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Re: Fifth Gear Road Test by Tom Ford
Quote:
svtrader1 said:
Good find. Thanks
Turbo = Fast, but, soulless.
This seems to be the recurring sentiment. Uh oh
I can't understand why the journalist found only this lame argument on the turbo.
Is it because she does it better, quicker, safer, with less efforts than any other car on the market that "they" call it less exciting or less passionate???
Some will say this car is not passionate enough, but for me
it is the contrary! The technology, reliability, torque, usable horsepower (dry,rain, poor traction road...), stability, quality, discretion, and did i mentioned torque?... makes this car a real marvell of technology. AND this is (way) more than enough for me to call it a passionate car, because first i desire it like no other one and second I don't know any other car (except the 959) that has the riguor and countless hours of development to make it the benchmark in the industry.
Moreover I like creativity and new technology and for that porsche is the only one to offer year after years--- their involment and their innovation in new technology make them leaders in the sports car industry.
And after all, when i shop for a sports car i'm looking for innovation, techology, efficiency, reliability, usable horsepower, relative discretion, TORQUE at any RPMs, safety, excellent handling in cornering, breaking, and price...in the same package (which car come close?) --- and yes the 997 turbo wins heads down compre to competition -- as far as i can remember the 997 turbo is the only car with the porsche 959 that gave such enthusiasm and excitation and desire (993 turbo was close).
I get my kick with innvation technology as well as all the rest i'm mentioning above and it is not a gallardo, F430, mercedes, nor audis... who can give me a package like this. For others they get their kick with a red color, a mozart like sound package, the flashy look, rattles, little innovation and decent performance and they call it passion, for me it isn't passion --
Re: Fifth Gear Road Test by Tom Ford
German Engineering = Higher Limits, More seirous personality i.e (Soul) or as most of you say "soul less" because you feel SAFE !!!
Italian Engineering = Lower Limits which equals to much more fun, Looks and sound, Fun Factor Personality!!!!
You cant compare apples to oranges, The 911 Turbo is not a car for drifting, or impressing people by it's look or sound
it's a car that is all about technical innovation and technology FULL STOP
Italian Engineering = Lower Limits which equals to much more fun, Looks and sound, Fun Factor Personality!!!!
You cant compare apples to oranges, The 911 Turbo is not a car for drifting, or impressing people by it's look or sound
it's a car that is all about technical innovation and technology FULL STOP
Re: Fifth Gear Road Test by Tom Ford
The choice wasn't hard for me between the turbo and the GT3, especially when you love torque (understand g-force)-- it just brings a smile on my face under heavy load; and when you want to take your wife and your child with you...these are few criterias among others.
But I understand that for others it is a hard choice.
But I understand that for others it is a hard choice.
Is this correct?
"There are three settings for the electronically-controlled springs and dampers; comfort, PASM and Sport. Comfort is surprisingly compliant and deals with seven-out-of-ten road situations. PASM is more direct, lowers the ride height and firms the dampers, while 'Sport' does all the things previously mentioned"
Doesn't sound right to me
Doesn't sound right to me
Re: Is this correct?
Quote:
Alan(NJ) said:
"There are three settings for the electronically-controlled springs and dampers; comfort, PASM and Sport. Comfort is surprisingly compliant and deals with seven-out-of-ten road situations. PASM is more direct, lowers the ride height and firms the dampers, while 'Sport' does all the things previously mentioned"
Doesn't sound right to me
I would think that they made an error in the sequence. Comfort, Sport and PASM, probably.
May 14, 2006 9:57:27 AM
- easy_rider911
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Re: Is this correct?
Sorry to wheel out the girlfriend analogy but a 997 Turbo is like a girlfriend who has a PhD, model looks, cordon bleu chef and most of all is easy to live with. The 'more charismatic' Italian cars are like the temperamental girlfriends that are high maintenance in terms of the effort they require to keep them sweet. It's a no brainer for me!
