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    Porsche 991.2 Carrera S (Facelift) - Short Driving Report

    I don't want to bore you guys with a nice story about the new facelifted 991.2 Carrera S, I know you are looking for some pure facts and this is why I won't be emotional about this, especially since it is a facelift only and not an entirely new 911. Or is it? Actually, I'm not so sure I would call this car a facelift because so much has changed.

    Let's get started.

    The car key is still in that old and for my taste too bulky design but I guess Porsche wants to enable those owners, who really need or want that, to show off, so everyone who is seeing this key knows exactly that this is the key of a Porsche. The bulky design also allows Porsche to offer the option of painting the car key in the car's exterior color, which of course looks nice on the key but for those like me, who tend to carry the key with them with other keys together in their front pocket, not a (good) scratch proof idea. In the 21st century, I would expect a more innovative key solution but hey, the key itself doesn't look bad and it serves it's purpose.

    Approaching the car, one can immediately notice the new tail lights with a touch of Macan design. They look nice but I'm not so sure what was wrong with he old ones. Actually, I like the old ones better because they have a clean and simplistic look. The new tail lights however allow Porsche to offer something they couldn't offer for the old ones: Tinted glass (black tail lights), which looks nice on certain colors. For the pre-facelift model, only white tail lights were available, which isn't exactly an ideal look for many colors.

    Otherwise, most people would not really recognize the facelift, the car looks basically the same as the old one. Of course there is the new front with the newly designed blinkers and air intakes and that new front lip. While many seem to like the new front blinkers, I'm not so sure I do. They look similar to the Boxster now, I would have expected a bit more difference for the 911.

    The headlights are basically unchanged, which isn't a bad thing. The LED headlights look nice but I'm still not a fan of that four spots daylight running light in the outer ring of the LED headlight. The Bi-Xenon headlights has the four spots in the inner region of the headlight, which in my opinion looks better.

    Entering the car, one can immediately notice the new multifunction steering wheel. It looks smaller (and probably is) and the 918 style steering wheel fits the 911 very well. The integration of the functions buttons looks well executed, the driving mode changer switch (I still call it Manettino Smiley) looks also nice and well integrated, nothing looks weird about it. Actually, the driving mode changer has a firm switch feel, which is good because it cannot be operated accidentally.

    The seats are not different from the 991.1 and the interior looks basically the same as well, with one tiny difference: The PCM. When turned off, the PCM actually looks quite the same because the display size hasn't really improved much. I do not understand why Porsche didn't use the full frame size of the new PCM for the display size but other than than, the new PCM is really a step forward into the right direction, the 21st century direction. Smiley I wish Porsche would offer a possibility to retrofit the new one to the 991.1, the new PCM has so many new functions and finally supports WiFi, Apple CarPlay, SD card slots (2!), self-executed software updates  and many more things which were and are already available with other car brands. I also like the minimalistic look of the fonts and graphics, Porsche kind of caught up with the Apple vibe here. Smiley

    Starting the engine, expecting a big disappointment, actually leaves me quite (positively) surprised. The new engine sounds like a...911 engine. Good job, Porsche. Of course I had already activated the (optional) Porsche Sport Exhaust before I started the engine and while at it, I also pressed the PDCC (still a must have option in my opinion) button and switched the driving mode dial to S (not S+ yet since it was a little bit wet when I picked up the car).

    Driving off, the second surprise: This car sounds nothing like a typical turbo, it sounds like a 911. The sound is very similar (still a bit muted) to the 991.1 sport exhaust (sounds a bit more hoarse and sawing-like), not as loud as on the 991.1 GTS though but the exhaust blips are there as well, even if a bit muted. Up to 3000 rpm, the 991.2 S with sport exhaust sounds very similar to the 991.1 with sport exhaust, the sound is just a little bit muted (dampened) but the noise level is basically the same. No disappointment here, this is a very OK sound for a turbo charged engine. In the upper rev range, depending on how much throttle you use, the sound becomes a little bit less hoarse but the noise level is still the same, it just sounds a bit more dampened than your typical 991.1 sport exhaust. Still acceptable since the sound isn't really muted, just a bit dampened. The sound level (loudness level) is basically the same, which is good.

