Crown

RC, you're at the bleeding edge of being a 3% enthusiast.

mcdelaug:

RC, you're at the bleeding edge of being a 3% enthusiast.

  I am a stickler, I know. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

Regarding the PZero tires, things are getting even more interesting: Apparently early R8 V10 Plus delivered in 2015, were equipped from the factory with PZero with "L" classification (Lamborghini).  Things really get interesting now. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

RC:

DaveGordon:

Do the steel belts provide much grip on the road? I'm curious.

I think they make cool sparks!  

RC:

Regarding the PZero tires, things are getting even more interesting: Apparently early R8 V10 Plus delivered in 2015, were equipped from the factory with PZero with "L" classification (Lamborghini).  Things really get interesting now. 

That should please you RC. One small part of your car is a Lamborghini and you are thereby one small step closer to a Huracane....

The farmer:

RC:

Regarding the PZero tires, things are getting even more interesting: Apparently early R8 V10 Plus delivered in 2015, were equipped from the factory with PZero with "L" classification (Lamborghini).  Things really get interesting now. 

That should please you RC. One small part of your car is a Lamborghini and you are thereby one small step closer to a Huracane....

 Well, over 70% of my car is actually a Huracan, so...  

I find out what is going on now: 

Very early R8 were delivered with PZero and L classification. Shortly after, the PZero R01 (Audi classification) was available. This happened in 2015. In 2016, Pirelli put the new PZero generation on the market, the same tire used for the 991.2 Turbo S facelift in N1 flavor.  Audi decided to use the new PZ4 PZero for the R8, so they started to equip all cars produced after March 2016 with the new PZ4 version of the PZero. Now I know why I always loved the PZero on my R8, it is an amazing tire. 

I never noticed the PZ4 marking on my tires until now, after I got more involved with this thing.

The older PZero R01 has a different compound mixture and tread profile.

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

RC:

The farmer:

RC:

Regarding the PZero tires, things are getting even more interesting: Apparently early R8 V10 Plus delivered in 2015, were equipped from the factory with PZero with "L" classification (Lamborghini).  Things really get interesting now. 

That should please you RC. One small part of your car is a Lamborghini and you are thereby one small step closer to a Huracane....

 Well, over 70% of my car is actually a Huracan, so...  

 

RC:

The farmer:

RC:

Regarding the PZero tires, things are getting even more interesting: Apparently early R8 V10 Plus delivered in 2015, were equipped from the factory with PZero with "L" classification (Lamborghini).  Things really get interesting now. 

That should please you RC. One small part of your car is a Lamborghini and you are thereby one small step closer to a Huracane....

 Well, over 70% of my car is actually a Huracan, so...  

I find out what is going on now: 

Very early R8 were delivered with PZero and L classification. Shortly after, the PZero R01 (Audi classification) was available. This happened in 2015. In 2016, Pirelli put the new PZero generation on the market, the same tire used for the 991.2 Turbo S facelift in N1 flavor.  Audi decided to use the new PZ4 PZero for the R8, so they started to equip all cars produced after March 2016 with the new PZ4 version of the PZero. Now I know why I always loved the PZero on my R8, it is an amazing tire. 

I never noticed the PZ4 marking on my tires until now, after I got more involved with this thing.

The older PZero R01 has a different compound mixture and tread profile.

 

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

 

One more question  Does this mean the PZero on the turbo and the R8 are the same now? 

Yes. Same PZero generation. Unfortunately, all those reviews done with the PZero in magazines are with the first generation. The new generation is only available on cars after March 2016 production and has a PZ4 marking on the sidewall. All press cars were manufactured in 2015.

Also interesting: The Trofeo R (available in R8 sizes but with L classification) could be used for the R8 as well. Would be interesting.

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

RC:

Yes. Same PZero generation. Unfortunately, all those reviews done with the PZero in magazines are with the first generation. The new generation is only available on cars after March 2016 production and has a PZ4 marking on the sidewall. All press cars were manufactured in 2015.

Also interesting: The Trofeo R (available in R8 sizes but with L classification) could be used for the R8 as well. Would be interesting.

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

 

That is probably the reason why most V10 plus tests where done on Cup tires 

MKSGR:

RC:

Yes. Same PZero generation. Unfortunately, all those reviews done with the PZero in magazines are with the first generation. The new generation is only available on cars after March 2016 production and has a PZ4 marking on the sidewall. All press cars were manufactured in 2015.

Also interesting: The Trofeo R (available in R8 sizes but with L classification) could be used for the R8 as well. Would be interesting.

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

 

That is probably the reason why most V10 plus tests where done on Cup tires 

Indeed but there is a clear team order in the VW Group: The R8 cannot be faster than the Huracan. Never. Same goes to the 911 Turbo S apparently.  Probably the reason why the R8 in the Supertest had 30 hp less and achieved different acceleration times than in any other review published by AMS or any other publication. Sport Auto should have redone the testing but...  The Huracan was on Trofeo R...figures. 