May 14, 2006 12:06:30 PM
- AUM
- Veteran
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- Loc: Germany
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Re: Is this correct?
'It's awesome, off the scale awesome, but the sort of car that you're going to respect rather than love.And compared to the 911 Turbos that have come before, that's a shame. Ever since the first version earned its widowmaker reputation in the 1970s, the combination of a rear engine and on-off forced induction gave the Turbo a fearsome reputation. That was progressively toned down in subsequent generations - but the outgoing model still had an edgy side to its personality which endeared it to us even more.'
Fifth Gear review
Who is still certain that the 997 Turbo is more fun than a tuned and edgy 996 TT?
I am very happy to wait for the GT2.
AUM
Fifth Gear review
Who is still certain that the 997 Turbo is more fun than a tuned and edgy 996 TT?
I am very happy to wait for the GT2.
AUM
Re: Is this correct?
The tuned 996 does not have for example the new tranny TPM -- it can't shift all the power to the rear or front in milliseconds -- Few review stated that there is no understear and you can easily drift the car. A tuned 996 does understear...That is one diference among others...
After debating the 997 turbo and the GT3 it looks like you found a middle ground the GT2 -- a real beast.
After debating the 997 turbo and the GT3 it looks like you found a middle ground the GT2 -- a real beast.
May 14, 2006 3:34:28 PM
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nberry
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- Reply to: easy_rider911
Re: Is this correct?
Quote:
easy_rider911 said:
Sorry to wheel out the girlfriend analogy but a 997 Turbo is like a girlfriend who has a PhD, model looks, cordon bleu chef and most of all is easy to live with. The 'more charismatic' Italian cars are like the temperamental girlfriends that are high maintenance in terms of the effort they require to keep them sweet. It's a no brainer for me!
Here is a better analogy. The 997TT is like your mother. Good cook, reliable and dependable. Italians cars are like good looking girl friends. The can't do as well everything mother can do but they provide the passion and excitement that a mother cannot give. A 997TT is like kissing your mother. Italians cars are like kissing a beautiful woman.
Lets face it. The 997TT is very much like all other Porsche's. They are old dependeable shoes that are occasionally resoled, provided with different laces and minor cosmetic changes to distinguish it from the previous shoe. It still is the old shoe.
The GT2-3 would be much more exciting.
Re: Is this correct?
Quote:
nberry said:Quote:
easy_rider911 said:
Sorry to wheel out the girlfriend analogy but a 997 Turbo is like a girlfriend who has a PhD, model looks, cordon bleu chef and most of all is easy to live with. The 'more charismatic' Italian cars are like the temperamental girlfriends that are high maintenance in terms of the effort they require to keep them sweet. It's a no brainer for me!
Here is a better analogy. The 997TT is like your mother. Good cook, reliable and dependable. Italians cars are like good looking girl friends. The can't do as well everything mother can do but they provide the passion and excitement that a mother cannot give. A 997TT is like kissing your mother. Italians cars are like kissing a beautiful woman.
Lets face it. The 997TT is very much like all other Porsche's. They are old dependeable shoes that are occasionally resoled, provided with different laces and minor cosmetic changes to distinguish it from the previous shoe. It still is the old shoe.
The GT2-3 would be much more exciting.
I have a different analogy from you, Nick. The Ferrari is a Nike shoe, cheaply made, but selling at an exorbitant price, flashy and popular with the crowds, while the Porsche is a classy italian (
) shoe, well made, with timeless style. When the Nikes are gone and their fanboy crowds are all grown up, they wear the classy italian shoes.
May 14, 2006 3:56:40 PM
- SoCal Alan
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Re: Is this correct?
Quote:
nberry said:Quote:
easy_rider911 said:
Sorry to wheel out the girlfriend analogy but a 997 Turbo is like a girlfriend who has a PhD, model looks, cordon bleu chef and most of all is easy to live with. The 'more charismatic' Italian cars are like the temperamental girlfriends that are high maintenance in terms of the effort they require to keep them sweet. It's a no brainer for me!
