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    What would you buy?

    Maybe we did it before, but I just need some fresh thoughts.
    Cayman S or 997 Carrera? We don't talk about the Carrera S. Thinking that the Cayman with a little bit of extras gets too close to the Carrera. I like the Cayman, but in the same time its just not the most desirable car from Porsche, or is it? How much it will be the difference between the two cars with the same optionals? And do the same optionals cost the same for both cars?

    Re: What would you buy?

    I originally ordered my first Porsche Feb 2004, a Boxster S fully loaded. Couple weeks after I decided to change the order to a 997 because I too thought the Boxster was not the 'desireable' car from Porsche. Now that I've crossed that bridge from 'dreamer' to owner, my perspective has changed somewhat. Make no mistake, I absolutely LOVE my 997C2; I still go into the garage just to look at it and burst into happy dance every chance I get. I still lust for a GT3 although with all that's going on in life it will be a long while until I can afford one. But the Cayman is defenitely worth a real good look as far as I'm concerned.

    I plan on test driving a Cayman later this week; I want to see what all the hubbub is about. Now that I've had decent mileage under my belt with my 997C2, I'll be able to really feel the fifferences between the two cars especially power wise.

    I test drove the Boxster S several times and absolutely loved the way it handled. Driving back to back with a 996 I could feel the tail heaviness of the 911. But now that I'm used to the feeling of my 997 engine placement, I'm very curious to try a Cayman out.

    I'm sure I'll be over the moon about the balance, but I have reservations about the power delivery. I've read that it's not enough for the chassis, but others have said it's just as fast as my 997 in the real world.

    Re: What would you buy?

    The standard equipment in the Carrera and the Cayman S are exactly the same, except for the following, which are not included in the Cayman S:
    - PCM w/o nav (PCM w/ nav is Euro 800 more expensive)
    - Partial-leather seats ( Euro 1,100. Leather seats are more expensive to take that into account, on the other hand there is less area to cover with leather so a full leather interior is exactly the same as in a Carrera)
    - Auto a/c ( Euro 450)
    - Alarm ( Euro 200)
    A Euro 15,000 / 16,000 difference.

    However, you're already losing Euro 5,000 as soon as you drive off the lot. Indeed, I predict a pre-owned Cayman S will sell for the same as a similar Boxster S (if not less). You're basically paying a Euro 5,000 goodwill for the Cayman. You have to take this write-off into account when comparing the prices of a Cayman S and of a Carrera.

    This reduces the price advantage to Euro 10,000. It's up to you. I'd take the 911. But I wouldn't decide anything before driving both back to back.


    Cayman S
    + cheaper
    + more nimble
    + arguably more fun to drive
    + same performance
    - lesser image ("Wannabe Porsche", "hairdresser car"...)

    Carrera:
    + iconic heritage (it's THE Porsche whatever happens)
    + rear seats
    - more expensive

    Re: What would you buy?

    I basically wanted and still want the Cayman. However, last week I got really desperate as my Cayman doesnt arrive till May. I went by the showroom & they had 1 yellow with black fully loaded Cayman with only 1,000 kms. However, as yellow is not my facorite color, I looked around the showroom & I saw Carrera & inquired about it. I was told that normal delivery if ordered now is 6 months for Carrera. That particular one (black with beige) was an unwantede gift with virtually zero mileage. So I requested a back to back test drives of Carrera & Cayman.

    I drove the Carrera first as I had driven Caymans before but never a Carrera. I took the same route & speeds for both drives. The Carrera was nice, definitely more powerful. However, the front-end felt light at high speeds, perhaps due to the rear engine.

    I drove the Cayman immediately after the Carrera. I realized in the first few seconds that we are not taking about the same thing. The Cayman is really really stable. one would be confident doing any kind of driving in a Cayman. In the Carrera, as guess as they say, you should know how to drive it to manage. With the Cayman, you can run into sharp turns & let the Cayman do the worrying. It's handling is amazing.

    After both drives, I came to this conclusion. My next P will be Cayman. If I ever buy a Carrera it will be for the "status", not the drive. As far as the drive is concerned, Cayman is king!

    I've been reading all this talk about mid & rear engines since the Cayman was launched. Now I understand what the writers of these articles meant.

    Re: What would you buy?