    The 991.2 Carrera S with sport exhaust doesn't sound a bit like it's more powerful turbo peer, the 991 Turbo S. The difference is very obvious and I have to be honest with you: If Porsche would have put the 991.2 Carrera S sport exhaust sound into my previously owned 991 Turbo S, I would have never given away the car. Don't put your hopes up though, the new facelifted 991.2 Turbo S has the same VTG chargers, even if they are a bit bigger. The sound hasn't changed much I'm afraid.

    Talking of sound: The new Carrera S turbo engine produces a fine turbo whine, which can be heard at lower and mid range rev figures. Add the turbo boost pressure gauge to this and it is very clear to me that Porsche wanted to give customers the feeling of driving a turbo. Some customers may love it, others not so much. 

    If you are asking me if Porsche succeeded in giving customers the illusion of driving a "small Turbo", I have to say yes. Yes, the new facelifted 991.2 Carrera S feels as powerful as my previous Turbo S and the illusion is almost perfect, just that the new Carrera S sounds much better and my previous 991.1 Turbo S also lacked the turbo whining sound of the new turbo charged Carrera S.

    Turning off the sport exhaust, the new facelifted Carrera S sounds worse than the old one without sport exhaust. I haven't driven a Carrera S without sport exhaust yet but if this is the sound of a car without sport exhaust, I wonder who would be dumb enough to order one. Without sport exhaust, the new facelift doesn't sound much like a 911. At all. So if you plan to get a new facelift for yourself, get the sport exhaust option. It is a must have option and if the sound gets too loud, you can always turn it off. Believe me, without sport exhaust, the fun driving one is gone as well. Since the new sport exhaust is very very difficult to retrofit (right now, it seems it is impossible), make not the mistake of ordering the car without one. You have been warned!

    The new Carrera S with sport exhaust also sounds good from the outside and driving through a tunnel and revving high is quite fun. The sound is very loud. In the interior however, to my surprise, in spite of the two sound symposers, the sound is more muted than in my GTS with sport exhaust. Weird. 

    If someone would ask me to define how the exhaust sound of the new Carrera S with sport exhaust sounds, I would use this (in my opinion very accurate) comparison: Take a Macan Turbo with sport exhaust, add a higher pitch sound to it (the Macan Turbo sport exhaust sounds a little bit deeper) and add a little of the hoarse sound of the classic 911. It is not as loud (my mechanic calls the GTS sound "borderline" Smiley) as GTS sound but it is as loud as a 911 Carrera S PSE sound but slightly dampened. Overall, a pretty good sound for a turbo charged car, so no worries being highly disappointed here. GTS owners however should not switch to the new Carrera S, it doesn't make any sense from a sound or performance (basically the same) point of view. Should a 991.1 Carrera S owner switch? I can definitely say yes to this. The new Carrera S offers many new features and improvements to make a switch justifiable but it is not a must. This could change however with the next 991.2 GTS models.

    The new turbo charged engine is a nice development, the revving is very quick and there is no tenacious feel in the upper rev range up to the rev limit. Nicely done Porsche, very good setup. Is there a turbo lag? Unfortunately, there is. It is mostly noticeable when you are driving in PDK auto mode, not so much in manual mode. Keep in mind that I was driving in "S" mode (later on in S+) mode all the time, so the throttle and shifting response were basically set to quickest possible settings. No, even this modern turbo charged engine from Porsche still feels like a turbo engine I'm afraid but of course not like a classic turbo where the boost kicks in suddenly. The power delivery feels very linear and smooth, nothing to complaint here. The nice engine setup actually also creates a small problem: Due to the very strong pull and acceleration due to the high torque figures slightly above idle, the new Carrera S feels more powerful than it actually is. It really feels amazingly fast and at some points, I was wondering if the car is actually much slower than my former 991.1 Turbo S. Before you start to become very excited about what I just wrote, I have to disappoint you: My son stopped with his phone the acceleration time from 40 to 150 kph and when we got back driving my 991.1 GTS, the time was basically the same. However, it felt so much quicker and sensational in the new Carrera S, unbelievable illusion.

    Porsche advertises the new turbo engines as more fuel efficient but I'm afraid I cannot confirm this. Driving this car not much different than my 991.1 GTS, the average fuel consumption is basically the same (16.7 l / 100 km). The maximum fuel consumption is even much higher for the new Carrera S, over 23 liters / 100 km. Ouch. I never got over 22 l / 100 km in my GTS, sorry to say that. I assume that the new turbo charged Carrera S will be more fuel efficient if used in normal drive mode and using the massive torque, thus not revving above 3000 rpm. Once you fire it up though and press the throttle as much as possible, expect the same or even higher fuel consumption than with the "old" Carrera S.

