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    Jun 12, 2006 2:12:19 PM

    amjf088
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    Reply to: Thom

    Re: 996/997 engine failures

    I went through a few months of fear after buying my Subaru WRX because when I started reading the internet forums, it seemed inevitable that my transmission was doomed to fall to pieces. Well, that was 2001, and the tranny is still just fine, and, all the WRX owners I know locally have had no tranny problemns either (except for one guy who has modded his car for lots of power...).

    Lesson for me is that internet forums are not a reliable way to ascertain the true size of a problem. Typically, they will over-magnify it. Since becoming a PCA member, I have found that the vast majority of 996/986 owners I have spoken with in this area have had good luck with their cars. This does not mean that there are not cars with issues, but there are a lot without too.

    If you dig, you can find out stuff on any car that would make you hesitate to buy. Interestingly, Porsche has done quite well in that OTHER JD Power study, the three-year old car dependability study:

    http://www.autoblog.com/2006/01/29/j-d-power-releases-long-term-vehicle-dependability-study/

    Jun 12, 2006 2:57:48 PM

    edz
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    Reply to: amjf088

    Re: 996/997 engine failures

    I don't know about the 997S but the 996 engine will cost $10,000 to exchange your old engine with a new one from Porsche of North America. I have a personal mechanic who works on all my cars when my warranty is over and changes the oil and does the brake service for me all year long. He is in Southern CA (South OC) and will do all the work for you at a very reasonable price. I had a C2 Turbo 3.6 a few years back, sadly I blew a bearing and no one would touch the car for less than $12,000 but he did it for $6,000

    Jun 12, 2006 6:08:56 PM

    Silver Bullet
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    Reply to: chapse

    Re: 996/997 engine failures

    Quote:
    chapse said:
    Found this pdf file on 996 engines and reliability, might help if your on the fence on buying a 997 do to engine worries (takes some time to download)

    http://www.renntech.org/forums/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=3224



    Thanks - I enjoyed that.

    Jun 12, 2006 7:03:38 PM

    mikekenzo
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    Reply to: Silver Bullet

    Re: 996/997 engine failures

    THis topic has been discussed at length as it relates to the "RMS" issue, i.e. rear main seal. This is a problem that plagues 996, 997 and boxster engines. It went on my 2001 boxster and required a new engine. I opted to trade it in for my 997. This is a real issue, and after many bandaid attempts to fix it, it was determined that the engine block in this area had warped and no amount of seal replacements would ever work. THis is my #1 griped with porsche and I will never own a Porsche outside of the warrenty period as they did not help me one bit on a clear manufacturing problem, regardless if it occured outside of the warranty period (in my case, 7k miles).

    Jun 12, 2006 7:19:49 PM

    beltar
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    Reply to: mikekenzo

    Re: 996/997 engine failures

    As said above, this forum is visited by a lot of 997 owners. When the engine had a dreadful, incurable problem i thinch we should have known already. I know several people driving a 997 and until now nobody has had an engine problem. At my dealer ther is a car that covered allready 175.000km without problems.
    As always i believe that there will be some problem cars but either exception as rule i thinck... and hope

    Jun 12, 2006 7:20:06 PM

    MAVERICK Offline
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    Reply to: mikekenzo

    Re: 996/997 engine failures

    Quote:
    mikekenzo said:
    THis topic has been discussed at length as it relates to the "RMS" issue, i.e. rear main seal. This is a problem that plagues 996, 997 and boxster engines. It went on my 2001 boxster and required a new engine. I opted to trade it in for my 997. This is a real issue, and after many bandaid attempts to fix it, it was determined that the engine block in this area had warped and no amount of seal replacements would ever work. THis is my #1 griped with porsche and I will never own a Porsche outside of the warrenty period as they did not help me one bit on a clear manufacturing problem, regardless if it occured outside of the warranty period (in my case, 7k miles).



    Jun 12, 2006 7:24:17 PM

    Grant
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    Reply to: mikekenzo

    Re: 996/997 engine failures

    Quote:
    mikekenzo said:
    THis topic has been discussed at length as it relates to the "RMS" issue, i.e. rear main seal. This is a problem that plagues 996, 997 and boxster engines.


    Cayman too...

