Crown

Doesn't that gif just show how Rossi widens his line / Marquez gets in trouble, lowers head to correct steering / gets a deliberate tap from the knee. 

I don't see anything new in this gif? 

spudgun:

Doesn't that gif just show how Rossi widens his line / Marquez gets in trouble, lowers head to correct steering / gets a deliberate tap from the knee. 

I don't see anything new in this gif? 

Huh? it shows Rossi checking where his competitors are, then Marquez decides to get closer and then head butt Rossi's knee, and as retaliation, Rossi shoves Marquez back, then Marquez falls. Marquez has all the room in the world on the outside yet he drives into Rossi. Rossi is in front, after he shoulder checks, he turns his head back forward, Marquez would have disappeared from his field of view, but there is no way Marquez cannot see where Rossi is. 

Guys really? can't you see its the camera angle of the gif which is the wrong angle and close up? Its like saying that a guy getting punched in the face, hit the other guys fist with his head instead because you are looking at it from a POV of the head closing the gap towards the fist ​

If you look at the cenital view angle from above were you can follow both riders lines AND were they are in the curve you can clearly see that its Rossi that slows and opens his line going into the apex after which they are both supposed to cut the corner. Marquez does so as he is running out of track (after trying to actually AVOID contact with Rossi twice as you can see him lifting his bike twice at the apex) but Rossi which is supposed to turn into the corner still doesn't hence they meet (looking like its Marquez bumping into Rossi if you look from a perpendicular angle the outside of the curve - face to fist - but anybody who rides bikes knows that if you are the outside rider and you hump the inside rider you have 99% posibillity you are going wide or down while the inside rider actuallly benefits from the bump as it he is kept into the corner, its a tactic called "leaning"), and EXACTLY at that point, calculated by Rossi as you can see how he looks over and BACK to Marquez THREE times (when he should be looking to the exit of  the corner) adapting his speed and line to meet him at the apex, proceeds to give Marquez's bike a kick while Marquez is at maximum tilt angle causing him to loose grip and wipe, and then and only then, Rossi opens the throttle and proceeds to exit the corner on his way to rack up the points from a third place on the race after what he did.

On board camera says it all:
https://amp.twimg.com/amplify-web-player/prod/source.html?video_url=https%3A%2F%2Fvideo.twimg.com%2Fext_tw_video%2F6581825434145...

This is very clear to anyone with racing experience and of course the organisation and all the riders,teams, etc so there is not going to be any revoking of the penalty, on the contrary, in fact there is quite an uproar that the organisation didn't show Rossi a black flag and the organisation is recieving a lot of criticism that they screwed up. If anything is changed regarding the penalty it will  be to make it more severy, but I douubt this is going to happen since the organisation doesn't want to admit anything by doing so.

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⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

@CoS

MM was playing dirty trick with VR the second time in a row, not only in PI but also in Sepang!

For sure Rossis move wasn't gentlemen like, but MM was asking for this

VR was just paying him back and unfortunatelly MM crashed, if he didn't nobody would have talked about that incident badly...

Do you remember when MM was crashing/ driving into DP and took his sensor from the rear axel of which caused an accident and also an injury to Dani?

People "liked" that action saying that MM is really "a killer" and if Dani wouldn't be his teammate he would have got a penalty 100% for sure!!

Why is MM messing with Valentino?

Why is he interfearing massively in the championship fight between JL and VR?

Have you seen the PI race last week? Why was he holding up VR and AI just to drive the fastet lap in the LAST lap (!! and to win over JL?

I don't think he's driving for JL but he's definetelly against VR :-(

Still I do hope that VR will win the championship but I feel that even if JL would be 3rd what would secure the chanpionship to VR becom 6th, but MM would then back off and let JL pass...

FORZA VALE!!!!

Sorry, like I said before, I was cheering for Vale for the championship, but there are no excuses for what he did, not gonna be blinded by favoristisms, no matter what Marquez did there is no excuse for something like this, what Rossi did stained the sport and Rossi's image for good (he was never the cleanest rider but something like this was unheard off in MotoGP). For many like me who have been following motorcycle racing for over 30 years (and Valentino since he started in 125cc), this was a huge dissappointment and a sad day.

