CloseHuracan optical tuning can go wrong as well... 
How can someone be that cruel to the Huracan, the most beautiful sports car on the market? 
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)
Conny997:Someone should call the police...
As if the owner of this car doesn't have a good eyesight or whatever... Horrendous tuning. 
Btw: I had a new Audi S5 behind me today...with IN license plates. In the speed range 120 to 200 kph, I could barely shake him. Driver was a pretty blonde, we talked shortly at a parking lot after we exited the Autobahn near Lake Ammer. Car was officially a S5 but...I rather think it was the new RS (when I asked, the woman laughed and didn't say a word). Good driver though, she was doing 250 in a curve right behind me, brave one. 
My wife was more interested in her shoes though... 
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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)
Mar 5, 2017 10:42:26 PM
RC:Huracan optical tuning can go wrong as well...
How can someone be that cruel to the Huracan, the most beautiful sports car on the market?
Good God
How is it that the traffic on Zürich's Bahnhofstrasse consists of 100% douchebags?
2015 911 GT3, 1964 Type 1 
Mar 7, 2017 12:23:25 PM
It seems I need new summer tires...just got contacted by the company who takes care of my summer wheels...the tires need to be exchanged. Front and rear. They lasted 11000 km, oh well. 
Cost is 1300 EUR front and rear together. Could save a few bucks if I order them myself but the price also includes a tire damage insurance (whatever damage, incl. sidewalk and nails/etc.), so I guess it isn't that bad.
Not sure if I should try the Michelin Cup 2 instead but I really liked the PZero and they are great in rain, so... 
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)
Mar 7, 2017 12:38:57 PM
RC:It seems I need new summer tires...just got contacted by the company who takes care of my summer wheels...the tires need to be exchanged. Front and rear. They lasted 11000 km, oh well.
Cost is 1300 EUR front and rear together. Could save a few bucks if I order them myself but the price also includes a tire damage insurance (whatever damage, incl. sidewalk and nails/etc.), so I guess it isn't that bad.
Not sure if I should try the Michelin Cup 2 instead but I really liked the PZero and they are great in rain, so...
How about the new Michelin Pilot Sport 4 S tyres...
Link 1: http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/Michelin-Pilot-Sport-4-S-Press-Release.htm
Link 2: http://www.michelin.co.uk/tyres/michelin-pilot-sport-4-s
...apparently the new class leading summer tyres!
Mar 7, 2017 12:43:40 PM
Not approved for the R8.... I always go with manufacturer certified tires on such cars, for a good reason (AWD and specific driving modes makes it even more important to stick to manufacturer recommendations).
Theoretically, I could go with the Trofeo R from the Huracan but they are expensive, difficult to get over here in Germany (in case you have a flat tire, you can be in huge trouble) and are only really recommendable for the track.
There will be a completely new PZero available (similar to the one used on the 991.2 Turbo S) but it appears that certification isn't ready yet and it may actually appear with the facelift in 2019.
I think I am going to stick with the PZero...a good compromise for my driving.
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)
Mar 7, 2017 1:53:07 PM
I'm waiting for those PS4S tires to get the N certification for the 911 in my size, if they do they will be my next tires, have read very good things about them and being Michelin its always a plus. Don't keep my hopes up though, may never happen...
⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS
Mar 7, 2017 10:37:27 PM
Carlos from Spain:I'm waiting for those PS4S tires to get the N certification for the 911 in my size, if they do they will be my next tires, have read very good things about them and being Michelin its always a plus. Don't keep my hopes up though, may never happen...
Carlos, at the speedy rate you accumulate km on your 911, these might be the second-next set of tires.....
2011 Range Rover Sport S/C, 2009 Porsche 911S
RC:Not approved for the R8.... I always go with manufacturer certified tires on such cars, for a good reason (AWD and specific driving modes makes it even more important to stick to manufacturer recommendations).
Why? So long as the dimensions are the same, it makes no difference. Cars don't know what the tire is, they just know what it's doing. Slip or grip. How would a car know if the tires are different or if you're just on wet leaves or mud or snow or whatever?
you answered your question yourself - it is about slip or grip, which can be a little bit more or a little bit less... However, I admit, I wouldn't notice a difference either, it is just that I would like to have the best safety margin available if something goes really south...
Mar 8, 2017 7:59:17 AM
What you do have is varying levels of vertical and horizontal tyre wall rigidity. The suspension is optimised to work in tandem with tyres with certain characteristics. This is one reason why they have manufacturer-specific models. Introduce some different numbers for these parameters and you will compromise the performance to some degree.