Here is a better analogy. The 997TT is like your mother. Good cook, reliable and dependable. Italians cars are like good looking girl friends. The can't do as well everything mother can do but they provide the passion and excitement that a mother cannot give. A 997TT is like kissing your mother. Italians cars are like kissing a beautiful woman.
Lets face it. The 997TT is very much like all other Porsche's. They are old dependeable shoes that are occasionally resoled, provided with different laces and minor cosmetic changes to distinguish it from the previous shoe. It still is the old shoe.
The GT2-3 would be much more exciting.
Shouldn't you wait until you drive a 997TT before you tell us what it's like?
Re: Fifth Gear Road Test by Tom Ford
Quote:
polo said:Quote:
svtrader1 said:
Good find. Thanks
Turbo = Fast, but, soulless.
This seems to be the recurring sentiment. Uh oh
I can't understand why the journalist found only this lame argument on the turbo.
Is it because she does it better, quicker, safer, with less efforts than any other car on the market that "they" call it less exciting or less passionate???
Some will say this car is not passionate enough, but for me
it is the contrary! The technology, reliability, torque, usable horsepower (dry,rain, poor traction road...), stability, quality, discretion, and did i mentioned torque?... makes this car a real marvell of technology. AND this is (way) more than enough for me to call it a passionate car, because first i desire it like no other one and second I don't know any other car (except the 959) that has the riguor and countless hours of development to make it the benchmark in the industry.
Moreover I like creativity and new technology and for that porsche is the only one to offer year after years--- their involment and their innovation in new technology make them leaders in the sports car industry.
And after all, when i shop for a sports car i'm looking for innovation, techology, efficiency, reliability, usable horsepower, relative discretion, TORQUE at any RPMs, safety, excellent handling in cornering, breaking, and price...in the same package (which car come close?) --- and yes the 997 turbo wins heads down compre to competition -- as far as i can remember the 997 turbo is the only car with the porsche 959 that gave such enthusiasm and excitation and desire (993 turbo was close).
I get my kick with innvation technology as well as all the rest i'm mentioning above and it is not a gallardo, F430, mercedes, nor audis... who can give me a package like this. For others they get their kick with a red color, a mozart like sound package, the flashy look, rattles, little innovation and decent performance and they call it passion, for me it isn't passion --
Well said.
As a tech fanatic and a guy who's never owned a car before (lease and trade-in every 6-12 mos), I really like notion of driving '07 997TT for 12 mos, w/only new set of rears needed, and then getting '08 997TT w/poss new sports exhaust, software upgrades, etc....esp getting rid of my then-15K mi '07 997TT w/its inevitable stone chips, semi-worn brake pads and front tires, etc and getting a fresh new car to play the 1 yr "video game" all over.....the quintessential latest-tech, high-daily usability, low-mtce, capital-efficient driving/leasing expce....
May 14, 2006 5:29:07 PM
- WBH
- Expert
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- Loc: CA
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- Reply to: easy_rider911
Re: Is this correct?
Quote:
easy_rider911 said:
Sorry to wheel out the girlfriend analogy but a 997 Turbo is like a girlfriend who has a PhD, model looks, cordon bleu chef and most of all is easy to live with. The 'more charismatic' Italian cars are like the temperamental girlfriends that are high maintenance in terms of the effort they require to keep them sweet. It's a no brainer for me!
Don't most truly affluent guys also simultaneously pay for a wife, mistress and "one-night rentals" anyway....aside from a few periods btwn marriages????
Ultimate analogous trio IMO: S65, 997TT and 599.
May 14, 2006 6:13:04 PM
- SoCalHoosier
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Re: Is this correct?
Quote:
VKSF said:Quote:
easy_rider911 said:
Sorry to wheel out the girlfriend analogy but a 997 Turbo is like a girlfriend who has a PhD, model looks, cordon bleu chef and most of all is easy to live with. The 'more charismatic' Italian cars are like the temperamental girlfriends that are high maintenance in terms of the effort they require to keep them sweet. It's a no brainer for me!
