Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: PSE mod, my comments - Page2

May 14, 2006 7:28:01 PM

sterio: Junior; Loc: sweden; Posts: 95, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 16, 2004

PSE mod, my comments

This is my Sound comments on my 997 S with PSE

I have done the PSE mod forth and back on my 997 S and found that when dissconecting the electric plug you also dissconect the valve to the Helmhotz resonator. What happens is you miss that nice high pith sound above 5500rpm when the intake valve open/close.

My conclusion is that the exhaust sounds a little better when doing the PSE mod but you miss the nice intake sound, so I let the plug stay in and get the best of both worlds!!

I didnt notice this at first, so some of you with 997 S and PSE mod might be missing this Helmholtz feature with out knowing it!

When crusing around I like the PSE exhaust sound.
But the most thrilling sound is above 5500rpm, and that is from the intake!

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May 14, 2006 8:30:10 PM

juankimalo: Co-Pilot; Loc: Madrid Spain , Spain; Posts: 159, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 7, 2004; Reply to: sterio

Re: PSE mod, my comments

Do you think it would be possible to make same mod like the 996 model? I mean to cut the PSE relay.
http://www.renntech.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=2470

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May 14, 2006 9:42:07 PM

Gnil: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: VD, Switzerland , Switzerland; Posts: 14184, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 11, 2005; Reply to: sterio

Re: PSE mod, my comments

Quote:
sterio said:
But the most thrilling sound is above 5500rpm, and that is from the intake!

Exactly!!!!!

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May 14, 2006 10:51:02 PM

Orient Express: Co-Pilot; Loc: San Francisco Bay Area; Posts: 222, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 31, 2002; Reply to: juankimalo

Re: PSE mod, my comments

Quote:
juankimalo said:
Do you think it would be possible to make same mod like the 996 model? I mean to cut the PSE relay.

No, because the 997's PSE baffle control is done from the DME, not from an analog speed sensor circuit. The 997 does not have the relay as in the 996.

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May 15, 2006 5:41:25 AM

Mike S: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Somewhere , Taiwan; Posts: 7720, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 3, 2005; Reply to: Orient Express

Re: PSE mod, my comments

I don't want to have my car running at 5500rpm all the time to hear a little extra

The PSE mod sounds good even at low rpms where as with the hose connected it is still loud but not nearly as loud with the hose unplugged.

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May 15, 2006 7:49:59 AM

Alex_997TT: Rennteam Master; Loc: Reading , United Kingdom; Posts: 3320, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 20, 2005; Reply to: sterio

Re: PSE mod, my comments

As far as I am aware, there are 3 variations on the PSE hack out there:

Are you saying that all methods above you lose the sound of the Helmhotz resonator? Or just for the last plug-disconnect method?

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May 15, 2006 8:20:49 AM

Mike S: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Somewhere , Taiwan; Posts: 7720, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 3, 2005; Reply to: Alex_997TT

Re: PSE mod, my comments

Quote:
Alex (UK) said:
As far as I am aware, there are 3 variations on the PSE hack out there:

[1]Disconnect the bottom tube
[2]Disconnect the side tube
[3]Disconnect the electric orange/brown plug

Are you saying that all methods above you lose the sound of the Helmhotz resonator? Or just for the last plug-disconnect method?

I used mod no. 1 - was not aware of the "other" methods?

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May 15, 2006 8:33:38 AM

Alex_997TT: Rennteam Master; Loc: Reading , United Kingdom; Posts: 3320, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 20, 2005; Reply to: Mike S

Re: PSE mod, my comments

Well #2 is supposed to be exactly the same as #1, and there is some debate over what exactly #3 results in. It definitely achieves the hack but there is a question over what else it affects.

From his post sterio seems to be testing out method #3, hence my question to try and see if this a general hack issue or a specific method one.

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May 15, 2006 9:41:29 AM

sterio: Junior; Loc: sweden; Posts: 95, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 16, 2004; Reply to: Alex_997TT

Re: PSE mod, my comments

Yes, I have only tried mod 3. If the other mods do nothing to the electric Helmhotz valve, I dont know.