If it would of been Marquez that did that he would of been shown a black flag inmediately, but being Rossi he got away easy. If he has any decency left he should not even race on the last race out of shame, but seeing as he does not admit any fault even when it was perfectly caught on camera and still lies and blames everybody else, I doubt it.

I know some fans are going to make excuses (as in the other rider must of deserved it) and turn a blind eye but even italians overwhelamingly agree that there is no excuse:
  http://www.gazzetta.it/sondaggi//pages/gazzetta/duello_rossimarquez_chi_ha_le_colpe_maggiori_d_13583.shtml

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⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

This is not beeing a VR-fanboy but rather about "justice"!

MM has been a very talented but still extreme agressive rider in the past all over different classes he ws competing.

It was the same wit SIC, I generally liked very much his riding style but at the end it was too much (UNFORTUNATELLY, RIP Super SIC)

VR didn't kick him, he just pushed his knee against MM's head after psycho-Marc was leaning his head against Vale.

How ever time will tell how this gonna turn out...

MM was just out there to destroy VRs race, FOR WHAT did he do so (for the second time) ?

If you have followed Rossi for 20 years since he came into motorcycle racing in 125cc class (I folowed every race in his progression 125cc, 250cc, 500cc, etc) you would realise that Rossi was the same way as Marquez, same aggressive style and had many more incidents with other riders over the years...and thats OK to a certain extent, but this time its different, never seen such a deliberate act of trying to throw another rider off mind corner from the inside, there is certain unspoken code about that in motorcycle riders, unexcusable.Rossi lost many old old fans this day.

Furthermore MM can due as he pleases as long as he keeps it clean, those laps were fantastic for the fans. He is not a rider who is going to mover over and let Rossi or Lorenzo pass, that is why he fought Lorenzo so hard in ther previous race and took first position and its points from Lorenzo on the race. Rossi can't expect to have MM move over for him just because he has been MM hero since a little kid, and Rossi's words previously accusing MM after the previous GP did little to help, MM would definately not move over after that.

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Unfortunatelly you're missing one very important point... at this stage of the championship MM had nothing to lose (as he was crashing many times this year due to his "magic riding style" *gg*), why is he interfearing in the close battle between the best riders 2015?!?

This is childish!!

AI was also racing VR in PI, that's not the problem as he was riding at his best whilst MM was just playing around and holding up VR both in PI and in SIC although Vale has been way faster in Malaysia also MM wasn't driving at the max during the PI race...

How has it been possible for him to set the best lap time in the LAST LAP??? :-(

However time will tell what will happen @Valencia, although I'm no JL fan he'd deserve it also (not only VR)!

Hopefully DP will have next season (his last?) his final shot at the title, he's deserving it for long time...

BTW: I'm following VR since he joined 250ccm but 500ccm-championship since the good old battles of Rainey, Schwantz, Mamola and Quick Mick Doohan, I hope that entitles me to have a different opinion than you?! ;-)

For sure Lord_Driftalot, everyone can have their own equally valid and respected opinion, I didn't mean to say otherwise , just that if you have seen Rossi throughout his career, you could not blame Marquez for being aggressive since Rossi has alwasys been same.

BTW, motorcycle racing has not been the same since the 2-stroke 500cc monsters and talents of the caliber of Schwantz, Doohan, Rainey, etc  batteling it out. Those were the days!

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⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Head butting while he is in the outside lane? Common, wich rider would do that?  that's just a ticket to the gravel trap while the guy on the inside line (Rossi) would even benefit from the contact!

spudgun:

Head butting while he is in the outside lane? Common, wich rider would do that?  that's just a ticket to the gravel trap while the guy on the inside line (Rossi) would even benefit from the contact!

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Please have a look at that video, here you can see all overtaking moves from different angels and it's totally obvious & visible that MM was not only racing, but he was racing with out any regrets (as he had nothing to lose)!!

-> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OrYHEojBnE

After watching all these manoeuvers it was more than logic that VR had to make a point, and crashing out MM was for sure not his intention...

All I see is amazing racing back and forth (wish we could see 10% of that in F1 instead of the charade it is today), it's what every race should be like, there were no foul moves there, just their normal aggressiveness characteristic of both riders... is a rider supposed to step aside like if he was a lapped rider? are we going to ban this back and forth overtaking in MotoGP when it suits a certain rider's championship aspirations? don't think so, if you want to win a championship you have to do it dealing with everything up until the last race.

What Marquez did is EXACTLY what Rossi did to Lorenzo in Motegi 2010, literally, with several contact between the bikes included on the last last with Rossi having no chance at the titlle and Lorenzo fighting for the title as leader. Look at the video, Roosi was even more aggressive than Marquez even bumping Lorenzo from the inside in the corner, or causing Lorenzo to have to lift up mid cornber to avoid collision. What now about Marquez? nuf said...

http://www.rtve.es/alacarta/videos/programa/03102010-piquelorenzorossi-rtvedermaster/892603/

Knocking off Marquez out of the race was absolutely Rossi's intention, and the videos are proof, he did not want to deal with Marquez and thought he deserves a red carpet to the finish line and since he could not leave him behind he got rid of him in the lowest most discraceful way posible for the sport.

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⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

@CoS

obviously you compare something totally different:

* 2015 VR & JL are batteling in the final stages for the championship, MM is interferring FOR NOTHING

* 2010 JL was already the dominant racer in that season (also due to VRs and sadly DPs injuries), VR wasinterferring for nothing, as JL was already the new champ

->  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Grand_Prix_motorcycle_racing_season

http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/race/motogp-race/the-sepang-incident/

Lord_Driftalot:

@CoS

obviously you compare something totally different:

* 2015 VR & JL are batteling in the final stages for the championship, MM is interferring FOR NOTHING

* 2010 JL was already the dominant racer in that season (also due to VRs and sadly DPs injuries), VR wasinterferring for nothing, as JL was already the new champ

->  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Grand_Prix_motorcycle_racing_season

Nope. Lorenzo was not yet the champ in Motegi and needed one more race to secure the title just like Rossi this weekend.

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Probably the most accurate angle to show 'what actually happened' - from the helicopter camera...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Tv0voGsDl0

An interesting 'take' on the incident from an unbiased amateur rider....

