Crown

918 won't be coming close to under 7min, it's only a manufacturers usual talk with everything is stock and not modified.

Nissan started it and now it's spreading like a virus, they all have an anti-criticism policy to ban from driving their cars whoever blows the whistle on them.

BiTurbo:

918 won't be coming close to under 7min, it's only a manufacturers usual talk with everything is stock and not modified.

Nissan started it and now it's spreading like a virus, they all have an anti-criticism policy to ban from driving their cars whoever blows the whistle on them.

 

I agree, it seems OEMs like Lamborghini, Mercedes act jointly to irritate and deceive customers. This is really annoying 

You have no proof, so we should be careful here.

I am willing to give all manufacturers the benefit of doubt but in the end, their cars will be reviewed at some point, so there is no hiding or deceiving. Do most of their customers actually care? I doubt it.

We need to wait for the Sport Auto Supertest in autumn but I think it is safe to say that the Huracan Performante will be fast but not under 7 minutes fast.

Considering it's price tag, design and looks, interior and engine, I think the Huracan Performante is a great offer even if it does the Nordschleife in 7:15 min.  I would be highly disappointed though, considering all that mumbo jumbo about the new revolutionary active aerodynamics, if the car would be slower. It is pretty clear that Sport Auto will review the car on Trofeo R tires but Trofeo R have been used before for the Huracan (they are approved), so I don't see a problem here as long as these very same tires are available for customers.

If Sport Auto would be fair (and manufacturers would support it), they would review these cars with both tires: The standard one and the optional one. I'm afraid however that manufacturers won't allow and/or support it. It would be so easy though: Just a second set of the optional tires would be needed, not a second car. Which would make the test results even more comparable because you can exclude performance fluctuations.

So if Sport Auto can review a manual and a PDK equipped 991.2 GT3, why not review super sportscars on standard tires and the optional semi-slicks? 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

RC:

You have no proof, so we should be careful here.

I am willing to give all manufacturers the benefit of doubt but in the end, their cars will be reviewed at some point, so there is no hiding or deceiving. Do most of their customers actually care? I doubt it.

We need to wait for the Sport Auto Supertest in autumn but I think it is safe to say that the Huracan Performante will be fast but not under 7 minutes fast.

 

The fact that Sportauto (or AutoZeitung) will only get a Supertest done in fall already tells a lot, don't you agree  The OEM hopes for many orders before the truth comes out. Same strategy as with the Mercedes GTR (Supertest in 2016, first deliveries now end of 2017)... They are looking for stupid customers 

Markus, have you seen the Huracan performance? Not talking about the new Performante.

So it is safe to assume that the new Performante will be much faster.

I am not trying to defend Lamborghini, just saying that we should wait.

Also, Lamborghini was pretty weird in the past when it came to reviews: Sport Auto claimed that Lamborghini provided them with the wrong tire pressure for Aventador testing, resulting in slower times. When Sport Auto went with their own numbers, the results were much better. Any reason for that? Why would Lamborghini mess up the test results of their own cars? 

I think Lamborghini needs to learn a little bit from Porsche, same goes to Audi with their R8 btw.. There is no marketing concept available for the R8, this is so weird. 

Sometimes I wonder if they actually want to sell their cars, one reason I was pretty surprised with the first Aventador SV record claim and now the Huracan Performante. So weird. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

Oh...speaking of honesty and tricks: Porsche used for the Panamera Turbo Nordschleife "record" of 7:38 min the Yokohama Advan Sport. Only problem: This tire is not available/certified (yet?) for the Panamera Turbo. Only the Conti SportContact 5P, Michelin Pilot Sport 4 and the Pirelli PZero. Well, what now, Markus?  

I could even start my own suspicion regarding the new PZero N1 used for all those 991.2 Turbo S press cars but I won't do it because it doesn't really matter. Fact is: Car manufacturers will always work with tricks. Most customers couldn't care less.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

RC:

Oh...speaking of honesty and tricks: Porsche used for the Panamera Turbo Nordschleife "record" of 7:38 min the Yokohama Advan Sport. Only problem: This tire is not available/certified (yet?) for the Panamera Turbo. Only the Conti SportContact 5P, Michelin Pilot Sport 4 and the Pirelli PZero. Well, what now, Markus?  