Don't most truly affluent guys also simultaneously pay for a wife, mistress and "one-night rentals" anyway....aside from a few periods btwn marriages????
Ultimate analogous trio IMO: S65, 997TT and 599.
Not the truly affluent with any character.
May 14, 2006 6:30:57 PM
- Damian
- Senior
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- Loc: Pa, USA
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Re: Is this correct?
Quote:
nberry said:
Lets face it. The F430 (997TT) is very much like all other Ferrari's (Porsche's) . They are old overpriced (dependeable) shoes that are occasionally resoled, provided with different laces and minor cosmetic changes to distinguish it from the previous shoe. It still is the old shoe.
The Enzo or 599 GTB (GT2) would be much more exciting.
(See insertions in bold above.) Of course I have never driven the F430, the 997TT, nor the Enzo, 599GTB or 997 GT2-- but that is of little consequence.
Now-- on a scale of 1 - 10-- how ridiculous do I sound??
What would we do without Nberry? I love this board!
Re: Fifth Gear Road Test by Tom Ford
Quote:
svtrader1 said:
Good find. Thanks
Turbo = Fast, but, soulless.
This seems to be the recurring sentiment. Uh oh
Well (un)fortunately I can neither afford a Turbo nor am I a good enough driver to get the best out of one BUT, soul or no soul, you have to respect the quality of design and engineering and the meticulous attention to detail, if my Boxster S is anything to go by. My first Porsche and I have the deepest respect for it. Close to where I live is a main Ferrari dealer, and when you look closely at the quality of finish and fit even an F430 is not as good, even if soul and charisma it has in bucket loads. The mere fact that a 997 turbo can be compared with the latest Ferrari 599, which costs over twice as much, speaks volumes.
Re: Fifth Gear Road Test by Tom Ford
Quote:
polo said:Quote:
svtrader1 said:
Good find. Thanks
Turbo = Fast, but, soulless.
This seems to be the recurring sentiment. Uh oh
I can't understand why the journalist found only this lame argument on the turbo.
Is it because she does it better, quicker, safer, with less efforts than any other car on the market that "they" call it less exciting or less passionate???
Some will say this car is not passionate enough, but for me
it is the contrary! The technology, reliability, torque, usable horsepower (dry,rain, poor traction road...), stability, quality, discretion, and did i mentioned torque?... makes this car a real marvell of technology. AND this is (way) more than enough for me to call it a passionate car, because first i desire it like no other one and second I don't know any other car (except the 959) that has the riguor and countless hours of development to make it the benchmark in the industry.
Moreover I like creativity and new technology and for that porsche is the only one to offer year after years--- their involment and their innovation in new technology make them leaders in the sports car industry.
And after all, when i shop for a sports car i'm looking for innovation, techology, efficiency, reliability, usable horsepower, relative discretion, TORQUE at any RPMs, safety, excellent handling in cornering, breaking, and price...in the same package (which car come close?) --- and yes the 997 turbo wins heads down compre to competition -- as far as i can remember the 997 turbo is the only car with the porsche 959 that gave such enthusiasm and excitation and desire (993 turbo was close).
I get my kick with innvation technology as well as all the rest i'm mentioning above and it is not a gallardo, F430, mercedes, nor audis... who can give me a package like this. For others they get their kick with a red color, a mozart like sound package, the flashy look, rattles, little innovation and decent performance and they call it passion, for me it isn't passion --
Maybe, these journalist are car enthusiasts and simply prefer the amusement of a roller coaster over the speed, efficiency, practicality, and technology of a bullet train.
Re: Is this correct?
Quote:
Damian said:Quote:
nberry said:
Lets face it. The F430 (997TT) is very much like all other Ferrari's (Porsche's) . They are old overpriced (dependeable) shoes that are occasionally resoled, provided with different laces and minor cosmetic changes to distinguish it from the previous shoe. It still is the old shoe.
