Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrilled - Page1

Jun 22, 2006 11:18:16 PM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002

Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrilled

with the exhaust, I am curious as to why Porsche choose not to make the car sound more aggressive. My speculation is twofold:

1. In keeping with the GT daily driver theme the car should not sound like a high perf. car. But doesn't the designation Turbo with a tail on the back belie that assumption that it is not a perf. car?

2. There are marketing/profit motives by selling sport exhaust as an option. But is PSE available as an option?

Whatever the reason Porsche clearly should have made the car more perf.sounding. Top Gear and Car address the issue in terms of driving excitement asnd go on to say that if a buyer really wanted a high perf. car with sound from Porsche the GT3 may be the better choice.

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Jun 22, 2006 11:31:22 PM

JP66: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Seattle , United States; Posts: 2217, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 10, 2003; Reply to: nberry

Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrilled

Quote:
nberry said:
But doesn't the designation Turbo with a tail on the back belie that assumption that it is not a perf. car?

The VW Bug has a model designation of "turbo" with a "wing", but we all know it's not a perf.sportscar...

I agree that the Turbo should have come with PSE, even as an option. If one is worried about it being to "loud" at certian places/times, one could sinply use the on/off switch on the dash.

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Jun 22, 2006 11:51:16 PM

trip: Expert; Loc: Bay Area California , United States; Posts: 1691, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 11, 2006; Reply to: nberry

Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrilled

Quote:
nberry said:
with the exhaust, I am curious as to why Porsche choose not to make the car sound more aggressive. My speculation is twofold:

1. In keeping with the GT daily driver theme the car should not sound like a high perf. car. But doesn't the designation Turbo with a tail on the back belie that assumption that it is not a perf. car?

2. There are marketing/profit motives by selling sport exhaust as an option. But is PSE available as an option?

Whatever the reason Porsche clearly should have made the car more perf.sounding. Top Gear and Car address the issue in terms of driving excitement asnd go on to say that if a buyer really wanted a high perf. car with sound from Porsche the GT3 may be the better choice.

Couldn't let people enjoy their new cars without trying to put a negative spin on it could you. Next time your out in your 430, beware the BEAST!

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Jun 23, 2006 12:24:14 AM

dhayek: Rennteam Master; Loc: Beirut , Lebanon; Posts: 3839, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 7, 2004; Reply to: trip

Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrilled

true ,all the range except the tt has or a better sound or an optional pse. frusrating

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Jun 23, 2006 1:05:29 AM

W8MM: Rennteam Master; Loc: Cincinnati, OH , United States; Posts: 3995, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 8, 2003; Reply to: nberry

Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrilled

Quote:
nberry said:2. There are marketing/profit motives by selling sport exhaust as an option. But is PSE available as an option?

You are trying too hard to find a reason.

Are you a conspiracy theorist?

Maybe the majority of customers who may ACTUALLY BUY THIS CAR are not Tubi fanboys?

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Jun 23, 2006 1:11:15 AM

JimFlat6: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cave , United States; Posts: 8633, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2004; Reply to: W8MM

Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrilled

Nick, the car meets all upcoming noise regs for 2008. So dont be surprised if your 2009 F480 sounds like the maid Hoovering downstairs.

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Jun 23, 2006 1:31:47 AM

Alan(NJ): Pilot; Loc: Paramus NJ USA; Posts: 403, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 29, 2002; Reply to: nberry

Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrill

You know, with all the hondas and toyotas trying to sound like Ferraris having a subtle sound may not be that bad. Quite frankly, the only car that I truely love the sound of is your F430 - it is electrifying. Noisy Porsches don't do it for me and the PSE I had on my C4S was "no big thing".

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Jun 23, 2006 2:38:39 AM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: W8MM

Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrilled

Quote:
W8MM said:
Quote:
nberry said:2. There are marketing/profit motives by selling sport exhaust as an option. But is PSE available as an option?

