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Re: Cayenne Turbo S-"Mini" AMS test
Its still a truck. High center of gravity. Almost 3 tons of weight with a full tank of gas, 4 occupants and luggage. Not fun. Too much asking money. Too expensive to bash up off road. Just plain ugly.
Resale like a canoe going over Victoria Falls.A pointless exercise in speed, weight, interior volume and style(or lack thereof).But has factory profit of Midas proportions.
So tell me the good news about it.
Resale like a canoe going over Victoria Falls.A pointless exercise in speed, weight, interior volume and style(or lack thereof).But has factory profit of Midas proportions.
So tell me the good news about it.
Re: Cayenne Turbo S-"Mini" AMS test
Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Its still a truck. High center of gravity. Almost 3 tons of weight with a full tank of gas, 4 occupants and luggage. Not fun. Too much asking money. Too expensive to bash up off road. Just plain ugly.
Resale like a canoe going over Victoria Falls.A pointless exercise in speed, weight, interior volume and style(or lack thereof).But has factory profit of Midas proportions.
So tell me the good news about it.
1. it is not very good looking, although it is interesting that most people I speak to, seem to like how it looks.
2. it is heavy, right. But you can do with this "truck" unbelievable things, making it even more enjoyable than any other sports limousine out there.
3. it IS fast, even if it is a truck. Yesterday, we came back from Skyline, a small amusement park in Bavaria, around 50 km from my home and in the immediate vicinity of RUF and RS-Tuning (for the Porschephiles
). At a stop light, a BMW Z1 3.0 (pretty fast little hatchback) with munich license plates and a guy (driver) and a woman sitting inside it, started off like a rocket to challenge me (standing on the right lane at the same stop light). I was with my wife and the two kids in the rear and didn't really care about it. At the next stop light, the BMW driver showed me a huge friendliy grin. My wife asked me how much power this car has and I told her that I don't know but that I would find it out shortly. So we both fully accelerated from standstill (a road entering the Autobahn) and at around 90 kph, I was already more than two car lengths ahead of him. Since I didn't want to continue to enter the Autobahn, I took the next exit which is a 90* right turn, followed by another immediate 90* left turn and around 200 meters to a stop light. I did it pretty fast, don't know, had around 80 kph or so on the speedo, my wife already showed her funny face (meaning: she doesn't like it). The kids were screaming (they love it) and of course I didn't drive at the full possible limit, the tires were only screeching a tiny bit, nothing really dangerous (from MY point of view of course). The BMW driver tried to follow but fell back pretty much. At the next stop light, he pulled next to me (left lane going left), his wife/girlfriend rolled down the window and both were laughing, showing thumbs up and the guy was shaking his head saying "Wahnsinn" several times. I looked over to my wife, she saw the reaction of the people in the BMW and she said "oh boy, how can they enjoy this?". I don't know why I said what I said to her but in a pretty arrogant feel of superiority, I told her "give people bread and games and they're happy." Of course I didn't like saying that AFTER I said it but you may understand the feeling I had after driving my Cayenne Turbo hard. Meaning: the Cayenne Turbo is a fine piece of machinery and for it's weight, it delivers an incredible performance. Of course being faster through some twists and turns than a BMW Z1 3.0 doesn't mean much, especially because I don't know how skilled the driver was (although I had the feeling he tried hard). But judging by the Cadillac Escalade I had as a rental car during our US vacation and judging by the many similar "encounters" I had in the past, I doubt that there are many cars around which are able to achieve the same performance, even handling-wise.4. it is very expensive and I doubt that I'll ever spend that much money again for a family SUV.
5. can't say much about resale value, in Germany it is still pretty good compared to the competition, even with the higher fuel prices.
6. interior room is great, not as good as in one of those monster SUVs in the US but good enough for a family of four (two adults and two kids).
Final verdict: great SUV with some sportscar genes. Definetely overpriced, definetely faster than it looks, even handling-wise and definetely fun to drive. But it can't be a replacement for a real sportscar, even a Boxster S with 280 HP is more fun driving hard, especially if you like it "sporty". And yes, I know that many people call me insane by driving such a car over here. But I was following a Lamborghini Gallardo with italian license plates down the A96 at 282 kph on the speedo and when this guy slowed down and moved to the right lane to take the next exit, my wife said that the driver was looking pretty shocked towards us. Of course I could never outrun a Gallardo but people not used to a Cayenne Turbo are always very surprised how fast it can be. And having such a huge tank behind you with the xenon lights on at over 280 kph on the speedo doesn't make you really happy. I had one in my wife's Boxster S when driving to Munich, it looked pretty scaring. I was driving 240 kph (limited by winter tires) and this black Cayenne was coming from behind me at, apparently, top speed. When he passed me, the Boxster was shaking and although I own a Cayenne myself, it was a pretty weird feeling.
I'd say that I have a love/hate relationship with my Cayenne Turbo. Not fast enough to replace a sportscar, way too expensive but really fun to drive.
Re: Cayenne Turbo S-"Mini" AMS test
nobody can argue that the cayenne is a great car. i am very happy with ms S, but it simply wasn't enough for me. so currently i am waiting to take delivery of my turbo in may. when specced out correctly it can look ok. not a beauty though. as clarksson said, they messed up the front and then couldnt be bothered with the back.
as to alternatives, my brother just took delivery of his ram srt-10. 8.3 l v10 505 hp stock. he supercharged it and it delivers around 670 hp.
took it for a spin the first time today. its huge, its red (white stripes) and its fast as hell !!
on the inside its a joke...plastic wherever you look.