The Enzo or 599 GTB (GT2) would be much more exciting.
(See insertions in bold above.) Of course I have never driven the F430, the 997TT, nor the Enzo, 599GTB or 997 GT2-- but that is of little consequence.
Now-- on a scale of 1 - 10-- how ridiculous do I sound??
What would we do without Nberry? I love this board!
Damian, if you have driven the 996TT it is enough to be able to compare it to the 997TT. Most writers agree that the 997TT is a better car but the differences in excitement and passion are slight.
When you buy a 997TT what you are getting is a faster 996TT and that is about it.
Re: Is this correct?
Quote:
nberry said:Quote:
Damian said:Quote:
nberry said:
Lets face it. The F430 (997TT) is very much like all other Ferrari's (Porsche's) . They are old overpriced (dependeable) shoes that are occasionally resoled, provided with different laces and minor cosmetic changes to distinguish it from the previous shoe. It still is the old shoe.
The Enzo or 599 GTB (GT2) would be much more exciting.
(See insertions in bold above.) Of course I have never driven the F430, the 997TT, nor the Enzo, 599GTB or 997 GT2-- but that is of little consequence.
Now-- on a scale of 1 - 10-- how ridiculous do I sound??
What would we do without Nberry? I love this board!
Damian, if you have driven the 996TT it is enough to be able to compare it to the 997TT. Most writers agree that the 997TT is a better car but the differences in excitement and passion are slight.
When you buy a 997TT what you are getting is a faster 996TT and that is about it.
I couldn't disagree more! The 997tt has so much new technology it is on a completely different level than the 996tt. First, new electronic diferentials instantly shift power between axles and wheels, giving the car a much sportier and balanced feel. Most of the criticism surrounding the 996tt's handling was that it understeered too much. With the new e-diff, most journalists have said it is very balanced and doesn't really understeer. In fact it is easy to provoke a tail out slide with a stab of the throttle. Second, variable vane turbochargers eliminate turbo lag making the car far more responsive and quick. With the overboost function you get midrange grunt a 996tt could only dream about. In addition to these major improvements, you get a much better interior, transmision, pasm, new and improved brakes, suspension, more downforce, etc. This car is a definite step forward. Again Nick while you have driven the 996tt (as have I) neither of us has driven the new car so we cannot really be sure. I want to read a review in which the driver had more than a mere day to test the car and I am very much looking forward to a comparison with its true competitors the f430 and gallardo.
Re: Is this correct?
I took this post from another site..6Speedonline.com and found it interesting.It does illustrate how fast this car is and although seen through the eyes of a Ruf owner is worth the post. Heres the link for those wanting to read it first hand: http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48562
Last night Lisa and I were coming back from a weekend at the Nurburgring with RMA. She was in the R turbo, and i was following in the CTR. Late last night, about 11:30pm. Just after stuttgart the autobahn becomes very wide and very fast. Completely derestricted. So we are doing around 160kmh due to traffic in the fast lane. when i look in my rear view mirror and see Xenons about 500m away, closing in on the little yellowbird very very quickly. Hmmm so as it approaches i pull in, and it blasts past. And i see that it is indeed a 997tt.
Initial impressions: it sits on the road very well. Looks good, however it wasnt quite an event. Hard to describe, i didnt like where the exhausts sat in the middle of the bumper either. But overall impressed.
So back to the story: I pull back out and follow him, he has now braked really really late and is about 2 foot from the pert red rump of the r turbo. Traffic infront of the r turbo clears and lisa gently accelerates away, the 997tt stays there and flashes her to move over. She does, he just absolutely blasts off, but i was ready.
