik-Karbon Navi 6-Gang Absolut Voll , Sportwagen/Coupé Gebraucht

    EUR 169.998, MwSt. ausweisbar
    D-36433 Leimbach/Bad Salzungen, EZ: 05/05, 4.500 km, 357 kW (485 PS), gelb (Giallo-Modena), HU: 05/08, Benzin, Euro 3, Schaltgetriebe, Klimaautomatik, ABS, Stabilitätskontrolle...


    Fahrzeug parken Details ansehen
    Ferrari F430 F1 , Sportwagen/Coupé Gebraucht

    EUR 170.000
    D-71229 Leonberg, EZ: 02/05, 18.300 km, 360 kW (489 PS), Rosso Corsa-metallic, Benzin, Automatik, Klimaautomatik, Stabilitätskontrolle...


    Fahrzeug parken Details ansehen
    Ferrari F430 F1 , Sportwagen/Coupé Gebraucht

    EUR 172.000
    D-71229 Leonberg, EZ: 03/05, 11.800 km, 360 kW (489 PS), Rosso Corsa-metallic, Benzin, Automatik, Klimaautomatik, Stabilitätskontrolle...


    Fahrzeug parken Details ansehen
    Ferrari F430 F1 , Sportwagen/Coupé Gebraucht

    EUR 172.500
    D-28816 Stuhr/Bremen, EZ: 02/05, 9.768 km, 360 kW (489 PS), giallo modena, Benzin, Automatik, Lederausstattung, Navigationssystem


    Verfügbarkeit: sofort Fahrzeug parken Details ansehen
    Ferrari F430 F1 , Sportwagen/Coupé Gebraucht

    EUR 172.800, MwSt. ausweisbar
    A-2500 Baden, EZ: 05/05, 6.000 km, 360 kW (489 PS), schwarz, Benzin, Automatik, Klimaautomatik, Stabilitätskontrolle...


    Fahrzeug parken Details ansehen
    Ferrari F430 F1 Carbon Brake Navi Daytona Sitze Carbon , Sportwagen/Coupé Gebraucht

    EUR 173.500, MwSt. ausweisbar
    D-92318 Neumarkt, EZ: 03/05, 11.500 km, 360 kW (489 PS), rosso corsa, Benzin, Automatik, Klimaautomatik, ABS, Stabilitätskontrolle...


    Fahrzeug parken Details ansehen
    Ferrari F430 F1 , Sportwagen/Coupé Gebraucht

    EUR 173.500
    A-9020 Klagenfurt, EZ: 05/05, 5.000 km, 360 kW (489 PS), rosso corsa, Benzin, Schaltgetriebe, Klimaautomatik, Stabilitätskontrolle...


    Fahrzeug parken Details ansehen
    Ferrari F430 F1 MONZA , Sportwagen/Coupé Gebraucht

    EUR 174.000
    E-12006 Castellon, EZ: 06/05, 2.850 km, 360 kW (489 PS), rot, Benzin, Klimaautomatik, ABS, Stabilitätskontrolle...


    Fahrzeug parken Details ansehen
    Ferrari F430 F1 , Sportwagen/Coupé Gebraucht

    EUR 174.300
    D-10711 Berlin, EZ: 03/05, 4.800 km, 235 kW (320 PS), silverstone grey-metallic, Benzin, Automatik, Klimaautomatik, ABS, Stabilitätskontrolle...


    Fahrzeug parken Details ansehen
    Ferrari F430 F1 80 Punkte Service , Sportwagen/Coupé Gebraucht

    EUR 174.900
    D-78224 Singen / Hohentwiel, EZ: 02/05, 10.200 km, 360 kW (489 PS), GELB, Benzin, Schaltgetriebe, Klimaautomatik, ABS, Stabilitätskontrolle...


    Fahrzeug parken Details ansehen
    Ferrari F430 F1 , Sportwagen/Coupé Gebraucht

    EUR 175.000
    D-71229 Leonberg, EZ: 09/05, 4.800 km, 360 kW (489 PS), Rosso Corsa-metallic, Benzin, Schaltgetriebe, Klimaautomatik, Stabilitätskontrolle...



    Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrill

    Quote:
    AUM said:
    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    The link doesn't work.

    Go to any Ferrari dealer in the US and if you can find a NEW F430 Coupe or Spider for MSRP that you can buy immediately, I'll buy it for you.