You are trying too hard to find a reason.

Are you a conspiracy theorist?

Maybe the majority of customers who may ACTUALLY BUY THIS CAR are not Tubi fanboys?

Mike, Porsche does DOES NOTHING FOR THE CUSTOMER UNLESS THERE IS A PROFIT WINDFALL! When will you learn this about Porsche? And before you say that other companies are no different thing again. Ferrari, Lamborgini, AM and even GN with the Z06 can sell substantially more cars if they would build more.

Trip, this has nothing to do with 997TT owners car enjoyment. It is an issue that must be addressed. The 430's have ugly exhaust tail pipes and for the life of me I do not understand why Ferrari chose them. I am trying to find after market replacements but I still enjoy the car.

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Jun 23, 2006 2:40:39 AM

ADias: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Southwest USA , United States; Posts: 2495, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 9, 2004; Reply to: nberry

Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrill

The exhaust note is just fine. PERIOD!

It fits the Porsche 'form fits function' philosophy, real Porsche fans like. I rather drive an aural subdued supercar than a look-at-me italian, driving at a leisure 30MPH, barking as if it is doing 120MPH (just ridiculous and adolescent), while I quietly blast by it at triple digits. Sorry Nick, but you asked for it.

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Jun 23, 2006 2:48:07 AM

JimFlat6: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cave , United States; Posts: 8633, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2004; Reply to: ADias

Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrill

Nick, Ferrari has an even steeper price for entry, so when it comes to PROFIT WINDFALL go get wound up at the gate at Maranello first.

How many more Birthday parties do you intend to stink up with your gift wrapped gloom?

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Jun 23, 2006 3:00:45 AM

W8MM: Rennteam Master; Loc: Cincinnati, OH , United States; Posts: 3995, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 8, 2003; Reply to: nberry

Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrilled

Quote:
nberry said:
Mike, Porsche does DOES NOTHING FOR THE CUSTOMER UNLESS THERE IS A PROFIT WINDFALL! When will you learn this about Porsche?

What on earth does comment this have to do with you being a Tubi fanboy

"windfall

Definition

Money received which was not expected and not a direct result of something the recipient did. "

What's your point?

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Jun 23, 2006 3:11:28 AM

SoCal Alan: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Orange County , United States; Posts: 7268, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 6, 2004; Reply to: nberry

Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrilled

Quote:
nberry said:
Quote:
W8MM said:
Quote:
nberry said:2. There are marketing/profit motives by selling sport exhaust as an option. But is PSE available as an option?

You are trying too hard to find a reason.

Are you a conspiracy theorist?

Maybe the majority of customers who may ACTUALLY BUY THIS CAR are not Tubi fanboys?

Mike, Porsche does DOES NOTHING FOR THE CUSTOMER UNLESS THERE IS A PROFIT WINDFALL! When will you learn this about Porsche? And before you say that other companies are no different thing again. Ferrari, Lamborgini, AM and even GN with the Z06 can sell substantially more cars if they would build more.

Trip, this has nothing to do with 997TT owners car enjoyment. It is an issue that must be addressed. The 430's have ugly exhaust tail pipes and for the life of me I do not understand why Ferrari chose them. I am trying to find after market replacements but I still enjoy the car.

Nick, I went into Newport Auto Center to inquire about the waiting list for the 997TT. There are 140 people on the list. In your world, I would never be able to buy a new 997TT if Porsche decided to restrict the number of 997TT's that they produce. Thanks for your concern for us, but no thanks.

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Jun 23, 2006 3:52:34 AM

WBH: Expert; Loc: CA; Posts: 1963, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 2, 2004; Reply to: SoCal Alan

Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrilled

I always drive w/windows closed and (any) sunroof closed ....so even 430's exhaust note to driver/owner is nothing remarkable.....but 430's note is great for impressing crowds in urban streetscapes, if that's important.....to each his own....

