Apr 27, 2006 10:54:50 AM
- rosso nuvola
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Apr 27, 2006 10:56:34 AM
- Crash
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Re: The German auto press... is not reliable !
Quote:
rosso nuvola said:
the perfect example...
http://www.askaprice.com/torque-article.asp?item=718
VIDEO--->> http://www.jalopnik.com/cars/novelties/worlds-greatest-pr-goofs-mercedesbenz-fog-system-169429.php
This is old. Besides, the Auto Bild reporter who commited this fraudulent act was immediately fired.
Apr 27, 2006 1:35:00 PM
- rosso nuvola
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Re: The German auto press... is not reliable !
http://download.stern.de/_stream/NEBELCRASH_DSL.wmv
the original german video
So he was fired and so everithing is ok ??????
What about all the other people that were filming/reporting and i dont meen the small "fish" ... what about Mercedes they help him fake the test have they been fired ?? what about this new Sclass that is sopused to have more tecnology than the spaceship but has a fog system that doesnt work around metal objects...???
Why is that in all German magazines every they compare a german car with a forein car the win always goes for the german model???
Why is taht spor motor und auto (dont remenber the name exactly) the german magazine that makes laps around the Nürburing had on the first 10 places only german cars??? I have seen a magazine that has taken the new corvette to the same track and came out with the best time ever for a rosd car?? Dont they sell Corvetes in Germany ???
the original german video
So he was fired and so everithing is ok ??????
What about all the other people that were filming/reporting and i dont meen the small "fish" ... what about Mercedes they help him fake the test have they been fired ?? what about this new Sclass that is sopused to have more tecnology than the spaceship but has a fog system that doesnt work around metal objects...???
Why is that in all German magazines every they compare a german car with a forein car the win always goes for the german model???
Why is taht spor motor und auto (dont remenber the name exactly) the german magazine that makes laps around the Nürburing had on the first 10 places only german cars??? I have seen a magazine that has taken the new corvette to the same track and came out with the best time ever for a rosd car?? Dont they sell Corvetes in Germany ???
Apr 27, 2006 3:22:45 PM
- Crash
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Re: The German auto press... is not reliable !
Quote:
rosso nuvola said:
http://download.stern.de/_stream/NEBELCRASH_DSL.wmv
the original german video
So he was fired and so everithing is ok ??????
What about all the other people that were filming/reporting and i dont meen the small "fish" ... what about Mercedes they help him fake the test have they been fired ?? what about this new Sclass that is sopused to have more tecnology than the spaceship but has a fog system that doesnt work around metal objects...???
Why is that in all German magazines every they compare a german car with a forein car the win always goes for the german model???
Why is taht spor motor und auto (dont remenber the name exactly) the german magazine that makes laps around the Nürburing had on the first 10 places only german cars??? I have seen a magazine that has taken the new corvette to the same track and came out with the best time ever for a rosd car?? Dont they sell Corvetes in Germany ???
Cool it. Just because there was one rotten reporter doesn't mean everyone is to blame. Regarding MB, I have no idea who got fired, but it's not the first time a company pulled a publicity stunt like that (basically show a new high-tech system available in a new model, but don't actually introduce it to the public once the car hits the dealers - much like PDK
). Unfortunately for them, the stunt failed, due to a careless reporter.Regarding AMS (Auto, Motor und Sport), they are the most objective car magazine you can find. Why are there so many german cars in the top ten? Simple, the Germans are the best when it comes to racing and they actually develop their cars on the Nring.
Regarding the Jan Magnusson run (the "fastest" time ever, which it isn't, by far) of 7.42.9, no details havew been released of the run.
Was it a standing or a flying start? What tyres did the car use for the run? What were the conditions of the track? WHy did they spend two weeks tweaking the suspension for the run? Was the car truly completely stock? One could go on and on about this.
Apr 27, 2006 6:58:20 PM
- rosso nuvola
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Re: The German auto press... is not reliable !
http://download.stern.de/_stream/NEBELCRASH_DSL.wmv the original images (in German).
