Crown

MKSGR:

macca993:

Totally agree Peter. However the GT series cars have always been numbers cars even if most of us can never come close to replicating the numbers.

 

I agree - also, one can expect some additional performance for the extra 50k the GT3RS is over the GT3...

I am disappointed 

The price difference cannot be measured by the performance alone. To Porsche it suffices that the RS is quicker than the GT3, by how much is irrelevant as long as it stays coherent (in price and performance) with their future plans, like e.g. the next generation GT3 which will need to be at least just as quick as the current RS. Granted, the RS is expensive, but it is still a bargain compared to what the other premium brands are asking.

Porsche 911 GT3 - Guards Red 997 MKII Clubsport

Thanks for the update Peter.

if on excitement to drive, future residuals and out right "EVO ness" the Speciale wins for me hands down. But it is not the car you need for the type of driving you will go and it's probably a bit extreme to go on long tours with your wife.

the RS looks a little OTT and probably again is not a practical choice for your usage.

the GT3 is probably more suited but perhaps would have been better purchased back in 2013

i really like the F12 as an option and I don't think you need to bother with the GTO variant. Obviously breaking from Ferrari is going to cost you money as they will give a better price for your F458 if you stay in the family. To me the F12 is the perfect solution for long inter continental travel plus pure performance. It's the modern day 550/575 and I'm sure it will go down in history....

All IMHO of course :-)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2014 991 GT3, 1994 993C2 6spd RS spec, 2016 Cayman GT4 (on order)

Airtemp at the N'Ring was 36 deg and tarmac 48 deg which is very hot. During the last VLN the laptimes in V6 when it was similarly hot were 10 sec. slower than compared when it is 20 deg. In Spa for example we lose 2-3 sec in the afternoon compared to the morning laps. Same in Hockenheim which is even shorter than Spa.

The RS on the cup2 tyres is in my opinion very quick taking the temps into account. If you want to shell out 50k more than for an already fast GT3 is a personal decision.

Mike

M3ike:

Airtemp at the N'Ring was 36 deg and tarmac 48 deg which is very hot. During the last VLN the laptimes in V6 when it was similarly hot were 10 sec. slower than compared when it is 20 deg. In Spa for example we lose 2-3 sec in the afternoon compared to the morning laps. Same in Hockenheim which is even shorter than Spa.

The RS on the cup2 tyres is in my opinion very quick taking the temps into account. If you want to shell out 50k more than for an already fast GT3 is a personal decision.

Mike

Great info on temps and lap time.  

Mike

918 Spyder + Carrera GT #0911 + Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S + Panamera Turbo +  BMW Z8 + BMW 3.0 CSi + Bentley Arnage T

The experiment is invalid if you cannot reliably achieve an essential variable required for the experiment.  How can you measure the boiling temperature of a liquid if it never comes to a boil? Once a speed limit is imposed and the vehicle is normally capable of exceeding the imposed limit the test cannot provide data that fully accounts for the potential performance envelope. Other vehicle variables may also be affected which are less easily measured and hence accounted for. Bad data for the sake of data.

"Don't worry about avoiding temptation, as you grow older it will avoid you"  Churchill

macca993:

Thanks for the update Peter.

if on excitement to drive, future residuals and out right "EVO ness" the Speciale wins for me hands down. But it is not the car you need for the type of driving you will go and it's probably a bit extreme to go on long tours with your wife.

the RS looks a little OTT and probably again is not a practical choice for your usage.

the GT3 is probably more suited but perhaps would have been better purchased back in 2013

i really like the F12 as an option and I don't think you need to bother with the GTO variant. Obviously breaking from Ferrari is going to cost you money as they will give a better price for your F458 if you stay in the family. To me the F12 is the perfect solution for long inter continental travel plus pure performance. It's the modern day 550/575 and I'm sure it will go down in history....

All IMHO of course :-)

 

hi mark,

re speciale: you are probably right, but since the 488 speciale is only two years out ....(and i hear it will be very very special:::)))

re F12: a facelift is due soon. you drop 100K euros in 6 months if you buy it now...

re GT3 RS looks: very true, the GT3 design is much more coherent. but i guess the RS engine is...hmmmm...more stable let us say. and it guarantees good residuals.

i hope F12 GTO (or more likely SWB).

p

pmarkow:

re:speciale: you are probably right, but since the 488 speciale is only two years out ....(and i hear it will be very very special:::)))

p

488 MMS Molto Molto Speciale

Sorry to interrupt the thread but this just made me laugh

WTF????

Now we are looking to air temperature to explain a less than stellar performance of the RS? I assume SA (who has been doing these test for years with credible results) would have taken this factor into account before posting their results or at least explain it.