    Ferrari F430 , Sportwagen/Coupé
    EUR 169.000, MwSt. ausweisbar, VB
    I-36063 mason, EZ: 06/06, 1 km, 360 kW (489 PS), rot, Benzin, Schaltgetriebe, Klimaautomatik, Stabilitätskontrolle...


    Ferrari F430 , Sportwagen/Coupé Gebraucht

    EUR 153.900, MwSt. ausweisbar
    D-54608 Bleialf, EZ: 03/05, 9.800 km, 360 kW (489 PS), schwarz, Benzin, Schaltgetriebe, Klimaanlage, ABS, Zentralverriegelung...


    Fahrzeug parken Details ansehen
    Ferrari F430 F1 , Sportwagen/Coupé Gebraucht

    EUR 158.200
    E-29660 Marbella, EZ: 09/05, 2.301 km, 360 kW (489 PS), rosso, Benzin, Euro 4, Halbautomatik, Klimaautomatik, ABS, Stabilitätskontrolle...


    Verfügbarkeit: sofort Fahrzeug parken Details ansehen
    Ferrari F430 F1 , Sportwagen/Coupé Gebraucht

    EUR 159.000, MwSt. ausweisbar
    A-9020 Klagenfurt, EZ: 03/05, 20.000 km, 360 kW (489 PS), nero, Benzin, Schaltgetriebe, Klimaautomatik, Stabilitätskontrolle...


    Verfügbarkeit: 10.08.2006 Fahrzeug parken Details ansehen
    Ferrari 430 F1 Ceramik , Sportwagen/Coupé Gebraucht

    EUR 168.000
    D-70736 Fellbach, EZ: 11/05, 10.800 km, rot, Benzin, Automatik, Klimaautomatik, ABS, Stabilitätskontrolle...


    Fahrzeug parken Details ansehen
    Ferrari F430 F1 Super Kondition und sofort lieferbar!! , Sportwagen/Coupé Neu

    EUR 168.000, MwSt. ausweisbar (inkl. Überführung: 1500 EUR)
    D-74199 Obergruppenbach, 25 km, 360 kW (489 PS), nuerburgring-silber-mettalic-metallic, Benzin, Schaltgetriebe, Klimaautomatik, ABS, Stabilitätskontrolle...


    Fahrzeug parken Details ansehen
    Ferrari F430 F1 , Sportwagen/Coupé Gebraucht


    Fahrzeug parken Details ansehen
    Ferrari F430 F1 , Sportwagen/Coupé Gebraucht

    EUR 169.500, MwSt. ausweisbar
    D-64331 Weiterstadt, EZ: 09/05, 8.800 km, 360 kW (489 PS), rot, HU: 09/08, Benzin, Automatik, Klimaautomatik, ABS, Stabilitätskontrolle...


    Fahrzeug parken Details ansehen
    Ferrari F 430 F1*CERAMIC*1.HAND*NEUZUSTAND* , Sportwagen/Coupé Gebraucht

    EUR 169.800
    D-40668 Meerbusch, EZ: 04/05, 4.850 km, 360 kW (489 PS), rot, Benzin, Euro 4, Automatik, Klimaautomatik, Leichtmetallfelgen


    Fahrzeug parken Details ansehen
    Ferrari F430 F1 Wie Neu , Sportwagen/Coupé Gebraucht

    EUR 169.990
    D-24941 Flensburg, EZ: 03/05, 6.000 km, 360 kW (489 PS), Silverstonegrey-Metallic, Benzin, Euro 4, Automatik, Klimaautomatik, Stabilitätskontrolle...


    Fahrzeug parken Details ansehen
    Ferrari F 430 Keramik-Karbon Navi 6-Gang Absolut Voll , Sportwagen/Coupé Gebraucht

    EUR 169.998, MwSt. ausweisbar
    D-36433 Leimbach/Bad Salzungen, EZ: 05/05, 4.500 km, 357 kW (485 PS), gelb (Giallo-Modena), HU: 05/08, Benzin, Euro 3, Schaltgetriebe, Klimaautomatik, ABS, Stabilitätskontrolle...


    Fahrzeug parken Details ansehen
    Ferrari F430 F1 , Sportwagen/Coupé Gebraucht

    EUR 170.000
    D-71229 Leonberg, EZ: 02/05, 18.300 km, 360 kW (489 PS), Rosso Corsa-metallic, Benzin, Automatik, Klimaautomatik, Stabilitätskontrolle...


