Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Problems with Porsche

Apr 6, 2006 7:02:03 PM

Hurst: Veteran; Loc: Potomac, MD; Posts: 1255, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 15, 2005; Reply to: nberry

Re: Problems with Porsche

Quote:
nberry said:
Hurst your too rational. Cars are all about emotion. What generates emotion differs from person to person. However, if the object remains primarily the same but with enhancements, after time the emotional attachment begins to wane.

So it is with Porsche. It was an icon to many of us when we were young. It had a special place in the automotive world and people coveted the car. However time has a way of dimming the luster of an object unless the object is modernized and refreshed.

I believe many Porschephiles have lost the strong emotional draw and are trying to find reasons to purchase the car. Thus the undue emphasis on hp, performance and racing. They want something special and extraordinary because that is how they remember the car.

Porsche is not marketing to the Porschephiles. It wants the general auto buyer and competes in that expanded market segment. Up until now, very successfully.

I completely agree with you about emotion. It's comments like this that I do not agree with:

Quote:
Thus when you buy a Porsche, it is not a special occasion because you are buying along with the masses.

Your own personal emotional response should be a sensory experience that is fomented by your apperception of the object. Why should it be guided by the views of others or the grouping with the masses?

Don't get me wrong, exclusivity is definitely a human hierarchical function, but it should not run egomaniacally rampant.

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Apr 6, 2006 11:54:12 PM

DamienL: Veteran; Loc: Ontario, Canada; Posts: 890, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 14, 2005; Reply to: nberry

Re: Problems with Porsche

Quote:
nberry said:
Quote:
DamienL said:
With regards to Porsche's styling of the 911 being basically unchanged since the 1960s, the quote in my signature sums up my thoughts nicely.

Damien, regarding the quote "to improve is hard". Or is it just being lazy?

From a design point of view, I don't personally see it as being lazy. In fact I think it would be harder than most of us think to continuously evolve a car for so long. I think the design of the 997 looks modern, while retaining the style of the original. Just because something is new and different, doesn't necessarily make it better.

That said, what if Porsche decided to drop a GT3 motor into a Cayman and found it to be superior to the 997? I'm sure that they still wouldn't build it since it would hurt the 997's image as the top performing production car Porsche offers.

Nick, as you stated in another thread, Porsche is doing the right thing form a marketing perspective. I agree 100%. They know what the 911 represents and wouldn't do anything to tarnish that reputation. Unfortunately that also means holding other, possibly better

cars back, and that's the biggest problem I see.

I'm still waiting for the headlines in the newspaper to read, "Engineers Overthrow Marketing Executives at Porsche in Bloody Coup!"

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Apr 7, 2006 12:18:58 PM

john999s: Senior; Loc:; Posts: 537, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 10, 2005; Reply to: DamienL

Re: Problems with Porsche

The last time there was a coup and they tried to replace the 911 (928), customers bought 911's and killed the technically superior

(at that time) 928.

And the 924 was a 4 cylinder car deisgned as an Audi and built by Porsche with the bottom half an LT van engine

-which went on to be 944, 968 with a Porsche 4 cylinder etc.

At least the minumum cylinders is 6 now, it's not based on a van engine and even though it is marketing led, I think all of the vehicles stack-up as great cars in their own right. (I'm not sure I consider Cayenne a true Porsche....)

So to a degree I suppose Porsche has been engineering led from time to time but in the end the market itself and customers have determined what they build. surely that's the way it should be?

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Apr 7, 2006 2:41:28 PM

DamienL: Veteran; Loc: Ontario, Canada; Posts: 890, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 14, 2005; Reply to: john999s

Re: Problems with Porsche

I agree that all Porsche vehicles are great, they combine performance, quality, and versatility like no other car I can think of. As for the Cayenne, find another SUV that you can actually take off-roading and then take to a track.

I think the typical Porsche customer has changed over the years. The true enthsiast today doesn't account for a very large percentage of Porsche buyers. Porsche is a brilliant company, but I worry that marketing is holding the cars back a little. I'm sure everyone would like to see a Cayman with an LSD, or a 997 Trubo with 500+hp.

