Crown

They are not miles off each other.

2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White

bluelines:

They are not miles off each other.

Exactly...not miles...lightyears. 

I agree however that Audi wasn't courageous enough with the R8. The front lights should have been closer to Lamborghini shape, too much Audi in it and the rear lights the same. Sideline is OK, interior is a bit too "clean" but surprisingly, I kind of like it a lot but that shifting lever is pathetic and the shifting paddles should have been the ones used on the Huracan. Maybe a bit shorter.

I am curious about the facelift but I doubt Audi is getting to change the design radically.

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

You can clearly see that the R8 and TT are closely related. Probably the same steering wheel too 

2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White

bluelines:

You can clearly see that the R8 and TT are closely related. Probably the same steering wheel too 

So are all Audis... 

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

I would certainly never buy a brand new R8: just look at second hand prices. Il mean, who wants to loose 75k over night ? 

I do not understand, however, why they are not able to lease the R8, even if it's for 2 or 3 years.

The V10 engine & the tech are amazing & It's a great product. I guess more buyers are interested in showing off than we might think. The only draw backs I can see are indeed the badge and the first generation R8. So I guess most people don't buy sports cars for what they are but for what other people on the road will think of them.

RC:

bluelines:

You can clearly see that the R8 and TT are closely related. Probably the same steering wheel too 

So are all Audis... 

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

 

The R8 on the right looks strange  Is this the 2018 facelift 

amazon:

I would certainly never buy a brand new R8: just look at second hand prices. Il mean, who wants to loose 75k over night ? 

I do not understand, however, why they are not able to lease the R8, even if it's for 2 or 3 years.

This is actually a very weird situation. Offers are amazing (or were...the last special offer for new cars in stock expired today...I think), there are lots of cars available with little mileage but apparently most of the lease deals fall through (according to my sales guy) or the customers are interested and before signing the contract...they vanish into thin air. 

The V10 engine & the tech are amazing & It's a great product. I guess more buyers are interested in showing off than we might think. The only draw backs I can see are indeed the badge and the first generation R8. So I guess most people don't buy sports cars for what they are but for what other people on the road will think of them.

I'm afraid you're right. My neighbor was seriously interested in the R8, he test-drove it, told me that the car is amazing and much better than his previous 12C. Then, he was thinking about the Huracan or Huracan Performante but when McLaren presented the 720S, he told me "720 hp for this kind of money and that amazing exotic look, I'm sold...". This came from a guy who told me that he will never get a McLaren again. 

One of my friends also loves my R8 and drove in it a couple of times but at some point he asked me recently: "Why didn't you get a Huracan in the first place?" I looked at him and told him "because the R8 is much cheaper and easier to maintain...". His reply was: "But it is an Audi..." (I'm not kidding). He is a BMW guy. 

I guess I have to live with that... I also have to admit that it would be very difficult to live with that if the car wasn't that much fun to drive. The driving is more fun than enjoying what other people think of it. Still, I think that Audi marketed the R8 completely wrong and this is why it has such a "bad" reputation. What is surprising: The reputation as a serious sportscar is not tainted but the reputation as a brand. Definitely a marketing failure and of course the fact that first generation cars got so cheap (some older V8 models entered the 40-60k EUR price range) that certain types of buyers feel very attracted by the first gen R8. Exotic look for little money and they tune these cars in a way that my eyes sometimes hurt. This reflects on used cars and on the new generation as well. Audi should have put a lid here, for the sake of the R8 brand. Look at Porsche...they succeeded in keeping even older 911 pretty "safe" from riceboy tuning. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

MKSGR:

RC:

bluelines:

You can clearly see that the R8 and TT are closely related. Probably the same steering wheel too 

So are all Audis... 

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

 

The R8 on the right looks strange  Is this the 2018 facelift 

992 Turbo S mule... 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

RC:

amazon:

I would certainly never buy a brand new R8: just look at second hand prices. Il mean, who wants to loose 75k over night ? 

I do not understand, however, why they are not able to lease the R8, even if it's for 2 or 3 years.

This is actually a very weird situation. Offers are amazing (or were...the last special offer for new cars in stock expired today...I think), there are lots of cars available with little mileage but apparently most of the lease deals fall through (according to my sales guy) or the customers are interested and before signing the contract...they vanish into thin air. 

The V10 engine & the tech are amazing & It's a great product. I guess more buyers are interested in showing off than we might think. The only draw backs I can see are indeed the badge and the first generation R8. So I guess most people don't buy sports cars for what they are but for what other people on the road will think of them.

