Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - 991.2 and future models - Page14

Jul 22, 2015 1:14:15 PM

davew (cincy): Veteran; Loc: Cincinnati, OH , United States; Posts: 1164, Gallery; Registered on: May 10, 2004; Reply to: Whoopsy

Re: 991.2 and future models

It must be something different than a standard supercharger, which Audi has in the current S4. I can imagine a couple possible hybrid systems between the two, but I'm not sure how any of them would be superior (in performance that is) to a basic super charger.

I will be interesting to learn more about this.

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Jul 22, 2015 1:19:44 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: davew (cincy)

Re: 991.2 and future models

davew (cincy):
It must be something different than a standard supercharger, which Audi has in the current S4.

Right - sounds more like electric supercharger that Audi has discussed but not yet implemented in a commercial product yet.

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/08/08/audi-electric-turbocharging-feature/

--

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

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Jul 22, 2015 1:23:27 PM

davew (cincy): Veteran; Loc: Cincinnati, OH , United States; Posts: 1164, Gallery; Registered on: May 10, 2004; Reply to: Grant

Re: 991.2 and future models

Turbos are like acoustic guitars??

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Jul 22, 2015 1:29:47 PM

Whoopsy: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Vancouver,BC , Canada; Posts: 16151, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 19, 2006; Reply to: Grant

Re: 991.2 and future models

Grant:
Whoopsy:
Technically, such a setup cannot be called a turbocharger since it is not driven by exhaust gas. It is a electric supercharger.

Unless there is a combination of regular and electric turbos - then it's dual-charged?

Like the F1 setup?

"electrically assisted turbocharger"

--

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Jul 22, 2015 1:39:38 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21148, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: Whoopsy

Re: 991.2 and future models

Sounds to me like the electric part is there to pre-spool the turbos so that there is less lag?

--

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

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Jul 22, 2015 1:42:34 PM

apias: Rennteam Pro; Loc: United States , United States; Posts: 2608, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 23, 2013; Reply to: davew (cincy)

Re: 991.2 and future models

Seems like the term 'engine' is becoming passé and it's time to start referring to it as a 'power unit'.

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Jul 22, 2015 1:43:04 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59581, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: WAY

Re: 991.2 and future models

WAY:
I vote we put Justin Beaver music for RC.

Actually, I listen to Justin Beaver (well, kind of...)

https://itunes.apple.com/de/album/where-are-u-now-justin-bieber/id971262235?i=971262282

("Where Are Ü Now").

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

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Jul 22, 2015 1:45:44 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59581, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: ALDO

Re: 991.2 and future models

ALDO:
RC:
reginos:
0=normal

S=sport

S+ sport plus

I any ideas?

Porsche SRB

O = Original

S = Sport

S+ = Sport Plus

I = Individual (you can adjust this setting in the new PCM system)

Christian, you are a true German! No space left of a joke

The same answer would have give us Schäuble

Smiley Sorry, I wanted to give a straight answer, didn't see your post before that. Smiley

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

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Jul 22, 2015 1:50:10 PM

CGX car nut: Rennteam Master; Loc: NWI , United States; Posts: 5175, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 17, 2011; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: 991.2 and future models

Carlos from Spain:
Sounds to me like the electric part is there to pre-spool the turbos so that there is less lag?

Yes, that is correct. The Audi system is said to compose two differently sized turbochargers. The first is a small turbocharger with electric assist to reduce lag, as this turbocharger "chokes" at a higher speed, a larger, more laggy turbocharger significantly increases boost. By sophisticated control, the two devices work in combination to seamlessly provide boost to maximize available torque across the rev range. If successful, this system could provide near maximum torque at idle speed, replicating the maximum torque of an electric motor at zero RPM, with the higher torque output further up the rev range of the normal ICE.

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Jul 22, 2015 1:59:58 PM

MKW: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Palo Alto and North Lake Tahoe , United States; Posts: 2491, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 22, 2002; Reply to: keithos27

Re: 991.2 and future models

keithos27:
That was one thing I actually preferred about the Cali T over the 991 cab... Not a fan of fabric roofs personally. To each their own. :)

the California T I drove felt every bit its near 4000 lbs on the winding road it was on ...like a fast BMW sedan with better turn-in but similar overboosted steering all modern cars are afflicted with , even most exotics .....you are rarely at WOT on a car like this, so most of the time it feels like driving a MBZ AMG SL putzing around ...its feels and is long,wide and deep as you feel like you are in a bathub .