    Unfortunately my test car had the Power Steering Plus (I think), so my GTS (without it) feels a bit more direct and the steering is a bit heavier. Still, the new Carrera S has an amazing chassis, PDCC has been improved, side roll is even lower than on my GTS, impressive. I didn't have the possibility to drive the new Carrera S on the track but my gut feel tells me that this car certainly won't be slower than the old one, maybe even a tad quicker with the new setup.

    Speaking of setup: Porsche did an amazing job with the traction and ESP setup of the new turbo charged Carrera S. The car I tested had winter tires (Pirelli Sottozero) and the roads I drove on were still partially a little wet. At first, I drove in "S" mode because my GTS, despite being a C4, becomes on wet pavement a little bit bitchy, especially in Sport mode but even more in Sport Plus mode. Not so with the new Carrera S. The traction is amazingly good, not issues straight line, even with on a partially wet pavement and with winter tires. Applying full throttle from standstill in S+ mode, the car jumps forward without any noticeable traction issues and only if you look on the speedo, you notice the yellow traction control sign going on and off but the car remains stable in the lane (my GTS behaves differently, less forgivable) and power reduction, if any, is barely noticeable, a very good setup for a turbo charged car with so much torque.

    I tried to destabilize the car a little bit in some twists and turns, just to see how traction and ESP are acting up but it was basically impossible, in S+(!) mode, to destabilize the car or even do some little drifting (impossible). Porsche certainly played the safety card here, which is, in my opinion, the right thing to do. A Carrera S is no GT model and no Turbo/Turbo S. I did not try this on a track, so it certainly would be possible at much higher speeds and instability situations but since I was driving on public roads... You get my point though.

    So my worries about traction issues were wiped out instantly, I just wish other car manufacturers would put so much work and sensitivity into setting up their ESP and traction control systems. Porsche engineers certainly seem to have a very nice touch for that, Kudos to them. Smiley

    PDK works very well on the new Carrera S and manual shifting is even more fun than on my GTS. The paddles are shorter now but not only that, their "way" (the way of travel from pressing to shifting) is also much shorter now. It is basically like pressing a button, which allows very fast shifting. I like it a lot and if the new 918 style steering wheel with these new shorter paddles would be available for the GTS as well, I would exchange my steering wheel in a heartbeat. Very nice change, PDK owners will love it, especially those who prefer to shift manually.

    In PDK manual mode, the turbo lag is basically unnoticeable, so this would be my recommended way to shift in a PDK equipped new Carrera S. Shifting is a lot of fun in this car and since it also serves a purpose (reducing turbo lag feel), I would highly recommend it. Speaking of PDK: In auto mode, the S+ (Sport Plus on the "old" cars) setup has been improved. Yes, the lower gear is still kept longer and the rev figures go up higher but when the system "senses" that you reduce throttle for a longer period of time, it upshifts faster. I like this setup a lot and this was actually one of the things I never liked while driving with Sport Plus in my GTS, the fact that in my GTS, Sport Plus keeps the lower gear too long and you basically drive at 5000 or 6000 rpm without any chance of an (automated) upshift, even if you do not accelerate or even reduce throttle for a longer period of time (more than a couple of seconds).

    Long story short: PDK and using PDK in manual mode was never so much fun as in the new Carrera S. Highly recommended (PDK).

    The car I test-drove had the Burmester system onboard. What can I say? Burmester is a must for the 911 if you are only a little bit of an audiophile, especially if you are listening to bass heavy music like dance music or whatever. Even the Burmester isn't perfect but I highly regret not getting it for my 991.1 GTS. BOSE sucks and anyone who doesn't even get BOSE, already has my pity. The Harman Kardon system on my Mini JCW (new model) sounds as good as the Burmester in the 911 but it costs under 1k EUR. I wonder how Porsche justifies these high prices, it feels like a rip-off to me, sorry to say that.

    Now in short the GOOD and the BAD about the new Carrera S with sport exhaust.