I could even start my own suspicion regarding the new PZero N1 used for all those 991.2 Turbo S press cars but I won't do it because it doesn't really matter. Fact is: Car manufacturers will always work with tricks. Most customers couldn't care less.

--

 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

 

Fact is, Porsche always delivers (customer cas) what is promised. BTW, this Panamera lap time was clearly marked as a marketing event, the car also had race seats etc.

P.s.: PZero N1 are the regular tires for this car. They are very fast but also very bad in colder and wet conditions...

MKSGR:

RC:

Oh...speaking of honesty and tricks: Porsche used for the Panamera Turbo Nordschleife "record" of 7:38 min the Yokohama Advan Sport. Only problem: This tire is not available/certified (yet?) for the Panamera Turbo. Only the Conti SportContact 5P, Michelin Pilot Sport 4 and the Pirelli PZero. Well, what now, Markus?  

I could even start my own suspicion regarding the new PZero N1 used for all those 991.2 Turbo S press cars but I won't do it because it doesn't really matter. Fact is: Car manufacturers will always work with tricks. Most customers couldn't care less.

--

 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

 

Fact is, Porsche always delivers (customer cas) what is promised. BTW, this Panamera lap time was clearly marked as a marketing event, the car also had race seats etc.

P.s.: PZero N1 are the regular tires for this car. They are very fast but also very bad in colder and wet conditions...

Did you verify that the compound mixture used on the test cars is really the one of the PZero N1?  

Yes, the new PZero is great on dry pavement but seems to suck in the wet (there is a review in the latest Sport Auto, quite interesting...including semi-slicks...noone1 would love to read this ).

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

RC:

MKSGR:

RC:

Oh...speaking of honesty and tricks: Porsche used for the Panamera Turbo Nordschleife "record" of 7:38 min the Yokohama Advan Sport. Only problem: This tire is not available/certified (yet?) for the Panamera Turbo. Only the Conti SportContact 5P, Michelin Pilot Sport 4 and the Pirelli PZero. Well, what now, Markus?  

I could even start my own suspicion regarding the new PZero N1 used for all those 991.2 Turbo S press cars but I won't do it because it doesn't really matter. Fact is: Car manufacturers will always work with tricks. Most customers couldn't care less.

--

 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

 

Fact is, Porsche always delivers (customer cas) what is promised. BTW, this Panamera lap time was clearly marked as a marketing event, the car also had race seats etc.

P.s.: PZero N1 are the regular tires for this car. They are very fast but also very bad in colder and wet conditions...

Did you verify that the compound mixture used on the test cars is really the one of the PZero N1?  

Yes, the new PZero is great on dry pavement but seems to suck in the wet (there is a review in the latest Sport Auto, quite interesting...including semi-slicks...noone1 would love to read this ).

The lap times are achievable with the tires on customer cars :-) If you have been told otherwise your source seems to intentionally mislead you...

MKSGR:

RC:

MKSGR:

RC:

Oh...speaking of honesty and tricks: Porsche used for the Panamera Turbo Nordschleife "record" of 7:38 min the Yokohama Advan Sport. Only problem: This tire is not available/certified (yet?) for the Panamera Turbo. Only the Conti SportContact 5P, Michelin Pilot Sport 4 and the Pirelli PZero. Well, what now, Markus?  

I could even start my own suspicion regarding the new PZero N1 used for all those 991.2 Turbo S press cars but I won't do it because it doesn't really matter. Fact is: Car manufacturers will always work with tricks. Most customers couldn't care less.

--

 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

 

Fact is, Porsche always delivers (customer cas) what is promised. BTW, this Panamera lap time was clearly marked as a marketing event, the car also had race seats etc.

P.s.: PZero N1 are the regular tires for this car. They are very fast but also very bad in colder and wet conditions...

Did you verify that the compound mixture used on the test cars is really the one of the PZero N1?  