    Jun 13, 2006 7:20:12 AM

    chapse
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    Reply to: Grant

    Re: 996/997 engine failures

    Actually this entire thread is somewhat crazy, you have all this talk about a $100,000 car not having an engine that can last past its warrenty period, twighlight zone material, and if its true, so much for Porsche engineering, a tragic joke. by the way, searchine the web does reveal a lot of engines going in the toilet

    Jun 13, 2006 10:03:38 AM

    Porsche-Jeck
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    Reply to: amjf088

    Re: 996/997 engine failures

    Quote:
    amjf088 said:
    Lesson for me is that internet forums are not a reliable way to ascertain the true size of a problem.



    I second that. The problem is that there is no such thing like an "official" statistic regarding engine failures/RMS-issue.

    Maybe a look at Porsche's balance sheet can help to get a rough guesstimate at least: Porsche's balance sheet (FY 04/05) shows a provision to cover estimated future expenses from the operating business which amounts to 1.035 bn Euro.
    This provision mainly covers warranty claims and rebates owed to dealerships, so at first glimpse it seems to be impossible to guess the share of warranty claims. But the annual report also says, that a share of 374 million Euro will become due in less than 1 year. If it's fair to assume that the bulk of this 374 mn is owed to the dealerships as rebates/boni (which normally are due right after the closing of the fiscal year), then the vast majority of the remaining 661 mn should be allocated to warranty claims.
    Now that number seems be to be way too high compared to the annual turnover (appr. 10% of turnover), but of course you have to allocate the figure to a multiple of years. For an exact calculation you need to know the average lifetime of contractual warranties for new cars plus extended warranties bought by P-car owners (on world-wide sales).
    As nobody knows this number, you can only estimate again:
    If you would assume a five year warranty period as an average, the provision equals appr. 2% of Porsche's annual turnover. Of course most warranty claims would not require to replace the entire car, so it would be false to assume that only 2% of the annually produced cars would require to fix any problems (including engine failures). To play the devil's advocate let's assume that all warranty claims would refer to engine failures (requiring the replacement of the engine) and that the replacement costs would amount to 8,000 Euro, then the provision would cover 82,625 engines (= 16,525 engines for each production year based on the average 5 yrs warranty lifetime). Of course not all warranty claims refer to engines, so you have to make a further guess: let's say 50% of the provision refers to engines to be replaced, then you end up with 8,263 defective engines per year (appr. 9% of annually produced cars). Still seems to be a quite high number

    Don't take my computation to serious There are too many unknown factors, but at least you have some figures to play with

    PS: FWIW just as a reference - BMW's provision for warranty claims equals 7.3% of their annual turnover

    Jun 13, 2006 10:20:53 AM

    easy_rider911
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    Reply to: Porsche-Jeck

    Re: 996/997 engine failures

    My understanding of the RMS issue is that it affects the 986, 996 (watercooled, i.e. not GT2, GT3 or Turbo) and (possibly) some 987, 997 upto the point in 2005/2006 when Porsche started to fit rear main seals based upon those used in the Cayenne. Apparently, this 'modified' RMS has 'solved' the problem (which Porsche does not officially admit exists). So I assume the dreaded RMS problem should not affect new cars going forward.

    This is my understanding of this issue but please do feel free to correct me if you know better!

    Jun 13, 2006 10:37:17 AM

    Porsche-Jeck
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    Reply to: easy_rider911

    Re: 996/997 engine failures

    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:

    Apparently, this 'modified' RMS has 'solved' the problem (which Porsche does not officially admit exists). So I assume the dreaded RMS problem should not affect new cars going forward.

    This is my understanding of this issue but please do feel free to correct me if you know better!



    From what I understood (not being an engineer) the RMS in many cases (not all cases) is only the symptom of the malady, which derives from the production method used for the crankcase. AFAIK this method has not changed for the 9X7 cars.

    Jun 13, 2006 12:34:26 PM

    TheOldMan
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    Reply to: easy_rider911

    Re: 996/997 engine failures

    Before purchasing my 997S I did a lot of research into the company and the car. There was no objective evidence that the 911 or Boxster had any statistically significant failure rates of any of the major systems in their cars; not the engines or any other part. In fact, the cars that Porsche manufactures are significantly better than most other brands on the roads.

    Any car that is as complicated as a modern day Porsche, or Lexus for that matter, is likely to have some engines that are defective. However, the facts are that the number of cars having significant and material problems is very small.