Look the RS is a better and faster car than the 991GT3. On that there can be no doubt. Is it worth $50,000 more? To some it is and to others it is like take the $50,000 and lighting a match to it.

Of little, to make much: That is the dream of a human life.

nberry:

WTF????

Now we are looking to air temperature to explain a less than stellar performance of the RS? I assume SA (who has been doing these test for years with credible results) would have taken this factor into account before posting their results or at least explain it.

Look the RS is a better and faster car than the 991GT3. On that there can be no doubt. Is it worth $50,000 more? To some it is and to others it is like take the $50,000 and lighting a match to it.

SA mentions several times in their article that the high temperatures affect the performance negatively and with better conditions the result would have been better. On top of that the author and driver Christian Gebhardt wished he could have had more practise laps to get more out of the car.

Mike

Excuses. Car isn't exactly what everyone thought it was going to be. It's a slightly better and wilder looking GT3. You decide if it's worth the massive premium.

I'm sure it's great, but if you want  amazing numbers these days from a road car, you need more power. Don't expect any 911 to scorch the ring with 500hp and low torque. It's not a race car.

For me, normal GT3 is a no-brainer for 95% of the experience.

M3ike:

nberry:

WTF????

Now we are looking to air temperature to explain a less than stellar performance of the RS? I assume SA (who has been doing these test for years with credible results) would have taken this factor into account before posting their results or at least explain it.

Look the RS is a better and faster car than the 991GT3. On that there can be no doubt. Is it worth $50,000 more? To some it is and to others it is like take the $50,000 and lighting a match to it.

SA mentions several times in their article that the high temperatures affect the performance negatively and with better conditions the result would have been better. On top of that the author and driver Christian Gebhardt wished he could have had more practise laps to get more out of the car.

Mike

Mike, what is the point of the article? It would be like taking a car on a rainy wet track and then reporting on its performance. In no way can the reader determine what the optimal car performance is. Also, every test driver wishes he or she had more time with the car. Why undermine the article with these excuses? 

Apparently, SA without HVonS is becoming an unreliable source for sport car performance. If SA felt the test was unfair to the car they should have decided not to publish the article. How many other cars will they use these excuses?

Of little, to make much: That is the dream of a human life.

noone1:

Excuses. Car isn't exactly what everyone thought it was going to be. It's a slightly better and wilder looking GT3. You decide if it's worth the massive premium.

I'm sure it's great, but if you want  amazing numbers these days from a road car, you need more power. Don't expect any 911 to scorch the ring with 500hp and low torque. It's not a race car.

For me, normal GT3 is a no-brainer for 95% of the experience.

The same thing was said when the 997.1 GT3 RS came out and the the 997.2 GT3 RS . Slightly faster , but not any huge difference . But , today the RS ' s premium has not been lost, the price difference has remained on the 2 nd market  , end even increased on the 997.1 RS models .

 997.2 C2 ,  -20mm  I 964 Carrera 4 I 991 GT3 RS on order delivery early Sept .

MKSGR:

macca993:

Totally agree Peter. However the GT series cars have always been numbers cars even if most of us can never come close to replicating the numbers.

 

I agree - also, one can expect some additional performance for the extra 50k the GT3RS is over the GT3...

I am disappointed 

I told you there wouldn't be much difference... 

Why is that actually important? Most 991 GT3 RS owners are using the car for normal street driving with a few track days here and there. This car is track ready as it is...stock.

The extra 50k you pay are for looks, exclusivity and whatnot, so... I bet that in reality, the RS costs Porsche less than 5-10k EUR more to produce than a GT3, making it very likely a very profitable product.

Of course I may be wrong (I have no actual numbers) but I still wonder why these things matter? Yes, the 991 GT3 is probably the best value, along with the GT4 but for me, this doesn't really mean much. If I could afford it, I would still get a GT3 RS right now.

Make no mistake, the GT3 RS is no Autobahn racer, I posted this over and over again. For the Autobahn, the 991 Turbo S (or a Ferrari 488 GTB) makes more sense. Much more sense.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

RC:

MKSGR:

macca993:

Totally agree Peter. However the GT series cars have always been numbers cars even if most of us can never come close to replicating the numbers.

 

I agree - also, one can expect some additional performance for the extra 50k the GT3RS is over the GT3...

I am disappointed 

I told you there wouldn't be much difference... 

Why is that actually important? Most 991 GT3 RS owners are using the car for normal street driving with a few track days here and there. This car is track ready as it is...stock.

The extra 50k you pay are for looks, exclusivity and whatnot, so... I bet that in reality, the RS costs Porsche less than 5-10k EUR more to produce than a GT3, making it very likely a very profitable product.

Of course I may be wrong (I have no actual numbers) but I still wonder why these things matter? Yes, the 991 GT3 is probably the best value, along with the GT4 but for me, this doesn't really mean much. If I could afford it, I would still get a GT3 RS right now.

