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    997TT should be RWD ???

    It's an episode of 5th gear that made me think of that.

    What's the point of having 4wd. I don't think there is on with today's sports car. It might not have been the case with the 996's generation but with the new electronics and settings you can have in a car, it just looks to me that 4wd just add weight and reduce the fun behind the wheel.

    Take the F430 for instance. It's RWD but at the same time, it always leaves you the choice between having some help (snow mode, normal mode) or no help at all (race, oreverything turned off). So my question is: why would you need 4wd on a F430 when the electronic can give all the traction and safety you would need.

    Tiff, from 5th gear, was testing the gallordo SE the other week or so. He said that the ESP could not be turned off completely and that it sucked the fun out of the car. He prefered the F430 all the way.

    Now back to the 997TT. The car has traction control but it can't be turned off completely. My question is: why not have the same sytem the F430 has (wich allows you to turn off all the goodies or ask the car for some help when you need it) instead of the 4wd system that weight a lot. Not to mention that the 997s has already tons of grip.

    It just seems to me that with the systems that exist today, and the F430 is the best exemple, why would you need 4wd except for extreme circumstances like if you live in canada or something. Why not let the customer choose? Porsche could offer a turbo rwd like they offer the 997s in rwd.


    I know some of you will tell me that there's a GT3 available but it's not the same engine (no turbos) and it's not the rival of the F430 or gallardo.

    997tt - awd = 997 GT2

    I suggest that if you read the 997tt brochure about how throughly different the 997tt's awd (and the other electronics) is, it may answer your questions. http://coochas.com/porsche/Resources/997TTbrochure.pdf

    Porsche does have a rwd turbo - the GT2, which is priced in the same range as a F430, but will have substantially more performance.

    Re: 997TT should be RWD ???

    That is comparing apples and oranges. There is a major difference between having 4wd or 2wd in the wet, at higher speeds or in curves. The possibilities that electronic helpers can improve both, does not mean that you are on the same level of safety.
    You might check for yourself the time for arbitrary race tracks for 4wd and 2wd cars for wet conditions. Similarily you might try some driving in the snow with a F430 and a 997TT.
    Moreover, for an average driver a 4wd turbo is much simpler to drive fast, then a F430 or a 2wd Porsche.

    By the way, the turbo with 2WD is the GT2. It is everyones choice whether to take a 997TT or GT2...

    Re: 997TT should be RWD ???

    Quote:
    yah said:
    That is comparing apples and oranges. There is a major difference between having 4wd or 2wd in the wet,



    According to following video clip, one of the major differences seems to be the slippery slope (pun intended) of certitude:

    http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=awd+best+motoring

    Re: 997TT should be RWD ???

    In that Best motoring, whichever car that took the jump had the best chance of winning, the others were blinded...

    Re: 997TT should be RWD ???

    Ask CR (our co-editor in chief) about F430 traction/grip without electronics help and I can tell you, the F430 feels miserable, it is very difficult to control.
    Trust me if I say that AWD is a very good thing to have. Have you never wondered why AWD systems and even certain sorts of traction control systems have been banned from professional racing???
    The "pure" and 2WD thing may work for some people but AWD definetely raises the performance bar to a new level. To drive a AWD car at it's "true" limit is almost impossible.

    Re: 997TT should be RWD ???

    Quote:
    Ask CR (our co-editor in chief) about F430 traction/grip without electronics help and I can tell you, the F430 feels miserable, it is very difficult to control.



    CR's car control abilities are awesome (i've never experienced drifting in a traffic circle before... in a 7 series diesel ) -- so i believe him, but my personal experience is different... my F430 feels great on the limit in CST OFF mode, "fairer" than my GT3 RS.

    No 4WD for me, please.

    Re: 997TT should be RWD ???

    If the turbo was RWD only I'd be shopping for another car.

    Re: 997tt - awd = 997 GT2

    Quote:
    Alan(NJ) said:
    Porsche does have a rwd turbo - the GT2, which is priced in the same range as a F430, but will have substantially more performance.