    If a car design, such as the modern 997 were to have significant issues, it would have a direct effect on the financial statements of the company. Warranty claims are expensive to manage and directly affect the bottom line of a company. If you take a good look at the company's P&L you will see that this is not happening. In fact, Porsche is very profitable because of their excellent management of their brands, manufacturing and sales network.

    After 14 months of ownership of my Porsche I am very, very happy. The quality of the car has been excellent; the service I receive at the dealership has been no less than outstanding.

    The Internet is a great place to share information. But it is also a place where mis-information is easily disseminated. In my circle of friends that have Porsche cars and SUV's, not a single one is unhappy with the product or service. Most drive their cars in the harsh Canadian winter, where salt, snow, ice and sand typically destroy cars. But the 911 and Boxsters work and work well in this environment.

    I survey this and other Porsche message boards and have for a very long time. There have been maybe 3 people that have had engine problems, all resolved by the company to the owner's satisfaction.

    At the end of the day, the true facts speak for themselves. These are reliable and dependable cars that are of a quality and performance level that is greater than most cars sold today.

    To those people that think these cars have major problems, then I suggest you put your money where your mouth is and sell the stock short! But then again, you will probably find that you bet the wrong way on Porsche and are still not driving one of best cars on the road.

    Jun 13, 2006 12:56:03 PM

    WAY
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    Reply to: TheOldMan

    Re: 996/997 engine failures

    Can I just clarify something? 997 has M96 engine like 996 and 997S has M97 engine? What is the difference?

    Jun 13, 2006 5:40:00 PM

    Jim48
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    Reply to: Porsche-Jeck

    Re: 996/997 engine failures

    Quote:
    Porsche-Jeck said:
    Quote:
    amjf088 said:
    Lesson for me is that internet forums are not a reliable way to ascertain the true size of a problem.





    I second that. The problem is that there is no such thing like an "official" statistic regarding engine failures/RMS-issue.

    Maybe a look at Porsche's balance sheet can help to get a rough guesstimate at least: Porsche's balance sheet (FY 04/05) shows a provision to cover estimated future expenses from the operating business which amounts to 1.035 bn Euro.
    This provision mainly covers warranty claims and rebates owed to dealerships, so at first glimpse it seems to be impossible to guess the share of warranty claims. But the annual report also says, that a share of 374 million Euro will become due in less than 1 year. If it's fair to assume that the bulk of this 374 mn is owed to the dealerships as rebates/boni (which normally are due right after the closing of the fiscal year), then the vast majority of the remaining 661 mn should be allocated to warranty claims.
    Now that number seems be to be way too high compared to the annual turnover (appr. 10% of turnover), but of course you have to allocate the figure to a multiple of years. For an exact calculation you need to know the average lifetime of contractual warranties for new cars plus extended warranties bought by P-car owners (on world-wide sales).
    As nobody knows this number, you can only estimate again:
    If you would assume a five year warranty period as an average, the provision equals appr. 2% of Porsche's annual turnover. Of course most warranty claims would not require to replace the entire car, so it would be false to assume that only 2% of the annually produced cars would require to fix any problems (including engine failures). To play the devil's advocate let's assume that all warranty claims would refer to engine failures (requiring the replacement of the engine) and that the replacement costs would amount to 8,000 Euro, then the provision would cover 82,625 engines (= 16,525 engines for each production year based on the average 5 yrs warranty lifetime). Of course not all warranty claims refer to engines, so you have to make a further guess: let's say 50% of the provision refers to engines to be replaced, then you end up with 8,263 defective engines per year (appr. 9% of annually produced cars). Still seems to be a quite high number

    Don't take my computation to serious There are too many unknown factors, but at least you have some figures to play with

    PS: FWIW just as a reference - BMW's provision for warranty claims equals 7.3% of their annual turnover



    Thanks for shedding some light on this concern. I suspect that you are correct in that the actual engine replacement costs are even less than your informed estimates. If not, Porsche could increase their profitability substantially by engineering a solution to any engine problems. Such an investment would pay for itself rather quickly.

    So far, my 997S (I took delivery on Feb. 20) runs great (I have 3,100 miles, or about 4800 km, on it), and my oil consumption is declining (down to about 0.26 ml per mile traveled, or about 1 liter per 3,000 miles) as the mileage increases. A friend of mine, who has owned Porsche's for years, told me that it takes a bit longer for the engine to be broken in when it uses sythetic oil.

