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I don't own any and think it is massively overvalued. My above comments still stand.
That said, I wish I owned some SpaceX like my brother-in-law. That will be Elon's path to true glory and will probably never go public.
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Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region
I don't own any single name stocks so no TSLA, but short interest is a whopping 25% of the float and billions have already been lost being short. If you don't know it, being short costs money (stock loan), so to say the stock will go down is one thing, but to make money on that idea is another...
Agreed SciFrog! I always look at it like this: Buying a stock has a finite loss potential (it goes to zero) but technically shorting has an infinite loss potential (plus borrow costs, dividend repayments if there is any etc.).
The return has to be that much higher to get the same level of risk adjusted return when shorting.
Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region
Jun 1, 2017 10:07:04 PM
Mithras:My god you guys are Black and White with everything! I know I'm not too different sometimes but jeeze!
Tesla is not the best car manufacturer in the world.
Tesla is not the worst car manufacturer in the world.
They have a LOT of cash, but not anywhere as much as one of the major car manufacturers. They are hiring high quality people because 1) people want to work there, 2) they are paying well 3) they need to create from blank sheets new things and aren't burdened by history or legacy. 4) they have a boss that isn't afraid of radical thinking or moving on if it isn't working. They are rapidly getting better but some aspects of the cars still need to come a long way. They are hiring people that should be able to make those changes (interior designers from Audi for example).
They were never going to be the sole player in the EV world, they will be one of many, most of whom are better know car manufacturers. BUT they have first mover advantage. When a regular person thinks "Electric Car", they probably think Tesla. That is much more valuable than had they started as an ICE or Hybrid manufacturer that then got into EV.
They also have a massive advantage with their charging grid. Not just on the road but parked in your garage charging from a Tesla house module powered from your Tesla roof, supplemented from the Tesla solar power station into the Tesla built battery.
Pretty much EVERY Hybrid and EV has started to use Panasonic batteries (18650) and the new better ones (2170) are only at the moment for Tesla from the Gigafactory. Between that factory and the Panasonic one in Dalian that will be the source of the vast majority of all batteries regardless of maker. That alone will insure that Tesla stays relevant because that whole market is beyond opaque and now controlled by Panasonic and Tesla. Kind of like if 40% of the world's cars had engines make by Ford. You might not drive a Ford, but your car is driven by Ford...
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Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region
Tesla may have what appears cash on the balance sheet but the amount lags what is necessary to fund new product development and to support its operations. Tesla, as you are probably aware, has tapped the cap mkts, in the last few months with debt offerings and secondaries to increase the cash on hand. Automaking is a capital intensive business and while Tesla is fleshing out its product line with the Model 3, it needs to also be revamping its current lineup as well as developing new product. The Model S, for example, is nearing the point of revamp. Meanwhile, others, and one agrees that Tesla has the first mover advantage, are developing comparable product. Recall that Apple is seldom the first mover in a product vertical.
Jun 13, 2017 2:09:35 PM
First ever SUV (if you now can call it SUV) to get 5-star safety rating in all categories (NHTSA).
https://electrek.co/2017/06/13/tesla-model-x-5-star-safety-rating-nhtsa/
Jun 13, 2017 5:19:25 PM
Jun 13, 2017 6:10:43 PM
Carlos from Spain:You can put lipstick on it and try to call it a SUV but In Europe we call that a minivan
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⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS
No need for lipstick. Already got a modern look and feels much more contemporary than for example Audi Q7 or Cayenne. Might also have something to do with the fact that all other cars in comparison feels so dated in the tech and drivetrain department.
Jun 13, 2017 6:42:46 PM
Sure if you like minivans, personally for me they are the antithesis to sportscars, and they can never be cool or look good by definition, electric or gas, makes no difference. I can drive a Cayenne or Q7, no problem, a sedan, OK... a minivan, no, just... no. And don't get me going on minivan drivers...
⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS
Jun 13, 2017 6:53:25 PM
Jun 13, 2017 11:07:37 PM
Jun 14, 2017 12:11:50 PM
Carlos from Spain:You can put lipstick on it and try to call it a SUV but In Europe we call that a minivan
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⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS
Marketing seems to work well in the US...