    Well, not really. The GT2 is dearer than the F430 by quite a margin, but you are right about the performance.

    Re: 997TT should be RWD ???

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Ask CR (our co-editor in chief) about F430 traction/grip without electronics help and I can tell you, the F430 feels miserable, it is very difficult to control.
    Trust me if I say that AWD is a very good thing to have. Have you never wondered why AWD systems and even certain sorts of traction control systems have been banned from professional racing???
    The "pure" and 2WD thing may work for some people but AWD definetely raises the performance bar to a new level. To drive a AWD car at it's "true" limit is almost impossible.

    \

    I think that they invited the wrong guy to testdrive the new GT3

    Re: 997tt - awd = 997 GT2

    Quote:
    Rossi said: ... The GT2 is dearer than the F430 by quite a margin, ...



    Not in the USA!

    Re: 997tt - awd = 997 GT2

    gotta agree--- a gt2 is an exotic car.. but it's still a porsche... while a FERRARI is an exotic LIMITED car. You can see a few porsche's a day, you may never see a Ferrari.

    Re: 997tt - awd = 997 GT2

    The GT2 is definitely a limitted production car, I am betting there are fewer GT2s than f430s or 599 gtbs.

    Re: 997tt - awd = 997 GT2

    Quote:
    trip said:
    The GT2 is definitely a limitted production car, I am betting there are fewer GT2s than f430s or 599 gtbs.



    It's only limited by the number of buyers. Not too many people are willing to $200k for a 911.

    Re: 997tt - awd = 997 GT2

    Quote:
    trip said:
    The GT2 is definitely a limitted production car, I am betting there are fewer GT2s than f430s or 599 gtbs.



    I think Mike was suggesting that versus the F430, in the USA, the GT2 was not "dearer" financially, although indeed, it is "dearer" in production number.

    Re: 997TT should be RWD ???

    Quote:
    RC said:
    To drive a AWD car at it's "true" limit is almost impossible.



    Why?

    Re: 997TT should be RWD ???

    Quote:
    MAVERICK said:
    Quote:
    RC said:
    To drive a AWD car at it's "true" limit is almost impossible.



    Why?



    Because the "limit" is when all four wheels go beyond their respective traction capacities.

    It's really hard to steer with no spare side force to modulate

    Once one exceeds the true "limit" in a perfectly balanced AWD vehicle, ones trajectory reduces to the ballistic.

    Re: 997TT should be RWD ???

    Quote:
    W8MM said:
    Once one exceeds the true "limit" in a perfectly balanced AWD vehicle, ones trajectory reduces to the ballistic.



    Does "perfectly balanced" mean perfectly neutral handling? No understeer nor oversteer?

    Re: 997TT should be RWD ???

    Quote:
    MAVERICK said:
    Quote:
    W8MM said:
    Once one exceeds the true "limit" in a perfectly balanced AWD vehicle, ones trajectory reduces to the ballistic.



    Does "perfectly balanced" mean perfectly neutral handling? No understeer nor oversteer?



    It means that the capabilites of neither the front tires, nor the rear tires, are kept in reserve by the way the car is engineered. I guess that could mean neutral handling, but I'll have to think about it a while.

    Re: 997TT should be RWD ???

    That seems like it would be impossble to achieve in anything but a simulation.

    Re: 997TT should be RWD ???

    Quote:
    trip said:
    That seems like it would be impossble to achieve in anything but a simulation.



    Impossible

    Or, merely difficult for a professional driver?

    One thing is for certain, once one exceeds the capabilities of an AWD car, the driver is merely along for the ride (until the car slows down enough to regain some grip, if there is any roadway then remaining under the car).

    Approaching the true limits of AWD takes one to new areas of an expanded friction circle.

    Re: 997TT should be RWD ???

    I meant it would be impossible to design a car without ANY over or understeer.

     
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