4 speed auto tranny (they still exist) but really fun to drive.
wheels spin till you lift your foot off the accellerator. and that with 22" wheels and 345 tires.
however, the cayenne turbo is fast as well, you can travel long distances without feeling tired. drive the ram for more than 100 kms and you are exhausted and have a headache.
srt-10 is a great toy to play with. cayenne is a real allrounder.
as said, great car to complement a sports car.
since i have the cayenne, i do not understand why people would buy and s-class or a 7-series. with the cayenne you have it all.....oh, except good looks.
funny enough only people that drive one criticize its looks. onlookers love it.
as to alternatives, my brother just took delivery of his ram srt-10. 8.3 l v10 505 hp stock. he supercharged it and it delivers around 670 hp.
took it for a spin the first time today. its huge, its red (white stripes) and its fast as hell !!
on the inside its a joke...plastic wherever you look.
4 speed auto tranny (they still exist) but really fun to drive.
wheels spin till you lift your foot off the accellerator. and that with 22" wheels and 345 tires.
however, the cayenne turbo is fast as well, you can travel long distances without feeling tired. drive the ram for more than 100 kms and you are exhausted and have a headache.
srt-10 is a great toy to play with. cayenne is a real allrounder.
as said, great car to complement a sports car.
since i have the cayenne, i do not understand why people would buy and s-class or a 7-series. with the cayenne you have it all.....oh, except good looks.
funny enough only people that drive one criticize its looks. onlookers love it.
Re: Cayenne Turbo S-"Mini" AMS test
That's odd guys; I havent heard many people saying that the Cayenne Turbo is ugly looking. I've heard a few complaints about the S - but those huge aggressive Turbo grills are just so sexy!
Personally, I love the looks, the power, the handling - and am very excited to take delivery of a facelifted Turbo S next year!
Personally, I love the looks, the power, the handling - and am very excited to take delivery of a facelifted Turbo S next year!
Re: Cayenne Turbo S-"Mini" AMS test
RC, I am very dissapointed that there is no Sport Chrono option yet for the Cayenne Turbo or Turbo S.If any Porsche model should have that, it is the Cayenne Turbo.
Shame on them for forgetting to do that!
When you come to the US and rent a Escalade again, you may be shocked. The panel gaps and interiors of the 07's have been radically changed for the good.Its almost like its from another planet compared to the 06 models. But for rental fleet use, they may come with the 320hp displacement on demand engine instead of the newer 400hp
engine.
Shame on them for forgetting to do that!
When you come to the US and rent a Escalade again, you may be shocked. The panel gaps and interiors of the 07's have been radically changed for the good.Its almost like its from another planet compared to the 06 models. But for rental fleet use, they may come with the 320hp displacement on demand engine instead of the newer 400hp
engine.
Re: Cayenne Turbo S-"Mini" AMS test
Quote:
mish said:
That's odd guys; I havent heard many people saying that the Cayenne Turbo is ugly looking. I've heard a few complaints about the S - but those huge aggressive Turbo grills are just so sexy!
Personally, I love the looks, the power, the handling - and am very excited to take delivery of a facelifted Turbo S next year!
I would be (pleasantly )surprised if a Turbo S was available in the first year of a facelift. Do you know something that we don't?
Re: Cayenne Turbo S-"Mini" AMS test
Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Its still a truck. ....
So tell me the good news about it.
No offense, Jim, but "Dude, it's just a truck." It's not a national economic policy. Allow me to help RC point out why it's not just a "pointless exercise."
1. Thank God it is a truck, as that is just what I was looking for. Seems to me the vast majority of the folks who complain most vehemently about the Cayenne do so because it's not what they want. Oddly enough, it was almost exactly what I wanted (actually, I wanted the exact vehicle for less money and with Lexus service and reliability, but then I wanted to retire at age 40, too
)2. High COG - see #1. Since, unlike most soccer moms, I really do want/need the capabilities of a bona fide SUV, and have owned a number of them over the past 20+ years (since the days when they were just called Broncos, Blazers, and Waggoneers, rather than SUVs), I have come to accept this problem for what it is, - a necesary compromise.
3. Three tons of weight with five passengers (the extra three of which, in my case, are usually dogs, - but they wouldn't fit in any of my previous sports cars, either) and all their luggage - and, oh, by the way, a couple more tons worth of boat or trailer, if needed. Try that in your 911, bucko
4. Not fun? Perhaps my standards are lower than yours, but, except for the throttle hesitation, mine is a blast to drive. When I take it in for service, I always enjoy some of the old-school fun of the loaner Boxster, but I'm dying to get my truck back for its superior acceleration and convenience.
5. Too much bucks? Absolutely! Would have loved to find the whole package my truck offers at half the price, but couldn't. Couldn't find it a twice the price, either, since it is still unique as far as its total package. Fact is, few Porsche buyers are all that price-conscious, or even bang-for-the-buck conscious, and most are, interestingly, willing to put up with a fair number of annoyances and an inflated price not to have to compromise and settle for 80% of what they want. As just one example, if they were willing to settle for something that was damn close (better in many regards) and a lot less expensive, but not QUITE the whole enchilada, most 911 drivers would be Corvette drivers. There are those that simply want the Porsche name, and there are those that appreciate the total package for what it is - perhaps unique, but definitely overpriced.