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)
SciFrog:Call it a minivan if you want, but it is looking so much better than any other out there that who cares... and it sells very well, packed with technology and two trunks...
I would never get one, my wife hates how it looks (minivan) and most people who like it seem to be in some sort of ELV trance (or coma? 
) because this thing is ugly as hell.
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)
Was admiring one again today.
A minivan has a boxy look, a short front, a tall roof and a boxy rear. The X is not like that with a sloping roof in the rear. One can guess you call it a minivan because the floor of the car is not as low as a SUV but that help center of gravity, handling and practicality of the car which is also why crossover are getting so popular.
By starting from scratch, Telsla managed to build a much better vehicle than other manufacturers because it didn't have the constraints of having to stuff an engine and a fuel tank but just batteries and power train. You might not like how it looks, but the X is beyond anything that's out there today.
Jun 14, 2017 1:39:04 PM
Its a Prius blown up to minivan size. The Model X is to a SUV what a scooter is to a touring motorcycle 
Its egg shaped, flat on the sides, and most of all it rides low to the ground like a sedan or station wagon. Its not a SUV, its not even a CUV (crossover)... its a 6000lbs 100% fugly minivan.
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⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS
Jun 14, 2017 2:26:04 PM
Jun 29, 2017 10:02:07 AM
Video: Porsche tries to keep up with a Model S and the result is hilarious
BjoernB:in Switzerland they just had a article saying it takes 17 tons CO2 to produce just the batteries for ONE tesla - equal to 8 years average consumption of a normal Petrol car........nuff said......
ELVs aren't really "cleaner" but this is something many people don't want to hear. At least the direct pollution in larger cities will be reduced, which will make a lot of asthmatics happy (hopefully).
I think that ELVs will get a breakthrough once the charging infrastructure grows, the charging time itself will be cut down (5 minutes or less per full charge) and when even smaller ELVs in the lower price range will have fabulous performance values.
At some point however, I'm afraid, the government will add a substantial amount of (environmentally justified) taxes on electricity because of the CO2 excess for ELV production. Which will very likely make electricity more expensive for all of us because they cannot really discern between electricity for ELVs and electricity for households or companies.
Green tech is a huge market but green taxes are a huge income source for governments as well.
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)
BjoernB:in Switzerland they just had a article saying it takes 17 tons CO2 to produce just the batteries for ONE tesla - equal to 8 years average consumption of a normal Petrol car........nuff said......
Built on research that has so many errors with alternative facts comparing apples with oranges.
Report is based on:
- Production of largest battery available which is far from the average battery size (100kW Tesla)
- Production with coal powered electricity
- Production based on tech 5 years ago and a lot has happened since
- Production not based at all on Tesla production mix. Just do some research and you'll learn that its much more clean than the report suggest.
- They used a tiny small car with combustion engine (150hk or so) in the comparison and average consumption based on NEDC-values/lab tests which we all know are not realistic in the real world. Funny to compare a little small minicar with small engine and manufacturing of the heaviest and most powerful Tesla. This fact alone just prove that it is not a realistic comparison. At least compare it with a decent sized car with a bigger engine or compare production with a small BMW i3 and its battery.
- Calculations based on that manufacturing the ICE car equals Zero emissions and only produce CO2 while consuming oil on the road.Huh, why did they completely forgot that. Just like manufacturing a combustion engine and drivetrain doesn't produce any CO-emissions... They compared running on with an existing vehicle with ICE and not comparing if the customer considered a NEW ev or ice car. Then it would look completely different.
- They also completely forgot that manufacturing 1 litre of oil require electricity. And then we haven't even consider transporting the refined oil to the pump.
With disruptive changes there will always be a lot of things appearing like this created by those who are threatened. Nothing new with that and we will continue to see similar articles and reports.
Btw, I hear that the earth is flat:
http://blackbag.gawker.com/the-earth-is-flat-explained-1755002534
koko:
Video: Porsche tries to keep up with a Model S and the result is hilarious
Cayman was on cold tires, plus, the Tesla break tested him in the turn.
Kidding aside, acceleration is phenomenal 
Jun 29, 2017 11:36:23 AM
Gauss:koko:
Video: Porsche tries to keep up with a Model S and the result is hilarious
the Tesla break tested him in the turn.
⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS
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