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Re: CGT vs 599 GTB
Well none of us have driven the 599GTB but just looking at the car gives you the impression of a car that is not as track oriented as the CGT. Just my opinion without driving the car. I am sure 599GTB is a hell of car however when Marranello 1st came out I immediately fell in love with the car. I remember there was a car show in Beverly Hills and 3 550's showed up with police escort. The crowd went wild, the car was an instant success. I am 599 will be a hit too but I like the looks of the 575 and CGT better. I am sure that the 599 will be easier to drive that the CGT which takes sometime to get used to.
Re: CGT vs 599 GTB
Quote:
BC997J said:
Maybe he meant in a straight line?? If so I still dont think the Ferrari will keep up.
Up to 200 km/h, the CGT will be a tiny tad faster. Above 200 km/h, who knows? The Sport Auto time of 34 seconds to 300 km/h for the CGT doesn't seem too confidence inspiring...
Re: CGT vs 599 GTB
Quote:
Crash said:Quote:
BC997J said:
Maybe he meant in a straight line
Up to 200 km/h, the CGT will be a tiny tad faster. Above 200 km/h, who knows? The Sport Auto time of 34 seconds to 300 km/h for the CGT doesn't seem too confidence inspiring...
In fact, 540hp in a TT are sufficient to outperform a Carrera GT by more than 5 seconds up to 300kph
That's why I call the Carrera GT an underperformer.
Re: CGT vs 599 GTB
Well the CGT has a CD of 0.396 and the 599 of 0.336. So if their frontal areas are about the same and the hp are about the same then flat out in straight line at very high speed I suppose the 599 will have it. Until you come to a corner. Then the reason for the CGT drag (downforce) and it's race orgins will make it disappear.. 
I don't agree that it would walk away above 100mph. More like 180 mph. and you will need lots of space
Both cars are great though.
I don't agree that it would walk away above 100mph. More like 180 mph. and you will need lots of space
Both cars are great though.
Re: CGT vs 599 GTB
Quote:
john999s said:
Until you come to a corner. Then the reason for the CGT drag (downforce) and it's race orgins will make it disappear..
Nope. http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_0410_exotic_coupe_comparison/drag_sound.html
Don't always believe what you read from the Porsche Brochure.
But, yes, they are both great cars.
Re: CGT vs 599 GTB
Quote:
svtrader1 said:Quote:
john999s said:
Until you come to a corner. Then the reason for the CGT drag (downforce) and it's race orgins will make it disappear..
Nope. http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_0410_exotic_coupe_comparison/drag_sound.html
Don't always believe what you read from the Porsche Brochure.
But, yes, they are both great cars.
In case of the Carrera GT, the problem is probably just insufficient engine power
This somehow reminds me of the 997TT discussion
Re: CGT vs 599 GTB
Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
svtrader1 said:Quote:
john999s said:
Until you come to a corner. Then the reason for the CGT drag (downforce) and it's race orgins will make it disappear..
Nope. http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_0410_exotic_coupe_comparison/drag_sound.html
Don't always believe what you read from the Porsche Brochure.
But, yes, they are both great cars.
In case of the Carrera GT, the problem is probably just insufficient engine power
Insuficient power?!? 600+ hp is not enough?
I don't understand why people compare the CGT to GT cars. It's not built to shoot up to top speeds better than the competition. It's basically a track car in a sheep's clothes.
I mean compare a Bugatti Veyron and a Formula 1 car. The Veyron will PROBABLY beat the F1 car to a certain topspeed because the F1 car is NOT MADE to be a straightline shooter. It's called downforce .
If you don't know what it is, consult your introductory physics handbook...
Apr 24, 2006 3:42:23 AM
- bostonmini
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Re: CGT vs 599 GTB
Not sure what you mean??
The comparison is 599 to CGT?
The short version of my comment was the 599 is slippery but will ultimately lack grip compared to the CGT which has the downside of drag but more down force.
The test results were extrapolated as well.
I'm not blind to Ferrari's (or fords or vettes for that matter) but it seems to me that comparing a CGT with a 599 is rather like comparing apples to pears.
The comparison is 599 to CGT?
The short version of my comment was the 599 is slippery but will ultimately lack grip compared to the CGT which has the downside of drag but more down force.
The test results were extrapolated as well.
I'm not blind to Ferrari's (or fords or vettes for that matter) but it seems to me that comparing a CGT with a 599 is rather like comparing apples to pears.
Re: CGT vs 599 GTB
Quote:
john999s said:
Not sure what you mean??
The comparison is 599 to CGT?
The short version of my comment was the 599 is slippery but will ultimately lack grip compared to the CGT which has the downside of drag but more down force.
The test results were extrapolated as well.
I'm not blind to Ferrari's (or fords or vettes for that matter) but it seems to me that comparing a CGT with a 599 is rather like comparing apples to pears.
I mean the level of downforce, you mentioned, generated by the CGT is greatly exaggerated. The link I provided proves that the Enzo and Ford GT have about the same amount of downforce at 200mph. But, neither the Enzo nor the Ford have the same lousy drag coefficient as the CGT.
Go back and take a look at the chart below, it shows the Enzo's mid corner speed is greater than the CGT and the Ford is about the same. That is a fact and not an extrapolated conclusion.
While comparing the 599 to CGT might be analogous to comparing apples to oranges; we're only talking about straight line performance.
I've read in some mags where they compare cars to a fighter jet. What's that analogous to? Apples to bowling balls? Yes, it's a bit silly, but, nonetheless, entertaining.