    What 03LX470 said is totally right. Other than the 2 seats in the back (useless) getting into the 997 is merely for the status. Cayman looks draws as much attention (and possibly more) than the carrera. So if you are into looks, there is no compromise. The fact that it is a new porsche also drew my attention. As much as I originally wanted a 997 (we all went thru that) the Cayman after I did my first drive, was the real winner. Ed, dont take my words for it, go do a test drive. After that you tell me. Now my next dream car would be a cayman turbo or RS, or a 997 TT or GT3. For now, the Cayman is my king.

    Re: What would you buy?

    I disagree. I cannot tell how many times the backup rear seats saved the day when I had my 996. Also, I want a targa roof...
    I do agree however that the Cayman is a formidable machine, and is more fun to drive. It is a shame it is intentionally underpowered, though. I wish Porsche sold Cayman and 911 with the same engines at the same price.


    A clarification regarding I wrote in my earlier post about the lesser image and the slurs thrown at Boxster/Cayman drivers: I hate people who say that. Unfortunately, it is a fact that some people do think that way, and you must be prepared to have to cope with that at some point. Imagine a Chevy driver mocking you for driving a Cayman, for not driving a real Porsche. It's absurd, it's unwarranted, but it will happen.
    Of course, at the end of the day, you bought your car for yourself, not for what other people think.

    Re: What would you buy?

    agree, but how would 2 practically useless backup rear seats save your day? If you look at the cargo space in the Cayman S compared to the 997, tell me if I am missing something? saludos amigo!

    Re: What would you buy?

    Either Cayman S or 997S!

    Re: What would you buy?

    Two chicks at the same time! Try that with any other sports car

    Oh, and you can drive your kids to school too!


    More seriously, there is no such thing as "too many seats". Friends, parents, kids, co-workers... you never know what's coming next. I'll take driving my Porsche over being a passenger in someone else's roomier car any day.

    Re: What would you buy?

    Thanks to all of you, but still really really difficult to choose!!!

    Re: What would you buy?

    I done a poll like this already , that one was close to..

    throt...

    Re: What would you buy?

    Quote:
    The Groom said:
    Two chicks at the same time! Try that with any other sports car




    I don't care how many seats you have, that would still be impossible!

    Or did you mean taking them out to dinner at the same time?

    Re: What would you buy?

    No, I don't have a midget fetish, if that's what you're asking! And I don't work at a circus either.

    But I sure would have hated to have to leave one of them on the sidewalk that night.

    Re: What would you buy?

    Sorry in advance for the long post but here's my two cents:

    I drove a Cayman S today. In fact I tested it twice within an hour, in an effort to compare it to my 997C2.

    I drove my 997 for a good two hours before stopping at the dealer, so the feel of transitioning from one car to the other wouldn't be lost or diluted. A beautiful black Cayman fitted with 18's and no options to weigh it down other than heated seats and Bose. I hoped they had one with sport chrono and PASM but since I'm considering PSS9's and perhaps an ECU flash I wanted to try a very basic Cayman as well anyway.

    The Cayman's exterior is very masculine indeed. The nose looks more agressive than my Carrera, and the haunches of the rear fenders looked very 'race car-ish' to me. Very Cool. But to be honest I think I still prefer the large hips of my 997's rear fenders. The 997's rear looks a bit larger than the rest of the car proportionally, whereas the Cayman's rear seems shorter than the rest of the car. It's difficult for me to explain, but I wound up preferring the bigger butt of my car. Nonetheless, the Cayman's lines flow extremely well, and that rear hatch is just trick! I think I can put two golf bags in there!

    Inside the cockpit the first thing that caught my eye were the vents; not as appealing as the 997, but no big deal; I can get use to them. Just a taste preference that popped a flag when I got in the car. The other item that came to my attention was the lack of a oil temperature gauge. I've come to live by that gauge in my 997. I don't dip into the throttle until oil temps are up no matter what the water temp gauge is telling me. That's one item that should be standard in every P-car as far as I'm concerned.

    On to the driving portion of my visit. Being a new car, the salesman asked me to keep the revs under 5200rpms, which is something he didn't need to tell me- I would've kept it under 4500rpms. But since he said 5200rps, I figured what the hec, 5200rpms it is! It took it easy for awhile (trying to make sure oil temps came up- unfortunately no way to know), but was able to take a few bends on the 2-way road we were on. I could tell right after the first corner the Cayman felt better in the turn. A few more corners, and one hairpin turn that I was able to take at about 7/10ths, accelerating hard throughout of the corner. "YESSSS!!!" is what I yelled to my salesguy. "That was guuuud!" A long stretch of straightaway followed, and this is where I had an opportunity to test torque of the car at different speeds and gears.