Yes, the new PZero is great on dry pavement but seems to suck in the wet (there is a review in the latest Sport Auto, quite interesting...including semi-slicks...noone1 would love to read this ).

The lap times are achievable with the tires on customer cars :-) If you have been told otherwise your source seems to intentionally mislead you...

By that I mean Hockenheim - but then I assume NBR is also achievable.

MKSGR:

RC:

MKSGR:

RC:

Oh...speaking of honesty and tricks: Porsche used for the Panamera Turbo Nordschleife "record" of 7:38 min the Yokohama Advan Sport. Only problem: This tire is not available/certified (yet?) for the Panamera Turbo. Only the Conti SportContact 5P, Michelin Pilot Sport 4 and the Pirelli PZero. Well, what now, Markus?  

I could even start my own suspicion regarding the new PZero N1 used for all those 991.2 Turbo S press cars but I won't do it because it doesn't really matter. Fact is: Car manufacturers will always work with tricks. Most customers couldn't care less.

--

 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

 

Fact is, Porsche always delivers (customer cas) what is promised. BTW, this Panamera lap time was clearly marked as a marketing event, the car also had race seats etc.

P.s.: PZero N1 are the regular tires for this car. They are very fast but also very bad in colder and wet conditions...

Did you verify that the compound mixture used on the test cars is really the one of the PZero N1?  

Yes, the new PZero is great on dry pavement but seems to suck in the wet (there is a review in the latest Sport Auto, quite interesting...including semi-slicks...noone1 would love to read this ).

The lap times are achievable with the tires on customer cars :-) If you have been told otherwise your source seems to intentionally mislead you...

You misunderstood me. How do you know that the PZero N1 is not a semi-slick on the test cars? It is no problem to use the Trofeo R or Corsa compound mixture with the writing and profile of the PZero.  You always suspect Mercedes and Lamborghini but never Porsche? 

The lap times are achievable with the tires on customer cars? Even I wouldn't make this statement and I have witnessed a couple of 991.2 Turbo S on the road in comparison to other cars. 

I do not deny this but I want to show you that we need to be careful with our assumptions and suspicions. 

Btw: Next Sport Auto issue (mid of April) will cover the AMG GT-R Supertest. I am very curious. 

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

For me, the blue one please. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

Need to loose the stripe. We know, it's an Italian brand...

Interesting article as to whether the time is genuine.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/news/a32879/lamborghini-huracan-performante-nurburgring-record-faked-data/

"A man wrapped up in himself makes for a very small bundle."

RC:

 

You misunderstood me. How do you know that the PZero N1 is not a semi-slick on the test cars? It is no problem to use the Trofeo R or Corsa compound mixture with the writing and profile of the PZero.  You always suspect Mercedes and Lamborghini but never Porsche? 

 

 

Strange idea... You know that a semi-slick looks completely different to the eye than a PZero? In fact the semi-slick is completely different from its structure to the profile to the rubber mix. It is technically impossible to just use different rubber with a different tire type. Or more precisely: if one tried to do so the effect would be detrimental, i.e. performance would be crap. Tire development is a complex engineering/development project. Therefore, better not tell your idea to tire specialists...

Really bad from Lambo: a 4 or 6 point harness is not available for the Performante, at least for now ...

UNBELIEVABLE: How can a supercar manufacturer like Lambo bring out what they claim to be the fastest car around the Ring, i.e. the fastest possible car for trackdays and 'forget' to offer such an important safety feature for the car?!?  (if you want to race with a HANS system, you need a 4 or 6 point harness).

PLEASE MR. LAMBO, correct quickly this mistake and offer a retrofit solution for racing harness for track use. I have been so far a loyal Porsche GT car customer and want to switch to a Lambo Performante, but I will not order the car as long as this safety feature is not available.

991 GT3 RS / Gone: Cayman GT4, 997.2 GT3 RS 3.8, 997.2 GT3, Lotus Exige S, 964 Turbo 3.3

They don't offer it because in reality, barely anyone will use their car on the track. I don't believe Ferrari has ever offered  those either.

noone1:

They don't offer it because in reality, barely anyone will use their car on the track. I don't believe Ferrari has ever offered  those either.