6. No, I won't be bashing mine up on the Rubicon, - a CJ5 at a fraction of the price would be better, anyway - and I won't be taking it to the drag strip - give me a Subaru WRX with a few grand worth of mods and I'll smoke any stock 996TT, too. But, what I WILL be doing with it is taking it across pastures and up hills where the tow truck couldn't get to a 911, even if I hired a Huey to drop it there, and I'll be having a lot more fun between stoplights and on the freeways than with any of my other SUVs. And, most importantly for me, I won't have to go home and switch cars in between.
7. Just plain ugly? I could take the high road and say that beauty is in the eye of the beholder and add that I quite like the looks of the current Cayenne or I could unleash my inner 7-yr-old and just say "is NOT!!!" Either would probably be equally effective in changing your opinion, - or mine
8. Resale? If you want to know which vehicles are going to have lousy resale values, just ask me which ones I like. I've never bought a single one that held up really well (the wife's current Lexus may be an exception), probably because my wants don't match those of the general public. Doesn't much matter, as I generally keep my vehicles for a long time (I just keep too many of them at any one time).
9. Factory profit - I'm just happy to do my part to keep Porsche solvent so that they can overcharge me again when I'm in the market for a 911 Turbo.
In a nutshell, my CTT-PK, for me, is a ridiculously expensive vehicular Swiss Army knife, so I take good-humored umbrage at your calling it "pointless." Is it overpriced for what you get? Absolutely. Is it a compromise of major proportions? You bet your bippy. On the other hand, you should hear what my friends with Vipers say about folks who buy 911s
Re: Cayenne Turbo S-"Mini" AMS test
Especially over here in Germany (but it started in the US too), there is a lot of criticism regarding SUVs.
Too big (occupying too much of valuable parking space), using too much fuel, too dangerous in accidents (you don't want to get hit by a SUV if you're driving the typical european women's city car...
), etc.
A neighbor told me that my Cayenne Turbo "takes away the breathing air from his children", you get the point.
Of course it has to do with envy too, people know how much a fully equipped Cayenne Turbo costs. And it has to do with the lack of knowledge sometimes, a customer told me that he never would buy such a "dangerous" car because it is difficult to control and could roll-over any time. I didn't want to argue with him, especially since people think I'm driving a V6 with turbo look (no Turbo badge and when people ask..."V6 with turbo look"...I know there isn't such a thing but people usually believe) but it shows the lack of knowledge. Modern SUVs are very safe cars, you can drive the hell out of them, the driver just has to "adapt" to the weight and slightly higher point of gravity, especially at lower speeds (air suspension lowers car at high speeds).
I am married and we have two small children. We need a lot of interior room (changing diapers in winter time in the open isn't quite possible and in Germany, looking for a family restroom is like looking for smart law makers.), we always carry a lot of luggage with us (hint: do three large Samsonites and two large bags tell you something?!), we have two baby strollers with us (our 5-year old girl doesn't need one but when her 2-year old brother sits in one, she wants it too 
) and we are living in Bavaria with sometimes tons of snow. So WHAT car would be appropriate for us? I understand that people criticize a single person who may get a Cayenne but on the other hand...it is HIS business, why should we actually care?!
Once I've been asked by a family friend why I don't buy a BMW 5series station wagon (he owns one) with a Diesel engine. Fuel efficient, comfortable, lots of room for luggage. So we went out for a ride in the Cayenne Turbo.
When we came back, he didn't say a word. I haven't heard from him since, my wife talks to his wife from time to time but otherwise... Envy eats people from the inside, it makes them unhappy and they usually project this frustration towards the person they envy. I learned to deal with that but it isn't always easy, especially if you have kids. I always have to be careful not to talk about cars when we're visiting the parents of one of our kids' friends or when they visit us. I always have to take the Cayenne and not the Boxster or god beware a 911, when I bring/pick-up the kids at a friends' house. And I always have to teach my kids not to talk about Porsche and the cars (they love doing it...911 here, Cayenne Turbo there, etc.) because it could offend other people, surprisingly the PARENTS of other kids, not the kids.
I won't forget that very pathetic situation when the daughter of one of my wife's female friends asked me if she can take a ride in my 911. It happened in front of her dad (who happens to drive an Audi A4 stationwagon with Diesel engine). Since this happened, I never saw this guy again in our house, only his wife. And when our wifes wanted to actually do a family vacation together, her husband refused (hint hint...he doesn't like the "car" guy).
My wife also changed a lot regarding friends. Since she realized that she has to dress herself less attractive, that she has to make compromises regarding certain trips together with others, that she can't tell anybody details about vacations or any new stuff around the house, she doesn't really feel the urge to meet those people anymore.
And don't get me wrong: we're not talking about poor people, we're talking about wealthy german middle class.
And to understand how the "rules" work: the father with that Audi A4 stationwagon has a motorcycle. For more than 3 years now. Why do I mention it? Because he NEVER told us, even his wife never told my wife. Why? Because this is how it works, keeping everything on a low level, pretending that you're not wealthier or more special than the others.