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Jul 22, 2015 2:01:28 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59581, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: CGX car nut

Re: 991.2 and future models

Didn't I mention this electric system in an older post (which may have been lost after the data loss)?

I told you, the new engines won't disappoint, they feel powerful and linear and more than n/a engines than the Turbo/S engine (Porsche of course did that by purpose to differentiate the Carrera and Turbo/S models) but the sound will disappoint some people (not all people, some people apparently prefer a more subtle sound) and of course the engines will still show some lag under certain driving situations, they cannot completely deny the turbo technology used.

Overall, only those will be really disappointed with the new facelift who love a good engine/exhaust sound. All others will appreciate the new comfort (more torque at lower rev figures), the improved PCM system with some interesting individualization options and of course the chassis improvements incl. that goodie I mentioned a couple of days ago but apparently the cat is out of the bag already.

Make no mistake though: Porsche makes no bargains. angry

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

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Jul 22, 2015 2:07:57 PM

MKW: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Palo Alto and North Lake Tahoe , United States; Posts: 2491, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 22, 2002; Reply to: Roy J.

Re: 991.2 and future models

Roy J.:
reginos:

What is it??

It is an ugliesh umbilical way to incorporate a " manatinno " , but will also irritate guys who like to shuffle steer , esp at autocrosses

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Jul 22, 2015 2:08:21 PM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: CGX car nut

Re: 991.2 and future models

Carlos from Spain:
Sounds to me like the electric part is there to pre-spool the turbos so that there is less lag?

Yes, that is correct. The Audi system is said to compose two differently sized turbochargers. The first is a small turbocharger with electric assist to reduce lag, as this turbocharger "chokes" at a higher speed, a larger, more laggy turbocharger significantly increases boost. By sophisticated control, the two devices work in combination to seamlessly provide boost to maximize available torque across the rev range. If successful, this system could provide near maximum torque at idle speed, replicating the maximum torque of an electric motor at zero RPM, with the higher torque output further up the rev range of the normal ICE.

This is how Audi's system of electric and conventional turbochargers works

--

"Form follows function"

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Jul 22, 2015 2:09:11 PM

Lars997: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: South , Germany; Posts: 9448, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 8, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: 991.2 and future models

RC:
Didn't I mention this electric system in an older post (which may have been lost after the data loss)?

I told you, the new engines won't disappoint, they feel powerful and linear and more than n/a engines than the Turbo/S engine (Porsche of course did that by purpose to differentiate the Carrera and Turbo/S models) but the sound will disappoint some people (not all people, some people apparently prefer a more subtle sound) and of course the engines will still show some lag under certain driving situations, they cannot completely deny the turbo technology used.

Overall, only those will be really disappointed with the new facelift who love a good engine/exhaust sound. All others will appreciate the new comfort (more torque at lower rev figures), the improved PCM system with some interesting individualization options and of course the chassis improvements incl. that goodie I mentioned a couple of days ago but apparently the cat is out of the bag already.

Make no mistake though: Porsche makes no bargains.

Two thoughts:

First - Porsche has the longest experience in any thinkable way of using Turbo technology. They should be more advanced than any other brand and therefore being able to produce the most reliable, most effective and most efficient Turbo out there.

Therefore:

Second - I doubt that you don't have a Turbo feeling. A Turbo feels different. Is it in the AMG GT / F 488 or is it in the 991.T. Certainly it is way not that different as it used to be 10 years ago, but still - a Turbo is a Turbo and a NA feels like an NA. Even more dramatic is the sound. The Porsche always sounded better as NA engine, same btw for the AMG GT or Ferrari 488.

I expect the best of a possible Turbo usage from Porsche, but it still will sound and probably feel different than an NA.

Might it be faster - defiantly yes. It is the normal evolution!