    Off the line I could feel the taller first gear compared to my 997. It's quite a bit of difference. My 997 has quite a bit of grunt in first gear. Funny thing is it reminds my of an old VW beetle's first gear. Engage the clutch off the line, give it firm throttle and "VRAAAP!", immediately grab for second. Nothing near that in the Cayman, it almost felt like I was taking off in second gear. No matter though, this car isn't designed for the "Stoplight Grand Prix". Just something that stood out during my comparison. Acceleration in second gear felt very close to my 997, but in third I could feel quite a bit of difference, and more so in fourth. Rolling the throttle on and off, checking response and torque, etc. the Cayman really feels underpowered in this area. Again, I didn't go past 5200rpm, but even so, I did enough on/off throttling in each gear (1-4) to get a good comparison feel.

    The last part of the test drive route took me through a high speed off camber turn, and boy let me tell you, the Cayman handled it like a champ! No hint of any surprise, no complaints, nada. Just beautiful!

    After talking numbers and contemplating whether or not I want to trade my C2 for a Cayman, I asked if we could take the Cayman S out again, so we did and repeated the same route, and I took each turn more agressively than the first outing. After returning I told them I needed to think about this and I'd get back to them with a decision.

    I hopped back into my 997 and immediately took the same route we just drove twice with the Cayman S. I can tell you without a doubt the 997C2 3.6 is still substantially more powerful everywhere in the rev range. Of course no G-Tech Pro mounted to my windshield, but my butt dyno felt a pretty big difference in every gear. And believe me, I was really hoping to get the opposite feeling. In the turns I was even more aggressive (being that it's my car, no passenger to be responsible for, etc.) and although I could feel the heaviness of the rear fighting the massive amount of mechanical grip generated by the highly evolved suspension of the 911, it wasn't as unstable (at least at that speed) as I anticipated. I will say however, if I pushed much more I might have found myself trying to recover from something so unexpected I probably wouldn't recover. That's where the Cayman really shines in my opinion. If I pushed past my limit in a corner, I feel that the car won't penalise me and I could have a chance at recovery, where with the 911 I might be toast.

    To sum up my long ass diatribe, I found the Cayman S just an incredible car. I walked away knowing that it has got to be one of the best handling cars on the market. But to be perfectly honest I'm still deciding if it's enough to lure me away from my 997. As I stated, the I think the Cayman wins in the handling dept hands down. That said, I found my 997C2 no slouch either! It's really just a great testament to Porsche designing such great products. Do we pay through the ass for this emotional therapy? Hell yes, but boooooy it's worth it!

    Another concern I have is availability of mods. I don't have a ton of money to do a 3.8 conversion, but mods like intake, full exhaust, racing seats, harness bar, and perhaps an ECU flash are readily available for the 997 (which btw brings me on par with 997S perf) but what can be done with the Cayman S? I haven't seen much out there other than full on conversions which is out of the question. What can I do to the Cayman which won't void warranty and how much power should I be able to expect from those mods? I say this is a pretty large concern for me because I feel the Cayman really does lack in the power department compared to my 997. I'd like to to feel at least on par with my current ride, even if I have to mod it a bit that's fine. I think it is in the power delivery department that would make or break my decision. I really like the torque my 997 puts out in comparison the the Cayman.

    All in all a tough decision. But happiness awaits either way. If you are coming from past cars that are not big on horsepower, than the Cayman S will be a great choice. If you are used to having a car with some decent power and torque (realitively speaking) than you might wind up missing that in the Cayman. I personally feel I would when comparing it to the 997.

    I'm going to keep an eye out to see what mods come out for the Cayman. Depending on how much hp per dollar, I might wind up converting. But not until then. My 997's still handles pretty damn good.

    Re: What would you buy?



    No, that's not what I was implying at all.

    I meant that 'having' two chicks at the same time would be impossible, unless of course you just wanted to take them out to eat dinner.

    Re: What would you buy?

    Almost forgot to vote! I wanted to wait until after I did the test drive. My vote goes to the 997 for now

    Re: What would you buy?

    Quote:
    The Groom said:
    Two chicks at the same time! Try that with any other sports car




    Didn't you watch Batman!? Two chicks in a Lambo Gallardo (?). Actually did the same in my Boxster

    Re: What would you buy?

    There is an obvious answer - the MacLaren F1. Unfortunately, slightly beyond my means

    Re: What would you buy?