    Jim

    Jun 13, 2006 5:48:11 PM

    Jim48
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    Reply to: TheOldMan

    Re: 996/997 engine failures



    Jim

    Jun 13, 2006 5:50:59 PM

    Jim48
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    Reply to: WAY

    Re: 996/997 engine failures

    The M97 has a 3.8 liter displacement and an 11.8 to 1 compression ratio. The M96 has a 3.6 liter displacement and a lower compression ratio. There may be other differences that others know of.

    Jim

    Jun 13, 2006 6:27:58 PM

    Grant
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    Reply to: Jim48

    Re: 996/997 engine failures

    Quote:
    Jim48 said:
    The M97 has a 3.8 liter displacement and an 11.8 to 1 compression ratio. The M96 has a 3.6 liter displacement and a lower compression ratio. There may be other differences that others know of.

    Jim


    The M97 comes in 3.6L and 3.8L displacements (997 and 997S)

    Jun 13, 2006 7:23:10 PM

    Kevin H. in Atl.
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    Reply to: Grant

    Re: 996/997 engine failures




    The M97 comes in 3.6L and 3.8L displacements (997 and 997S)


    According to the 997 PET Catologue, the base 997 engine is an M96.05 rated at 235kw.
    The 997S engine is an M97.01 rated at 261kw.

    Jun 13, 2006 7:34:25 PM

    Grant
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    Reply to: Kevin H. in Atl.

    Re: 996/997 engine failures

    My mistake...

    Jun 13, 2006 8:16:38 PM

    MikeB
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    Reply to: easy_rider911

    Re: 996/997 engine failures

    Yes, that is correct. I just had an RMS leak fixed on my 996. Went back into the shop to talk to the supervisor and he showed me the new seal method. Not sure how to explain it, but it's recessed more in the housing and they have new torque bolts that are supposed to be better. Not sure when they started using this kit but it sounded like it was within the last year or so.
    Now, is this "The" fix for the dreaded RMS leak issue
    Who knows, but let's hope it is an improvement over the past design. I guess the proof would be in the frequency of RMS problems with '06 (at least) 997's and beyond vs. 996( or any older M96 engine).

    Jun 13, 2006 8:38:30 PM

    schao
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    Reply to: Porsche-Jeck

    Re: 996/997 engine failures

    Quote:
    Porsche-Jeck said:
    Quote:
    amjf088 said:
    Lesson for me is that internet forums are not a reliable way to ascertain the true size of a problem.



    I second that. The problem is that there is no such thing like an "official" statistic regarding engine failures/RMS-issue.

    Maybe a look at Porsche's balance sheet can help to get a rough guesstimate at least: Porsche's balance sheet (FY 04/05) shows a provision to cover estimated future expenses from the operating business which amounts to 1.035 bn Euro.
    This provision mainly covers warranty claims and rebates owed to dealerships, so at first glimpse it seems to be impossible to guess the share of warranty claims. But the annual report also says, that a share of 374 million Euro will become due in less than 1 year. If it's fair to assume that the bulk of this 374 mn is owed to the dealerships as rebates/boni (which normally are due right after the closing of the fiscal year), then the vast majority of the remaining 661 mn should be allocated to warranty claims.
    Now that number seems be to be way too high compared to the annual turnover (appr. 10% of turnover), but of course you have to allocate the figure to a multiple of years. For an exact calculation you need to know the average lifetime of contractual warranties for new cars plus extended warranties bought by P-car owners (on world-wide sales).
    As nobody knows this number, you can only estimate again:
    If you would assume a five year warranty period as an average, the provision equals appr. 2% of Porsche's annual turnover. Of course most warranty claims would not require to replace the entire car, so it would be false to assume that only 2% of the annually produced cars would require to fix any problems (including engine failures). To play the devil's advocate let's assume that all warranty claims would refer to engine failures (requiring the replacement of the engine) and that the replacement costs would amount to 8,000 Euro, then the provision would cover 82,625 engines (= 16,525 engines for each production year based on the average 5 yrs warranty lifetime). Of course not all warranty claims refer to engines, so you have to make a further guess: let's say 50% of the provision refers to engines to be replaced, then you end up with 8,263 defective engines per year (appr. 9% of annually produced cars). Still seems to be a quite high number