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Jul 22, 2015 2:13:51 PM

CGX car nut: Rennteam Master; Loc: NWI , United States; Posts: 5175, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 17, 2011; Reply to: reginos

Re: 991.2 and future models

As described and with acknowledgement to RC for his earlier post on said subject.

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Jul 22, 2015 2:14:48 PM

MKW: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Palo Alto and North Lake Tahoe , United States; Posts: 2491, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 22, 2002; Reply to: reginos

Re: 991.2 and future models

reginos:
Gauss:
Individual

Throttle, PDK, PASM, PSM, ABS. Any other new parameters?

--

"Form follows function"

If it is, which I doubt , it is a 180 degree turn from their longstanding " my way or the highway " developed features paradigm for their sports cars

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Jul 22, 2015 2:18:11 PM

MKW: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Palo Alto and North Lake Tahoe , United States; Posts: 2491, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 22, 2002; Reply to: MKW

Re: 991.2 and future models

Now that the " new " rear lights are essentially naked, what is the change ..a slight chamfering of the lower inner corner ? a slight " brow " protrusion of the upper edge ? At least they kept the lovely sleek slender shape

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Jul 22, 2015 2:18:48 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59581, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: MKW

Re: 991.2 and future models

Actually, that individual setup was something I requested for a very long time and it was about time that it gets implemented. Technology evolves, so do customers, Porsche cannot ignore that.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

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Jul 22, 2015 2:20:46 PM

MKW: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Palo Alto and North Lake Tahoe , United States; Posts: 2491, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 22, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: 991.2 and future models

RC:
Actually, that individual setup was something I requested for a very long time and it was about time that it gets implemented. Technology evolves, so do customers, Porsche cannot ignore that.

if that's true, it is welcome news !

( remember first gen PSM where you could " switch it off " but you really couldn't , all the way ? )

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Jul 22, 2015 2:22:48 PM

Whoopsy: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Vancouver,BC , Canada; Posts: 16151, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 19, 2006; Reply to: MKW

Re: 991.2 and future models

MKW:
Roy J.:
reginos:

What is it??

It is an ugliesh umbilical way to incorporate a " manatinno " , but will also irritate guys who like to shuffle steer , esp at autocrosses

Well, it is the same wheel as the 918, and trust me, that 'wart' is not in the way.

--

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Jul 22, 2015 3:24:00 PM

sfo: Rennteam Pro; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 2093, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 17, 2011; Reply to: MKW

Re: 991.2 and future models

MKW:
Roy J.:
reginos:

What is it??

It is an ugliesh umbilical way to incorporate a " manatinno " , but will also irritate guys who like to shuffle steer , esp at autocrosses

I think it's well integrated.

Love the I option. About time.

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Jul 22, 2015 3:51:45 PM

Joost: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Dordrecht , Netherlands; Posts: 8054, Gallery; Registered on: May 3, 2004; Reply to: MKW

Re: 991.2 and future models

MKW:
Now that the " new " rear lights are essentially naked, what is the change ..a slight chamfering of the lower inner corner ? a slight " brow " protrusion of the upper edge ? At least they kept the lovely sleek slender shape

No, you haven't really seen the new rear lights yet, they have been covered with camo until now.
If you look closely, the camo is used to hide the fact that the rear light is the same principle as the Macan's:

--

Porsche, seperates LeMans from LeBoys

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Jul 22, 2015 3:57:36 PM

MKW: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Palo Alto and North Lake Tahoe , United States; Posts: 2491, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 22, 2002; Reply to: Joost

Re: 991.2 and future models

Joost:
MKW:
Now that the " new " rear lights are essentially naked, what is the change ..a slight chamfering of the lower inner corner ? a slight " brow " protrusion of the upper edge ? At least they kept the lovely o slender shape

No, you haven't really seen the new rear lights yet, they have been covered with camo until now.
If you look closely, the camo is used to hide the fact that the rear light is the same principle as the Macan's:

got it ...and from this screen shot below it looks like the new 911 light's two horizontal indentations will not be as deep or squared up as on the Macan's , with resultant better aero since it is much more in the air stream vs the Macan.