     

    GOOD

    - Surprisingly good exhaust sound from the outside and the inside, loudness level is similar to 991.1 Carrera S sport exhaust but slightly dampened (less hoarse). Only the sound in the interior, when the windows are closed, is a little bit quieter than in the 991.1 models, in spite of the two sound symposers. Still much better noticeable in the interior than in a Macan Turbo with sport exhaust.

    - Fast revving engine without any sign of "fatigue" in the upper rev range, up to the rev limit.

    - New turbo engine provides the illusion of being much quicker/faster than the old n/a engine.

    - New Carrera S feels like a 911 Turbo, much more powerful than it actually is (performance is similar to 991.1 GTS).

    - Turbo whine noise adds to the fun, may not be everyone's favorite though.

    - Throttle response very good in S and S+ mode, turbo lag barely noticeable, especially when using PDK manual mode.

    - PDCC seems to be improved, even less side roll than in the 991.1.

    - New 918 style steering wheel very nice, lies good in your hands, multifunction features well integrated.

    - Traction is excellent, even on slippery roads and with winter tires, especially straight line. On wet pavement, traction is also excellent but ESP jumps in barely noticeable (if you wouldn't look at the traction control lamp, you wouldn't notice is is activated). 

    - Spontaneous acceleration from standstill, only very little lag (compared to my GTS) and no real traction issues.

    - Excellent ESP/traction control setup, very safe without letting the driver notice it's involvement when its active. 

    - PDK is fast, shifting is snappy and basically instantaneously and manual mode is a lot of fun to use due to the shorter paddles and shorter paddle way (feels like pressing a button or a micro-switch now).

    - New tail lights freshen up the look of the car and are available in a darker tint as well (black tail lights).

    - New sport exhaust with the dual exhaust pipes in the middle looks nice, even if a little bit unusual for a 911 (356A Coupe look?).

    - New driving mode selector (Manettino Smiley) is nice and works much better (easier) than previous buttons.

    - New PCM system finally arrived in the 21st century with many media oriented connection/communications options.

    - Boost pressure gauge adds to the illusion of driving a "little" 911 Turbo, nicely done (the Macan S for example doesn't have a boost pressure gauge, the Macan Turbo has one).

     

    BAD

    - Less aggressive sound in the interior, even with sport exhaust turned on (some people may actually like this though)

    - Without sport exhaust (turned off), very quiet and generic turbo engine sound, quite disappointing. 

    - Illusion of a much more powerful engine could lead unexperienced drivers to false performance assessments (risk of underestimating passing time, etc.)

    - High(er) fuel consumption, unless you are driving in normal driving mode and caress the throttle.

    - Burmester is the recommended sound system but way too expensive for what it offers.

    - New "little" 911 Turbo feel takes a bit away from the traditional Carrera drive feel (not really a problem but some customers may not like it).

    - Price: The new 991.2 Carrera S has a base price of almost 111k EUR in Germany. Add some must have options, like the sport exhaust, PDCC and PDK to it and you end up with a price of at least 125k EUR. Add some other options like Burmester and leather or whatever and you easily pass the 140k mark. Ouch. For this kind of money, Porsche could have at least added some power to the Carrera S, 420 hp are (in view of the price tag) a bit on the lower side.

     

    VERDICT

    Porsche did it. Yes! In my opinion, they successfully moved the 911 Carrera from the n/a engine era to the turbo engine era. I was very worried that they wouldn't succeed but I am happy to announce that I was wrong. Especially the sport exhaust setup has been nicely done, I bet that Porsche put a lot of work and resources into the development of this setup. They have done an amazing job here and I have to congratulate them. No, I wouldn't switch my GTS for a 991.2 Carrera S, the GTS still sounds (much) better but I also think that we should compare the new Carrera S to the old Carrera S models and not the GTS. That said, 991.1 Carrera S owners should or could think about a switch, even if the sound is a bit better (less dampened) on the 991.1 Carrera S with PSE but GTS owners can relax and sit this one out. Only the new PCM would be worth a switch, Porsche finally brought it into the 21st century but I think that GTS owners bought their cars for different reasons than using the PCM.