    Fahrzeug parken Details ansehen
    Ferrari F430 F1 , Sportwagen/Coupé Gebraucht

    EUR 172.000
    D-71229 Leonberg, EZ: 03/05, 11.800 km, 360 kW (489 PS), Rosso Corsa-metallic, Benzin, Automatik, Klimaautomatik, Stabilitätskontrolle...


    Fahrzeug parken Details ansehen
    Ferrari F430 F1 , Sportwagen/Coupé Gebraucht

    EUR 172.500
    D-28816 Stuhr/Bremen, EZ: 02/05, 9.768 km, 360 kW (489 PS), giallo modena, Benzin, Automatik, Lederausstattung, Navigationssystem


    Verfügbarkeit: sofort Fahrzeug parken Details ansehen
    Ferrari F430 F1 , Sportwagen/Coupé Gebraucht

    EUR 172.800, MwSt. ausweisbar
    A-2500 Baden, EZ: 05/05, 6.000 km, 360 kW (489 PS), schwarz, Benzin, Automatik, Klimaautomatik, Stabilitätskontrolle...


    Fahrzeug parken Details ansehen
    Ferrari F430 F1 Carbon Brake Navi Daytona Sitze Carbon , Sportwagen/Coupé Gebraucht

    EUR 173.500, MwSt. ausweisbar
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    Fahrzeug parken Details ansehen
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    Stradale said: "...in the US..."

    Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrill

    Quote:
    Persuader said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    Persuader said:
    Well these are used cars. Of course there are always used cars for sale. That's no news.


    Yes, they are used cars, but the prices aren't astronomical, as would be the case in the US. I'm pretty sure Nick Berry wouldn't buy a 430 if he lived in Europe.
    I can walk into a Ferrari dealership here and order a 430 to specs, which I would receive in 5-6 months. It follows from that, that these cars aren't incredibly hard to get, at least not in Europe. The US, as we all know, is a different situation altogether, but with the amount of people wanting to be seen, it doesn't really surprise me.


    Maybe in mainland Europe but not the UK. We have 3-4yr wait and now have to put down Pounds10000 GBP Deposit when ordering.



    Natural limitation is the name, right-hand-drive is the game .

    Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrill

    Yes, VK, I understand your point about the pseudo-Ponzi scheme of F marketing in the USA. I was only alluding to your statistic to emphasize that the current relative scarcity of F cars in the USA makes their cars "exotic."

    I know F talks about increasing F car numbers in the USA, but don't know if this is just talking the talk, but not walking the walk. Things like increasing official dealership numbers, increasing unit #'s sent to the USA (and presumably also total worldwide production rather than merely shunting current production #'s to the USA), this could all impact the Ponzi-esque setup here, but Porsche/PCNA at least publicly seems to be the envy of Ferrrari, Aston Martin, Lambo and others from the marketing/profitability standpoint.

    Do you think Ferrari has bonafide plans to expand its market in the USA by large amounts or is this mere PR from Maranello?

    Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrill

    Quote:
    Turbo Al said:
    Yes, VK, I understand your point about the pseudo-Ponzi scheme of F marketing in the USA. I was only alluding to your statistic to emphasize that the current relative scarcity of F cars in the USA makes their cars "exotic."

    I know F talks about increasing F car numbers in the USA, but don't know if this is just talking the talk, but not walking the walk. Things like increasing official dealership numbers, increasing unit #'s sent to the USA (and presumably also total worldwide production rather than merely shunting current production #'s to the USA), this could all impact the Ponzi-esque setup here, but Porsche/PCNA at least publicly seems to be the envy of Ferrrari, Aston Martin, Lambo and others from the marketing/profitability standpoint.

    Do you think Ferrari has bonafide plans to expand its market in the USA by large amounts or is this mere PR from Maranello?



    I doubt that Porsche envies other manufacturers' profitability, when they're the ones being imdependent and making billions in profits. However, I agree with you about the marketing. A good thing would be to kill the Cayenne and drastically reduce Boxster/Cayman production. However, profits would be smaller.

    Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrill

    I cannot see that happening in the near future.

    Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrill

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    A good thing would be to kill the Cayenne and drastically reduce Boxster/Cayman production. However, profits would be smaller.



    Dumping the Cayman would be the only thing I would do. And I would dump the Cayenne V6, at the same time I would raise the power on the Cayenne S to 400 HP. A Cayenne Diesel would be nice too for the European market, around 400 HP.