Personally, I don't care. The Huracan and the R8 are basically the same cars regarding performance and I could even use the Trofeo R from the Huracan for my R8 (just got a quote from my Audi dealer....4000 EUR for the Trofeo R for my R8...not thanks, the PZ4 costs me 1200 EUR only, incl. a tire damage warranty for any, even self-inflected, damages). Whoever wants to track the R8 though, there is a good tire alternative. The Cup 2 R01 is a good track tire...for a few rounds but once if passes 80°C...good-bye stickiness. Two or three rounds on a longer track and the tire is done. Not a very good choice. 

I am happy the new PZ4 is available for my R8. I really like this tire a lot and the Audi R01 version also seems to work well in rain. The tire is very tire pressure sensitive though: A guy from Audi Sport suggested I use 2.4 bar front and rear, creating a very neutral drive behavior.  I actually like 2.4 front and 2.2 rear more because it creates a very mild understeer at the limit only, which prevents me from doing stupid things.  This is unfortunately a tire pressure which is only suitable under 270 kph. I decided to keep it under 270 kph on the Autobahn, unless we do some group driving with faster speeds (but this happens very very seldom, we usually go passes or country roads). The benefit of the lower tire pressure outweighs  the inconvenience of going over 270 kph. It is unbelievable how the R8 handles with 2.4 front and 2.2 rear in comparison to the usual 2.7 and 2.3 for speeds over 270 kph (understeer is still mild but is present earlier). "Worst" tire pressure is the one for full load and over 270 kph: 3.4 bar front and 2.8 bar rear. Car handles like on raw eggs. Still very fast in curves but the limit is less predictable and when the R8 "comes", it "comes" good, even in Dynamic mode (which still has the ESP fully working). In a best case scenario, the ESP jumps in so hard that you loose speed (it is barely noticeable though, very good setup, similar to Porsche).

I also noticed that the R8 loves a clean line and benefits from driving calm and without major "throwing" into curves. If you keep it calm and follow a clean line, you can be so fast, it is scary. Your 991 Turbo S is more forgiving in curves, which proves that Audi engineers didn't really know what they want (I think). For a fast GT, it is too unforgiving and for a raw track car, it is too comfortable.  Keep in mind that the R8 has no rear wheel steering or active aerodynamics. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

So the R8 Arrived! Top car drive much easier compared to my "old" R8 amazing gearbox shits faster and smoother compared to the 911 Turbo. But both great cars!

Nice pair!

Congrats!  Great looking R8! 

2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White

JR-550:

So the R8 Arrived! Top car drive much easier compared to my "old" R8 amazing gearbox shits faster and smoother compared to the 911 Turbo. But both great cars!

Nice pair!

I hope it shifts faster, nothing related to any brown stuff going anywhere... 
But wow, nice, NICE stable you got there! Congrates mate!

Porsche, separates Le Mans from Le Boys

Black rims ! You car is definitively faster then RC ' s 

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 

Gnil:

Black rims ! You car is definitively faster then RC ' s 

2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White

bluelines:

Gnil:

Black rims ! You car is definitively faster then RC ' s 

All I can say is, what a spec!. Its got that ""Hairy Chest Factor""  ....

throt

"I Have Done It!".

991 GT3 pick up in October 2014.

Rennteam Hairy Chest Advisor.

Gnil:

Black rims ! You car is definitively faster then RC ' s 

No rear wing = slower. 
 

Btw: Wanted to get my rims painted in black (they look amazing on the R8 in my opinion), also because I get new tires, so the moment would have been perfect but decided against them because of the lease. Lease contract demands return in same condition (incl. rims) and if I paint them black now (I planned to do it in the same color as Audi does), I have to have them painted back to titanium before I return the car. Not worth it, so I keep them in titanium. Sales guy said they would probably accept it in black as well (if it is the same OEM color) but I didn't want to risk it. The painting (powder coating) requires a special process and costs around 1000 EUR in the OEM color with the same "shine". So 1000 now and 1000 when I return the car, not worth it. I always liked the titanium color but thought that black is perfect. Will see how I get along with titanium for another year and if I don't like it, I can paint them in black. Maybe I add Trofeo R tires in the process.  (not really, saw them yesterday and they barely have profile, a Huracan customer had to exchange them after only 5000 km...moderate road driving only according to him ). Cost is over 4000 EUR for the set, no thanks (they are difficult to get in Huracan size and flavor).

Also interesting: I told you that story with the three different PZero tires for the new R8 ("L", "R01" and PZ4 "R01"). Now my mechanic showed me an official memo from Audi referring to this "problem" and that these tires, although all three approved for the R8, cannot be mixed. Apparently there were some issues...I am not surprised. Audi asked dealers to offer the PZ4 PZero R01 exclusively, no more older tires.  The PZ4 is the same PZero generation used on the 991.2 Turbo S (facelift).