Will get a new 997TT every yr in any case (hate old cars

) w/whatever new perf options, PDK/power kit/PSE, become avail....IMO, $150K for a loaded 997TT, even w/P's US deprec, is an incredibly fair value....

Applaud F's adoption of P-like pricing on options like CCM, cf, etc etc

....after all, P/F aren't charities for cash-poor car enthusiasts/wannabe racecar drivers; they are businesses that need to be amply profitable for their shareholders....and, in F's case, they need to invest much more R&D into competent safety engineering, using the data from the FXX crash-testing program....

Exhaust notes are great for impressing some LV chicks, but I'd rather see much more competent safety engineering @F....IMO safety is much more useful to actual owners/drivers than any exhaust note ever will be....

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Jun 23, 2006 4:30:42 AM

silverrules: Senior; Loc: N. Calif , United States; Posts: 784, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 5, 2005; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrill

Nick, I had heard the same about the sound not being great and all but after listening to the sound on porsche web site, I actually like it very much.
Go to us web site, select build your turbo, select 911 turbo and under feature and specs, click on sound and turn up your volume and enjoy.
http://www.porsche.com/usa/models/911/911-turbo/

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Jun 23, 2006 9:10:04 AM

Ed J: Pilot; Loc: London; Posts: 407, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 4, 2004; Reply to: silverrules

Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrill

You guys are so defensive. On the 997 site, every talks about how wonderful the PSE is. Yet on the Turbo site there are comments like "I always drive with the windows shut" or "The exhaust note is just fine PERIOD".

If everyone said "nice" things about Porsche, this would be a very boring forum indeed.

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Jun 23, 2006 9:27:01 AM

polo: Senior; Loc: France; Posts: 539, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 26, 2006; Reply to: Ed J

Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrill

The sound is definitely ok, however, I would have prefered a more raw sound but not as loud as some other cars...And if they would have offered a PSE, I would have taken it without a doubt.
I do like to hear sometimes the mettalic grunt and pitch of a sport exhaust when I have a spirited drive.

Nick raise one of the wickest point of the 997 TT, and I must admit that I take his critic positively because I would have taken the PSE.
Porsche SHOULD have brought a PSE as an option, porsche has no excused not to offer a slighltly more noise making exhaust.

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Jun 23, 2006 9:35:42 AM

W211: Pilot; Loc:; Posts: 410, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 18, 2003; Reply to: polo

Not for those trying to attract attention

The steathy approach the 997TT takes is what I like about the car.

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Jun 23, 2006 10:16:47 AM

temm: Rennteam Master; Loc: Oslo , Norway; Posts: 4122, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 24, 2003; Reply to: silverrules

Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrill

Quote:
silverrules said:
Nick, I had heard the same about the sound not being great and all but after listening to the sound on porsche web site, I actually like it very much.
Go to us web site, select build your turbo, select 911 turbo and under feature and specs, click on sound and turn up your volume and enjoy.
http://www.porsche.com/usa/models/911/911-turbo/

Enjoy? It sounds like Tim "The Toolman" Taylor's leafblower to me - whoooooosh

(waiting for some real life clips/hearing it live before I make my definitive judgement)

Listen to the GT3 instead, THAT is what a Porsche should sound like IMO

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Jun 23, 2006 10:27:29 AM

Matt C: Veteran; Loc: Switzerland , Switzerland; Posts: 1092, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 28, 2003; Reply to: temm

Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrill

Quote:
temm said:

Listen to the GT3 instead, THAT is what a Porsche should sound like IMO

Fully agree with that! (I haven't heard a 997GT3 yet though.)

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Jun 23, 2006 10:43:34 AM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: nberry

Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrilled

Nick, not every sportscar owner wants to attract attention.

We Germans are experts when it comes to "stealth richness".