I had turned boost up to full, (i had been driving home on low boost) so full 1.2bar, and i had shifted down to fifth. When he went he was approx. 8 car lengths ahead of me, and he had a slight advantage as he was nailed quite a bit before me. So we both go, and jeez it is taking me longer than i expected to catch him. Its so hard to describe exact comparisons because there are so many variables but i remember redlining 5th and shifting as quick as possible into 6th and then drawing alongside at approx 175mph. The best way to describe any accelerative comparison is that the CTR was catching it at a very quick walk. But boy did i have to push. And this guy was some kind of factory test driver methinks. Anywho he pulls in at 190mph and im alongside, then we slow for approaching traffic. I can see him looking over (no doubt thinking WTF?!) Sadly he had to pull in and take the next exit but he put his emergency lights on and i flashed him.
I called lisa, who later told me that she did nail the r turbo, but it wouldnt boost, it only went to 0,4 bar, so she was absolutely livid And this has been an intermittent problem for a few months now, have to get it checked, to think that it did it then, with a brand new 997tt is just about the definition of sods law i can think of...
Oh when we slowed, the 997tt had glowing exhausts! Very nice.
Great fun. Very fast.
all the best
adam
__________________
RUF R turbo
RUF CTR
BMW M5
Alpina B8 4.6
RUF Team 2005 Alumni
Last night Lisa and I were coming back from a weekend at the Nurburgring with RMA. She was in the R turbo, and i was following in the CTR. Late last night, about 11:30pm. Just after stuttgart the autobahn becomes very wide and very fast. Completely derestricted. So we are doing around 160kmh due to traffic in the fast lane. when i look in my rear view mirror and see Xenons about 500m away, closing in on the little yellowbird very very quickly. Hmmm so as it approaches i pull in, and it blasts past. And i see that it is indeed a 997tt.
Initial impressions: it sits on the road very well. Looks good, however it wasnt quite an event. Hard to describe, i didnt like where the exhausts sat in the middle of the bumper either. But overall impressed.
So back to the story: I pull back out and follow him, he has now braked really really late and is about 2 foot from the pert red rump of the r turbo. Traffic infront of the r turbo clears and lisa gently accelerates away, the 997tt stays there and flashes her to move over. She does, he just absolutely blasts off, but i was ready.
I had turned boost up to full, (i had been driving home on low boost) so full 1.2bar, and i had shifted down to fifth. When he went he was approx. 8 car lengths ahead of me, and he had a slight advantage as he was nailed quite a bit before me. So we both go, and jeez it is taking me longer than i expected to catch him. Its so hard to describe exact comparisons because there are so many variables but i remember redlining 5th and shifting as quick as possible into 6th and then drawing alongside at approx 175mph. The best way to describe any accelerative comparison is that the CTR was catching it at a very quick walk. But boy did i have to push. And this guy was some kind of factory test driver methinks. Anywho he pulls in at 190mph and im alongside, then we slow for approaching traffic. I can see him looking over (no doubt thinking WTF?!) Sadly he had to pull in and take the next exit but he put his emergency lights on and i flashed him.
I called lisa, who later told me that she did nail the r turbo, but it wouldnt boost, it only went to 0,4 bar, so she was absolutely livid And this has been an intermittent problem for a few months now, have to get it checked, to think that it did it then, with a brand new 997tt is just about the definition of sods law i can think of...
Oh when we slowed, the 997tt had glowing exhausts! Very nice.
Great fun. Very fast.
all the best
adam
__________________
RUF R turbo
RUF CTR
BMW M5
Alpina B8 4.6
RUF Team 2005 Alumni
May 15, 2006 2:37:28 AM
- Dock (Atlanta)
- Pilot
-
- Loc: Atlanta, Georgia
- Posts: 386, Gallery
- Registered on: May 1, 2002
- Reply to: polo
Re: Fifth Gear Road Test by Tom Ford
Quote:
polo said:And after all, when i shop for a sports car i'm looking for innovation, techology, efficiency, reliability, usable horsepower, relative discretion, TORQUE at any RPMs, safety, excellent handling in cornering, breaking, and price...
Looks like the 997 Turbo is all of this...with large amounts of "driver isolation" thrown in too.
No thanks.
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