    Don't take my computation to serious There are too many unknown factors, but at least you have some figures to play with

    PS: FWIW just as a reference - BMW's provision for warranty claims equals 7.3% of their annual turnover



    Your analysis is interesting, thank you. However, I believe that Porsche's warranty provisioning is excessively conservative (between Euro 4-5k/vehicle sold) and can be explained not from what they expect warranty costs to be, but as a way to maximize cash flow (ie. minimize taxes by minimizing taxable income). I also belive that Porsche is rushing quickly to grow it business and cash before they have to content with a less favorable exchange rate in 2-3 years when their long-term FX hedges roll off. Sorry if this is too off-topic.

    Jun 13, 2006 11:20:04 PM

    J.Seven
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    Reply to: schao

    Re: 996/997 engine failures

    My 996 3.4L blown with 50000Km.
    At our Porsche club there are several 996 and Boxster that had their engines replaced. Make a search under my name here and you'll find several links for credible engine blown stories. Go to rennlist.com and you'll find several blown engine stories from credible long time posters.

    This is very said , but Porsche already has a program for 996/986 out of warranty that have a blown engine. First they check your motronic box to see if there have been any modification and check the numbers of hours the engine have been running(this way they check if kilometrs shown on the speedo are real or facked) Then they check if there have been any over-rev register on your ECU. If you pass this firt trial they take your blown engine back and give you a rebuid unit for round about 6000 euros plus taxes and labour. Some parts of your old engine are used and it's three day job. If your engine have been over-reved or the speedo been messed, you may expect some hard headackes, because they wont help you in any way.
    When my car was at the dealer for a new engine, there were two more 996 wating for engines. There are dealers with these rebuild engines in stock This really tells how often these engines blow.
    When I went to Porsche to see the problem my car had,(my engine was still running but with lots of vibration and was low on power) after Porsche tech checked my car , he told me I need a new engine, and there was one rebuilt unit available for immediate delivery on a nearby dealer in stock. I took two weeks trying to get financial help from Porsche but all I was offered was the comun procedure ( a rebuild engine 6000 eur + plus tax + labour ). After two weeks I decide to accept their offer, but the engine that was available two weeks ago was already been put in another car, so I had to waite only three days for a engine to come from Germany.

    M96 engines have been blowing ever since 1997 in Boxsters and Carreras, even the 02 model carrera with 3.6l blows too.
    GT3 and Turbo engines are the real bullet proof engines because they use the old base model.


    J.Seven

    Jun 13, 2006 11:21:11 PM

    luke
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    Reply to: Kevin H. in Atl.

    Re: 996/997 engine failures

    Quote:
    Kevin H. in Atl. said:
    According to the 997 PET Catologue, the base 997 engine is an M96.05 rated at 235kw.
    The 997S engine is an M97.01 rated at 261kw.



    Oh, I was under the impression that the 997 Carrera and 997 Carrera S both had engines designated M97.

    How best should one refer to the standard Carrera motor?

    Jun 13, 2006 11:27:12 PM

    RCA
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    Reply to: Thom

    Re: 996/997 engine failures

    Quote:
    Thom said:
    I've been told that Porsche dealers are doing a lot of engine replacements. The failures have something to do with crankshaft vibration or warping--I'm not sure of the details. Has anyone heard this before?



    By WHOM have you been told that? Because regarding the 997, this is crap. Regarding the 996, there have been engine replacements but nothing too much out of the regular quota compared to other manufacturers. Mostly 996 Carrera engines of course, the GT3/Turbo engines are a different type of engine.

    Jun 13, 2006 11:29:37 PM

    RCA
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    Reply to: KMM

    Re: 996/997 engine failures

    Quote:
    KMM said:
    Known problem with this engine design. Also afflicts Boxster models.



    Please not again the "seal" thing.
    There is no problem with "engine design", there was a problem with the manufacturing process and if it happened a couple of times with the new M97 engine (997 Carrera S/4S models), it is just bad luck.

    Jun 13, 2006 11:34:50 PM

    RCA
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    Reply to: MrBonus

    Re: 996/997 engine failures

    Quote:
    MrBonus said:
    I'm always suprised by the level of credibility given to someone who comes to the forum claiming gloom and doom from an unnamed source and cites incomplete statistics to support their argument.