I'm afraid you're right. My neighbor was seriously interested in the R8, he test-drove it, told me that the car is amazing and much better than his previous 12C. Then, he was thinking about the Huracan or Huracan Performante but when McLaren presented the 720S, he told me "720 hp for this kind of money and that amazing exotic look, I'm sold...". This came from a guy who told me that he will never get a McLaren again. 

One of my friends also loves my R8 and drove in it a couple of times but at some point he asked me recently: "Why didn't you get a Huracan in the first place?" I looked at him and told him "because the R8 is much cheaper and easier to maintain...". His reply was: "But it is an Audi..." (I'm not kidding). He is a BMW guy. 

I guess I have to live with that... I also have to admit that it would be very difficult to live with that if the car wasn't that much fun to drive. The driving is more fun than enjoying what other people think of it. Still, I think that Audi marketed the R8 completely wrong and this is why it has such a "bad" reputation. What is surprising: The reputation as a serious sportscar is not tainted but the reputation as a brand. Definitely a marketing failure and of course the fact that first generation cars got so cheap (some older V8 models entered the 40-60k EUR price range) that certain types of buyers feel very attracted by the first gen R8. Exotic look for little money and they tune these cars in a way that my eyes sometimes hurt. This reflects on used cars and on the new generation as well. Audi should have put a lid here, for the sake of the R8 brand. Look at Porsche...they succeeded in keeping even older 911 pretty "safe" from riceboy tuning. 

I don't think it's a marketing problem. It's a problem of value.

Audi can do whatever they want, its core business is the A1, A3 and A4. So anyone can actually buy a decent looking Audi (new or almost new) for 20 - 25K.  In the end, an Audi has become a normal car for normal people, even though it was at some point a so called luxury car maker. The same can be applied for BMW and mercedes. The 1-series and A-class killed them as luxury car brands.

Porsche is following the same trend. The Boxster, Cayenne and now the Macan are making the brand a lot more accessible than it used to be. The second hand market is now flooded with fist generation cayenne at less than 15k. Porsche should really be careful because the resale value of the 991 is not that great. 70K or 80k for a 2013 exemplar ? Come on. The first generation 991 was priced new with some options at 140k. 

Nowadays, you are loosing big on Porsches and the value is not going to improve once the used Macans hit the  market in a few years. In the future, I think Porsche is going to have more and more problems moving cars worth 200K. Time will tell.

For some reason, the 911's prices (the good one) seem to never dip under 60K. Even the 996's price is holding its lines nowadays at 50K. That's saving Porsche, at least for the moment.

Still, it has already become pure madness to buy a Panamera or a cayenne for 200K. Comments that are made by users on the forum are proving it. And the reason is simple: in a few years, the market is going to flooded with 1st gen panameras and 2nd gen cayennes ... and it's going to get ugly. 

I guess my point is that Audi should have never entered the 200K market. In other words, Audi should not produce a car with a V10 because it's just impossible to produce a V10 car for a reasonable price (120k). 

I agree...the R8 should have never made it...as an Audi. It should have been the 960 everyone is looking forward to but we all know that it didn't happen and the reason behind it (neither VW Group nor Porsche were at fault here, the Huracan/R8 were already in development and stopping it would have costed a fortune). In retrospect, if VW Group/Audi knew what would happen with the second gen R8, maybe they would have changed their decision.

In the end, maybe only the Huracan and the 960 will survive this...makes sense. I feel sad about the V10 engine though but we all know that 5.2 V10 engines have no place in our world anymore. In a couple of years, the same fate will hit the V12 engines and later probably also the V8 engines. Sad but unavoidable.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

RC:

I agree...the R8 should have never made it...as an Audi. It should have been the 960 everyone is looking forward to but we all know that it didn't happen and the reason behind it (neither VW Group nor Porsche were at fault here, the Huracan/R8 were already in development and stopping it would have costed a fortune). In retrospect, if VW Group/Audi knew what would happen with the second gen R8, maybe they would have changed their decision.

In the end, maybe only the Huracan and the 960 will survive this...makes sense. I feel sad about the V10 engine though but we all know that 5.2 V10 engines have no place in our world anymore. In a couple of years, the same fate will hit the V12 engines and later probably also the V8 engines. Sad but unavoidable.

Don't be sad ! In some way, it's good for those who love cars and lease (or don't care much about value or resale value).

You have a car with a very rare V10 engine for the price of a car that should have only been equipped from the start with a V6. Audi is probably loosing money on this one. I think that's why the have decided to drop the V10 for the 2nd gen (which is a very wise decision).