For me, my Porsche cars are fun, passion, excitement, an escape from the "ordinary" and of course also a way to go from A to B. For the people who see me in my cars, my cars are just for posing, some sort of status symbol.
This is how society works, if you're not like them, you're against them. Sad.
Too big (occupying too much of valuable parking space), using too much fuel, too dangerous in accidents (you don't want to get hit by a SUV if you're driving the typical european women's city car...
), etc. A neighbor told me that my Cayenne Turbo "takes away the breathing air from his children", you get the point.
Of course it has to do with envy too, people know how much a fully equipped Cayenne Turbo costs. And it has to do with the lack of knowledge sometimes, a customer told me that he never would buy such a "dangerous" car because it is difficult to control and could roll-over any time. I didn't want to argue with him, especially since people think I'm driving a V6 with turbo look (no Turbo badge and when people ask..."V6 with turbo look"...I know there isn't such a thing but people usually believe) but it shows the lack of knowledge. Modern SUVs are very safe cars, you can drive the hell out of them, the driver just has to "adapt" to the weight and slightly higher point of gravity, especially at lower speeds (air suspension lowers car at high speeds).
I am married and we have two small children. We need a lot of interior room (changing diapers in winter time in the open isn't quite possible and in Germany, looking for a family restroom is like looking for smart law makers.
), we always carry a lot of luggage with us (hint: do three large Samsonites and two large bags tell you something?!), we have two baby strollers with us (our 5-year old girl doesn't need one but when her 2-year old brother sits in one, she wants it too ) and we are living in Bavaria with sometimes tons of snow. So WHAT car would be appropriate for us? I understand that people criticize a single person who may get a Cayenne but on the other hand...it is HIS business, why should we actually care?!Once I've been asked by a family friend why I don't buy a BMW 5series station wagon (he owns one) with a Diesel engine. Fuel efficient, comfortable, lots of room for luggage. So we went out for a ride in the Cayenne Turbo.
When we came back, he didn't say a word. I haven't heard from him since, my wife talks to his wife from time to time but otherwise...
Envy eats people from the inside, it makes them unhappy and they usually project this frustration towards the person they envy. I learned to deal with that but it isn't always easy, especially if you have kids. I always have to be careful not to talk about cars when we're visiting the parents of one of our kids' friends or when they visit us. I always have to take the Cayenne and not the Boxster or god beware a 911, when I bring/pick-up the kids at a friends' house. And I always have to teach my kids not to talk about Porsche and the cars (they love doing it...911 here, Cayenne Turbo there, etc.) because it could offend other people, surprisingly the PARENTS of other kids, not the kids.I won't forget that very pathetic situation when the daughter of one of my wife's female friends asked me if she can take a ride in my 911. It happened in front of her dad (who happens to drive an Audi A4 stationwagon with Diesel engine). Since this happened, I never saw this guy again in our house, only his wife. And when our wifes wanted to actually do a family vacation together, her husband refused (hint hint...he doesn't like the "car" guy).
My wife also changed a lot regarding friends. Since she realized that she has to dress herself less attractive, that she has to make compromises regarding certain trips together with others, that she can't tell anybody details about vacations or any new stuff around the house, she doesn't really feel the urge to meet those people anymore.
And don't get me wrong: we're not talking about poor people, we're talking about wealthy german middle class.
And to understand how the "rules" work: the father with that Audi A4 stationwagon has a motorcycle. For more than 3 years now. Why do I mention it? Because he NEVER told us, even his wife never told my wife. Why? Because this is how it works, keeping everything on a low level, pretending that you're not wealthier or more special than the others.
For me, my Porsche cars are fun, passion, excitement, an escape from the "ordinary" and of course also a way to go from A to B. For the people who see me in my cars, my cars are just for posing, some sort of status symbol.
This is how society works, if you're not like them, you're against them. Sad.
Re: Cayenne Turbo S-"Mini" AMS test
yes, its sad what society in germany has become like. in other parts of the world people give you thubs up when they see a cool car.
even here in egypt, people comment positively on my 'toys'. they could not afford them even with a lifetimes sallary, but they will come up and say wow, how fast ?, cool etc.
although people are poor, they show no signs of envy.
if some car gets scratched by keys or something over here, you can be sure its some envious tourist and not the locals.
its nice to see that people can still be happy and content even if they are financially poor.
even here in egypt, people comment positively on my 'toys'. they could not afford them even with a lifetimes sallary, but they will come up and say wow, how fast ?, cool etc.
although people are poor, they show no signs of envy.
if some car gets scratched by keys or something over here, you can be sure its some envious tourist and not the locals.
its nice to see that people can still be happy and content even if they are financially poor.
Re: Cayenne Turbo S-"Mini" AMS test
This is very good comment from you RC!
Let me tell you my personal experience from one year ago...
My wife's best friend told her that she has new boy friend and my wife ask me how about some dinner with them? I said yes and we invited them to our house for dinner.
They came together and first thing that I noticed is that guy was driving brand new Nissan 350Z(car nut as myself!).
Both of our cars(BMW M3 e46 and Porsche Boxster S 987) were in garage at the time so 350Z guy did not saw them.