On the other hand, by updating to a newer model of tyre, you might bring more benefits than you (may or may not) stand to lose.
2015 911 GT3, 1964 Type 1
noone1:RC:Not approved for the R8.... I always go with manufacturer certified tires on such cars, for a good reason (AWD and specific driving modes makes it even more important to stick to manufacturer recommendations).
Why? So long as the dimensions are the same, it makes no difference. Cars don't know what the tire is, they just know what it's doing. Slip or grip. How would a car know if the tires are different or if you're just on wet leaves or mud or snow or whatever?
Now I clearly know that you don't care about how a car drives. Tires are the most important part on a car and the differences between tires are shockingly big. Also, I witnessed a tire testing day at Porsche and I can assure you that they put so much energy and work into tire development that I would never ever use a different tire than the recommended one, especially for road use.
Manufacturer specific tires cost basically the same in Germany, so cost is certainly no reason not to go for them. I know that many tire dealers try to tell customers that this is just a marketing gimmick but it isn't. It is more difficult for tire dealers to get better deals on manufacturer certified tires (Porsche with their N rated tires, Audi with their R rated tires and so on...), so they usually try to sell customers non-manufacturer rated/certified tires and customers unfortunately fall for it. 
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)
Mar 8, 2017 9:10:29 AM
DaveGordon:What you do have is varying levels of vertical and horizontal tyre wall rigidity. The suspension is optimised to work in tandem with tyres with certain characteristics. This is one reason why they have manufacturer-specific models. Introduce some different numbers for these parameters and you will compromise the performance to some degree.
On the other hand, by updating to a newer model of tyre, you might bring more benefits than you (may or may not) stand to lose.
True but it is difficult to know without testing.
Especially for AWD cars with various driving modes, using a generic tire is not a clever thing to do. Same goes to the 911 with it's specific weight distribution.
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)
d997h:you answered your question yourself - it is about slip or grip, which can be a little bit more or a little bit less... However, I admit, I wouldn't notice a difference either, it is just that I would like to have the best safety margin available if something goes really south...
You notice the difference at the limit and in various driving modes.
Tires can improve but also ruin the driving experience. In my opinion, they are the most important thing on a car (besides the engine 
), so I wouldn't play around with setups. I leave that to the courageous...or clueless. 
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)
Mar 8, 2017 11:16:44 AM
noone1:RC:Not approved for the R8.... I always go with manufacturer certified tires on such cars, for a good reason (AWD and specific driving modes makes it even more important to stick to manufacturer recommendations).
Why? So long as the dimensions are the same, it makes no difference. Cars don't know what the tire is, they just know what it's doing. Slip or grip. How would a car know if the tires are different or if you're just on wet leaves or mud or snow or whatever?
Manufacturer approved tires are specifically tested by the manufacturer so that the handling dynamics, wear, reactions, etc are optimal for the car's characteristics. Would you put standard universal suspensions on your car or do they need to be OEM and adapted to your car's chasis and characteristics? tires are less sensitive to car's characteristics but its no different in concept, tires behave different on different cars.
A rear engined 911 with the weight on the rear wheels places completely different stresses on the rear tires than a front engined SLR, then there is the effect of different suspension geometries and setups, the different electronic handling systems, and so on. Using general standard universal tires on cars may be OK on a small people mover, but for performance cars its a thing of the past, we have evolved from that.
Porsche tests the tires on their own race track and check for how they behave and handle, how the lose traction on the limit, how the react in emergency maneuvers, that there is no uneven wears with miles, how it grips on wet, how it resists standing water, etc and then based on this offer their recommendations to the manufacturer so as to modify it until they are satisfied with the result and give it the N rating.
Fitting the standard model without the rating you just don't know what you are getting, and you don't have the means to be able to find out yourself, there are some exceptions were you do know like the PSS on a 997 which are not N rated but were developed by Michelin using a 997 as test car, and there is plenty of experience from people on and off track reporting that they work really good on the 997, but these cases are very very few, any other and you are taking a gamble unless you use your sportscar just to go to out for dinner or a cruise down the block.
⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS
Mar 8, 2017 2:32:52 PM
DaveGordon:What you do have is varying levels of vertical and horizontal tyre wall rigidity. The suspension is optimised to work in tandem with tyres with certain characteristics. This is one reason why they have manufacturer-specific models. Introduce some different numbers for these parameters and you will compromise the performance to some degree.