    The fact that the new 991.2 Carrera S feels like a little brother of the 911 Turbo may be a blessing or a curse for this car. Some owners will love it, others may hate it but overall, the very nice power feel of the engine will make a lot of owners happy. I'm not so sure that Porsche did a good job by adding that turbo whining sound to the car since this is a 911 Carrera and not the 911 Turbo but time will tell. I wish they would added this sound and the exhaust sound to the real 911 Turbo, so I wouldn't be forced to say good-bye to it. The lack of sound and emotions made me give away my Turbo S but I still miss the power sometimes.

    To come to an end and to keep you from getting bored: The new 911 Carrera S is a true 911, no question. It has become a different 911 though, a car closer to the 911 Turbo tradition than to the 911 Carrera tradition. Drive it and you will understand. Most customers will love this change, also because many of them probably dreamt of a 911 Turbo once but could never afford one. A small number of customers will be disappointed but I think Porsche can live with that. On the whole, Porsche has successfully switched the 911 Carrera to a turbo charged engine and this assures the survival of the 911 Carrera. It will also calm down 911 Carrera fans who thought that this is the end of the Carrera. 

    Unfortunately, Porsche has also raised the price tag and the Carrera S I drove is almost 130k EUR. This is a lot of money for a car which basically has the performance and feature set of a BMW M4. The M4 has a base price of 76k EUR in Germany, the 991.2 Carrera S has a base price of 111k EUR, this is 35k more for the Porsche. Well, at least the 991.2 Carrera S sounds (much) better than the M4 and it also has the better track performance but 35k more for a car in a similar performance class? Porsche is pretty confident here.

     

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    Maximum(?) boost pressure of 1.1 bar...

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    Looks quite impressive (PSE)...not easy to retrofit (if possible, I doubt it)

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    SD card slots (left, right...middle is for SIM card)

    tankanzeige.jpgWhen you run out of gas, the PCM suggests to find (navigation system) the next fuel station to fill your car up...nice.

     

     

     


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: Porsche 991.2 Carrera S (Facelift) - Short Driving Report

    Best part of Rennteam!  RC is the best. Can't wait. Like Christmas morning. Better than Star Wars Smiley


    Re: Porsche 991.2 Carrera S (Facelift) - Short Driving Report

    RC is like Chris Harris without videowink    Looking very much forward to your review 


    Re: Porsche 991.2 Carrera S (Facelift) - Short Driving Report

    RC , I cant wait for your report ...but I hope you will be VERY forthright with this long time group of well informed Rennteam  911 enthusiasts about how the " baby Turbo "  SOUNDS outside/ inside relative to this video of a stock 991.1 C2S with  PSE turned on  ( esp around the 2:10 - 4:30 minute marks on the video  ) since journalists, hoping to keep future invites , have danced around it to some degree !

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rCF2es3jjt0

     


    Re: Porsche 991.2 Carrera S (Facelift) - Short Driving Report

    Unless driving in a tunnel, isn't this external sound difficult for the driver to enjoy (unless Cab, perhaps)?


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    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: Porsche 991.2 Carrera S (Facelift) - Short Driving Report

    I'm not in love with the raspy sound. Riccola sponsored pse. 

    A flat plane crank V8 sounds good and so do Ferrari or any V12. Even the old air cooled Porsches were at best an aquired taste and owners would frequently hear expensive noises which were not welcome. This car sounds like extra backfire was added for some Un-fathomable reason.  I know they have been doing that for a couple years now but it just makes noise. Liking my silent Turbo more and more as I sneak through traffic at light speed. 

    Can wait for seat of the pants report from RC. Not just noise. 


    Re: Porsche 991.2 Carrera S (Facelift) - Short Driving Report

    +1 I can't stand the farting 'look at me' sounds of newer sportscars. Love my silent 997.2.

    looking forward to the report kiss


    Re: Porsche 991.2 Carrera S (Facelift) - Short Driving Report

    More curious to know if the turbochargers make the engine rev quicker than the NA 991.1, if steering feedback is better and if the front aerodynamic enhancements are actually noticeable at speed.  

    As for the exhaust over run crackle and pop, it's just a x box like addition that's a poor imitation of Webers and the porsche ancient ralley exhaust system ....and some of the piped in induction noise and the exhaust sounds a bit too much like a 914 2.0 with a rusted out Ansa exhaust system. What we don't seem to get yet is that deeper older pre cat era flat 6 911 wail after 5k RPM s. And maybe we never will again. Check out the sound from Ford's New gr350 mustang, it has to be the best sounding New car engine unless you get a lamborghini.