My comment after introduction was something like "nice car"... What a huge mistake I made! Guys ego was allready sky high and he start giving me advices about sportscars etc. He even said to me that I need at least Audi TT because our house is a lot bigger then his apartment and he is a junior broker and I am a lawyer... What a stupid conversation-I said to myself. To end the story, after 45minutes of his great advices on sportscars I invited him to our garage... His jaw was droping to earth core level! And he was no longer in the mood to socialise with my wife and me!
Even my wife's best friend said that what I did was wrong(later, she did find out that he was simply envy jerk).
YES, RC, jelaousy and enviness are pretty bad things...
Incognito and low profile are the way to go these days, I guess...
Let me tell you my personal experience from one year ago...
My wife's best friend told her that she has new boy friend and my wife ask me how about some dinner with them? I said yes and we invited them to our house for dinner.
They came together and first thing that I noticed is that guy was driving brand new Nissan 350Z(car nut as myself!).
Both of our cars(BMW M3 e46 and Porsche Boxster S 987) were in garage at the time so 350Z guy did not saw them.
My comment after introduction was something like "nice car"... What a huge mistake I made! Guys ego was allready sky high and he start giving me advices about sportscars etc. He even said to me that I need at least Audi TT because our house is a lot bigger then his apartment and he is a junior broker and I am a lawyer... What a stupid conversation-I said to myself. To end the story, after 45minutes of his great advices on sportscars I invited him to our garage... His jaw was droping to earth core level! And he was no longer in the mood to socialise with my wife and me!
Even my wife's best friend said that what I did was wrong(later, she did find out that he was simply envy jerk).
YES, RC, jelaousy and enviness are pretty bad things...
Incognito and low profile are the way to go these days, I guess...
Re: Cayenne Turbo S-"Mini" AMS test
These are all sad stories, on the verge of class warfare, no doubt. But we also have to understand that a significant portion of the "exotic" car owners, at least here in the states, have tainted all the rest of us with an attitude and mannner that, to us, is a caricature; but, to the general public, this perception is reality. Whether it's the Hollywood movie star with a collection of Ferraris or a local dentist with a 911, their attitude of "my car is better than yours, so, obviously I'm a better/wealthier/smarter/more successful/etc. person than you" is often thinly veiled. Some of them have little idea of the machinery they own, much less how to drive it, but can't resist the urge to brag about it, as their egos seem so tied up in what they own, drive, or live in. Since Porsches are the most common of the "high-end" sports cars on the road over here, Porsche owners are often unfairly painted with the broad brush of public opinion of these jerks. Combine this with the current anti-SUV frenzy and you've got a real problem. Personally, I haven't run into the kind of problems you folks are describing in Europe. Maybe Americans are closer to Egyptians in this regard. I know that I grew up relatively poor and, when my friends and I saw a Porsche, the LAST thing on our minds was hating the guy who owned it. All we were thinking of was how we could get a ride.
Okay, I think I've drifted off-topic about as far as possible. Back (sort of) to the topic of the thread: does RC or anyone have a graph of the power curve of the Turbo S or PowerKit engine? I'm interested to see the shape of the HP and torque curves and see if they match up with my perceptions at various rpms.
Thanks!
Okay, I think I've drifted off-topic about as far as possible. Back (sort of) to the topic of the thread: does RC or anyone have a graph of the power curve of the Turbo S or PowerKit engine? I'm interested to see the shape of the HP and torque curves and see if they match up with my perceptions at various rpms.
Thanks!
Re: Cayenne Turbo S-"Mini" AMS test
All very interesting. Ive owned a number of 4X4's along with Porsches over the years. I was looking forward to the Cayenne as the ultimate 4X4 solution - get to the end of the paved road fast and then have great off road ability. It does that but its small inside for its size.
For RC, Im sure its great for a fast family wagon with two small kids and luggage. But put in four adults,two hunting dogs, gear and suddenly the Cayenne turns into a very cramped capsule.
I think Porsche could have done better with interior space considering the Cayennes weight and bulk wich is similar to a LR3. The Cayennes interior space is really more like a
subcompact wagon than a 5300lb SUV.
For RC, Im sure its great for a fast family wagon with two small kids and luggage. But put in four adults,two hunting dogs, gear and suddenly the Cayenne turns into a very cramped capsule.
I think Porsche could have done better with interior space considering the Cayennes weight and bulk wich is similar to a LR3. The Cayennes interior space is really more like a
subcompact wagon than a 5300lb SUV.
Re: Cayenne Turbo S-"Mini" AMS test
Jim, you have hit my number one complaint about the Cayenne squarely on the head. For its weight, it should be larger inside, especially the cargo area. For my purposes, the width is about right. However, since I think the vast majority of us are much more likely to want to carry more gear than approach anywhere near the aerodynamic limits of the truck, I sure would have liked them to square off the rear and lengthen it a bit - short garages and European parallel-parking spaces be damned!
Apr 17, 2006 10:17:36 PM
- Paulo_Rangel_Melo
- Veteran
-
- Loc: Azores, S.Miguel, Portugal
- Posts: 1111, Gallery
- Registered on: Nov 23, 2003
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Re: Cayenne Turbo S-"Mini" AMS test
Hey Rc, both of us had discussed this German envy stuff in the past but i still cant believe it..just sounds weird..(i'm not telling you're wrong) but it's just when i look at Germans and i see a lot of them, they come for Azores at thousands, i dont see any envy, they just look nice.