On the other hand, by updating to a newer model of tyre, you might bring more benefits than you (may or may not) stand to lose.
As long as you use a better tire, then everything just gets better. Just look at how many people swap their standard Pzeros for MPSS in recent years as P fell way behind in performance. Pzeros were shit and they were coming on every car. Every R8 owner was switching to MPSS when they needed new tires.
RC:DaveGordon:What you do have is varying levels of vertical and horizontal tyre wall rigidity. The suspension is optimised to work in tandem with tyres with certain characteristics. This is one reason why they have manufacturer-specific models. Introduce some different numbers for these parameters and you will compromise the performance to some degree.
On the other hand, by updating to a newer model of tyre, you might bring more benefits than you (may or may not) stand to lose.
True but it is difficult to know without testing.
Especially for AWD cars with various driving modes, using a generic tire is not a clever thing to do. Same goes to the 911 with it's specific weight distribution.
No, it's not really. The R8 doesn't care what tire you use. It doesn't have a setting on the car to tell it what tire you're using.
If it mattered so much, how would the R8 know if you're using winter tires, Pzeros, Trofeos, or those other weird tires they've tested with some times? There's no setting on the car. It doesn't know what the tread is like or how much is left. It doesn't know what the road is like.
I had stock Pzeros on my R8. I switched to Toyo R8 when I tracked it (and on the street for a while,) and ultimately ended up on MPSS. There were no problems with any of these and the latter two were simply superior.
Also, do you guys really think a manufacturer is going to sell a car that fucks up when you put the wrong brand tire on it? You think they want the liability of you crashing because you merely using the wrong spec P zero or opt for another brand? They are just going to let their car sit in the shop because no one carries an N0 spec any they have a flat? Not happening. People put all sorts of shit on their cars and they're fine.
noone1:RC:DaveGordon:What you do have is varying levels of vertical and horizontal tyre wall rigidity. The suspension is optimised to work in tandem with tyres with certain characteristics. This is one reason why they have manufacturer-specific models. Introduce some different numbers for these parameters and you will compromise the performance to some degree.
On the other hand, by updating to a newer model of tyre, you might bring more benefits than you (may or may not) stand to lose.
True but it is difficult to know without testing.
Especially for AWD cars with various driving modes, using a generic tire is not a clever thing to do. Same goes to the 911 with it's specific weight distribution.
No, it's not really. The R8 doesn't care what tire you use. It doesn't have a setting on the car to tell it what tire you're using.
If it mattered so much, how would the R8 know if you're using winter tires, Pzeros, Trofeos, or those other weird tires they've tested with some times? There's no setting on the car. It doesn't know what the tread is like or how much is left. It doesn't know what the road is like.
I had stock Pzeros on my R8. I switched to Toyo R8 when I tracked it (and on the street for a while,) and ultimately ended up on MPSS. There were no problems with any of these and the latter two were simply superior.
You won't feel a difference if you drive slow.
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)
Noone1, you contradict yourself.
Indeed, the car doesn't know what tires it is equipped with. So the engineers of the car they put on some tires with specific characteristics and then tune the setup of the car, so it shows the behavior they think is good.
Then the end-user comes by and puts some other tires on the car. Indeed, the car doesn't know it, so it can not alter it's setup. so it has the setup for tire A, and it is now equipped with tire B, which may (or not) lead to unwanted results....
To be honest, I find it quite stunning that you sit here with dry eyes telling the world that it doesn't matter what tires you put on your car. Even a 12 year old understands that the tires -being the connection between car and road- are a huge (or should I say "yuuuge"?) influence on the behavior, safety and comfort of it.
Porsche, separates Le Mans from Le Boys
Joost:Noone1, you contradict yourself.
Indeed, the car doesn't know what tires it is equipped with. So the engineers of the car they put on some tires with specific characteristics and then tune the setup of the car, so it shows the behavior they think is good.
Then the end-user comes by and puts some other tires on the car. Indeed, the car doesn't know it, so it can not alter it's setup. so it has the setup for tire A, and it is now equipped with tire B, which may (or not) lead to unwanted results....To be honest, I find it quite stunning that you sit here with dry eyes telling the world that it doesn't matter what tires you put on your car. Even a 12 year old understands that the tires -being the connection between car and road- are a huge (or should I say "yuuuge"?) influence on the behavior, safety and comfort of it.
If noone1 would be right, there wouldn't be a difference between the PZero, the MSS or any other tire.
