Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Has the 911, lost it !!

Apr 4, 2006 3:04:33 AM

POR911: Pilot; Loc: VA; Posts: 324, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2005

Has the 911, lost it !!

Wondering, has any one happen to read the artical, DIAL 911 in the new motor trend. It has a comparision with the 911 and the chev Z06, Cayman S, Aston V8 Vantage, not titling the 911 the victor to any except the Cayman which they end with a sly quote "Being the only competitor the 911's creators have anthing to say about" in a way saying that it is controled to not be as good as the 911. The 911 loses to the Z06 due to the power, which in my opinion is not a fare comparison, only in price. The 911 loses also to the aston due to the aston being the better looking of the two, in there words "Clearly this car is less about the launching in a cloud of tire or clutch smoke and more about arriving in unsurpassed style".

In my opinion there is no comparision to the 911, although there are many valid point why a future customer would shy away and opt for any of these other vehicle. Is the the 911 really falling behind? How can it improve?

My intention is not to start a Z06 vs 911 tread , but i just wanted to hear some opinions.

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Apr 4, 2006 3:13:48 AM

Silver Bullet: Veteran; Loc: Canada; Posts: 1126, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 24, 2004; Reply to: POR911

Re: Has the 911, lost it !!

If you search, you might be able to find that this article has been discussed . . .

Listen - its been a while since I read it, but in the end, I think they still conclude that the 911 is the benchmark against which all the others are tested, and that while the Z06 might outperform a 911 in raw numbers, and an Aston might turn more heads, and a Cayman might have the potential to be better than a 911, the 911 is still the king, because no one car does it all better.

As for the contention that the Cayman is intentionally held back, I believe that to be completely true and driven purely by smart marketing. The heritage of the 911 is golden - PAG is smart enough not to threaten the king. It will be interesting to see what effect the aftermarket offerings have on Cayman vs 911 comparisons.

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Apr 4, 2006 3:16:44 AM

Silver Bullet: Veteran; Loc: Canada; Posts: 1126, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 24, 2004; Reply to: Silver Bullet

Re: Has the 911, lost it !!

Try this:
http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=203476&page=3&fpart=1&vc=1

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Apr 4, 2006 3:20:55 AM

POR911: Pilot; Loc: VA; Posts: 324, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2005; Reply to: Silver Bullet

Re: Has the 911, lost it !!

sorry for the repost, appreciate the response!

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Apr 4, 2006 11:39:28 AM

GA997S: Veteran; Loc: Athens, Georgia, USA; Posts: 1059, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 19, 2005; Reply to: POR911

Re: Has the 911, lost it !!

Why compare the AM & Z06 w/ 997S then compare the Cayman w/ the non S in the same article?

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Apr 4, 2006 1:32:39 PM

brownie: Newbie; Loc: MO USA; Posts: 23, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 21, 2005; Reply to: GA997S

Re: Has the 911, lost it !!

Please note that with all of the criticism of Motor Trend they have a 997S in Atlas Gray in their longterm fleet. So far they indicate that the car is one of the best they have ever had and that the quality, performance and appearance all make it a true winner.

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Apr 4, 2006 1:47:07 PM

Dilinger: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Athens,Greece , Greece; Posts: 2016, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 23, 2004; Reply to: brownie

Re: Has the 911, lost it !!

sometimes they blake the king ,just the caught some readers attention.....

But the king is there

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Apr 4, 2006 2:18:22 PM

edz: Rennteam Pro; Loc: South Orange County; Posts: 2022, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 11, 2005; Reply to: Silver Bullet

Re: Has the 911, lost it !!

Silevrbullet is right, Amen to that brother. Gents the Z06 is a Chevy, damn fast and bang for the bucks unbeatable. Nevertheless it is not a 911 despite it's performance.
911 has the blood of a champion, has been and will always be a champion. No disrespect to Vette drivers as I still like Vettes but where I live a Vette is considered a punk car. True or not who cares, it's a damn fine car for around $70,000. 911 is a legend that will never ever die. I think if 911 had died by now, perahps the whole porsche compnay would have died along with it. 911 is the soul of the Porsche factory. Would you prefer to wear a one karat flawless diamond or a 5 karat fake CZ? That is the comparison between the Vette and the 911

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Apr 4, 2006 2:41:16 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: edz

Re: Has the 911, lost it !!

Reasons I have 997S over CaymanS:

1. Looks are more substantial, performance is refined, sophisticated, serious, non-chick styling, is THE Porsche blah blah blah.

2. has more HP

3. has more leg, back, cabin room

If the cayman had 400+ hp I might trade 997S in for one because the mid-engine driving is more fun.

Corvette? Never! Has a muscle car and gold chain w/ hairy chest image and has a dreadfully cheap feeling; what's worse is it's made by GM which can only do one thing: make good cheap cars for the masses.

Also, never listen to anything a USA car mag sez because mostly 16-21 year old guys are the ones who are reading it; fantasizing on which car they would buy IF they had the money.

