Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Brakes Broken After Track Day !

Apr 19, 2006 5:57:02 PM

SuperSportBilly: Newbie; Loc: UK; Posts: 14, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 22, 2005

Brakes Broken After Track Day !

I went on a novice trackday at Bedford Autodrome. What a great day. Well organised - good run off. Had some instruction which was well worth it.

I have a 997 C2 Cab - the rear traction was amazing. Full throttle out of hairpins and the PSM only kicked in once when running a little wide across the grasscrete (change in surface).

Anyway on the very last run of the day the brakes faded badly. I had cooled brakes after each series of laps and in 15-20 minute stints noticed no significant fade. In fact they were great until the last run.

I thought they might sort themselves out but they are too spongy and have lost the bite. I have the car booked in tomorrow to have them looked at. Hopefully I will just need them bled and new fluid put in. I will be doing occasional trackdays - no more than 5 a year. Should I ask for or take any particular type of brake fluid ?

Hoping its nothing more serious.

Thanks

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Apr 19, 2006 6:34:51 PM

Grant: Rennteam Master; Loc: Denver, CO USA , United States; Posts: 5794, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: SuperSportBilly

Re: Brakes Broken After Track Day !

Yes, go with hi-temp fluid (Ate Blue or Gold for budget or Castrol SRF for premium). You might also investigate buying a set of Pagid racing pads (I love the RS19 Yellows)for your trackdays. They can be swapped for street pads in about 5 minutes per wheel and back again when you're done with the track. Buying pads for road & track is a big compromise for both settings...

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Apr 19, 2006 6:47:39 PM

rhino: Expert; Loc: Island , Saint Lucia; Posts: 1951, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 26, 2006; Reply to: SuperSportBilly

Re: Brakes Broken After Track Day !

Any pics of your track day or cab? Sounds like fun

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Apr 19, 2006 8:09:02 PM

JJBlade: Co-Pilot; Loc: UK; Posts: 190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 11, 2005; Reply to: SuperSportBilly

Re: Brakes Broken After Track Day !

Quote:
SuperSportBilly said:
I went on a novice trackday at Bedford Autodrome. What a great day. Well organised - good run off. Had some instruction which was well worth it.

I have a 997 C2 Cab - the rear traction was amazing. Full throttle out of hairpins and the PSM only kicked in once when running a little wide across the grasscrete (change in surface).

Anyway on the very last run of the day the brakes faded badly. I had cooled brakes after each series of laps and in 15-20 minute stints noticed no significant fade. In fact they were great until the last run.

I thought they might sort themselves out but they are too spongy and have lost the bite. I have the car booked in tomorrow to have them looked at. Hopefully I will just need them bled and new fluid put in. I will be doing occasional trackdays - no more than 5 a year. Should I ask for or take any particular type of brake fluid ?

Hoping its nothing more serious.

Thanks

You were right to cool off your brakes as that helps but i find it surprising that you got fade in just one day. I have tracked my car and never had any problems around Donington/Oulton and a few other airfields.

This leads me to a couple of possible problems.

1) your brakes are knackered (no idea what mileage your car has done)
2) you are possibly using the brakes too much. This may sound weird as how else do you slow for a corner

The common problem is that many trackdayers hold on to the brake pedal for much longer than is nescessary building up a huge excess of heat. Braking is far more effective if you brake heavily for a shorter period and then straight off the brakes. I am not knocking your driving as I have no idea if that is the problem but it is possible.

Tell us what the OPC think?

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Apr 19, 2006 11:09:37 PM

SuperSportBilly: Newbie; Loc: UK; Posts: 14, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 22, 2005; Reply to: JJBlade

Re: Brakes Broken After Track Day !

Car done approx 9,500 miles.

We used the car hard all day - my Dad for 20mins then rest for 20 mins and then me for 20 mins.

Following instruction I learned to use the brakes differently - to brake hard early to set car up. Rather than gradually and then more firmly as you tend to on road.

I don`t think we were that hard on them though. It is a fast track with a couple of big stops - 110 mph to 30. We tried to do some laps without touching the brakes - just using the gears for engine braking. Suprisingly quick and smooth.

Thanks Grant for the tips re: fluid - I`ll ask the garage what they have. I`ll also look into track day pads.

However, I may now look into a cheaper track day car - Scooby / Audi Quattro spinnng near me made me feel a little nervous with Pounds65K of uninsured car !

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Apr 19, 2006 11:18:49 PM

Kevin034: Pilot; Loc: WA; Posts: 393, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 7, 2005; Reply to: SuperSportBilly

Re: Brakes Broken After Track Day !

sounds like bubbles in the lines, no big problems. Glad to hear you had a good time!

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Apr 19, 2006 11:22:29 PM

964C2: Expert; Loc: Dallas, TX , United States; Posts: 1434, Gallery; Registered on: May 11, 2004; Reply to: Kevin034

Re: Brakes Broken After Track Day !

A good practise is to bleed your brakes before every track day.

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Apr 20, 2006 1:47:57 AM

Trundle_GT3: Veteran; Loc: CA, USA; Posts: 983, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 30, 2003; Reply to: JJBlade

Re: Brakes Broken After Track Day !

Quote:
JJBlade said:
Quote:
SuperSportBilly said:

Anyway on the very last run of the day the brakes faded badly. I had cooled brakes after each series of laps and in 15-20 minute stints noticed no significant fade. In fact they were great until the last run.

You were right to cool off your brakes as that helps but i find it surprising that you got fade in just one day. I have tracked my car and never had any problems around Donington/Oulton and a few other airfields.

This leads me to a couple of possible problems.

1) your brakes are knackered (no idea what mileage your car has done)
2) you are possibly using the brakes too much. This may sound weird as how else do you slow for a corner The common problem is that many trackdayers hold on to the brake pedal for much longer than is nescessary building up a huge excess of heat. Braking is far more effective if you brake heavily for a shorter period and then straight off the brakes. I am not knocking your driving as I have no idea if that is the problem but it is possible.

Tell us what the OPC think?

I tend to agree with Blade that it was more to do with your braking technique that lead to your troubles.
Most likely you wer applying the brakes in a more "street driving" progressive application, building up exessive heat.

The preferred method is a threshold application, keeping the tire at the "threshold"of lockup to minimize stopping distance, where initial application is close to 100% application and trailing off as speed decreases=
Maximum braking for the shortest amount of time.

Porsche brakes are the "Finest" and are not prone to fading if used properly.

If you have ever taken a "Hot Lap" with a pro driver, one thing that you will notice is how strong the initial application of the brakes is...very high negative G forces.

Brake pads that were worn to less than 50% could also contribute to the fade problem in conjunction with ill technique.

My 2c

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