    Very well sad. The only thing I can say about this claim is: crap, crapadicrap.
    If someone claims he exchanges 996/997 engines twice a week, well... There has been the well known "seal" issue with the 986/996 engines and apparently some early 997 (even with the improved M97 engine) had shown this problem too. But nothing out of the ordinary. I would be the first to know since I have lots of international contacts with people. The internet is a highly interesting but also very dangerous place. You can gain so much information but at the same time also disinformation. Don't trust anybody...not even us.

    Jun 13, 2006 11:38:11 PM

    J.Seven
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: 996/997 engine failures

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    KMM said:
    Known problem with this engine design. Also afflicts Boxster models.



    Please not again the "seal" thing.
    There is no problem with "engine design", there was a problem with the manufacturing process and if it happened a couple of times with the new M97 engine (997 Carrera S/4S models), it is just bad luck.



    RC I'm sure you heard about the porus bloc problem, several engines were replaced due to this problem (oil in the water)
    This was was a problem on the melted bloc process that left some porus inside the bloc, With time, the porus would become bigger and would make a tiny small crak enought to let the oil lubrification system getting in contact with the water cooling system, which lead to oil in water recervoir.

    Sorry, English is no my mother linguage but i think you get the general ideia of this problem.

    J.Seven

    Jun 13, 2006 11:43:12 PM

    chapse
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: 996/997 engine failures

    Great thread, seems a lot of people need replaced engines (for whatever reason) on 996 and boxsters, some needing it on 997, (although 997's have not been out that long), RMS issues seem to not need a new engine, just fixed , others say RMS is just a fallout from a more problematical internal engine issues and a new RMS just masks the problem which whatever the problem is will result in a blown engine anyway sooner or later. Read where the only great difference between a M96 and m97 engine is the RMS (maybe just mask the real problem ? ) Confusion abounds and porsche says nothing , gee for 100K should there not be peace of mind when it comes to the engine

    Jun 14, 2006 12:45:09 AM

    Jim48
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    Reply to: Grant

    Re: 996/997 engine failures

    Quote:
    Grant said:
    My mistake...



    Maybe not your mistake regarding engine codes, Grant, but more likely mine. I just checked my Certificate of Authenticity that I received from PCNA (the only recored I have of the actual engine designation code), and my engine type for a 2006 Carrera S Coupe is listed as "M96/03" with a "G96/00" transmission (the standard 6-speed manual). Either my certificate is wrong, or maybe the engine designations are a lot different than I thought. Maybe I've gotten one of the engines with an RMS rebuild, but in any case, the engine is incredible!!!!!!!

    Jim

    Jun 14, 2006 1:04:12 AM

    911digital Offline
    Veteran
    911digital
    Loc: Staffordshire , United Kingdom
    Posts: 833, Gallery
    Registered on: Dec 2, 2005
    Reply to: chapse

    Re: 996/997 engine failures

    When you think of german engineering and problems this shouldnt be happening, yes all cars suffer faults but a known fault is rather dissapointing when you concider the value of the cars in question.

    engine failures should be long gone, were in 2006 and were living with stuff which isnt lasting, its all part of a money making racket, by manufacturers and governments which are raking in the extra vat and tax from this unnesesary replacement of parts....

    i recently had some firestone tyres on my vr6 they lasted 1200 mile before they were bald! and they were about Pounds63 each so not really cheap..

    some tyres have some type of mileage warranty so i took them back and the bloke must have thought that i'd done burnsout or drag racing on them but they werent ripped they had worn all over shoulder to shoulder..

    he said the owner of the garage wasnt in and i needed to come back on monday to see if he may swap them...

    but i ended up not going back because, i only have my word that i've not done anything to them, but also you could clearly see the tyre hadnt been wheel spun and ripped etc!

    i went to a tyre place my father knows the owner, and i got some good year from him, and to be honest they are pretty damn good concidering i have driven it very hard something which i didnt really do on the other tyres, and they have still worn very good and i have done est about 5000 mile on them or something close....

    i have had brake pads which have lasted various mileages
    so this proves that there are serious quality issues in manufacturing processes..

    i think most are put their on purpose of the manufacturer making more money selling more tyres and pads..

    i'm sure i'm not the only person to encounter this problem..
     
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