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Apr 7, 2006 4:54:06 PM

DamienL: Veteran; Loc: Ontario, Canada; Posts: 890, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 14, 2005; Reply to: DamienL

Re: Problems with Porsche

Just to add a little to my post above (I was in a bit of a rush this morning as you can see with my inventive spelling of the word Turbo

), I'll be very interested to see what happens with Porsche's model line in the future.
I have heard that Porsche is seriously considering a Cayman RS, and the numbers for the Turbo could be underrated in typical Porsche fashion. We'll just have to wait and see.

My dream is that one day the marketing department and engineering department will live together in harmony.

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Apr 7, 2006 5:42:46 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: DamienL

Re: Problems with Porsche

Quote:
DamienL said:
My dream is that one day the marketing department and engineering department will live together in harmony.

Yes. It could be done. Fire all the engineers and send half the marketing team to engineering school

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Apr 7, 2006 7:55:37 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 7673, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: Crash

Re: Problems with Porsche

Quote:
Crash said:
Quote:
DamienL said:
My dream is that one day the marketing department and engineering department will live together in harmony.

Yes. It could be done. Fire all the engineers and send half the marketing team to engineering school .

I'm more inclined to think that that would result in the remaining marketing / engineering teams living in poverty, which seldom results in harmony.

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Apr 8, 2006 4:02:32 PM

Ferdie: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Europe , Germany; Posts: 6583, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 2, 2004; Reply to: nberry

Re: Problems with Porsche

Quote:
nberry said:
...Damien, regarding the quote "to improve is hard". Or is it just being lazy?

Nick,

lazy can a company be called when they use unrelated design themes on their entry-model sportscar! And which saves the development of sideairbags for a car that can be used almost daily!

Apart from that I agree with Intouch's attitude, as much as I love Porsche cars and would love to get a decent model - it hurts to see that the details were overrun by some accountants, the marketing compromises and the considerable depreciation...

I don't even think that competition has grown that significant, Ferraris, Lambos, Astons and just as much the Corvette still have drawbacks that would hinder my intention to buy one. Apart from that they are (save the Vette) still significantly more expensive. A mildly used 997 S should be almost half as much as a similiar used F430!
The Carrera is, at least in Germany and from my point of view, not special enough to keep it as a weekend toy but too expensive and exclusive to consider it a regular daily driver to me...

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Apr 8, 2006 6:14:02 PM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 7467, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: Ferdie

Re: Problems with Porsche

Quote:
Ferdie said:
Quote:
nberry said:
...Damien, regarding the quote "to improve is hard". Or is it just being lazy?

Nick,

lazy can a company be called when they use unrelated design themes on their entry-model sportscar! And which saves the development of sideairbags for a car that can be used almost daily!

Apart from that I agree with Intouch's attitude, as much as I love Porsche cars and would love to get a decent model - it hurts to see that the details were overrun by some accountants, the marketing compromises and the considerable depreciation...

I don't even think that competition has grown that significant, Ferraris, Lambos, Astons and just as much the Corvette still have drawbacks that would hinder my intention to buy one. Apart from that they are (save the Vette) still significantly more expensive. A mildly used 997 S should be almost half as much as a similiar used F430!
The Carrera is, at least in Germany and from my point of view, not special enough to keep it as a weekend toy but too expensive and exclusive to consider it a regular daily driver to me...

Ferdie, with the exception of the first paragraph which I do not understand, I agree with the rest of your post.

Success stifles creativity and breeds arrogance. I truly believe Porsche is at that point. They think anything they produce today will sell regardless of the long term consequences. Several US companies suffered from the same malady and they paid dearly.

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Apr 12, 2006 1:29:56 PM

Ferdie: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Europe , Germany; Posts: 6583, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 2, 2004; Reply to: nberry

Re: Problems with Porsche

Quote:
nberry said:
...Ferdie, with the exception of the first paragraph which I do not understand, I agree with the rest of your post.

...Several US companies suffered from the same malady and they paid dearly.

No wonder you didn't get the first paragraph, since it was about Ferrari...

Quote:

... Several US companies suffered from the same malady and they paid dearly.

Now I can wholeheartly agree on this one!

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