A careless reporter???? i call that cheting and lyeing , misinformation !!!
"::::Regarding AMS (Auto, Motor und Sport), they are the most objective car magazine you can find. :::"
AMS is the most unreliable magazine in Europe!
I dindt said that Germans are evil so you cool it, what i said is that their auto press has only one objective to make propaganda for the GermanAuto industry and this is a fact..
"... Simple, the Germans are the best when it comes to racing and they actually develop their cars on the Nring...."
The first part is ridiculus so no point to argue about that, the second part of this quote however deservs to be clarified , everybody develops their cars at the Nürb even Cadilacc has been there, Maserati, Ferrari, Volvo, Saab EVERYBODY !!
Apr 27, 2006 11:34:11 PM
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nberry
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Re: The German auto press... is not reliable !
Not surprising. I have maintained all along the tests are rigged toward the bias the reviewer has. German magazines are going to protect the German industry. Only we in the US eat our own. 
BTW, RC doesn't believe Von saurma is close to Porsche. Right, like Windeking is not close to VW.
BTW, RC doesn't believe Von saurma is close to Porsche. Right, like Windeking is not close to VW.
Re: The German auto press... is not reliable !
Bild, AMS, SportAuto, whatever. Don't question German car companies, their PR people or their near captive magazines.
Sadly, the only positive thing Germany can tout is their cars. So at least let them have that. And from RC's comments, even Germans are not supposed to enjoy what they make best.
It is better for the world to have Germany bragging about its cars than having them march to the beaches again.
Sadly, the only positive thing Germany can tout is their cars. So at least let them have that. And from RC's comments, even Germans are not supposed to enjoy what they make best.
It is better for the world to have Germany bragging about its cars than having them march to the beaches again.
Apr 28, 2006 9:00:14 AM
- Crash
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Re: The German auto press... is not reliable !
Quote:
rosso nuvola said:
http://download.stern.de/_stream/NEBELCRASH_DSL.wmv the original images (in German).
A careless reporter???? i call that cheting and lyeing , misinformation !!!
"::::Regarding AMS (Auto, Motor und Sport), they are the most objective car magazine you can find. :::"
AMS is the most unreliable magazine in Europe!
I dindt said that Germans are evil so you cool it, what i said is that their auto press has only one objective to make propaganda for the GermanAuto industry and this is a fact..
"... Simple, the Germans are the best when it comes to racing and they actually develop their cars on the Nring...."
The first part is ridiculus so no point to argue about that, the second part of this quote however deservs to be clarified , everybody develops their cars at the Nürb even Cadilacc has been there, Maserati, Ferrari, Volvo, Saab EVERYBODY !!
Where did I say a "CARELESS REPORTER"? I said a ROTTEN reporter, who RIGHTFULLY got fired. And just because you're a Ferrari fan, doesn't mean that the german press is unreliable, when it's your favorite car company that can't make a fast car (or at least fast enough).
Furthermore, Auto Bild isn't exactly touted as the epitome of excellent automotive journalism.
Unless you have HARD DATE to back your statements up, please refrain from accusing hard-working journalists that they are corrupt.
So, give me proof that AMS is the most unreliable car magazine in Europe. Apart from your bold statement, I don't see any.
Regarding my ridiculous statement regarding german superiority, look at who's driving your italian "stallion" in Formula 1. Sure, he must be Swiss
.Porsche has been making superior road and race cars for decades, so there is nothing ridiculous in my statement.
Also, I know that many other car companies TEST their cars on the Ring, but do they actually do it DURING the development phase? I'm sorry if your beloved Volvos and Caddies don't go around the Ring as fast as Porsches and your dearest Ferrari is too scared to lend an Enzo for the Ring Supertest.
Apr 28, 2006 9:18:40 AM
- Porsche-Jeck
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Re: The German auto press... is not reliable !
Quote:
nberry said:
German magazines are going to protect the German industry. Only we in the US eat our own.
They don't protect the car industry, they will do whatever allows them to make the maximum profit on their own account in the first place (and that's the same all over the world).