"I race bikes as a hobby, I'm no MotoGP champion, but know enough about racing a bike on track against other riders to know what I saw. I saw a young, extremely talented but "dirty" rider called Marc Marquez, who despite having a clearly superior bike, focused his entire race effort on SABOTAGING the regular development of a race and the entire world championship in doing so. Valentino Rossi's declarations on the Thursday prior to the race have been strongly supported by factual evidence during the races of Philip Island, and even more blatantly Sepang. Times don't lie, and it's as simple as checking the official timing charts of each rider for each lap of both the Australian and the Malaysian GPs and compare them with the recordings of the races, lap by lap. As for the details of the incident at turn 14 which is in discussion: The incriminated action should be viewed in light of the aforementioned ulterior motives displayed by Marc Marquez and his repeated attempts to provoke an incident in the previous laps of the race. Provocation that had already caused Rossi to hand signal to Marquez that he was exceeding the limits. The incident at turn 14 was, as clearly demonstrated by several video captures, only but the latest attempt by Marc Marquez to INTENTIONALLY collide or even worse, cause a crash with Valentino Rossi. It is clear from the footage, that at the instant Marquez hits Rossi with his forearm, shoulder and helmet, Rossi is already looking into the turn to drive out. If you have ever ridden a sport bike on a track you will know that in those circumstances in which several bikes find themselves fighting for the same piece of tarmac it is a normal safety reflex from riders the widen their elbows or knees a little to avoid bikes and especially handlebars and brake levers colliding into each other. You will also know that while leaning to the right and weighting your inside foot peg, what keeps you on the bike is your outside knee on the tank. Hardly a good position to kick any moving motorbike with enough strength to cause it even to wobble, let alone fall down. And even assuming you were able to pull it off, your own bike would be so upset by the shift in forces that it would act very nervously and shaky as well....while Rossi's bike glides smoothly out of the turn without as much as a head-shake. In that instant Rossi acted instinctively, not trying to cause Marquez's fall, but rather in an attempt to protect his own incolumity. Marquez had nothing to lose in that moment, while Rossi knew that going to the ground in that instant would have meant the end of the championship chase. Had Rossi allowed Marquez to crash him out as he was clearly attempting to, Rossi would have lost all chances to the title no matter how severe the punishment inflicted to Marquez would have been. Rossi only did what he had to do to survive a kamikaze attack. Even more unjustly, both Marquez and Lorenzo used the LIE of a presumed Rossi kick to demand and incite the harshest possible penalty be inflicted on Rossi. To be noted that this happened in the immediate aftermath of the race without time for either riders to even remove their leathers...and yet the two Spaniards were already in such agreement...giving even more credibility to Rossi's words. Should the sanction inflicted to Valentino Rossi not be revoked, this will seal the DEATH of MOTOGP as the individual sport it was intended to be, where every competitor, no matter his ranking makes an implicit promise of competing HONESTLY to the best of his own ability. It's called sportsmanship. The day we accept that a racer, for whatever personal/political/economical reason purposefully slows down and alters the values and results of any race, is the day racing becomes pointless. The day we allow a private organization to permit that athletes of its own country make allegiances that go beyond the duties of team-mates and bend the values of the competition to some alternative interest, is the day we accept that the real spirit of racing was killed."

"Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."

John H:

Probably the most accurate angle to show 'what actually happened' - from the helicopter camera...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Tv0voGsDl0

An interesting 'take' on the incident from an unbiased amateur rider....

"I race bikes as a hobby, I'm no MotoGP champion, but know enough about racing a bike on track against other riders to know what I saw. I saw a young, extremely talented but "dirty" rider called Marc Marquez, who despite having a clearly superior bike, focused his entire race effort on SABOTAGING the regular development of a race and the entire world championship in doing so. Valentino Rossi's declarations on the Thursday prior to the race have been strongly supported by factual evidence during the races of Philip Island, and even more blatantly Sepang. Times don't lie, and it's as simple as checking the official timing charts of each rider for each lap of both the Australian and the Malaysian GPs and compare them with the recordings of the races, lap by lap. As for the details of the incident at turn 14 which is in discussion: The incriminated action should be viewed in light of the aforementioned ulterior motives displayed by Marc Marquez and his repeated attempts to provoke an incident in the previous laps of the race. Provocation that had already caused Rossi to hand signal to Marquez that he was exceeding the limits. The incident at turn 14 was, as clearly demonstrated by several video captures, only but the latest attempt by Marc Marquez to INTENTIONALLY collide or even worse, cause a crash with Valentino Rossi. It is clear from the footage, that at the instant Marquez hits Rossi with his forearm, shoulder and helmet, Rossi is already looking into the turn to drive out. If you have ever ridden a sport bike on a track you will know that in those circumstances in which several bikes find themselves fighting for the same piece of tarmac it is a normal safety reflex from riders the widen their elbows or knees a little to avoid bikes and especially handlebars and brake levers colliding into each other. You will also know that while leaning to the right and weighting your inside foot peg, what keeps you on the bike is your outside knee on the tank. Hardly a good position to kick any moving motorbike with enough strength to cause it even to wobble, let alone fall down. And even assuming you were able to pull it off, your own bike would be so upset by the shift in forces that it would act very nervously and shaky as well....while Rossi's bike glides smoothly out of the turn without as much as a head-shake. In that instant Rossi acted instinctively, not trying to cause Marquez's fall, but rather in an attempt to protect his own incolumity. Marquez had nothing to lose in that moment, while Rossi knew that going to the ground in that instant would have meant the end of the championship chase. Had Rossi allowed Marquez to crash him out as he was clearly attempting to, Rossi would have lost all chances to the title no matter how severe the punishment inflicted to Marquez would have been. Rossi only did what he had to do to survive a kamikaze attack. Even more unjustly, both Marquez and Lorenzo used the LIE of a presumed Rossi kick to demand and incite the harshest possible penalty be inflicted on Rossi. To be noted that this happened in the immediate aftermath of the race without time for either riders to even remove their leathers...and yet the two Spaniards were already in such agreement...giving even more credibility to Rossi's words. Should the sanction inflicted to Valentino Rossi not be revoked, this will seal the DEATH of MOTOGP as the individual sport it was intended to be, where every competitor, no matter his ranking makes an implicit promise of competing HONESTLY to the best of his own ability. It's called sportsmanship. The day we accept that a racer, for whatever personal/political/economical reason purposefully slows down and alters the values and results of any race, is the day racing becomes pointless. The day we allow a private organization to permit that athletes of its own country make allegiances that go beyond the duties of team-mates and bend the values of the competition to some alternative interest, is the day we accept that the real spirit of racing was killed."