Stand corrected. Never seen a car with those. I believe those aren't offered in the US.

BTW, isn't a harness bad on a street car because a harness means you should be wearing HANS all the time? That's not exactly practical for a road car...

noone1:

BTW, isn't a harness bad on a street car because a harness means you should be wearing HANS all the time? That's not exactly practical for a road car...

You can not use harness on public streets. It is illegal. My RS , for example , has both type of seat belt. 

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 

MKSGR:

RC:

 

You misunderstood me. How do you know that the PZero N1 is not a semi-slick on the test cars? It is no problem to use the Trofeo R or Corsa compound mixture with the writing and profile of the PZero.  You always suspect Mercedes and Lamborghini but never Porsche? 

 

 

Strange idea... You know that a semi-slick looks completely different to the eye than a PZero? In fact the semi-slick is completely different from its structure to the profile to the rubber mix. It is technically impossible to just use different rubber with a different tire type. Or more precisely: if one tried to do so the effect would be detrimental, i.e. performance would be crap. Tire development is a complex engineering/development project. Therefore, better not tell your idea to tire specialists...

The compound mixture is the most important thing, the profile matters too but mostly for steering precision, noise, rain performance and similar stuff. The grip comes mainly from the compound, not really from the profile of the tire. Yes, mixing both would certainly mess up things but they could develop a tire especially for reviews.  

Theoretically only though...I am just suggesting that we should give manufacturers a fair chance before we jump into conclusions.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

Gnil:

noone1:

BTW, isn't a harness bad on a street car because a harness means you should be wearing HANS all the time? That's not exactly practical for a road car...

You can not use harness on public streets. It is illegal. My RS , for example , has both type of seat belt. 

I don't think that noone1 really cares about this... 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

GoHardGT3RS:

Really bad from Lambo: a 4 or 6 point harness is not available for the Performante, at least for now ...

UNBELIEVABLE: How can a supercar manufacturer like Lambo bring out what they claim to be the fastest car around the Ring, i.e. the fastest possible car for trackdays and 'forget' to offer such an important safety feature for the car?!?  (if you want to race with a HANS system, you need a 4 or 6 point harness).

PLEASE MR. LAMBO, correct quickly this mistake and offer a retrofit solution for racing harness for track use. I have been so far a loyal Porsche GT car customer and want to switch to a Lambo Performante, but I will not order the car as long as this safety feature is not available.

The Huracan Performante is not supposed to be a raw track car as far as I understood. 

I agree however: For such a car, they should at least offer an option. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

In Europe in Porsche GT cars, you have both seat belts (regular for street use and 6-point harness for track use) coming with the Clubsport package = IDEAL SOLUTION and Lambo should offer the same!

991 GT3 RS / Gone: Cayman GT4, 997.2 GT3 RS 3.8, 997.2 GT3, Lotus Exige S, 964 Turbo 3.3

GoHardGT3RS:

In Europe in Porsche GT cars, you have both seat belts (regular for street use and 6-point harness for track use) coming with the Clubsport package = IDEAL SOLUTION and Lambo should offer the same!

Maybe Lamborghini will offer an option. Similar to Audi, they are a little bit "slow" with communication. 

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

Suprised that Noone1 doesn't know the practice of the harness on public roads: you use the regular seatbelt when driving to and from the track. You can fold the harness and stick it to the cage when you don't need it anytime soon.

It isn't illegal here though: my Donkervoort only has a harness and is allowed on the street.

997.2 4S / Donkervoort GT 

spudgun:

Suprised that Noone1 doesn't know the practice of the harness on public roads: you use the regular seatbelt when driving to and from the track. You can fold the harness and stick it to the cage when you don't need it anytime soon.

It isn't illegal here though: my Donkervoort only has a harness and is allowed on the street.

Not from Europe. In the US, we almost never get those packages due to regulation.. In the past, some sport seats weren't even legal in the US.