Of course every carmag has two streams of revenue: sold copies and adverts and with regards to the adverts revenues there is certainly a grey zone or inherent conflict of interest. Maybe the German carmags would praise the quality of FIAT, if FIAT would buy 80% of the advert space in the mags
But then, the normal reader might not be as dumb as the marketing experts think (I doubt that FIAT would significantly increase their market share just because some carmags would praise them).What I really find irritating is the fact, that all journalists can ask for a special "journalist discount" if they buy new cars. To make it less obvious all journalists (not only those working for carmags) are entitled to this privilege.
And this is not restricted to cars only - there is even a website where you can check the discounts on airfares, furniture etc.
I don't know how big the discount for other car brands is, but Porsche offers some 10% right now. A colleague of mine (our business is not car related at all and the colleague is our PR-director, not really working as a "journalist", but in posession of a "press pass") has been offered a nice deal: Porsche specced like he wishs, car built and then driven by a P-employee for 6-9 months, then sold to him as a "Werkswagen" (factory car driven by a P-employee) with a "Werkswagen"-discount of appr. 15% PLUS journalist discount of an additional 10"
Would be interesting to see what a chief reporter of a carmag could get...
But as already said: I guess it's naive to assume that these things are handled "cleaner" in other parts of the world or in other industries.
Also it would be interesting to see whether German cars are getting less positive reviews in other parts of the world (are Swedish carmags more biased towards Volvo or Saab, Korean carmags towards Hyundai?).
Apr 28, 2006 9:33:17 AM
- Porsche-Jeck
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Re: The German auto press... is not reliable !
Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Sadly, the only positive thing Germany can tout is their cars. So at least let them have that.
It is better for the world to have Germany bragging about its cars than having them march to the beaches again.
Your view on Germany seems a bit old fashioned
The march to the beaches takes place every summer holiday - that's why the beaches at the Mediterranean Sea are called "teutonic grill"
Re: The German auto press... is not reliable !
Quote:
nberry said:
Not surprising. I have maintained all along the tests are rigged toward the bias the reviewer has. German magazines are going to protect the German industry. Only we in the US eat our own.
BTW, RC doesn't believe Von saurma is close to Porsche. Right, like Windeking is not close to VW.
1. the "incident" regarding Stern, Autobild and Mercedes is a pretty old thing, this is the ONLY incident of such kind I know of
2. of course it can't be excluded that some car magazines/journalists are more or less biased towards a certain brand but I think this is valid worldwide
3. Autobild is related to the BILD Zeitung. The BILD Zeitung has pretty much the same reputation over here like the National Inquirer in the US (well, maybe not quite that bad but pretty close).
4. Germans aren't perfect and of course we have corruption here too. But we also have some sort of working ethics which may be stronger developped than in other countries and cultures (remind you that I'm not born in Germany and have seen many many other "things").
5. Horst von Saurma is a highly respected car journalist and professional race driver. I speak to many people, from time to time even to people who know him or heard of him and I can assure you that he has a white vest, he is a car enthusiast through and through and would never sell himself to one or another car company. If you could read his reviews in GERMAN, you would understand this immediately after a few issues of SPORT AUTO. This is why Horst v. Saurma has this good reputation.
6. Look at Rennteam.com: do you think we are related in a way or another to Porsche? Many people believe so.
I wish we were but the only support we get in unofficial support from people who are directly or not quite directly involved with Porsche and these people risk their job to help us and provide the information we sometimes provide. For the benefit of us all because it helps to make early buying decisions and to understand certain products/decisions/etc. much better.
7. For some time now, Sport Auto has been criticized to be too biased towards Porsche because they tested practically all models. The reason is simple: Porsche has no problem with handing over test cars to Sport Auto, while some other car companies have to be "begged" to provide a car for a track test, no matter what the reasons for this behaviour may be. And unfortunately this seems to include Ferrari too. As far as I heard, Sport Auto wanted to get a Bugatti Veyron for a Supertest but Bugatti/VW refused. If HvS has such good relations to Porsche and Dr. Wiedeking, he could have easily put his hands on a Veyron for a Supertest.