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May 15, 2006 10:13:27 AM

Futch: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: EU , United Kingdom; Posts: 4759, Gallery; Registered on: May 14, 2002; Reply to: sterio

Re: PSE mod, my comments

Interesting, didn't know that.
I don't have the mod because I can't find the plubg with my X51 option anyway.
But I'm very happy the way it is.
I keep the exhaust in quiet mode in town and when driving fast in sport mode, the exhaust is on PSE ON anyway because I'm above 80 km/h.
PSE is also throttle input dependant, if I accelerate slowly from standstill in sport mode, PSE stays on all the way.

Interesting comment regarding Helmholtz resonator Sterio.

I agree, from inside the car, my favorite noise is in quiet mode, once you pass 5k rpm, very high pitch and race like!

Superb and more refined than sport exhaust IMO.

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May 15, 2006 10:24:50 AM

Alex_997TT: Rennteam Master; Loc: Reading , United Kingdom; Posts: 3320, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 20, 2005; Reply to: sterio

Re: PSE mod, my comments

Cool, so next we need to work out whether anyone with the PSE tube disconnect hack methods #1 or #2 can hear the Helmhotz resonator when it kicks in

I will try to have a play this weekend as I have hack #2 in place currently...

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May 15, 2006 1:40:48 PM

jeffbco: Pilot; Loc: Denver; Posts: 494, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 18, 2006; Reply to: Alex_997TT

Re: PSE mod, my comments

I didn't think there was any electrical or vacuum connection related to the helmholz resonator. I thought it was just mechanical. Can someone verify? Thanks.

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May 15, 2006 4:44:39 PM

GA997S: Veteran; Loc: Athens, Georgia, USA; Posts: 1059, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 19, 2005; Reply to: sterio

Re: PSE mod, my comments

I'm not sure I can tell a difference. I did the electrical plug disconnect mod about 10,000 miles ago. This morning I plugged it back in and even outside of the "cut-out", pse ON sounded a little weaker than with the mod. I thought (I'm sure others too) that pse cut back in around 5500 but you say it's the HR. Whatever the case, I think it sounds great either way but I'll opt to not have the interruption in sound. I realized today that I'm dependant on pse at low rpm for audio feedback.

Are you sure the HR is disabled with the mod?

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May 15, 2006 5:32:06 PM

Paul S in TX: Co-Pilot; Loc:; Posts: 259, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 20, 2002; Reply to: Futch

Re: PSE mod, my comments

Quote:
Fanch said:
Interesting, didn't know that.
I don't have the mod because I can't find the plubg with my X51 option anyway.
But I'm very happy the way it is.
I keep the exhaust in quiet mode in town and when driving fast in sport mode, the exhaust is on PSE ON anyway because I'm above 80 km/h.
PSE is also throttle input dependant, if I accelerate slowly from standstill in sport mode, PSE stays on all the way.

Interesting comment regarding Helmholtz resonator Sterio.

I agree, from inside the car, my favorite noise is in quiet mode, once you pass 5k rpm, very high pitch and race like!

Superb and more refined than sport exhaust IMO.

Fanch, on X51 look on the left side of the engine--it sits between the engine and X51's unique aluminum intake manifold. A real bugger to see since it's much futher back in the engine compartment.

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May 15, 2006 9:35:43 PM

AshD: Junior; Loc:; Posts: 53, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 18, 2004; Reply to: Paul S in TX

Re: PSE mod, my comments

All,

I've just picked up my new C2S with PSE and keen to do one of teh three options, what have any of you done regarding putting 'bungs' in the end of the hoses in mod #1 / #2 and caps / protectors over the connectors for mod #3 - i.e. what did you do, where can you get them, etc. - i want to do the mode, but want to protect the connections / tubes from dirt, etc.

Thanks in advance, Ash

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May 15, 2006 9:41:38 PM

Alex_997TT: Rennteam Master; Loc: Reading , United Kingdom; Posts: 3320, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 20, 2005; Reply to: AshD

Re: PSE mod, my comments

See my recent post: http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat...rt=1#Post225081

I have method #2, my OPC *gave* me the rubber cap and the long plastic hollow tube.

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May 16, 2006 6:43:09 AM

Gnil: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: VD, Switzerland , Switzerland; Posts: 14184, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 11, 2005; Reply to: Alex_997TT

Re: PSE mod, my comments

Don't forget method 4 !!!!!