    Quote:
    Zürich said:
    Quote:
    The Groom said:
    Two chicks at the same time! Try that with any other sports car




    Didn't you watch Batman!? Two chicks in a Lambo Gallardo (?). Actually did the same in my Boxster


    I think it was a Murcielago.

    I remember being crammed with 7 other 10-year olds (+ the driver) in a Fiat Panda when I was a kid! Technically, anything is possible, but I wouldn't want to do that again. Very thin models might do, but I'd be too afraid to watch them shatter and break to pieces at the very first pothole... It'd totally ruin the seats!

    Re: What would you buy?

    997s for me, the two seats allow the kids to ride to school and the store etc. the car sits too much as it is so if no back seats it might never move.

    Re: What would you buy?

    Quote:
    MHakkinen said:
    Sorry in advance for the long post but here's my two cents:

    I drove a Cayman S today. In fact I tested it twice within an hour, in an effort to compare it to my 997C2.

    I drove my 997 for a good two hours before stopping at the dealer, so the feel of transitioning from one car to the other wouldn't be lost or diluted. A beautiful black Cayman fitted with 18's and no options to weigh it down other than heated seats and Bose. I hoped they had one with sport chrono and PASM but since I'm considering PSS9's and perhaps an ECU flash I wanted to try a very basic Cayman as well anyway.

    The Cayman's exterior is very masculine indeed. The nose looks more agressive than my Carrera, and the haunches of the rear fenders looked very 'race car-ish' to me. Very Cool. But to be honest I think I still prefer the large hips of my 997's rear fenders. The 997's rear looks a bit larger than the rest of the car proportionally, whereas the Cayman's rear seems shorter than the rest of the car. It's difficult for me to explain, but I wound up preferring the bigger butt of my car. Nonetheless, the Cayman's lines flow extremely well, and that rear hatch is just trick! I think I can put two golf bags in there!

    Inside the cockpit the first thing that caught my eye were the vents; not as appealing as the 997, but no big deal; I can get use to them. Just a taste preference that popped a flag when I got in the car. The other item that came to my attention was the lack of a oil temperature gauge. I've come to live by that gauge in my 997. I don't dip into the throttle until oil temps are up no matter what the water temp gauge is telling me. That's one item that should be standard in every P-car as far as I'm concerned.

    On to the driving portion of my visit. Being a new car, the salesman asked me to keep the revs under 5200rpms, which is something he didn't need to tell me- I would've kept it under 4500rpms. But since he said 5200rps, I figured what the hec, 5200rpms it is! It took it easy for awhile (trying to make sure oil temps came up- unfortunately no way to know), but was able to take a few bends on the 2-way road we were on. I could tell right after the first corner the Cayman felt better in the turn. A few more corners, and one hairpin turn that I was able to take at about 7/10ths, accelerating hard throughout of the corner. "YESSSS!!!" is what I yelled to my salesguy. "That was guuuud!" A long stretch of straightaway followed, and this is where I had an opportunity to test torque of the car at different speeds and gears.

    Off the line I could feel the taller first gear compared to my 997. It's quite a bit of difference. My 997 has quite a bit of grunt in first gear. Funny thing is it reminds my of an old VW beetle's first gear. Engage the clutch off the line, give it firm throttle and "VRAAAP!", immediately grab for second. Nothing near that in the Cayman, it almost felt like I was taking off in second gear. No matter though, this car isn't designed for the "Stoplight Grand Prix". Just something that stood out during my comparison. Acceleration in second gear felt very close to my 997, but in third I could feel quite a bit of difference, and more so in fourth. Rolling the throttle on and off, checking response and torque, etc. the Cayman really feels underpowered in this area. Again, I didn't go past 5200rpm, but even so, I did enough on/off throttling in each gear (1-4) to get a good comparison feel.

    The last part of the test drive route took me through a high speed off camber turn, and boy let me tell you, the Cayman handled it like a champ! No hint of any surprise, no complaints, nada. Just beautiful!

    After talking numbers and contemplating whether or not I want to trade my C2 for a Cayman, I asked if we could take the Cayman S out again, so we did and repeated the same route, and I took each turn more agressively than the first outing. After returning I told them I needed to think about this and I'd get back to them with a decision.