Nick, as a lawyer, you always have to suspect that people are lying or that they're involved in some sort of "scheme". My suggestion to you: whenever you come to Germany, I'll be more than happy to show you what a Cayenne Turbo and a 997 Turbo are capable of, especially on wet pavement. And we may even find the time to invite some "friends" in other sportscars to prove to you, that we don't have to lie or exaggerate.
You also seem to forget that Rennteam isn't only RC but also others, like for example zzboba and CR who own a Ferrari F430. And I'm happy that they're providing an insight from their point of view and of course a more critical approach to Porsche products. This is a GOOD thing.
Like we always said: we're the largest independent non-profit and non-commercial sportscar forum in the world. And our reputation is actually our "capital". I take it pretty personal if somebody (not you!) accuses me of lying.
And even if I may be biased towards Porsche, I always say what I think about them and their products and sometimes this doesn't make them happy. It is a pitty some of you guys weren't there when I had the chance to talk to a high ranked Porsche employee regarding the Cayenne Turbo throttle hesitation. His last eMail was: "Please never ever mail me again." The funny part: the last eMail I sent him was actually the one where I confirmed our meeting schedule.
And as a last point to our swiss friend who started this thread: so ONE incident with ONE car magazine makes the german auto press not reliable? So if ONE swiss chocolate manufacturer makes horrible chocolate, all of them do? Do I understand this right?!
This is Rennteam, not a boulevard newspaper. If you want me to take you seriously, your thread title should have been: "The German Auto Press...reliable or not?". Or even less sensational: "German Autobild scandal...single incident or not?"
You wanted to provoke, I understand. But how about "Swiss cheese...doesn't taste good!" True or not?!
Apr 28, 2006 12:04:14 PM
- rosso nuvola
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RC
Re: The German auto press... is not reliable !
I didn't want to provoke no one, why is that AutoZeitung(the funiest magazine, and the perfect example of propaganda)lies about the heights of the non German cars ???
Why is that the ADAC when testing the Renault Logan claim that the car has unsafe , the Logan turned upaside down on their test and made the front pages in Germany, Renault demanded an investigation and they find out that the car had been tested hard all day and when they crash it the tyres were so bad that the couldn't take the height of the car and the the wheels tueched the ground,provoking the rollover, off course this is of no importance when the normal people see on the news paper a car that is said to be not safe people will continue to buy the VW Fox etc etc which was exacly the objective...Why is that AutoZeitung when testing a gruop of cars that included the SAAB 95 and Opel Vectra gave more points to the Vectra ??? they use the same chassis and the 95 is a better version of the vectra?? on the same test there was the Alfa159 which take d the last place
why is that AMS when testing a group of cars that inclued BMW3,AudiA4,Merc C,Honda Accord,Peugot 406 anh the Alfa 159, they give more points to the German models when talking about the behaivior of the cars ?? i have seen this test on TV Motorvision and the ALfa won every dinamic test by a large margin but still they claim that the German models were dinamicaly better ??? ridiculus! Why was that one magazine tested the new Gpunto and the new Renault CLio against the VW Polo they gave the victory to the Polo which is a car that was like 8 years old and is nothing more that the old Polo with a restyling, its impossibile that the Polo wuold win aginst the Gpunto or against the new Clio on a fair test. Why is that AMS tested the Alfa Brera 4X4 250hp against the Nissan 4X2 280hp and making the Brera look bad saing that the Nissan was much more sportier ...daaaa. Why didnt they tested the Brera against the Audi TT which is 4X4 and has 250hp just like the Brera???? Because if they tested the Brera against the TT the many limitations from the TT wuld be impossible to cover up... 