    Re: Porsche 991.2 Carrera S (Facelift) - Short Driving Report

    One's a bit surprised that there are no posting on the new 718 twins, especially as how it relates to engine displacement and how it differs from the 991.2 engine strategy.  As everyone is now familiar, the 991.2 engine for the base and S variants are of the same capacity, 3 litres, with the difference in horsepower set according to larger turbochargers, higher boost pressure and ECU programming changes for the S variant.  The 718 debuts two four cylinder engine capacities, 2.0 litres for the base motor and 2.5 litres for the S variant.  The S also receives a VTG turbo similar to that found on the "TURBO" 991.x models.  Evidently, cooling issues for the 718 models forced Porsche to offer two differ displacements for the base and S variants.  


    Re: Porsche 991.2 Carrera S (Facelift) - Short Driving Report

    Grant:

    Unless driving in a tunnel, isn't this external sound difficult for the driver to enjoy (unless Cab, perhaps)?

    not at all....on my 991 C4S coupe with PSE , those outside sounds as captured by his buddy in the Miata sound exactly like that from my driver's seat ...with the added benefit of feeling the pressure / vibration of the sound waves in the butt and against the chest ....and the real deal being way louder than any online video heard via headphone or tablet  speaker can ever intimate .....the benefit , for me,  of my having a sunroof which Caymans and 911 GTx models don't have !

    this video is the only one on the internet that has ever , imo , captured the true sound of the 991/ PSE combo ....all the others sound like they were recorded with a glove covering the mic or from 500 ft away !

    imagine how glorious the GT4, GT3 and GT3RS would sound with a hole in the roof when just street driving around like in this video ( ignore the weight, blah blah blah ...just a thought experiment ! ) 

    Smiley


    Re: Porsche 991.2 Carrera S (Facelift) - Short Driving Report

    JimFlat6:

    More curious to know if the turbochargers make the engine rev quicker than the NA 991.1, if steering feedback is better and if the front aerodynamic enhancements are actually noticeable at speed.  

    As for the exhaust over run crackle and pop, it's just a x box like addition that's a poor imitation of Webers and the porsche ancient ralley exhaust system ....and some of the piped in induction noise and the exhaust sounds a bit too much like a 914 2.0 with a rusted out Ansa exhaust system. What we don't seem to get yet is that deeper older pre cat era flat 6 911 wail after 5k RPM s. And maybe we never will again. Check out the sound from Ford's New gr350 mustang, it has to be the best sounding New car engine unless you get a lamborghini.

    Spot on. Sadly getting a new mustang gt350 is impossible. It does sound amazing and I'm not really that into sound. I did own a 2.0 914 with ansa type exhaust as my first Porsche when I was 16 and you made me smile. Hardcore vehicle for a kid learning to go fast. 


    Re: Porsche 991.2 Carrera S (Facelift) - Short Driving Report

    MKW:

    imagine how glorious the GT4, GT3 and GT3RS would sound with a hole in the roof when just street driving around like in this video ( ignore the weight, blah blah blah ...just a thought experiment ! ) 

    For the GT4 example, just get a Boxster Spyder - indentical drivetrain...


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    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: Porsche 991.2 Carrera S (Facelift) - Short Driving Report

    Grant:
    MKW:

    imagine how glorious the GT4, GT3 and GT3RS would sound with a hole in the roof when just street driving around like in this video ( ignore the weight, blah blah blah ...just a thought experiment ! ) 

    For the GT4 example, just get a Boxster Spyder - indentical drivetrain...

    you get my originsl point ...ni need to veer off ....your comment implying only cabs afford their drivers a great exhaust sound is not correct  ...owners of coupes with sunroofs get the same aural  benefit . Opening windows only doesnt do much ....witness the significant difference in a cab with its top open vs closed with glass dropped  ....that was my experience with my Boxster S ...sounded like two different cars ! 


    Re: Porsche 991.2 Carrera S (Facelift) - Short Driving Report

    m4ever:

    RC is like Chris Harris without videowink    Looking very much forward to your review 

    If I had the resources (money, time...)... Smiley Smiley Me and the mods are running this site in our own free time, we all have real life jobs and families, kids...not always easy.