Also got some more (updated) interesting information on the R8 and a possible facelift:

1. R8 sales are very weak, Audi is aware of that but doesn't really know why (my take on this: wrong marketing, also because most people I talk to have no clue that this car has nothing to do with the old one, even the engine is basically a new construction; the new one also looks almost like the old one, especially directly viewed from the front...see photos I posted).

2. R8 facelift may come next year already (same time as Huracan facelift). More differentiation to the first R8 generation visually but also...very likely...no more V10 engine.  Only a V6 Biturbo, which may be introduced this summer/autumn already and a new V8 Biturbo in 2018, which could also be introduced for the Huracan, pushing power to over 650 hp). I heard a similar rumor before but didn't think that this change could happen with the facelift already. 

3. R8 V10 Plus Spyder is coming but probably only to get rid of the excess V10 engines...

4. Huracan more successful than R8 right now in Germany...(which surprises many since Lamborghini lease offers and rebates are not even close to the generous Audi offers).

5. Currently, Audi development is almost fully occupied with Diesel development because of the scandal. Apparently they moved lots of engineers to the Diesel department to make sure that the new Diesels are "bulletproof" (in the sense that they respect all laws and regulations to a full extent). Also a reason why there are currently no bugfixes or updates for the R8, like they usually do with all cars during a production cycle, Audi has switched priorities. Thanks god I have no issues with my car. 

Just thought I'd share this stuff with you...

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

R8s not selling in the UK either .. dealers have lots in stock.

sfo:

R8s not selling in the UK either .. dealers have lots in stock.

A sales guy told me an interesting story yesterday: Lots of potential customers come, look at the car, test-drive it and are ready to sign the contract. Then, they just disappear into thin air. Serious customers, business men, doctors, lawyers... He (sales guy) cannot tell why, this is super weird. Also, many lease contracts don't go through (VW Leasing) and last but not least, there seems to be a serious issue with car insurance (full coverage) because many insurances don't want to offer coverage for the car (rumor indicates that a side impact at the "right"angle could total the car because of that carbon composite material used, meaning that the insurance has to pay up big bucks).

Personally, I believe that Audi markets the car wrong and in many different wrong ways. Also, with the direct competitor 911 Turbo S (Germany), the Audi price is too high for what the car offers visually (too Audi-like). The tech is great, the engine is amazing but apparently this isn't enough nowadays in this class. 

Last but not least, there are older R8 and their owners which have been destroying the reputation of the R8. Cars like these ones for example... 

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

RC:

 

 

 

These pictures show how much better the new R8 looks compared to the previous model 

It does but a bit more differentiation would have helped a lot. 

Also, the worst part is that many think that the second gen R8 is a...facelift. 

Both cars are on winter wheels btw..

Stupid question: Could you look at your PZero (991.2 Turbo S Cab) and tell me if there is a "PZ4" marking anywhere? No hurry.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

The new R8 looks like a facelift, even to a person who is interested in cars . It is hardly any different, except for a few angles .  Design wants to be too consensual . They should of made it looks much different , but they probably just do what they do with the A3. A4 A6 ...... not rock the boat .

The older generation is , over here, also now the favorite cars of the people who used to buy the third hands MB 500 , BMW 7 , Audi Q7 ....... People mostly for the former Yugoslavia ( no offense here to any RT member's   )

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 

Gnil:

The new R8 looks like a facelift, even to a person who is interested in cars . It is hardly any different, except for a few angles .  Design wants to be too consensual . They should of made it looks much different , but they probably just do what they do with the A3. A4 A6 ...... not rock the boat .

The older generation is , over here, also now the favorite cars of the people who used to buy the third hands MB 500 , BMW 7 , Audi Q7 ....... People mostly for the former Yugoslavia ( no offense here to any RT member's   )

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

RC:

 

Stupid question: Could you look at your PZero (991.2 Turbo S Cab) and tell me if there is a "PZ4" marking anywhere? No hurry.

Funny, there are even two versions of the PZero PZ4...a Luxury Saloon version and a Sports Car version. 

Luckily, there is no Luxury Saloon version in R8 tire size/R01 rating but why does Pirelli do this crap? 

I get it, they want to market the PZero brand but it gets way too confusing.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

Problem for R8 is that it is too expensive .. especially when the TT which looks like it is £100k cheaper

sfo:

Problem for R8 is that it is too expensive .. especially when the TT which looks like it is £100k cheaper

TT and R8 look similar? Seriously? Not even close (and I saw both back to back at my dealer). 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

Here is that stupidity Pirelli does...two PZero...now guess which one is the new PZ4.  

(psst...it is the left one ).

This is a back to back advertisement from the Pirelli website, I didn't put the images next to each other myself.

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

RC:

sfo:

Problem for R8 is that it is too expensive .. especially when the TT which looks like it is £100k cheaper

TT and R8 look similar? Seriously? Not even close (and I saw both back to back at my dealer). 

same basic shape