Why is that the ADAC when testing the Renault Logan claim that the car has unsafe , the Logan turned upaside down on their test and made the front pages in Germany, Renault demanded an investigation and they find out that the car had been tested hard all day and when they crash it the tyres were so bad that the couldn't take the height of the car and the the wheels tueched the ground,provoking the rollover, off course this is of no importance when the normal people see on the news paper a car that is said to be not safe people will continue to buy the VW Fox etc etc which was exacly the objective...Why is that AutoZeitung when testing a gruop of cars that included the SAAB 95 and Opel Vectra gave more points to the Vectra ??? they use the same chassis and the 95 is a better version of the vectra?? on the same test there was the Alfa159 which take d the last place
why is that AMS when testing a group of cars that inclued BMW3,AudiA4,Merc C,Honda Accord,Peugot 406 anh the Alfa 159, they give more points to the German models when talking about the behaivior of the cars ?? i have seen this test on TV Motorvision and the ALfa won every dinamic test by a large margin but still they claim that the German models were dinamicaly better ??? ridiculus! Why was that one magazine tested the new Gpunto and the new Renault CLio against the VW Polo they gave the victory to the Polo which is a car that was like 8 years old and is nothing more that the old Polo with a restyling, its impossibile that the Polo wuold win aginst the Gpunto or against the new Clio on a fair test. Why is that AMS tested the Alfa Brera 4X4 250hp against the Nissan 4X2 280hp and making the Brera look bad saing that the Nissan was much more sportier ...daaaa. Why didnt they tested the Brera against the Audi TT which is 4X4 and has 250hp just like the Brera???? Because if they tested the Brera against the TT the many limitations from the TT wuld be impossible to cover up...
Apr 28, 2006 1:03:40 PM
- rosso nuvola
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Re: The German auto press... is not reliable !
My point has about the press ,not about the german superiority when racing which by the way i dont see.
"...Regarding my ridiculous statement regarding german superiority, look at who's driving your italian "stallion" in Formula 1. Sure, he must be Swiss .
Porsche has been making superior road and race cars for decades, so there is nothing ridiculous in my statement..."
Yes schumi( he lives in Switzerland
) is driving the Ferrari but tell me another German F1 pilot that has been worldchampion in the last 10 years, or if cant find one just give me one that has proved to be above the others ,he is one of a kind.
How many german teams there are on F1 ??? One BMW how many times have they been champions??? Mercedes has bought Ilmor when they came to F1 because they could,t make the engines by themselves,and after the problems in pre-season in th engines they bought 20 engeners from Cosworth thats how they solved their problems . How many teams from your country are in the World rally champioship??
Why would sameone in their right mind would give a Enzo to Von Saurna ???
Why hasnt the Sport automagazine tested the new Corvette ,dont they sell Corvetes there?? ...i know... their scared
"...Regarding my ridiculous statement regarding german superiority, look at who's driving your italian "stallion" in Formula 1. Sure, he must be Swiss .
Porsche has been making superior road and race cars for decades, so there is nothing ridiculous in my statement..."
Yes schumi( he lives in Switzerland
) is driving the Ferrari but tell me another German F1 pilot that has been worldchampion in the last 10 years, or if cant find one just give me one that has proved to be above the others ,he is one of a kind.How many german teams there are on F1 ??? One BMW how many times have they been champions???
Mercedes has bought Ilmor when they came to F1 because they could,t make the engines by themselves,and after the problems in pre-season in th engines they bought 20 engeners from Cosworth thats how they solved their problems . How many teams from your country are in the World rally champioship??Why would sameone in their right mind would give a Enzo to Von Saurna ???
Why hasnt the Sport automagazine tested the new Corvette ,dont they sell Corvetes there?? ...i know... their scared
Re: The German auto press... is not reliable !
Hold on Christian. How do you go from my criticism of all car test to me accusing Rennteam of dishonesty? My comment regarding Von Saurma and Porsche was to point out that he was no different though you believed otherwise. I used the VW/weidekeng metaphor only as an illustration.
If I considered this site as lacking substantance, I would not participate. Much of what is posted is good and factual.However, many of us including myself harbor biases and no matter how hard we try they at some point will surface.
Regarding Von saurma, do you think for one second that Porsche would turn their cars over to him as freely as they do if they thought his test and comments would find fault? If you do, then .