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Apr 4, 2006 2:46:35 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: GA997S

Re: Has the 911, lost it !!

Quote:
GA997S said:
Why compare the AM & Z06 w/ 997S then compare the Cayman w/ the non S in the same article?

Because they're a USA car mag and can do whatever they want in order to do the same article over and over.

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Apr 4, 2006 2:47:53 PM

edz: Rennteam Pro; Loc: South Orange County; Posts: 2022, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 11, 2005; Reply to: MMD

Re: Has the 911, lost it !!

IMHO, if Cayman was even a better car or faster, I would still take the 911. I truly believe Porsche will never build a car to be better than the 911. It may be better but it will be a different league than the 911. Some of you may shoot me for asking this, but why on earth did Porsche build the Cayman in the 1st place. The obvious reason is profit but Cayman is not a boxter or a 911 and the money you spend on a loaded cayman will buy you a basic 997 so why buy one?

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Apr 4, 2006 4:48:58 PM

The Groom: Expert; Loc: EU; Posts: 1779, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 23, 2005; Reply to: edz

Re: Has the 911, lost it !!

Quote:
edz61 said:Cayman is not a 911 and the money you spend on a loaded cayman will buy you a basic 997 so why buy one?

A Cayman S has about the same performance as a base Carrera for $20k less. And it's more fun to boot! So why buy a Carrera?

(except for rear seats, AWD or Targa roof!

)

And sorry, the Cayman IS a hardtop Boxster. It is marketed as a separate model because Porsche is unwilling to sell it for 986 prices at current USD/EUR exchange rates.
Expect Boxster prices to rise to Cayman levels in the future, not the opposite.

There seems to be a lot of hate on this forum about the Cayman. It is also obvious that the Boxster and Cayman are being held back so as not to hurt the 911. I think Porsche should just sell them with the same engines at the same price and let buyers choose between rear and mid engine setups.

2.7 240hp $ 40,000 (987 only)
3.2 265hp $ 50,000
3.4 295hp $ 60,000
3.6 325hp $ 70,000
3.8 355hp $ 80,000
X51 385hp $ 90,000
GT3 415hp $100,000
RS 445hp $110,000
TT 475hp $125,000
TTS 515hp $135,000
GT2 545hp $145,000
AWD: +$5k, Targa: +$5k, Cabriolet: +$5k on 987, +$6k on 997.
Makes sense to me.

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Apr 4, 2006 5:23:31 PM

edz: Rennteam Pro; Loc: South Orange County; Posts: 2022, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 11, 2005; Reply to: The Groom

Re: Has the 911, lost it !!

I don't hate Cayman, I think the S is a beautiful car. And I know it's a hard top Boxter. Last week at the dealer I saw a loaded Cayman S fro $76,000 and I thought wow, it's nice but not worth the $77K. Hey the beauty is in the eye of beholder and Porsche does not make junk cars. They are nice so it's a matter of one's taste and their budget

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Apr 4, 2006 6:16:48 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA; Posts: 2022, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: edz

Re: Has the 911, lost it !!

This month Motor Trendy dedicated a gaggle of pages and the cover to compare future THEORETICAL Camaros with current and future Mustangs that don't yet exist....

Maybe when I was 12 years old I would have gotten fired up by cobbled comparos of imaginary cars..

Yes, I ruthlessly trash-talk MT..... because I think they deserve it. "Dial 911"..."Mustang vs. Camaro", the last two issues, are solid evidence that they'll do ANYTHING to draw kids and Larry the Cable Guy to purchase at the newsstand. Unless something major changes, I'm dropping the subcription after 20-some years.

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Apr 4, 2006 6:31:46 PM

JimFlat6: Rennteam Master; Loc: Forrest , United States; Posts: 5543, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2004; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: Has the 911, lost it !!

Ao you arent waiting for their comparison test of a Buick Lucerne with 'Radial Tuned Suspension' and a new BMW M5?

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Apr 4, 2006 7:14:45 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 7673, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: edz

Re: Has the 911, lost it !!

Quote:
edz61 said:
Would you prefer to wear a one karat flawless diamond or a 5 karat fake CZ? That is the comparison between the Vette and the 911

Interesting analogy.

A think a jeweller would confirm that there are healthy markets for both products: small volume of high value diamonds and larger volume of low value fakes.

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Apr 4, 2006 7:59:17 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA; Posts: 2022, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: fritz

Re: Has the 911, lost it !!

Ehhh, I think that's a bit harsh on the Vette. Both are valid "diamonds", and the Corvette is an impressive piece of engineering despite the shortcuts made in the name of keeping the price low (interior/exterior/trim assembly). At it's skeleton, and at it's heart, it's an impressive machine, just with some flaws and crudities that lower it's overall "value" and perceived "perfection" compared with a 911.

A FAR more valid analogy would be a one karat flawless diamond with excellent color, vs. a two karat diamond, but with flaws and not as brilliant colorwise.

The only analogy that works for diamond vs. CZ is where the diamond is a new F430, and the CZ is an '85 Fiero with the new F430 full body kit!!!!

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