For instance, last friday i was with a friend in a 964 carrera 2 with complete exterior 993 turbo look except the rimms and we stopped next to a open air bar where there was a group full of germans drinking beer (as usuall, lol), and 2 of them came to us and 1 of them said "hey, it's one of us", i said, "excuse me?" and he said "it's one of us, it's made in Deutchland" and i said "yes, it is, awsome car" and he agreed.He looked pretty exited by the car, i doubt he noticed it was a 964 because he was telling the 993 generation was the best Porsche of all time and other stuff.
Anyway, the 2 guys seemed prety exited by the car saying how fantastic it was and the rest of the group was looking at us smiling and giving the thumbs up, etc...They looked pretty nice people and not envy at all.
I guess the general idea we in Portugal have and specially here in Azores is that Germans are not envy at all.
The only people "we" Portuguese dont dig are the Ucranians and former Soviet repblics and that's because they are people who have studies, doctors, teachers, cientists, etc.. that never worked in the building houses/roads industry, etc and come to Portugal with so litle and they do their job better and in a much humble way than we Portuguese do.We are the ones who sould be called "Envy"
P.S. - No ofense to our Ucranian and former Soviet Union Republics Rennteam members by my comment.That's why i putted the "".:)
Woshhhh
For instance, last friday i was with a friend in a 964 carrera 2 with complete exterior 993 turbo look except the rimms and we stopped next to a open air bar where there was a group full of germans drinking beer (as usuall, lol), and 2 of them came to us and 1 of them said "hey, it's one of us", i said, "excuse me?" and he said "it's one of us, it's made in Deutchland" and i said "yes, it is, awsome car" and he agreed.He looked pretty exited by the car, i doubt he noticed it was a 964 because he was telling the 993 generation was the best Porsche of all time and other stuff.
Anyway, the 2 guys seemed prety exited by the car saying how fantastic it was and the rest of the group was looking at us smiling and giving the thumbs up, etc...They looked pretty nice people and not envy at all.
I guess the general idea we in Portugal have and specially here in Azores is that Germans are not envy at all.
The only people "we" Portuguese dont dig are the Ucranians and former Soviet repblics and that's because they are people who have studies, doctors, teachers, cientists, etc.. that never worked in the building houses/roads industry, etc and come to Portugal with so litle and they do their job better and in a much humble way than we Portuguese do.We are the ones who sould be called "Envy"
P.S. - No ofense to our Ucranian and former Soviet Union Republics Rennteam members by my comment.That's why i putted the "".:)
Woshhhh
Re: Cayenne Turbo S-"Mini" AMS test
Quote:
sigs said:
These are all sad stories, on the verge of class warfare, no doubt. But we also have to understand that a significant portion of the "exotic" car owners, at least here in the states, have tainted all the rest of us with an attitude and mannner that, to us, is a caricature; but, to the general public, this perception is reality. Whether it's the Hollywood movie star with a collection of Ferraris or a local dentist with a 911, their attitude of "my car is better than yours, so, obviously I'm a better/wealthier/smarter/more successful/etc. person than you" is often thinly veiled. Some of them have little idea of the machinery they own, much less how to drive it, but can't resist the urge to brag about it, as their egos seem so tied up in what they own, drive, or live in. Since Porsches are the most common of the "high-end" sports cars on the road over here, Porsche owners are often unfairly painted with the broad brush of public opinion of these jerks. Combine this with the current anti-SUV frenzy and you've got a real problem. Personally, I haven't run into the kind of problems you folks are describing in Europe. Maybe Americans are closer to Egyptians in this regard. I know that I grew up relatively poor and, when my friends and I saw a Porsche, the LAST thing on our minds was hating the guy who owned it. All we were thinking of was how we could get a ride.
Okay, I think I've drifted off-topic about as far as possible. Back (sort of) to the topic of the thread: does RC or anyone have a graph of the power curve of the Turbo S or PowerKit engine? I'm interested to see the shape of the HP and torque curves and see if they match up with my perceptions at various rpms.
Thanks!
Not off-topic sigs; these are good observations that match with my feelings pretty well. Thanks for your input.
Re: Cayenne Turbo S-"Mini" AMS test
RC.. about cars, kids and schools.
I know a woman who is a substitute teacher at the elementary school in Ross, California. One morning teaching 3rd grade she asked the kids what they liked best about thier parents.
The first boy to answer said he likes how his dad drives him to school every morning in a Bentley. The second boy to answer said that he liked his dad better because his dad takes him to school in a Rolls Royce.
Its all relative.
I know a woman who is a substitute teacher at the elementary school in Ross, California. One morning teaching 3rd grade she asked the kids what they liked best about thier parents.
The first boy to answer said he likes how his dad drives him to school every morning in a Bentley. The second boy to answer said that he liked his dad better because his dad takes him to school in a Rolls Royce.
Its all relative.
Re: Cayenne Turbo S-"Mini" AMS test
Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Resale like a canoe going over Victoria Falls.A pointless exercise in speed, weight, interior volume and style(or lack thereof).But has factory profit of Midas proportions.
So tell me the good news about it.