Also I am sure you believe the reluctance of other cars manufacturers to do the same is directly related to their fear of what he will find. My view is they don't trust him.
If I considered this site as lacking substantance, I would not participate. Much of what is posted is good and factual.However, many of us including myself harbor biases and no matter how hard we try they at some point will surface.
Regarding Von saurma, do you think for one second that Porsche would turn their cars over to him as freely as they do if they thought his test and comments would find fault? If you do, then
. Also I am sure you believe the reluctance of other cars manufacturers to do the same is directly related to their fear of what he will find. My view is they don't trust him.
Apr 28, 2006 2:34:05 PM
- KresoF1
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Re: The German auto press... is not reliable !
Sport Auto tested Corvette Z06 few issues ago...
Here are test data:
0-100 4,0
0-160 8,0
0-200 12.0
Hockenheim lap: 1.11,5
So, faster around Hockenheim then any Porsche(except CGT), Ferrari or Lamborghini... This review was very positive one.
You apparently missed that issue...
Here are test data:
0-100 4,0
0-160 8,0
0-200 12.0
Hockenheim lap: 1.11,5
So, faster around Hockenheim then any Porsche(except CGT), Ferrari or Lamborghini... This review was very positive one.
You apparently missed that issue...
Re: The German auto press... is not reliable !
Quote:
Jeannot said:Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Sadly, the only positive thing Germany can tout is their cars.
You forgot their beers
and their national soccer team!
Yes, I did forget to give their beers credit. I prefer the Belgian brews, but German beer is good also.
German Soccer Team, How many Germans are on it?
When it comes to consumer products a country is known for, Germany is still known for cars. Thats whats left after cameras and electronics vanished. So let them at least enjoy their cars. When their cars are good, they are very good. When they dissapoint-like Mercedes Benz recently-
they are very very bad because expectations are so high.
Re: The German auto press... is not reliable !
Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
When it comes to consumer products a country is known for, Germany is still known for cars. Thats whats left after cameras and electronics vanished. So let them at least enjoy their cars.
oh really?
What's your nationality?
Re: The German auto press... is not reliable !
Quote:
KresoF1 said:
Sport Auto tested Corvette Z06 few issues ago...
Here are test data:
0-100 4,0
0-160 8,0
0-200 12.0
Hockenheim lap: 1.11,5
So, faster around Hockenheim then any Porsche(except CGT), Ferrari or Lamborghini... This review was very positive one.
You apparently missed that issue...
If they tested for the Hockenheim why not the Ring?
BTW, those times are much slower than what the US magazines and GM claim for the Z06. Also did you see the post from another German magazine which gives embarrassingly low time for the Z06?
Re: The German auto press... is not reliable !
Quote:
nberry said:Quote:
KresoF1 said:
Sport Auto tested Corvette Z06 few issues ago...
Here are test data:
0-100 4,0
0-160 8,0
0-200 12.0
Hockenheim lap: 1.11,5
So, faster around Hockenheim then any Porsche(except CGT), Ferrari or Lamborghini... This review was very positive one.
You apparently missed that issue...
If they tested for the Hockenheim why not the Ring?
BTW, those times are much slower than what the US magazines and GM claim for the Z06. Also did you see the post from another German magazine which gives embarrassingly low time for the Z06?
You don't read Motor Trend and Road & Track, do you? Compared to their numbers, the Sport Auto numbers are stellar.
The reason they didn't test it on the Nring was the snow. The track was still covered by it when they tested the car, so they decided to do the test later in the year.
Re: The German auto press... is not reliable !
Nick, it was regular test-NOT Super Test. On regular tests they measure it only on Hockenheim, on the other hand-Super Test both Hockenheim and Nordschleife. Only one driver on Super Test-your beloved Horst von Saurma...
Belive me Vette Z06 will be tested soon in Super Test and results will be(my guess!) amazing!