Hurst: I suggest you take a closer look at the link.
Apr 24, 2006 12:33:03 PM
- bostonmini
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Re: CGT vs 599 GTB
Quote:
svtrader1 said:Quote:
john999s said:
Not sure what you mean??
The comparison is 599 to CGT?
SVtrader-
SO in your opinion did they just do a lousy job in making the car? Im wondering what the benefit to this huge drag really is....there must be something right? the guys @ ferrari dont know THAT much more!
The short version of my comment was the 599 is slippery but will ultimately lack grip compared to the CGT which has the downside of drag but more down force.
The test results were extrapolated as well.
I'm not blind to Ferrari's (or fords or vettes for that matter) but it seems to me that comparing a CGT with a 599 is rather like comparing apples to pears.
I mean the level of downforce, you mentioned, generated by the CGT is greatly exaggerated. The link I provided proves that the Enzo and Ford GT have about the same amount of downforce at 200mph. But, neither the Enzo nor the Ford have the same lousy drag coefficient as the CGT.
Go back and take a look at the chart below, it shows the Enzo's mid corner speed is greater than the CGT and the Ford is about the same. That is a fact and not an extrapolated conclusion.
While comparing the 599 to CGT might be analogous to comparing apples to oranges; we're only talking about straight line performance.
I've read in some mags where they compare cars to a fighter jet. What's that analogous to? Apples to bowling balls? Yes, it's a bit silly, but, nonetheless, entertaining.
Hurst: I suggest you take a closer look at the link.
Re: CGT vs 599 GTB
Quote:
svtrader1 said:Quote:
john999s said:
Not sure what you mean??
The comparison is 599 to CGT?
The short version of my comment was the 599 is slippery but will ultimately lack grip compared to the CGT which has the downside of drag but more down force.
The test results were extrapolated as well.
I'm not blind to Ferrari's (or fords or vettes for that matter) but it seems to me that comparing a CGT with a 599 is rather like comparing apples to pears.
I mean the level of downforce, you mentioned, generated by the CGT is greatly exaggerated. The link I provided proves that the Enzo and Ford GT have about the same amount of downforce at 200mph. But, neither the Enzo nor the Ford have the same lousy drag coefficient as the CGT.
Go back and take a look at the chart below, it shows the Enzo's mid corner speed is greater than the CGT and the Ford is about the same. That is a fact and not an extrapolated conclusion.
While comparing the 599 to CGT might be analogous to comparing apples to oranges; we're only talking about straight line performance.
I've read in some mags where they compare cars to a fighter jet. What's that analogous to? Apples to bowling balls? Yes, it's a bit silly, but, nonetheless, entertaining.
Hurst: I suggest you take a closer look at the link.
That's the exiting corner acceleration. It has all to do with superior power. The CGT is a superior handler, compared to the Enzo, but is let down by its aerodynamics. Now, I don't know much physics, but does the drag increase linearly with the amount of downforce?
Also, svtrader, the CGT did the Figure 8 7/10ths faster than the Enzo, at 23,8 seconds, versus 24,5 for the Enzo. Porsche should have given the CGT more power.
Regarding acceleration, didn't YOU, svtrader, say that it had something to do with cooling?
Re: CGT vs 599 GTB
One thing that you may n ot have considered. Tyres. OK the CGT may have inferior Cd however if you fitted slick tyres to all cars which would come out faster then? CGT because it's an endurance racer originally and thus designed with that in mind?? Were the aerodynamics originally optimised for endurance racing-ie flat out for 24 hours with the accompanying cooling requirements etc, slicks and so-on?
I think that we're missing something her because PAG know how to make a slippery car, don't they?
I think that we're missing something her because PAG know how to make a slippery car, don't they?
Re: CGT vs 599 GTB
Quote:
john999s said:
CGT because it's an endurance racer originally and thus designed with that in mind?? Were the aerodynamics originally optimised for endurance racing-ie flat out for 24 hours with the accompanying cooling requirements etc, slicks and so-on?
Allegedly, PAG's objective was to "tame" a racing model rather than "tune up" an existing car. Though I'm far from a Porsche expert, it smells like B.S. similar to Ferrari touting their Enzo as a street version F1 constructor champion celebration car when it does not have a V10. Porsche shoulda, coulda have discreetly worked with Magneti Marelli to develop an F1 gearbox, couple it to the CGT V10 and sell it along with F1 exhaust note to Ferrari for its Enzo. And the CGT should have had a nice heritage-friendly twin turbo flat-6. LOL.
Now that I think about it, unless I am mistaken, I believe the CGT is not really a diluted street version of an endurance racer when the 911 GT1 Strasseversion exists:
Also I believe the CGT's design, aerodynamics, engine, transmission, chassis, weight, engine cooling, etc. are compromised for the combined demands of street driving, aesthetics, reliability, price, profit, etc. rather than optimized for racing flat out for 24 hours.
To my limited knowledge, the GT3 (Le Mans winner) and Turbo (959 Paris-Dakar and Le Mans) engines are closer to Porsche's racing heritage than the CGT's V10.
Anyone know if Porsche has ever won an important endurance race or world championship with a V10?
According to this link, the CGT engine started out as a secret F1 V10 engine:
http://www.mulsannescorner.com/porschelmp1.html
Would it be fair to say the CGT is probably more exciting to drive than a 959? What about CGT vs. Strasseversion?
Apr 25, 2006 1:30:48 AM
- bostonmini
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Apr 26, 2006 10:12:47 AM
- The Groom
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