Make no mistake, the GT3 RS is no Autobahn racer, I posted this over and over again. For the Autobahn, the 991 Turbo S (or a Ferrari 488 GTB) makes more sense. Much more sense.

Christian,

I have to tell you that you are wrong regarding the extra cost of the GT3 RS. It is much much higher. The car uses a lot of non-standard parts. Therefore you get a lot of problems during the assemblage. The combination of Turbo body, 918 seats and wheels, extra carbon and magnesium parts is not so easy to handle. If you would get access to the parking slots for reworking you would see a lot of 991 GT3 RS. Every RS gets a detailed check, 991 every 10th car. Every RS will be fixed but not every 991. This reworking process is very expensive.

AM
www.aldo-yachting.de

ALDO:

 

Christian,

I have to tell you that you are wrong regarding the extra cost of the GT3 RS. It is much much higher. The car uses a lot of non-standard parts. Therefore you get a lot of problems during the assemblage. The combination of Turbo body, 918 seats and wheels, extra carbon and magnesium parts is not so easy to handle. If you would get access to the parking slots for reworking you would see a lot of 991 GT3 RS. Every RS gets a detailed check, 991 every 10th car. Every RS will be fixed but not every 991. This reworking process is very expensive.

Thanks Aldo,good news for us,the RS seems really a special car this time!

Fingers crossed!

997TT RS Tuning stage II(sold),2011 Cayenne Turbo(sold),waiting 991 GT3 RS

Super Darius:

ALDO:

 

Christian,

I have to tell you that you are wrong regarding the extra cost of the GT3 RS. It is much much higher. The car uses a lot of non-standard parts. Therefore you get a lot of problems during the assemblage. The combination of Turbo body, 918 seats and wheels, extra carbon and magnesium parts is not so easy to handle. If you would get access to the parking slots for reworking you would see a lot of 991 GT3 RS. Every RS gets a detailed check, 991 every 10th car. Every RS will be fixed but not every 991. This reworking process is very expensive.

Thanks Aldo,good news for us,the RS seems really a special car this time!

Fingers crossed!

On the other side we have lot of RS waiting for reworking  I hope that is not mine, yours or any car from RT member 

AM
www.aldo-yachting.de

Adnan, reworking on RS? What seems to be the problem? Something specific?

ALDO:

Super Darius:

ALDO:

 

Christian,

I have to tell you that you are wrong regarding the extra cost of the GT3 RS. It is much much higher. The car uses a lot of non-standard parts. Therefore you get a lot of problems during the assemblage. The combination of Turbo body, 918 seats and wheels, extra carbon and magnesium parts is not so easy to handle. If you would get access to the parking slots for reworking you would see a lot of 991 GT3 RS. Every RS gets a detailed check, 991 every 10th car. Every RS will be fixed but not every 991. This reworking process is very expensive.

Thanks Aldo,good news for us,the RS seems really a special car this time!

Fingers crossed!

On the other side we have lot of RS waiting for reworking  I hope that is not mine, yours or any car from RT member 

They are not waiting to go to the Exlcusive department?

997TT RS Tuning stage II(sold),2011 Cayenne Turbo(sold),waiting 991 GT3 RS

ALDO:

Christian,

I have to tell you that you are wrong regarding the extra cost of the GT3 RS. It is much much higher. The car uses a lot of non-standard parts. Therefore you get a lot of problems during the assemblage. The combination of Turbo body, 918 seats and wheels, extra carbon and magnesium parts is not so easy to handle. If you would get access to the parking slots for reworking you would see a lot of 991 GT3 RS. Every RS gets a detailed check, 991 every 10th car. Every RS will be fixed but not every 991. This reworking process is very expensive.

I was talking about parts cost, not (possible) cost due to issues after production, of which I haven't really heard to be honest. Yes, the car is special but not really special enough for a 50k EUR premium. 

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

Super Darius:

ALDO:

Super Darius:

ALDO:

 

Christian,

I have to tell you that you are wrong regarding the extra cost of the GT3 RS. It is much much higher. The car uses a lot of non-standard parts. Therefore you get a lot of problems during the assemblage. The combination of Turbo body, 918 seats and wheels, extra carbon and magnesium parts is not so easy to handle. If you would get access to the parking slots for reworking you would see a lot of 991 GT3 RS. Every RS gets a detailed check, 991 every 10th car. Every RS will be fixed but not every 991. This reworking process is very expensive.

Thanks Aldo,good news for us,the RS seems really a special car this time!

Fingers crossed!

On the other side we have lot of RS waiting for reworking  I hope that is not mine, yours or any car from RT member 

They are not waiting to go to the Exlcusive department?

NO  sorry 

AM
www.aldo-yachting.de