    Chris Harris makes his money with journalism/reports/videos and as far as I know, he is neither married nor does he have kids, so... Smiley However, what I really appreciate is that Chris Harris loves cars and he is honest. Two qualities not often found in car journalists. Many can drive but they couldn't care less about the cars. They care however very often what car manufacturers "expect" from them, so they are again invited for the next test drive.

    I know you won't believe it but I never officially received any test cars from Porsche and I would never lie to please them. The only time when I hold back (I never lie) information about Porsche and Porsche cars is when I would put my source(s) in danger or if I had been specifically asked to refrain from posting that information (for a good reason only).

    I heard that Chris Harris is banned from reviewing Lamborghini cars, which is ridiculous. Lamborghini doesn't do themselves any favor by doing such a thing, it only hurts them, no matter what Chris Harris said about them (he wasn't really wrong but could have said it a little bit less insulting).


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Porsche 991.2 Carrera S (Facelift) - Short Driving Report

    Still waiting for the review - saw you posted RC and then it turned into a tease.  Don't keep us waiting too long.  It's like afternoon there!


    Re: Porsche 991.2 Carrera S (Facelift) - Short Driving Report

    Leawood911:

    Still waiting for the review - saw you posted RC and then it turned into a tease.  Don't keep us waiting too long.  It's like afternoon there!

    I think you should reload your page... Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Porsche 991.2 Carrera S (Facelift) - Short Driving Report

    RC, Chris Harris is married with children.  He mentions dropping his kids off to school frequently.  

    Question: why do you say the car only gives the illusion of more power?  I sort of know what you mean in the sense that these turbo engines feel like they have much more power than they do because of delivering so much torque down low. Then when you rev it out, it doesn't build like a naturally aspirated engine.  

    But still, this face lift has more power under the "curve" so while it doesn't have 500hp, the extra performance is far from an illusion, especially around town. 


    Re: Porsche 991.2 Carrera S (Facelift) - Short Driving Report

    vantagesc:

    RC, Chris Harris is married with children.  He mentions dropping his kids off to school frequently.  

    Oops...my bad. Smiley Still, it is his main job (car journalism) and he also has an excellent camera/video expert with him.

    I have a business to run (morning to evening) and sometimes not only mine but my wife's as well (IT, bookkeeping, etc.). Then I need to take care of the kids (doing homework with them...listening to their stories since my wife doesn't have the  patience...playing video games with my son...and so on) in the evening and on weekends, I barely have time to post on Rennteam, let alone driving my car(s). Smiley

    I admire Chris Harris a lot for his work, I even think he got a gig with US NBC right now.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Porsche 991.2 Carrera S (Facelift) - Short Driving Report

    Excellent, as usual! Many thanks


    --

    1992 964 Carrera 2 - 2014 Mercedes A45 AMG - 2013 Mini Cooper S


    Re: Porsche 991.2 Carrera S (Facelift) - Short Driving Report

    Mikla:

    Excellent, as usual! Many thanks

    Thank you. Smiley  Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Porsche 991.2 Carrera S (Facelift) - Short Driving Report

    MKW:
    you get my originsl point ...ni need to veer off ....your comment implying only cabs afford their drivers a great exhaust sound is not correct  ...owners of coupes with sunroofs get the same aural  benefit . Opening windows only doesnt do much ....witness the significant difference in a cab with its top open vs closed with glass dropped  ....that was my experience with my Boxster S ...sounded like two different cars ! 

    Ok, fair enough Smiley


    --

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: Porsche 991.2 Carrera S (Facelift) - Short Driving Report

    RC:
    Mikla:

    Excellent, as usual! Many thanks

    Thank you. Smiley  Smiley Smiley

    +1


    Re: Porsche 991.2 Carrera S (Facelift) - Short Driving Report

    Great review as usual RC.  One question: you mention twice that apparent throttle lag (i.e. turbo lag) is most apparent in auto mode and much less in manual mode - not doubting you but I struggle to understand why that would be the case.   Assuming you were say, in 4th gear at 3000 rpm, and you accelerate staying in 4th (ie. PDK does not trigger a downshift), I cannot see why there would be any difference in feel between PDK in auto or manual mode, since PDK is a solid clutched connection between engine and axles in either case.  