We are those who invented the de-badging of expensive Mercedes and BMW models. Most BMW 7-series and Mercedes S-class models are driving around without any model designation over here. This even applies to the 5-series, the E-class and other models from Audi, etc.
My Cayenne Turbo Powerkit is the best example: in the US, people would put a "Turbo S" badge on the rear, I have...NONE.

Same with exhaust "loudness": many customers, especially in Germany (the second largest market for Porsche), are business men. The 911 has already become some sort of "icon" for the succesful business man over here but the colours are usually dark colours or silver, you don't see many red or even yellow cars around here. You can't expect a business man to drive a business car with a loud exhaust, this wouldn't be possible. And of course it has to do with comfort too, people are working in these cars, for example making phone calls.

To make it short: to allow the 997 Turbo to be a (almost) perfect daily driver, the sound has been somehow "cut off". Another problem regarding sound is the turbo charger technology. It never was easy to make a turbo charged car sound nice without compromises regarding power output and torque.

But maybe we should listen to what Mr. Dürheimer (Weissach boss) had to say during an interview: he claimed that there will be a sport exhaust available for the 997 Turbo. I hope he is right because I wouldn't want to mess around with aftermarket stuff on a turbo charged car.

But I get your point and I agree: the 997 Turbo is definetely not "sporty" enough regarding the exhaust/engine sound and I would have preferred something more "throaty" for my car.

And before somebody gives me the F430 as an example, I would like to point out that most GERMAN F430 are driving around ILLEGAL. The legal sound isn't that nice and the "button activated" sound is not legal over here. But the same appliest to the PSE hack.

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Jun 23, 2006 10:59:59 AM

dhayek: Rennteam Master; Loc: Beirut , Lebanon; Posts: 3839, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 7, 2004; Reply to: RC

Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrilled

well said christian... the best compromise IMO is a button on the dashboard to turn it loud when you feel like ,and turn iy off when you are cruising..

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Jun 23, 2006 11:08:19 AM

Rossi: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Home , Germany; Posts: 12681, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrilled

Quote:
RC said:
And before somebody gives me the F430 as an example, I would like to point out that most GERMAN F430 are driving around ILLEGAL. The legal sound isn't that nice and the "button activated" sound is not legal over here.

If I were you, I would attend an otologist ASAP.

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Jun 23, 2006 11:24:37 AM

Mussl Kar: Junior; Loc: Boston area; Posts: 91, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 1, 2006; Reply to: Rossi

Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrilled

Well I listened to mine on Monday. The salesman started it up a mildly revved it a bit. It certainly is no SL55 in the sound department and I am OK with that. Most of the sound from any car is lost out the back anyway. Thats why I sometimes make a small detour on the way home. There is this long underpass with straight up concrete walls. I enter rolling in first gear and then mash the loud pedal. I make a U turn and do it again and head home.

I pick mine up at the close of business tomorrow. The waiting is making me crazy.

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Jun 23, 2006 11:31:06 AM

ESu: Newbie; Loc: Helsinki, Finland; Posts: 16, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 2, 2006; Reply to: RC

Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrill

I drove brand new TT last week at the dealer and to my taste it's fully business like - not too loud and yet you can here that the engine is there. Especially if you plan to make phone calls while driving the sound couldn't be any louder.

I currently drive 996 C4S with factory sport exhaust and every now and then I have to explain where I'm calling and what's the noise in the background. Not good for an entrepneur trying to get new business and grab to the existing clients.

During the test drive, local dealer also hinted about the possible sport exhaust for Turbo. Lets hope that shows up before 1.3.2007, when I have delivery. This would be clean & safe way to upgrade sounds since I think I'll get around this sound problem by getting a business Golf for daily use.

-ESu

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Jun 23, 2006 11:33:29 AM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Rossi

Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrilled

Quote:
Rossi said:
If I were you, I would attend an otologist ASAP.

Don't tell me you're the only one in Germany driving with the legal setting.