The PZero has a bad reputation it doesn't really deserve in my opinion. It is an excellent multi-purpose tire if the tire pressure is correct and if you don't expect wonders. Some tires may be stickier but stickier can also create problems at the limit. When the oversteer or understeer come abruptly and not smooth and gradient, you know what I'm talking about.
Tire development is an art, it is amazing what I saw during that day I had the honor to witness testing and logging. Same tires, even same profile but different compound mixtures...amazing differences.
When you witness stuff like that once, you chance your opinion about tires and tire setups completely. For me, it was a revelation and since that time, I use only factory recommended tires.
My former GT500 is the best example on how tires can mess up handling and drive feel: The OEM tires, Goodyear semi-slicks, were horrible to drive in the wet and at lower temps, so I switched to three(!) different tires (Pirelli, Michelin, Conti). All these tires had the major issue of having to be used at higher tire pressures (the Goodyear OEM was certified at 2.4 bar front and rear, even at Vmax, while the other tires needed for the same purpose at least 3.2 to 3.4 bar). Can you imagine what a difference in handling up to one bar tire pressure makes? I chose the PZero and went for a 3.0 bar tire pressure, which also limited my top speed to 300 kph (which wasn't a problem). Even at 3.0 bar, the PZero was horrible but better in the wet and at low temps than the OEM Goodyear. Some people I know were driving 2.4 bar with the new tires but this is very risky. Michelin even refused to give their MSS a certification for the GT500 in Germany (I asked!) because even at lower speeds around 300 kph, the tire wouldn't be safe on this car.
Tires are the most important part of your car, don't mess around with them. Especially if you plan to drive it at the limit and/or very fast.
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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)
Mar 9, 2017 9:45:47 AM
Joost:To be honest, I find it quite stunning that you sit here with dry eyes telling the world that it doesn't matter what tires you put on your car.
But the different tires still get the same number of compliments and photos so what is the difference? 
⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS
Mar 9, 2017 2:36:15 PM
OK, here is an interesting thing I just found out.
Many of you may not know but in Germany, right now, it is pretty difficult to get an insurance for an Audi R8. Most insurance companies don't want to insure the car and the Audi offered insurance is way more expensive.
Every insurance request is individually analyzed and in 99% of the cases...declined.
Today I found out why: Apparently, the Audi R8, similar to the Huracan, is totaled(!) when hit from the side. The space frame repair (carbon part) is apparently impossible. Probably also one reason why someone should not buy this car but lease it. 
Btw: This seems to be valid for other supersportscars as well, one reason why many sportscar enthusiasts may have problems in the future. This whole insurance problem seems to be new for 2017 since they did a new evaluation of the risks. Valid for Germany only, can't talk about other countries.
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)
Joost:Noone1, you contradict yourself.
Indeed, the car doesn't know what tires it is equipped with. So the engineers of the car they put on some tires with specific characteristics and then tune the setup of the car, so it shows the behavior they think is good.
Then the end-user comes by and puts some other tires on the car. Indeed, the car doesn't know it, so it can not alter it's setup. so it has the setup for tire A, and it is now equipped with tire B, which may (or not) lead to unwanted results....To be honest, I find it quite stunning that you sit here with dry eyes telling the world that it doesn't matter what tires you put on your car. Even a 12 year old understands that the tires -being the connection between car and road- are a huge (or should I say "yuuuge"?) influence on the behavior, safety and comfort of it.
And how do you explain cars that don't have manufacturer specific tires? Their computers are just better? I guess Porsche should hire some of the brilliant engineers at GM and the Corvette team to write their software...
Changing the handling characteristics doesn't mean it makes the car worse. McLaren tuned the 570S for less grip just because that's what people wanted, not because it's better like that. They put 275s in the rear and don't offer Trofeos simply because they wanted it to have less grip and be slower. They didn't even originally offer a Trofeo R tire, They ended up offering it later. People were running them fine before and after they came out with MC-spec.
People have been running non-manufacturer specific tires for ages with no problems at all. Do you think all the track junkies out there are just using stock tires? Just go to the track and see how many manufacturer spec tires you see.
If the computer can handle bald, 20K mile Pzeros and max-grip, 20 mile, warmed up Trofeo Rs, I'm pretty sure it can handle everything in between just fine, whether it's manufacturer spec or not. The issue with slicks is often that they create a G load that is actually too great for the car and certain components. This isn't a problem with any past or current road legal tire on high-performance cars.
My dealer had no problem putting MPSS on my R8. There were no warranty issues. Everyone and their brother replaced the R8 with all sorts of stuff and they all lived happily ever after.