    I hopped back into my 997 and immediately took the same route we just drove twice with the Cayman S. I can tell you without a doubt the 997C2 3.6 is still substantially more powerful everywhere in the rev range. Of course no G-Tech Pro mounted to my windshield, but my butt dyno felt a pretty big difference in every gear. And believe me, I was really hoping to get the opposite feeling. In the turns I was even more aggressive (being that it's my car, no passenger to be responsible for, etc.) and although I could feel the heaviness of the rear fighting the massive amount of mechanical grip generated by the highly evolved suspension of the 911, it wasn't as unstable (at least at that speed) as I anticipated. I will say however, if I pushed much more I might have found myself trying to recover from something so unexpected I probably wouldn't recover. That's where the Cayman really shines in my opinion. If I pushed past my limit in a corner, I feel that the car won't penalise me and I could have a chance at recovery, where with the 911 I might be toast.

    To sum up my long ass diatribe, I found the Cayman S just an incredible car. I walked away knowing that it has got to be one of the best handling cars on the market. But to be perfectly honest I'm still deciding if it's enough to lure me away from my 997. As I stated, the I think the Cayman wins in the handling dept hands down. That said, I found my 997C2 no slouch either! It's really just a great testament to Porsche designing such great products. Do we pay through the ass for this emotional therapy? Hell yes, but boooooy it's worth it!

    Another concern I have is availability of mods. I don't have a ton of money to do a 3.8 conversion, but mods like intake, full exhaust, racing seats, harness bar, and perhaps an ECU flash are readily available for the 997 (which btw brings me on par with 997S perf) but what can be done with the Cayman S? I haven't seen much out there other than full on conversions which is out of the question. What can I do to the Cayman which won't void warranty and how much power should I be able to expect from those mods? I say this is a pretty large concern for me because I feel the Cayman really does lack in the power department compared to my 997. I'd like to to feel at least on par with my current ride, even if I have to mod it a bit that's fine. I think it is in the power delivery department that would make or break my decision. I really like the torque my 997 puts out in comparison the the Cayman.

    All in all a tough decision. But happiness awaits either way. If you are coming from past cars that are not big on horsepower, than the Cayman S will be a great choice. If you are used to having a car with some decent power and torque (realitively speaking) than you might wind up missing that in the Cayman. I personally feel I would when comparing it to the 997.

    I'm going to keep an eye out to see what mods come out for the Cayman. Depending on how much hp per dollar, I might wind up converting. But not until then. My 997's still handles pretty damn good.



    Thanks, really useful, when I will have a little time I will ask for a twin test with both cars.

    Re: What would you buy?

    I wish to add that I test drove another Cayman S less than 48 hours later. Difference with this one is that it had over 1300 miles on it (the first Cayman I tested had less than 100 miles). BIG DIFFERENCE! Much closer in performance to my 997. This one also had Sport Chrono. When I turned it on I really couldn't tell the difference between the Cayman and my 997 except in the upper rev range, rowing through the gears, foot planted (makes sense).

    I came away from the second test drive much more satisfied with the Cayman. If I had to do it over again and choose, I'd go with the Cayman with Sport chrono and PASM.

    Re: What would you buy?

    MHakkinen, I assumed you drove your 997 alone, and after the Cayman S with the car dealer in the passenger seat. That may explain your perceived substantial difference in acceleration terms. I wonder if it would make a difference driving the Cayman alone, as i used to notice a not insubstantial difference in acceleration when my wife who's only 45kgs (100lbs) was in my old Boxster and when I drove alone.

    Re: What would you buy?

    Quote:
    charliepug said:
    I wonder if it would make a difference driving the Cayman alone, as i used to notice a not insubstantial difference in acceleration when my wife who's only 45kgs (100lbs) was in my old Boxster and when I drove alone.



    It's not the weight, it's the distraction from concentrated driving

    Re: What would you buy?

    Quote:
    Porsche-Jeck said:
    Quote:
    charliepug said:
    I wonder if it would make a difference driving the Cayman alone, as i used to notice a not insubstantial difference in acceleration when my wife who's only 45kgs (100lbs) was in my old Boxster and when I drove alone.



    It's not the weight, it's the distraction from concentrated driving


    Good One

    Re: What would you buy?

    Actually my wife was with me in my 997 on the way down to the dealer, and also with me in the Cayman S, so the wieght factor was equal in both situations.

    This last week all I can do is think about whether or not I should trade. Most likely I will wait a year or two, if anything just to see if there's a power improvement. Even if there's no bump in power, at least I won't be taking such a big hit. Re-badged "hard-topped boxster or not, that Cayman's handling really something.

    What I really need is a Cayman S parked in one stall of my garage, and a GT3 in the other stall!. Oh, and of course a Cayenne S for the wifey

     
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