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Jun 23, 2006 11:39:55 AM

zzboba: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Germany; Posts: 3115, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 8, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrill

my F430 exhaust is stock. and it's extremely loud when i want it to be extremely loud and it's... erm... loud when i don't want it to be extremly loud. just by throttle control.

and sound is always great.

sometimes i'm under the impression that you have some problem with the F430. but why?

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Jun 23, 2006 11:44:28 AM

Nick_Athens: Senior; Loc: Greece , Greece; Posts: 710, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 23, 2004; Reply to: zzboba

Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrill

Quote:
zzboba said:
my F430 exhaust is stock. and it's extremely loud when i want it to be extremely loud and it's... erm... loud when i don't want it to be extremly loud. just by throttle control.

and sound is always great.

sometimes i'm under the impression that you have some problem with the F430. but why?

I can explain why.. Porsche cars are just MASS PRODUCTION CARS not SUPERCARS (you want to accept it or not, this is the truth)
For this reason Porsche builds as many cars as it can sell.. Ferrari on the other hand not...

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Jun 23, 2006 11:57:52 AM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: Nick_Athens

Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrill

Quote:
Nick_Athens said:
Quote:
zzboba said:
my F430 exhaust is stock. and it's extremely loud when i want it to be extremely loud and it's... erm... loud when i don't want it to be extremly loud. just by throttle control.

and sound is always great.

sometimes i'm under the impression that you have some problem with the F430. but why?

I can explain why.. Porsche cars are just MASS PRODUCTION CARS not SUPERCARS (you want to accept it or not, this is the truth)
For this reason Porsche builds as many cars as it can sell.. Ferrari on the other hand not...

Nick, you are mistaken.
Ferrari builds as many cars as it can sell, but the catch is, they can't build as many. Also, MASS PRODUCTION has nothing to do with the word SUPERCAR. You can call a car exotic (which the F430 isn't, at 4000+ units per year) or mass produced. Then, there is the supercar, but this only designates the car's performance envelope. The new Corvette Z06 is a supercar, no doubt about it, but it's nowhere near being an exotic. The Turbo and the 430 are also supercars, and they aren't exotic either (4000+ and 6000 units annually).

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Jun 23, 2006 12:04:38 PM

Rossi: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Home , Germany; Posts: 12681, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: zzboba

Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrill

Quote:
zzboba said:
my F430 exhaust is stock. and it's extremely loud when i want it to be extremely loud and it's... erm... loud when i don't want it to be extremly loud. just by throttle control.

and sound is always great.

Absolutely true.

Quote:
sometimes i'm under the impression that you have some problem with the F430. but why?

Also true.

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Jun 23, 2006 12:20:51 PM

Nick_Athens: Senior; Loc: Greece , Greece; Posts: 710, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 23, 2004; Reply to: Crash

Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrill

Quote:
Crash said:

Nick, you are mistaken.
Ferrari builds as many cars as it can sell, but the catch is, they can't build as many. Also, MASS PRODUCTION has nothing to do with the word SUPERCAR. You can call a car exotic (which the F430 isn't, at 4000+ units per year) or mass produced. Then, there is the supercar, but this only designates the car's performance envelope. The new Corvette Z06 is a supercar, no doubt about it, but it's nowhere near being an exotic. The Turbo and the 430 are also supercars, and they aren't exotic either (4000+ and 6000 units annually).

I speak about Porsche cars Vs Ferrari cars.. (I mean Cayenne Boxster Cayman 911s 4doors cars maybe in the future busses etc) For this reason As porsche IS a mass production car if you search in mobile.de you will find 996turbos SO CHEAP (sometimes cheaper than 993tt)
The famous law of Demand and Supply...

Now if you find 997tt same exotic car as F430 i can take you a ride to see the reaction of people when they see a 997tt and F430

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Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrilled

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Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrilled

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Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrilled

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Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrill

Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrill

Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrill

Not for those trying to attract attention

Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrill

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Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrilled

Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrilled

Re: Now that most reviewers love the car but are less thrilled

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