Install an extra switch . I have done this mod so I can have both worlds!!
When the extra switch is on , I suppose it is like when the electric plug is pulled off.
When switch off, it is like stock.

I have tried to listen carefully yesterday to the different sound when switch on ( like plug of) and when the normal sports mode activates the PSE, above 5500 ... they do actually sound the same to me. The resonator must be on.

But, the best sound is above 5500 with sports mode off ( PSE deactivated). The tone is much higher and sounds more racy!!!!!

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May 16, 2006 8:07:34 AM

Alex_997TT: Rennteam Master; Loc: Reading , United Kingdom; Posts: 3320, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 20, 2005; Reply to: Gnil

Re: PSE mod, my comments

Yes indeed method #4! Although I guess it's just a more elegant method #3

But wait, I'm slightly confused Gnil. Can I please try to clarify what I think you are saying? Sorry to be dense. I believe there are 4 options for your car setup:

So I am assuming from your post that you were comparing (c) and (d) by flipping your hack switch on/off, yes?

CONCLUSION: (c) and (d) sound the same above 5500 rpm - ie. the hack does NOT affect the resonator.

CONCLUSION: (a) sounds best above 5500 rpm in your opinion - ie. with PSE off, the resonator on it's own gives the best sound.

Is that right?

I guess you are the best person to do these tests as you don't need to stop the car each time and manually put the hack on and off

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May 16, 2006 2:16:00 PM

DavidS: Newbie; Loc: Oklahoma, USA , United States; Posts: 34, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 26, 2005; Reply to: Gnil

Re: PSE mod, my comments

I also have installed a switch that manually controls the PSE. (Method 4)

Position "A" - Stock configuration
Position "B" - PSE always on/loud

The muffler bypass seems to be binary - either on or off.

The perceived difference in sound between the manual PSE control and the standard control results from two factors
- I think.

( 1 ) The manual is always on so you are hearing a louder sound under more conditions than you would with the factory settings.

( 2 ) The exhaust "tone" varies with "fuel mixture" conditions.

The car sounds different when cold versus when hot.

With the manual you are hearing the exhaust under non-sport engine mapping conditions and therefore hear a different sound in this case.

With the manual you are hearing the exhaust in RPM ranges that you would not hear with the factory settings and therefore different mapping ranges.

The exhaust tone is clearly different between the standard and sport settings.

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May 16, 2006 3:50:15 PM

GA997S: Veteran; Loc: Athens, Georgia, USA; Posts: 1059, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 19, 2005; Reply to: DavidS

Re: PSE mod, my comments

So PSE w/ SCP sounds different than PSE w/o SCP? Can you elaborate on the difference between the two? I have PSE w/o SCP and it sounds very nice.

On second thought...maybe I don't want to know!

But can't you make the comparison (pre mod) by switching Sport Chrono on/off while PSE is continuous on? And the "engine mapping" is basically the throttle position/gas pedal position being changed from linear to weighted heavy earlier. We know the sound of PSE (or any exhaust) at a given rpm is different depending on throttle position. Sounds louder if accelerating harder. So maybe the clearly different exhaust note is only due to the position of your foot.

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May 16, 2006 6:02:08 PM

Alex_997TT: Rennteam Master; Loc: Reading , United Kingdom; Posts: 3320, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 20, 2005; Reply to: GA997S

Re: PSE mod, my comments

OK, I just went for a quick spin and I have hack method #2. My conclusion is that under the same acceleration, there is definitely a big noise boost at 5500 rpm. So I don't think the hack cuts out the Resonator, at least the tube methods anyway.

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May 17, 2006 7:48:39 AM

Gnil: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: VD, Switzerland , Switzerland; Posts: 14184, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 11, 2005; Reply to: Alex_997TT

Re: PSE mod, my comments

Quote:
Alex (UK) said:
Yes indeed method #4! Although I guess it's just a more elegant method #3

But wait, I'm slightly confused Gnil. Can I please try to clarify what I think you are saying? Sorry to be dense. I believe there are 4 options for your car setup:

(a) Normal Mode + Stock PSE (pse off)
(b) Normal Mode + Hack PSE (pse on)
(c) Sport Mode + Stock PSE (pse on)
(d) Sport Mode + Hack PSE (pse on)

So I am assuming from your post that you were comparing (c) and (d) by flipping your hack switch on/off, yes?