Christian, I think it's not that the brand is tainted, or that it is "just an audi", but if people are going to spend supercar money on something that pretends to be a supercar, then people don't think of audi, and they are afraid that other people will perceive it as an audi. Same with the Nissan GTR... it may be an amazing car, but in the end it is still a Nissan. Lexus LFA, etc.

When people hear audi, they think of A3-A8 or RS models, but that's it. They don't see it as a supercar brand.

Porsche, separates Le Mans from Le Boys

I am sad about one thing only: Once my lease runs out, I have to think about buying the car...or not.

The problem here is: I am pretty sure there will be tons of used V10 on the market I could choose from at attractive prices (unless the V10 will be in high demand once they stop producing it but I doubt it) but I probably couldn't get "mine".

The remaining (calculated) value will be surely much higher than the market prices at that time in three years. If I am lucky and my (used) R8 won't sell, I could get it cheaper from my dealer after a while. I want exactly "my" car, so it would be sad if I've driven this car for four years and then I'll have to choose a different one (if I want to stick with the V10) because it would be much cheaper. I "know" my car but I wouldn't "know" the other one. Bummer. 

My wife says I will be back to Porsche once a 960 is on the market but I'm not so sure. Porsche prices go up and up and I don't know how emotional the experience in a 960 would be if they don't get the engine/exhaust sound right. 

Time will tell...

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

RC:

Here is that stupidity Pirelli does...two PZero...now guess which one is the new PZ4.  

(psst...it is the left one ).

This is a back to back advertisement from the Pirelli website, I didn't put the images next to each other myself.

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

 

Hmm, the left one is the old PZero, the new one is actually on the right 

My F12, Huracan and 911R all comes with the old PZeros and they all looked like the tire on the left. 

Sorry...this happens when you work in your business and write on RT at the same time...  

Yes, of course...the PZ4 is the right one. 

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

RC, I dont think you will buy back your car, there will be something better that tickles your sense by then...

R8 failures?

- same mildly boring design as the first gen
- mildly boring interior
- no rear seats
- castrated spider version (no plus)
- Audi badge
- MSRP 30% too high as shown by cheap leases
- terrible resale values
- too many ricer liveries with lots of contrasting colors and cheap black wheels
- performance not special enough in today's landscape (think Performante and McLaren)
 

That's probably enough to eclipse the fantastic chassis and V10 engine. You can buy a slightly used 488 or California T and 3 years down the road it will cost you the same or less...

SciFrog:

RC, I dont think you will buy back your car, there will be something better that tickles your sense by then...

R8 failures?

- same mildly boring design as the first gen

Actually, I like how the R8 looks. 

- mildly boring interior

I prefer to call it "clean". I actually like it a lot but I also love the interior of the new Huracan Performance with that composite carbon material stuff.

- no rear seats

Not needed but I get your point.

- castrated spider version (no plus)

Plus is coming this June to Germany (later to other markets I assume).

- Audi badge

True.

- MSRP 30% too high as shown by cheap leases

Probably true but the R8 is basically a Huracan in Audi disguise and the Huracan is already 13k EUR more expensive (base price). 

- terrible resale values

True.

- too many ricer liveries with lots of contrasting colors and cheap black wheels

Mostly first generation but second generation buyers, especially in the US, seem to have this tendency too.

- performance not special enough in today's landscape (think Performante and McLaren)

Similar performance as 991.2 Turbo S, Huracan, 12C, 458 Speciale...not that bad in my opinion but like Porsche with the 911 Turbo S, they didn't really made an effort, I agree. 

That's probably enough to eclipse the fantastic chassis and V10 engine. You can buy a slightly used 488 or California T and 3 years down the road it will cost you the same or less...

No, it isn't. I would never exchange the R8 vs. a 488 or California T. I could get weak when it comes to a Huracan Performante or a facelifted Aventador SV (if it really gets a DCT but I doubt it).

The truth is however: My R8 is a bargain (lease) for what it offers, so money played a huge role in my decision, no doubt about it. Not sure I could really afford a Huracan for example, which has a much higher lease and maintenance cost.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

For the price you paid and the low key factor your were looking for the R8 is perfect. I think many R8 tire kickers just end up with a 911.

SciFrog:

For the price you paid and the low key factor your were looking for the R8 is perfect. I think many R8 tire kickers just end up with a 911.

I know but I said it before...I would have preferred a 960. I am a Porsche guy. 

Also, after owning the R8 now, I am more into super sports cars than sport cars. The next pick will be very difficult because I doubt I am going to be that lucky...financially. The 960 won't be a bargain (unless I pick a period with interesting lease offers), same goes to other brands.