All this would be true if it weren't so obvious that Rossi actually slowed down to catch Marquez in the right spot... he had all the speed and the line to carry through the corner much faster, but he actually slowed down and widened his turn, looking in Marquez' direction to verify his position... 

Oh, I'm not saying Marquez is innocent, 'cause he probably provoked and provoked and provoked until Rossi couldn't stand it anymore... in his mind actually believing that Marquez was sabotaging him in favor of Lorenzo, but still... it Was Vale's task to be the bigger man in this, solving it in a sporty way, not by resorting to foul play... I have been a ginormous admirer of Rossi, but this is unforgivable... Kinda reminds me of Kimi's childish remarks towards Verstappen on several occasions, just out of frustration...

John H:

Probably the most accurate angle to show 'what actually happened' - from the helicopter camera...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Tv0voGsDl0

An interesting 'take' on the incident from an unbiased amateur rider....

"unbiased"?  doesn't get any more bias than that, just how he words the account makes all to obvious. I have riden bikes since 8-9 years of age, and seen track time as well, and what this guys writes is a fairytale. Reminds me of a creationist trying to debunk evolution with pseudosciencific explanations.

Like Joost says, Rossi looks back three times to Marquez while readjusting his line and speed to meet Marquez, if that is not deliberate I don't know what is.

Even the leyend himself, Giacomo Agostini has publicly spoken about it:
http://www.motorsport.com/motogp/news/rossi-lost-his-head-during-marquez-fight-says-agostini/

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⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Okay Carlos, I'm not trying to contradict you in any way...

What I meant by 'unbiased' is that the writer is neither Spanish nor Italian - so no nationality bias!!

I said in my first post on this incident, earlier in this thread... "Rossi has seriously blotted his copybook!  No possible excuses for that moment of madness"...  And I still stand by this point of view.  Subsequent posts and videos have brought up all sorts of conflicting contentions - BUT the main issue remains one of who was within the rules and who wasn't..!

Obviously, Marquez was intimidating, irritating to Rossi and possibly unsportsmanlike, but he didn't break any written rules..!

Rossi, on the other hand, over-reacted and did break a rule.  I'm not sure he kicked at Marquez, but he did purposely slow down and take him out wide - that, in itself, constitutes a contravention of the safe racing rule and, for that alone, he deserves his penalty!!

Carlos, please don't think I'm arguing against you - I know my place with you when it comes to motorcycling..!!   

"Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."

John H:

Okay Carlos, I'm not trying to contradict you in any way...

What I meant by 'unbiased' is that the writer is neither Spanish nor Italian - so no nationality bias!!

Sorry John, my bad! I completely misunderstood you  In see what you meant 

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Both riders lost a lot in turn 14. Rossi lost some of his magic, Marquez lost sympathy with many viewers.

Still, I would rather be remembered as a legend who lost his cool once than a tool who interfered with a championship.