CONCLUSION: (c) and (d) sound the same above 5500 rpm - ie. the hack does NOT affect the resonator.

CONCLUSION: (a) sounds best above 5500 rpm in your opinion - ie. with PSE off, the resonator on it's own gives the best sound.

Is that right?

I guess you are the best person to do these tests as you don't need to stop the car each time and manually put the hack on and off

Yes, this is exactly it !! On more precision to example D I do not have the cut off between 50 and 70 km/h ( of course).

I have done a long drive through the alps yesterday ( will post pics next week) and have done all the tests again.

I have now found that the sound above 5500 is the same when PSE on ( sports mode, or hack) then when PSE off ( normal mode)!!!!!! It is just more impressive when PSE off as the sound difference under 5500 and above 5500 is huge.
What do you think?

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May 17, 2006 7:59:21 AM

Alex_997TT: Rennteam Master; Loc: Reading , United Kingdom; Posts: 3320, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 20, 2005; Reply to: Gnil

Re: PSE mod, my comments

I think you are right, and that we all WIN with the PSE hack

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May 17, 2006 8:41:12 AM

Futch: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: EU , United Kingdom; Posts: 4759, Gallery; Registered on: May 14, 2002; Reply to: Gnil

Re: PSE mod, my comments

That's really weird Gnil,
You're saying that above 5500 rpm, PSE goes back to normal exhaust mode then?

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May 17, 2006 8:56:55 AM

Alex_997TT: Rennteam Master; Loc: Reading , United Kingdom; Posts: 3320, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 20, 2005; Reply to: Futch

Re: PSE mod, my comments

To me, above 5500rpm it sounds like a combination of the PSE and the Resonator ie. much louder than when PSE is off having the Resonator on it's own.

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May 17, 2006 12:27:47 PM

sterio: Junior; Loc: sweden; Posts: 95, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 16, 2004; Reply to: Alex_997TT

Re: PSE mod, my comments

For me, as said before I can not hear the Helmotz resonator when pulling the electric plug (PSE hack). But when having plug in and switching PSE on or off the Helmholtz Resonator sounds above 5500rpm.
Best sound for me ,PSE no hack, but PSE on.
Exhaust and Helholtz sounds together!

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May 17, 2006 12:36:36 PM

Tom1: Junior; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 139, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 8, 2002; Reply to: sterio

Re: PSE mod, my comments

There is no need for me anymore to come to a decision if I shall do the mod or not. Since last weekend the 'cut-out' disappeared - it's always on in sports-mode. Maybe I played too much with the 'sport'button and finally the PSE decided to keep open

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May 18, 2006 7:04:58 AM

Gnil: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: VD, Switzerland , Switzerland; Posts: 14184, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 11, 2005; Reply to: Futch

Re: PSE mod, my comments

Quote:
Fanch said:
That's really weird Gnil,
You're saying that above 5500 rpm, PSE goes back to normal exhaust mode then?

..or more like when in normal mode above 5500 rpm , the PSE valve opens up too, resulting in the same sound as when sports mode is on.

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May 18, 2006 7:07:48 AM

Gnil: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: VD, Switzerland , Switzerland; Posts: 14184, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 11, 2005; Reply to: Tom1

Re: PSE mod, my comments

Quote:
Tom said:
There is no need for me anymore to come to a decision if I shall do the mod or not. Since last weekend the 'cut-out' disappeared - it's always on in sports-mode. Maybe I played too much with the 'sport'button and finally the PSE decided to keep open

Your car knows what 's best !!!

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May 18, 2006 7:10:34 AM

Gnil: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: VD, Switzerland , Switzerland; Posts: 14184, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 11, 2005; Reply to: Alex_997TT

Re: PSE mod, my comments

Quote:
Alex (UK) said:
To me, above 5500rpm it sounds like a combination of the PSE and the Resonator ie. much louder than when PSE is off having the Resonator on it's own.

...

maybe I need to have my ears checked out!!

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