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Jul 22, 2015 3:58:46 PM

Whoopsy: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Vancouver,BC , Canada; Posts: 16151, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 19, 2006; Reply to: Joost

Re: 991.2 and future models

Porsche has said before that future cars will have styling cues from the 918. The quad LED headlights, the steering wheel and the 3D effect tail lights.

--

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Jul 22, 2015 3:59:54 PM

Joost: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Dordrecht , Netherlands; Posts: 8054, Gallery; Registered on: May 3, 2004; Reply to: MKW

Re: 991.2 and future models

Haha, I was creating the same screenshots!:
In the first you see the tape and the outline of the edge.
In the second, you see that in fact the entire cluster is covered by the tape (notice the similar polkadots pattern?) so the indentations might be way deeper than you can see now.

--

Porsche, seperates LeMans from LeBoys

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Jul 22, 2015 4:02:29 PM

rulesdontapply: Pilot; Loc: Kuwait , Kuwait; Posts: 462, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 22, 2010; Reply to: Whoopsy

Re: 991.2 and future models

I'm pretty sure we'll see 3D effects in the facelifted lights rather than full 3D lights like the ones on the Macan. Knowing Porsche, the full 3D units will show up with the next generation because, come on, how many variations of 3D lights can you make?

Look at the Cayenne - a red light bar with four brake lights in there and upon closer inspection, you can see the elements "floating" in there with the light housing being curved enough to show their 3-dimensionality without being explicitly 3D. Based on the braking patterns on the 991.2/981.2/next Panamera mules, this graphic will be available across the range.

A reveal can't be too far off now with Porsche previewing the black cars in South Africa. How soon do the covers come off?

rulesdontapply

--

2008 Porsche Boxster S PDE2
2012 Porsche Cayenne S [gone but never forgotten]

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Jul 22, 2015 4:03:26 PM

MKW: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Palo Alto and North Lake Tahoe , United States; Posts: 2491, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 22, 2002; Reply to: Joost

Re: 991.2 and future models

looks like center rib of the 911 light will be thinner and angled in the sleek sports car vs chunky and square in the chunky and square Macan !

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Jul 22, 2015 5:16:25 PM

keithos27: Pilot; Loc: Atlanta, GA , United States; Posts: 311, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2012; Reply to: RC

Re: 991.2 and future models

RC:
WAY:
I vote we put Justin Beaver music for RC.

Actually, I listen to Justin Beaver (well, kind of...)

https://itunes.apple.com/de/album/where-are-u-now-justin-bieber/id971262235?i=971262282

("Where Are Ü Now").
y

This is the only song I listen to by him as well... but I think that's because we are both into EDM (not Justin). :)

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Jul 22, 2015 8:20:16 PM

artur777: Senior; Loc: Europe , Russia; Posts: 774, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 8, 2008; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: 991.2 and future models

KresoF1:
ALDO:
KresoF1:
Grant:
Aha - so, you'll only keep GTS for a few months? Do you have to pay VAT twice?

No, car will go to my business partner here in early 2016 when I get 991.2

He wants 991.2 GTS but, he is not willing to pay price of new one. Therefor I ordered the car in his desired color and low specs (I just added -20mm). I will drive it until 991.2 arrives. It will be also a good thing to compare both generations directly.

In Croatia you can buy the car for your business but if driving privately you (your company) can not collect the VAT back. So it is the same if you would buy it as a private person.

When selling a used car, you or the buyer have to pay 5% special tax. So you have to be a Greek to buy a car just for a few month or you love your country so much

What you wrote is correct to some extent. I am working and living here long enough to know what is possible and what is legally acceptable. Car will be registrated on company where my partner and I share ownership (it is so called "closed" d.d.). I will use the car for about 6 months and then he will use the car. Simple as that. My bookkeeper knows her stuff pretty well since she worked for over 15 years in Ministry of Finance. All is about carefull planning and working by the law (you needto know local laws and their interpretation by local authorities).

Dear KresoF1, will 991.2 Turbo S be faster than new R8 v10 Plus?

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Jul 22, 2015 8:44:54 PM

KresoF1: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Croatia , Croatia; Posts: 7856, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 3, 2005; Reply to: artur777

Re: 991.2 and future models

In acceleration from 0-100km/h, 0-200km/h and 0-300km/h yes. In top speed no.

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