One hint-in the next issue of Sport Auto new Audi RS4 will be prime star of Super Test and 0-100km/h and 0-200km/h times will be better then Porsche 997 Carrera S. Ok, This RS4 will be equiped with optional sport suspension and front ceramic brakes(new option for RS4) but, this tell something about v. Saurma...
I personally like german Sport Auto and english EVO very much.
Regarding how honest or objective all car magazines are?? Now, that's the right subject, IMO. Most reviewers(specially those from USA and Italy) are really too subjective in their final opinion.
Let me translate(well, not precisely) last sentence from recent Auto Bild Sportscars Vette Z06 review:" This Vette Z06 is so fast on race track that we are wondering what will be faster! Really amazing car!" AMS said this is the true 5star car and truly something special! And this is from german car magazines...
BTW, all cars are slower in 0-100km/h(or 0-60mph) when measured by Euro car magazines then USA based ones...
Do you really belive that Porsche 997 Carrera S is capable to achive 0-60mph in 4.1s or 3.9s!!?? Well, I do not! And this times were printed is USA mags.
Belive me Vette Z06 will be tested soon in Super Test and results will be(my guess!) amazing!
One hint-in the next issue of Sport Auto new Audi RS4 will be prime star of Super Test and 0-100km/h and 0-200km/h times will be better then Porsche 997 Carrera S. Ok, This RS4 will be equiped with optional sport suspension and front ceramic brakes(new option for RS4) but, this tell something about v. Saurma...
I personally like german Sport Auto and english EVO very much.
Regarding how honest or objective all car magazines are?? Now, that's the right subject, IMO. Most reviewers(specially those from USA and Italy) are really too subjective in their final opinion.
Let me translate(well, not precisely) last sentence from recent Auto Bild Sportscars Vette Z06 review:" This Vette Z06 is so fast on race track that we are wondering what will be faster! Really amazing car!" AMS said this is the true 5star car and truly something special! And this is from german car magazines...
BTW, all cars are slower in 0-100km/h(or 0-60mph) when measured by Euro car magazines then USA based ones...
Do you really belive that Porsche 997 Carrera S is capable to achive 0-60mph in 4.1s or 3.9s!!?? Well, I do not! And this times were printed is USA mags.
Re: The German auto press... is not reliable !
I hope you are right. US magazine test to 62mph and not 60 which may explain the different times.
Nevertheless, the bottom line is we all need to be somewhat skeptical. You cite Auto Bild as evidence that German magazines can be fair. Yet, we are also told by many on this board as well as others that Auto Bild is nothing more than crap journalism and should not seriously consider their opinion. I find it strange that the one german magazine that sings the praise of the Z06 is considered by most European's as unworthy and unreliable in reporting.
Crash, Motor Trend numbers are better than what is being reported by Sport Auto. I am not sure what numbers you are referring to.
Nevertheless, the bottom line is we all need to be somewhat skeptical. You cite Auto Bild as evidence that German magazines can be fair. Yet, we are also told by many on this board as well as others that Auto Bild is nothing more than crap journalism and should not seriously consider their opinion. I find it strange that the one german magazine that sings the praise of the Z06 is considered by most European's as unworthy and unreliable in reporting.
Crash, Motor Trend numbers are better than what is being reported by Sport Auto. I am not sure what numbers you are referring to.
Re: The German auto press... is not reliable !
Nick, here is the link to Auto Bild-Sportscars edition Vette Z06 review:
http://www.autobild.de/test/neuwagen/artikel.php?artikel_id=11219
I do not know if you understand german but, check it out anyway(BTW, it is 5page long!)...
Regarding german car mags I read most of them: Auto Bild-Sportscars Edition, Auto-Motor-und-Sport, Auto Zeitung and Sport Auto. Sport Auto is very good, AMS and Auto Bild-Sportscar Edition close second. Auto Zeitung? Average is the best word here, IMO.
EVO is the very good one from England. Top gear is amusing(Clarkson)... CAR? I do not like it.
Italian mags? Some are good but, my Italian is limited so...
USA mags? Well, since there is big difference between most models in USA and Europe I read them without huge interest.