Probably another reason why I want to stick to the R8.  Relatively cheap, easy to maintain, lots of fun...difficult to beat right now.

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

MKSGR:

RC:

 

Stupid question: Could you look at your PZero (991.2 Turbo S Cab) and tell me if there is a "PZ4" marking anywhere? No hurry.

 

Could not find "PZ4" just "E4" (see attachment) - hope this helps!

RC:

sfo:

R8s not selling in the UK either .. dealers have lots in stock.

A sales guy told me an interesting story yesterday: Lots of potential customers come, look at the car, test-drive it and are ready to sign the contract. Then, they just disappear into thin air. Serious customers, business men, doctors, lawyers... He (sales guy) cannot tell why, this is super weird. Also, many lease contracts don't go through (VW Leasing) and last but not least, there seems to be a serious issue with car insurance (full coverage) because many insurances don't want to offer coverage for the car (rumor indicates that a side impact at the "right"angle could total the car because of that carbon composite material used, meaning that the insurance has to pay up big bucks).

Personally, I believe that Audi markets the car wrong and in many different wrong ways. Also, with the direct competitor 911 Turbo S (Germany), the Audi price is too high for what the car offers visually (too Audi-like). The tech is great, the engine is amazing but apparently this isn't enough nowadays in this class. 

Last but not least, there are older R8 and their owners which have been destroying the reputation of the R8. Cars like these ones for example... 

 

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

 

It seems there is no market for a Huracan chassis with TT looks...Who could have known...??

I wonder how the market will be for luxury items when rates go back to 5%....

RC I think it's good that you're focused on an engaging driving experience rather than branding or others' perception. You've got to drive Your car for your reasons.

mcdelaug:

RC I think it's good that you're focused on an engaging driving experience rather than branding or others' perception. You've got to drive Your car for your reasons.

True but I am a car guy and I think a lot about this and that and analyze everything to death.  

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

Thanks, Markus. This is weird that there is no PZ4, also looks like a different tread pattern (similar to the old one).

 Checked the tire again for every single marking and there is indeed nothing...no PZ4. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

wantone:

It seems there is no market for a Huracan chassis with TT looks...Who could have known...??

TT looks? I still don't understand where people get that.  I guess this is the usual "tease RC" routine here on RT?  Well, at least I am driving a Huracan with TT looks...and not a taxi. 

I wonder how the market will be for luxury items when rates go back to 5%....

True, lease offers will be much worse, financing anyway, so yes...luxury items market will drop indeed. Probably a reason why there is no hurry in increasing rates and inflation just started to drop a little bit again in the Eurozone, so rate hikes are not very likely anytime soon. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

You could get the new one but without Audi R8 specification - the load index is the same

AM

The new one is the PZ4...and it already exists with R01 Audi specification.  Actually, this is the tire I already had on my car and the tire I am getting now again. No wonder I was so happy with this tire, I liked it a lot.

Cars before March 2016 production apparently got the "old" PZero (still with R01 rating). Mine is an April 2016 production. Early production cars used the PZero with "L" rating (Lamborghini). Quite confusing.

The example with the new Michelin PS4S shows why it is not a good idea to go for the original tire on the R8 instead of the manufacturer OEM version.

Michelin will bring a PS4S in R01 rating for the R8 and they had to change to a stiffer sidewall for the R8 according to someone who had joined the certification process. The original PS4S is not recommended for the R8!

Continental will also offer a SportContact6 soon in R01 flavor...

Oh, the new "colored" PZero are also available now for the R8 (and many other sports cars). Cost for four tires is around 3000 EUR. 

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

I believe one of the reasons is insurance. People who might be able to afford that awesome lease likely find out prior to purchase how much insurance will be and back away.  At that price point those costs matter and I recall that the R8 is easily totaled. 

MKSGR:

MKSGR:

RC:

 

Stupid question: Could you look at your PZero (991.2 Turbo S Cab) and tell me if there is a "PZ4" marking anywhere? No hurry.

 

Could not find "PZ4" just "E4" (see attachment) - hope this helps!

That's definitely the old PZero and not the new PZ4!

Tread pattern is the giveaway.

Whoopsy:

MKSGR:

MKSGR:

RC:

 

Stupid question: Could you look at your PZero (991.2 Turbo S Cab) and tell me if there is a "PZ4" marking anywhere? No hurry.

 

Could not find "PZ4" just "E4" (see attachment) - hope this helps!

 

That's definitely the old PZero and not the new PZ4!

Tread pattern is the giveaway.

There is only one PZero Spec for the 991.2 turbo. This car was delivered in March 2016. Should be the latest Porsche spec  Maybe they do a different version for Porsche?