Rossi did wait for MM , which is a big evidence against him . 

But the kick he did against MM is not a big kick . It is a tiny one . Barely a touch . I find it strange that this action made MM fall . 

I am a big fan of MM, but he also lost some respect to me by the way he was ' irritating ' Rossi the whole time and fighting a battle that was not needed .

 997.2 C2 ,  -20mm  I 964 Carrera 4 I 991 GT3 RS 

@Gnil

I am a big fan of MM, but he also lost some respect to me by the way he was ' irritating ' Rossi the whole time and fighting a battle that was not needed .

+1

The best would be if @Valencia DP would win in front of MM and JL whilst VR is becoming 6th and secure the championship with 1pt in front of JL!

VR has been the most consistant rider all season and he was competitif in every race, improved a lot during the races compared to his "raw speed on a single lap" and drove - besides his Sepang action - like a true wise master...

Gnil:

Rossi did wait for MM , which is a big evidence against him . 

But the kick he did against MM is not a big kick . It is a tiny one . Barely a touch . I find it strange that this action made MM fall . 

I am a big fan of MM, but he also lost some respect to me by the way he was ' irritating ' Rossi the whole time and fighting a battle that was not needed .

A kick like that can bring MM down if it hits the rights spot, for example if Rossi hit MM's right foot peg and downward, thats an easy wipe when the bike is at maximum lean angle, if it was a lateral kick to the bike's body and higher then it would not have influenced much, but from the video we cannot see were he hit. Personally I think it was the bikes colliding that mostly did it and the kick maybe just helped it offor maybe not at all, but thats not the important thing with the kick, to me the kick is the principle of it what a the gesture of a kick denotes during a deliberate collision after Rossi slowed down in the curve to find and meet Marquez. 

With the bike how MM has it at that point, it doesn't take much for it to go over the edge traction wise, that is why he fell without much fuss, one second he is leaning the next he is down without much violence. I have fallen like that at the track myslelf.

Personally I'm not a fan or Marquez, never cheered for him, don't like his style on the track. Even though everybody says that off the track he is the sweetest kid that keeps a simple life and success has not gotten to him. But it doesn't matter who the rider on the reciving end of Rossi action is, its still worng. Its like a man hitting a women saying the the woman was provoking him, it doesn't matter, he cannot hit her no matter what, nothing will excuse that. 

Not a huge fan of Lorenzo either, that is why up until now I was cheering for Rossi, I thought it would be kind of cool if after all this time he made a comeback and grabs the championship before he retires. But after what he did this weekend I'm not going excuse such an act because of blind support. What is worng is wrong and always hated turning a blind eye to wrongful acts because of bias. Perosnally I like Pedrosa, the nicest guy in the lineup, wish next year he is back on form.

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⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

@CoS

What is worng is wrong and always hated turning a blind eye to wrongful acts because of bias.

+1

Perosnally I like Pedrosa, the nicest guy in the lineup, wish next year he is back on form.

+1

DP seems to be a great driver & person, even when he was suffering from the bad riding of other drivers which caused serious injuries, operations and pain he was never complaining!

Hopefully he'll be at his best next season and win the GP-championship in fromt of VR, but 2015 should be VRs year

In 2016 JL will go to Ducati to join CS as it's rumored that he'll be coming back and win then the title

Stoner always seemed like a nice guy too 

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Stoner's no nice guy, he's like Nico Rosberg, always complaining (about VR, the weather, ...) but at least he's a real racer AND WORLD CHAMPION!!

He's supposed to join Ducati in 2017...

I think that the rals story is that rossi always had some advantage since only he is 60% of the business of the motogp, and dorna have al the interest of havi g such an actor so they could sell the motogp. All this with a spanish boss!!!

stoner was just sick of this different treatment so he quitted motogp. Well this is from an insider ducati guy here in bologna so i really trust what i hear from inside. I'm a ducati fan and so glad that we have iannone which is the only one in the future that can fight the spanish guys.

993 c2