A car does not burst into flames because you didn't use N0 or whatever tires.
noone1:Joost:Noone1, you contradict yourself.
Indeed, the car doesn't know what tires it is equipped with. So the engineers of the car they put on some tires with specific characteristics and then tune the setup of the car, so it shows the behavior they think is good.
Then the end-user comes by and puts some other tires on the car. Indeed, the car doesn't know it, so it can not alter it's setup. so it has the setup for tire A, and it is now equipped with tire B, which may (or not) lead to unwanted results....To be honest, I find it quite stunning that you sit here with dry eyes telling the world that it doesn't matter what tires you put on your car. Even a 12 year old understands that the tires -being the connection between car and road- are a huge (or should I say "yuuuge"?) influence on the behavior, safety and comfort of it.
And how do you explain cars that don't have manufacturer specific tires? Their computers are just better? I guess Porsche should hire some of the brilliant engineers at GM and the Corvette team to write their software...
Most high performance cars have specific tires.
Changing the handling characteristics doesn't mean it makes the car worse. McLaren tuned the 570S for less grip just because that's what people wanted, not because it's better like that. They put 275s in the rear and don't offer Trofeos simply because they wanted it to have less grip and be slower. They didn't even originally offer a Trofeo R tire, They ended up offering it later. People were running them fine before and after they came out with MC-spec.
Changing the handling characteristics can be a good or a bad thing. The problem is that most drivers cannot adapt to ten different available handling characteristics at a time and most of them usually trust the manufacturer's development and a smooth transition from a controlled state of driving to a not so controlled driving state.
People are running them fine? Most sportscar drivers I know don't even scratch the limit, not even on a closed track. They think they do...
People have been running non-manufacturer specific tires for ages with no problems at all. Do you think all the track junkies out there are just using stock tires? Just go to the track and see how many manufacturer spec tires you see.
Of course but if people drink alcohol and drink themselves into a coma, should I do the same? I have a brain.
If the computer can handle bald, 20K mile Pzeros and max-grip, 20 mile, warmed up Trofeo Rs, I'm pretty sure it can handle everything in between just fine, whether it's manufacturer spec or not. The issue with slicks is often that they create a G load that is actually too great for the car and certain components. This isn't a problem with any past or current road legal tire on high-performance cars.
The problem is not the software mapping of the software, there is a certain error margin programmed in for various reasons (tire wear, weather/temps, asphalt grip, etc. etc. etc.). but how the tire reacts in certain situations and with certain driving modes. If the tire sidewall is too stiff, the car can flip over at certain extreme driving situations. If the sidewall is not stiff enough, the car can get out of control...there are so many examples of how tires are different.
You contradict yourself: Either all tires are the same, then your theory is correct or they aren't. Take a pick.
My dealer had no problem putting MPSS on my R8. There were no warranty issues. Everyone and their brother replaced the R8 with all sorts of stuff and they all lived happily ever after.
There could be warranty issues if the AWD or drivetrain parts are damaged. Could...because I never heard of that but I was never talking about the warranty. I was talking about driving behavior and control in extreme driving situations.
Your dealer? You trust your dealer when it comes to the safety and performance of your car? My tire dealer wanted to repair a 20'' tire on my GTS Cab and when I told him that this is dangerous, he was making fun of me (sales person). I wrote Pirelli about that and they had a serious chat with him. I received an apology letter and a 100 EUR voucher for a next tire purchase. Changed the tire at my Porsche dealership, even if it costed me a few bucks more. I don't like to give my business to idiots.
A car does not burst into flames because you didn't use N0 or whatever tires.
No, of course not. But in extreme driving situations, the tire makes the difference between loosing control and not loosing control. One kph of speed and one grade of an angle can make a difference. Only if you drive fast though. 
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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)
And so what happens when you have a 10 year old car whose tires/compounds don't exist anymore? How long do you think they're going to supply 2005 era compounds and tire specs?
The idea that different tires will react so poorly at the limit is irrelevant, because all tires react poorly at their limit. That's why it's called the limit.
If you crash your R8, it's not because you used MPSS instead of Corsas, or vice versa. It's because you're a moron and were going to crash your R8 anyway, regardless of your tires. The limits of all these tires are so high that you literally have to be doing something stupid to have issues with them.
RC, you drive in extreme conditions and push your car's performance. In the US, 99.99% of the people don't. Have you ever heard of a story where tire swap were responsible for an accident on a sport car? (Not talking about using old or worn out tires).
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