    Why should Porsche kill the Cayenne, my Cayenne Turbo Powerkit is so much fun to drive and the perfect family car for a powerhungry dad of two little kids. Why lower Boxster production, the Boxster is a fine car and surely the entry level model to the 911.

    Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrill

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    A good thing would be to kill the Cayenne and drastically reduce Boxster/Cayman production. However, profits would be smaller.



    Dumping the Cayman would be the only thing I would do. And I would dump the Cayenne V6, at the same time I would raise the power on the Cayenne S to 400 HP. A Cayenne Diesel would be nice too for the European market, around 400 HP.

    Why should Porsche kill the Cayenne, my Cayenne Turbo Powerkit is so much fun to drive and the perfect family car for a powerhungry dad of two little kids. Why lower Boxster production, the Boxster is a fine car and surely the entry level model to the 911.



    I was speaking in reference to the US market. The Cayenne is great, but how much longer can these SUV's survive in the high-priced oil market of today? The Boxster production could be reduced, by eliminating the basic model and only leaving the "S".
    Sorry if I'm not making any sense, but fireworks have been going off above my house for the last ten minutes and it sounds like a war zone here .

    Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrill

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    Turbo Al said:
    Yes, VK, I understand your point about the pseudo-Ponzi scheme of F marketing in the USA. I was only alluding to your statistic to emphasize that the current relative scarcity of F cars in the USA makes their cars "exotic."

    I know F talks about increasing F car numbers in the USA, but don't know if this is just talking the talk, but not walking the walk. Things like increasing official dealership numbers, increasing unit #'s sent to the USA (and presumably also total worldwide production rather than merely shunting current production #'s to the USA), this could all impact the Ponzi-esque setup here, but Porsche/PCNA at least publicly seems to be the envy of Ferrrari, Aston Martin, Lambo and others from the marketing/profitability standpoint.

    Do you think Ferrari has bonafide plans to expand its market in the USA by large amounts or is this mere PR from Maranello?



    I doubt that Porsche envies other manufacturers' profitability, when they're the ones being imdependent and making billions in profits. However, I agree with you about the marketing. A good thing would be to kill the Cayenne and drastically reduce Boxster/Cayman production. However, profits would be smaller.



    Crash, I think I confused you with my English. I meant to imply that YES, Ferrari and the other companies envy/are jealous of Porsche for their profitability, not vice versa. I think I recall Ferrari admitting that specifically.

    Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrill

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    A good thing would be to kill the Cayenne and drastically reduce Boxster/Cayman production. However, profits would be smaller.



    Dumping the Cayman would be the only thing I would do. And I would dump the Cayenne V6, at the same time I would raise the power on the Cayenne S to 400 HP. A Cayenne Diesel would be nice too for the European market, around 400 HP.

    Why should Porsche kill the Cayenne, my Cayenne Turbo Powerkit is so much fun to drive and the perfect family car for a powerhungry dad of two little kids. Why lower Boxster production, the Boxster is a fine car and surely the entry level model to the 911.



    I was speaking in reference to the US market. The Cayenne is great, but how much longer can these SUV's survive in the high-priced oil market of today? The Boxster production could be reduced, by eliminating the basic model and only leaving the "S".
    Sorry if I'm not making any sense, but fireworks have been going off above my house for the last ten minutes and it sounds like a war zone here .




    Crash,

    Americans absolutely LOVE SUV's (remember, we are the country that uses the pickup truck as a daily driver ), and it will take more than current oil prices to deter them. By then, we will have invented other ways to power these large vehicles.

    Hopefully those fireworks you refer to are the kinds for celebrations....

    I agree with RC on dumping the Cayman, but I understand why Porsche decided to build it. I wonder if it might be selling better if they marketed it below the Boxster as a true entry-level Porsche. Not that I hope for this. I don't wish for "riff-raff" amongst Porsche buyers. Hopefully, the Panamera at the high-end will strengthen Porsche as did the Cayenne and Boxster. Porsche has alot of competition with MB, Audi, BMW and others in the luxury/sport sedan market, so I wish them all the luck. I'll be ready to trade my Audi S4 by 2009 so timing will be good for me.

    Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrill

    A question to the financial experts (most notably VKSF):

    If the market for F430s is artifically skewed to help resale factors in the US, why doesn't Ferrari do this in other places (namely Europe). Furthermore, if they were more profit motivated, why wouldn't they increase their production? Fear of the consumer waking up and looking at competition?

    Why would they care? Couldn't they keep their profits up more?

     
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