2006 Best Resale Value: Category
Sedan: Honda Accord Hybrid
Luxury: Infiniti M45
Coupe: Infiniti G35 Coupe
Pickup: Toyota Tacoma PreRunner
Convertible: Chevrolet Corvette
Sport Utility: Porsche Cayenne
Wagon: Subaru Outback
Van/Minivan: Honda Odyssey
Hatchback: MINI Cooper/Toyota Prius (tie)
2006 Best Resale Value: Top 10
BMW 5-Series
Chevrolet Corvette
Honda Accord Hybrid
Infiniti G35 Coupe
Infiniti M45
Lexus GX 470
MINI Cooper
Porsche Cayenne
Toyota Prius
Volvo XC90
Re: Cayenne Turbo S-"Mini" AMS test
Quote:
RC said:
Especially over here in Germany (but it started in the US too), there is a lot of criticism regarding SUVs.
Too big (occupying too much of valuable parking space), using too much fuel, too dangerous in accidents (you don't want to get hit by a SUV if you're driving the typical european women's city car...
A neighbor told me that my Cayenne Turbo "takes away the breathing air from his children", you get the point.
Of course it has to do with envy too, people know how much a fully equipped Cayenne Turbo costs. And it has to do with the lack of knowledge sometimes, a customer told me that he never would buy such a "dangerous" car because it is difficult to control and could roll-over any time. I didn't want to argue with him, especially since people think I'm driving a V6 with turbo look (no Turbo badge and when people ask..."V6 with turbo look"...I know there isn't such a thing but people usually believe) but it shows the lack of knowledge. Modern SUVs are very safe cars, you can drive the hell out of them, the driver just has to "adapt" to the weight and slightly higher point of gravity, especially at lower speeds (air suspension lowers car at high speeds).
I am married and we have two small children. We need a lot of interior room (changing diapers in winter time in the open isn't quite possible and in Germany, looking for a family restroom is like looking for smart law makers.
Once I've been asked by a family friend why I don't buy a BMW 5series station wagon (he owns one) with a Diesel engine. Fuel efficient, comfortable, lots of room for luggage. So we went out for a ride in the Cayenne Turbo.
When we came back, he didn't say a word. I haven't heard from him since, my wife talks to his wife from time to time but otherwise...
I won't forget that very pathetic situation when the daughter of one of my wife's female friends asked me if she can take a ride in my 911. It happened in front of her dad (who happens to drive an Audi A4 stationwagon with Diesel engine). Since this happened, I never saw this guy again in our house, only his wife. And when our wifes wanted to actually do a family vacation together, her husband refused (hint hint...he doesn't like the "car" guy).
My wife also changed a lot regarding friends. Since she realized that she has to dress herself less attractive, that she has to make compromises regarding certain trips together with others, that she can't tell anybody details about vacations or any new stuff around the house, she doesn't really feel the urge to meet those people anymore.
And don't get me wrong: we're not talking about poor people, we're talking about wealthy german middle class.
And to understand how the "rules" work: the father with that Audi A4 stationwagon has a motorcycle. For more than 3 years now. Why do I mention it? Because he NEVER told us, even his wife never told my wife. Why? Because this is how it works, keeping everything on a low level, pretending that you're not wealthier or more special than the others.
For me, my Porsche cars are fun, passion, excitement, an escape from the "ordinary" and of course also a way to go from A to B. For the people who see me in my cars, my cars are just for posing, some sort of status symbol.
This is how society works, if you're not like them, you're against them. Sad.
I know of these sentiments from my parents (both from Munich) when they compared their social experiences from Germany even back in the 60's and 70's before they came to the U.S. My cousin, also from Germany, works for BASF as a high level executive and has taken a postion in Brasil with the company. While still in Germany he had to live his "life" on the D.L. (down low) because of jealousy and negativism and covetousness. I travel there and throughout Europe several times a year and spend a month or two total. I as a tourist never experience what you do as a native. I love Germany and the people...and of course their cars!!!
But it seems to me that I would surround myself with acquaintances and friends of a different lot. Who needs ignorant friends like that anyhow, and if they harbor feelings like that and act in such ways, they are not REAL friends in the first place. Kick 'em to the curb
Re: Cayenne Turbo S-"Mini" AMS test
Thanks for the nice words and your own experience stories, guys. Very interesting.
Regarding "envy" and "negativism" over here in Germany, I don't care anymore if it affects only me. But with two little kids, things have changed. Everything we (the parents) do, reflects on them. I remember that one of my customers, a former owner of a huge home appliances store, told me that his kid came once back home from school and was almost crying. When he asked his kid (first grades, don't know exactly how old he was but probably 6 or 7 years old) why he is sad, his son asked him: "is it true that we are bad people because we have a nice house and we don't share our things with the poor?" The father was shocked and called school to see what happened. A female teacher told the little kids about poorness around the world, showed pictures from Africa and told them that actually "our rich people who have nice houses, nice cars..." are to blame for these poor people. You get the point. The father talked to the head principal about this and this guy had the nerve to tell him to not take it too seriously. He talked also to the teacher who said that and this woman told him in his face that "you can't deny reality, we have to teach our children the truth..." Bla bla bla. Bottom line: my customer took his son out of this school the next day and moved him to another school. Similar incidents happened in College later on when the son's religion teacher told him directly that nobody should have so much money all alone and that everybody should part his money with the others who don't have that much. When the son argued that his father is working hard for his money and that he always comes home at 10 or 11 in the night, the teacher told him that this is another example of how the rich people neglect education and forget about the most important thing in life: love. My customer and his son were very connected, even now they work in the same business together. But people are sooooooo stupid and full of prejudice.