Car and Driver is decent one I guess.
What I do not like are special Porsche,BMW or any other manufacturer mag. They are subjective to the "Holy cow worship" level, IMO.
Personally I do not think that good review results are important for Sportscar buyer. Yes, it is nice to have excellent review results of your car but, I do not care...
And most reviewers of Sportscars are very subjective, we should check out what do they drive in daily basis? Most of us here have more(longterm) experience with Sportscars then some of these "so called" reviewers...
Just my opinion...
http://www.autobild.de/test/neuwagen/artikel.php?artikel_id=11219
I do not know if you understand german but, check it out anyway(BTW, it is 5page long!)...
Regarding german car mags I read most of them: Auto Bild-Sportscars Edition, Auto-Motor-und-Sport, Auto Zeitung and Sport Auto. Sport Auto is very good, AMS and Auto Bild-Sportscar Edition close second. Auto Zeitung? Average is the best word here, IMO.
EVO is the very good one from England. Top gear is amusing(Clarkson)... CAR? I do not like it.
Italian mags? Some are good but, my Italian is limited so...
USA mags? Well, since there is big difference between most models in USA and Europe I read them without huge interest.
Car and Driver is decent one I guess.
What I do not like are special Porsche,BMW or any other manufacturer mag. They are subjective to the "Holy cow worship" level, IMO.
Personally I do not think that good review results are important for Sportscar buyer. Yes, it is nice to have excellent review results of your car but, I do not care...
And most reviewers of Sportscars are very subjective, we should check out what do they drive in daily basis? Most of us here have more(longterm) experience with Sportscars then some of these "so called" reviewers...
Just my opinion...
Re: The German auto press... is not reliable !
Quote:
nberry said:
I hope you are right. US magazine test to 62mph and not 60 which may explain the different times.
Nevertheless, the bottom line is we all need to be somewhat skeptical. You cite Auto Bild as evidence that German magazines can be fair. Yet, we are also told by many on this board as well as others that Auto Bild is nothing more than crap journalism and should not seriously consider their opinion. I find it strange that the one german magazine that sings the praise of the Z06 is considered by most European's as unworthy and unreliable in reporting.
Crash, Motor Trend numbers are better than what is being reported by Sport Auto. I am not sure what numbers you are referring to.
Nick, love your logic!
Re: The German auto press... is not reliable !
Quote:
KresoF1 said:
Nick, here is the link to Auto Bild-Sportscars edition Vette Z06 review:
http://www.autobild.de/test/neuwagen/artikel.php?artikel_id=11219
I do not know if you understand german but, check it out anyway(BTW, it is 5page long!)...
Regarding german car mags I read most of them: Auto Bild-Sportscars Edition, Auto-Motor-und-Sport, Auto Zeitung and Sport Auto. Sport Auto is very good, AMS and Auto Bild-Sportscar Edition close second. Auto Zeitung? Average is the best word here, IMO.
EVO is the very good one from England. Top gear is amusing(Clarkson)... CAR? I do not like it.
Italian mags? Some are good but, my Italian is limited so...
USA mags? Well, since there is big difference between most models in USA and Europe I read them without huge interest.
Car and Driver is decent one I guess.
What I do not like are special Porsche,BMW or any other manufacturer mag. They are subjective to the "Holy cow worship" level, IMO.
Personally I do not think that good review results are important for Sportscar buyer. Yes, it is nice to have excellent review results of your car but, I do not care...
And most reviewers of Sportscars are very subjective, we should check out what do they drive in daily basis? Most of us here have more(longterm) experience with Sportscars then some of these "so called" reviewers...
Just my opinion...
I fully agree. I guess that is the point I am trying to make.
CAR magazine for a British magazine is pretty poor. I do not need to read any article that concerns Porsche because I know what they have to say.
Evo is the best of the bunch but for some reason in the US he arrives a month after all the other international magazines. I know what is in it by what is posted on the chat sites before it arrives in the US.
BTW I did transpose the 0-60-62 times. Sorry.
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