    Just as an aside on "turbo lag", auto journalists IMO do a very poor job in describing this, almost always based on feel, but different journalists conclude that (for example) the McLaren 650S has significant lag, or almost no lag, or some lag.... all over the place.  On the other hand they praise, say, the Audi R8, for its instant throttle response. Some truth to all this, but throttle response in any car depends on what rpm and what gear you measure it in - without knowing this, it is impossible to relate to a reviewer's observations.  My 911S is usually described as a nice responsive reasonably torquey engine; however if I try to accelerate in 4th gear, at 2500 rpm, there will be some "lag" or slow response as the engine is not far enough into the torque curve.  Do the same at 3800 rpm, and a huge difference in response.  To me, turbo engines are no different - if you are at high enough revs to be well into the torque curve (thus boost curve), there is no more lag than a NA engine.  If you are not, yes, you will suffer because the turbo engine has normally lost some displacement  so without boost it is even weaker.  But the point is, most NA engines are almost equally laggy at low engine speeds.... (Digression on lag over....indecision )


    --

    2011 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S


    Re: Porsche 991.2 Carrera S (Facelift) - Short Driving Report

    Great write up RC. Thank you for taking the time. So as expected Porsche and Ferrari have pulled off the transition from n/a to turbo by using very good r/d on the engine and by making the rest of the car better also to help soften the potential "turbo" backlash. Porsche seem to have delivered a product worth upgrading to if your car is over 3 year old. IT is not a surprise as McLaren managed to create some great turbo products, with some time and effort so have the other manufacturers.

    The price aspect has been beaten to death before. 911 are not the great value they were in the past, GTx aside. Good for Porsche, terrible for first hand owners since basically in the USA the price of a regular 4 year old 911 is exactly the same today and 10 years ago ($60 to 75k depending on the model). I don't consider the 911 and M3/4 to be in the same category and Porsche is proving that they can sell many cars at their new price points, so they know what they are doing. The new PCM is a huge selling point and they will not offer a retrofit for several years if at all, $$$ speaks.


    Re: Porsche 991.2 Carrera S (Facelift) - Short Driving Report

    4trac:

     But the point is, most NA engines are almost equally laggy at low engine speeds....

    I think this is a problem with the definition of lag.  No decent NA motor has "Lag" at low revs in gear.  It may have lousy acceleration due to being well below the torque peak, but whatever torque it does have there is immediately accessible when pressing the throttle.

    A turbo motor may have more torque at the same low rpm, but there is a very noticeable gap in time between pressing the pedal and receiving the acceleration as the engine must build boost in order to respond (something an NA motor does not need to do before delivering its smaller torque).


    --

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: Porsche 991.2 Carrera S (Facelift) - Short Driving Report

    Sometimes the lag is also in the electronic setup (old Cayenne anyone?)


    Re: Porsche 991.2 Carrera S (Facelift) - Short Driving Report

    SciFrog:

    Sometimes the lag is also in the electronic setup (old Cayenne anyone?)

    I think that is partly or entirely contained in the PDK electronics (something that I'm not including in my description).


    --

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: Porsche 991.2 Carrera S (Facelift) - Short Driving Report

    Great review.
    I am happy to read that the new Carrera has no traction problems. I was afraid, that with the new engine and the much improved torque, AWD would be neccesary. I dont like the weight and the additional money AWD cost. That are good news.

    Can you say something about ride quality?
    Porsche claimed improvements in PASM setup with a bigger spread between normal and sport mode.
    Did you notice something in this area?


    Re: Porsche 991.2 Carrera S (Facelift) - Short Driving Report

    great writeup and insight. thank you.


    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

    Re: Porsche 991.2 Carrera S (Facelift) - Short Driving Report

    Awesome write-up Christian! Smiley and very relived that Porsche did a good job with the turbo engine, and tried to give it as much as an atmospheric character as possible.

     

    4trac:

    Great review as usual RC.  One question: you mention twice that apparent throttle lag (i.e. turbo lag) is most apparent in auto mode and much less in manual mode - not doubting you but I struggle to understand why that would be the case.   Assuming you were say, in 4th gear at 3000 rpm, and you accelerate staying in 4th (ie. PDK does not trigger a downshift), I cannot see why there would be any difference in feel between PDK in auto or manual mode, sin

    I think that what he is reffering to is that when in manual mode you tend to keep the rev's higher than in auto mode, and hence the lag is less apparent because of it, and not that there is a difference between the lag from  the same 3000rpm in manuial vs auto. 


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


     
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