Sorry for my ranting but this is the only place I can actually steam out my frustration.
Regarding "envy" and "negativism" over here in Germany, I don't care anymore if it affects only me. But with two little kids, things have changed. Everything we (the parents) do, reflects on them. I remember that one of my customers, a former owner of a huge home appliances store, told me that his kid came once back home from school and was almost crying. When he asked his kid (first grades, don't know exactly how old he was but probably 6 or 7 years old) why he is sad, his son asked him: "is it true that we are bad people because we have a nice house and we don't share our things with the poor?" The father was shocked and called school to see what happened. A female teacher told the little kids about poorness around the world, showed pictures from Africa and told them that actually "our rich people who have nice houses, nice cars..." are to blame for these poor people. You get the point. The father talked to the head principal about this and this guy had the nerve to tell him to not take it too seriously. He talked also to the teacher who said that and this woman told him in his face that "you can't deny reality, we have to teach our children the truth..." Bla bla bla. Bottom line: my customer took his son out of this school the next day and moved him to another school. Similar incidents happened in College later on when the son's religion teacher told him directly that nobody should have so much money all alone and that everybody should part his money with the others who don't have that much. When the son argued that his father is working hard for his money and that he always comes home at 10 or 11 in the night, the teacher told him that this is another example of how the rich people neglect education and forget about the most important thing in life: love. My customer and his son were very connected, even now they work in the same business together. But people are sooooooo stupid and full of prejudice.
Sorry for my ranting but this is the only place I can actually steam out my frustration.
Re: Cayenne Turbo S-"Mini" AMS test
Quote:
GM Austin said:
I guess that alone could make this forum worth quite a lot to you.
Though I hadn't thought of the forum that way, I've always thought of driving fast cars (and now my Cayenne) as psychotherapy that is more cost-effective and a heckuva lot more fun than lying on a shrink's couch. The more fun the ride, the faster I relax on the commute home everyday. I guess the better the specs, the more effective the therapy. Does that bring us back close to the original topic?
Cheers to all!
Re: Cayenne Turbo S-"Mini" AMS test
Quote:
sigs said:
No apologies necessary, RC. Isn't the purpose of this forum to be entertaining and educational? This string has been both for me.
Agree completely.
No need to apologize. In fact I really must thank you RC. This thread has been very educational for me on a cultural level, which isn't something I'd expect on another car forum.
Apr 23, 2006 10:36:35 PM
- Steven Martins
- Junior
-
- Loc: Oporto, Portugal
- Posts: 145, Gallery
- Registered on: May 10, 2004
-
Reply to:
RC
Re: Cayenne Turbo S-"Mini" AMS test
Quote:
RC said:
Thanks for the nice words and your own experience stories, guys. Very interesting.
Regarding "envy" and "negativism" over here in Germany, I don't care anymore if it affects only me. But with two little kids, things have changed. Everything we (the parents) do, reflects on them. I remember that one of my customers, a former owner of a huge home appliances store, told me that his kid came once back home from school and was almost crying. When he asked his kid (first grades, don't know exactly how old he was but probably 6 or 7 years old) why he is sad, his son asked him: "is it true that we are bad people because we have a nice house and we don't share our things with the poor?" The father was shocked and called school to see what happened. A female teacher told the little kids about poorness around the world, showed pictures from Africa and told them that actually "our rich people who have nice houses, nice cars..." are to blame for these poor people. You get the point. The father talked to the head principal about this and this guy had the nerve to tell him to not take it too seriously. He talked also to the teacher who said that and this woman told him in his face that "you can't deny reality, we have to teach our children the truth..." Bla bla bla. Bottom line: my customer took his son out of this school the next day and moved him to another school. Similar incidents happened in College later on when the son's religion teacher told him directly that nobody should have so much money all alone and that everybody should part his money with the others who don't have that much. When the son argued that his father is working hard for his money and that he always comes home at 10 or 11 in the night, the teacher told him that this is another example of how the rich people neglect education and forget about the most important thing in life: love. My customer and his son were very connected, even now they work in the same business together. But people are sooooooo stupid and full of prejudice.
Sorry for my ranting but this is the only place I can actually steam out my frustration.
RC, I completely agree and I can see that same thing happening here in Portugal, at least to some extent acording with my limited experience.
I cannot be considered a rich person (not even close to it) but all of my friends have a much lower income than me (at least 3 to 4 times less) and drive cheaper cars but fortunately we get along very very well. I did lost contact with some other people I once called "friends" that started having different behaviors once my buying power increased and I bough better cars than them. Someone even started a rumor that I was selling drugs when I went from a Seat Ibiza to a used BMW 320d.
We will always have short minded people that will target their envy towards others who do better than them. I like to think that even if I would win the jackpot (or the Euro-Millions here in Europe) I would still get along with the same people with little to no changes. Of course the first car on my list would be a 997 Turbo
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