Crown

Blufoxx posted great question about Huayra. I am very interested what we could hear from Futch. 

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918 is more elegant. Laf is more like a missile, very (too?) aggressive. 

Haven't driven the Huayra no but I'm sure it's awesome too.

I'm still puzzled by this high rev power delivery issue, it doesn't make sense and it's contrary to everything I've read or watched about the car.

Does someone know if in Race mode, there are instances where the engine feeds the batteries and hence, don't deliver full power? I didn't try Hot lap unfortunately. 

It really felt like after 7500rpm, the surge wasn't there anymore.

Futch, I doubt you drove the final version, sounds like the earlier prototypes that hasn't been fully updated. I recently drove a finished 918 and my impression was quite to opposite of yours, even different than what we test drove at Weissach a few months ago.

What do you think of the Huayra design/styling ?

Awesome write up! priceless comparison between the Laf and 918 

blufoxx:

Futch, I doubt you drove the final version, sounds like the earlier prototypes that hasn't been fully updated. I recently drove a finished 918 and my impression was quite to opposite of yours, even different than what we test drove at Weissach a few months ago.

 

What do you think of the Huayra design/styling ?

It definitely was a production car. 

I just found this on the web, very good article from motortrend that seems to confirm what I have experienced regarding power delivery.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/exotic/1405_2015_porsche_918_spyder_first_test/lap_times.html

Huayra styling I don't like. I much prefer the Zonda. Its noise too! And I don't like Pagani's interior. 

blufoxx:

Futch, I doubt you drove the final version, sounds like the earlier prototypes that hasn't been fully updated. I recently drove a finished 918 and my impression was quite to opposite of yours, even different than what we test drove at Weissach a few months ago.

This sounds unrealistic. How can they sell someone a €1 miilion car, if the latest version is not available to drive 

I have also noted Futch's almost total disappointment with the Turbo models. Porsche must up their game in that elevated price range, as RC has been saying all along.

--

"Form follows function"

Futch's, awesome and extremely insightful write-up as always! 

Futch:

918 is more elegant. Laf is more like a missile, very (too?) aggressive. 

Haven't driven the Huayra no but I'm sure it's awesome too.

I'm still puzzled by this high rev power delivery issue, it doesn't make sense and it's contrary to everything I've read or watched about the car.

Does someone know if in Race mode, there are instances where the engine feeds the batteries and hence, don't deliver full power? I didn't try Hot lap unfortunately. 

It really felt like after 7500rpm, the surge wasn't there anymore.

Yes it does. Only Hot Lap mode doesn't allow the engine to feed the battery. In Race mode or any other mode, the ECU determine when to feed. Same with the P1 where it has to feed the battery. I believe LaLa works the same way also.

As for the brakes, we touched on this before, in the 918 the front axle is only connected to the e-motor, since the front brakes worked the most in braking, the difference in feel is obvious. In the Lala the front axle is conventional so the brake feel is conventional. The 918 has regen braking on both axles while the P1 and Lala only do it with the rear axle, where change in brake feel is a lot less noticeable.

Futch:

918 is more elegant. Laf is more like a missile, very (too?) aggressive. 

Haven't driven the Huayra no but I'm sure it's awesome too.

I'm still puzzled by this high rev power delivery issue, it doesn't make sense and it's contrary to everything I've read or watched about the car.

Does someone know if in Race mode, there are instances where the engine feeds the batteries and hence, don't deliver full power? I didn't try Hot lap unfortunately. 

It really felt like after 7500rpm, the surge wasn't there anymore.

Futch, many thanks for the great detailed feedback from your Porsche 918 drive! 

It's great to get feedback from someone that experience driving both LaFerrari and the Porsche 918...

When you get the call from Porsche asking for feedback, perhaps if you mention your feedback on the engine power they will confirm whether they had restricted the performance above 7500rpm? 

Porsche should also offer you a follow up drive in the 918 (maybe at Silverstone GP? ) with the "Hot Lap" function available and 100% full power delivery... 

One interesting question with these hybrid hypercars is how they would perform over a number of laps? For example, would LaFerrari or 918 or P1 be quicker overall for a 6-hour GT endurance race? 

When Porsche did their 6:57 record run, Walliser have stated that the 918 is about 4-5 seconds slower in Race mode at the Ring. Since the car can't run out of battery in Race mode, that implies the 918 can do 7:01-7:02 laps at the Ring all day long in Race mode, limited only by the gas tank capacity.

As I am flying off to Stuttgart today, maybe I can ask Walliser again if I run into him. 

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Hello guys, been reading for years here and rennlist but have not much time and experience and knowledge to share and  write here, but i just saw the first 918 at dealer last week ready to pick up, amazing car to see it in person

Ziggy:

Futch's, awesome and extremely insightful write-up as always! 

+1 very detailed on the things that actually matter. thanks so much for sharing the comparison from an actual owner of a LaF.

Whoopsy:

Futch:

918 is more elegant. Laf is more like a missile, very (too?) aggressive. 

Haven't driven the Huayra no but I'm sure it's awesome too.

I'm still puzzled by this high rev power delivery issue, it doesn't make sense and it's contrary to everything I've read or watched about the car.

Does someone know if in Race mode, there are instances where the engine feeds the batteries and hence, don't deliver full power? I didn't try Hot lap unfortunately. 

It really felt like after 7500rpm, the surge wasn't there anymore.

 

 

Yes it does. Only Hot Lap mode doesn't allow the engine to feed the battery. In Race mode or any other mode, the ECU determine when to feed. Same with the P1 where it has to feed the battery. I believe LaLa works the same way also.

As for the brakes, we touched on this before, in the 918 the front axle is only connected to the e-motor, since the front brakes worked the most in braking, the difference in feel is obvious. In the Lala the front axle is conventional so the brake feel is conventional. The 918 has regen braking on both axles while the P1 and Lala only do it with the rear axle, where change in brake feel is a lot less noticeable.

 

Ok thanks Whoopsy. 
This makes sense because they were running groups of three and I was the third one to jump in the car, so by then, you'd think the batteries were not 100% and actually by the end of my run, I could see that my batteries were in the low 10%. 

In Lala it is similar but the system is in my opinion more oriented towards performance in the sense that you can indeed deplete the batterie completely but instead of losing top end power from the V12, you lose low end torque from the batteries.

There is a mode in Lala called LONG RUN if you want to track it, say for a few hours and I used it at Silverstone. You get less low end torque but the KERS is always ON and you always get the 800 hp from the V12.

Re the brakes ok I get it, I understand but the feel is not nice, you would get used to it but it's very unnatural. In Lala the feel of the pedal is not nice at the beginning of the braking, it's very hard and then it feels natural. So for hard braking you feel more what the car is doing and you have better control of your trail braking.

Boxster Coupe GTS:

Futch:

918 is more elegant. Laf is more like a missile, very (too?) aggressive. 

Haven't driven the Huayra no but I'm sure it's awesome too.

I'm still puzzled by this high rev power delivery issue, it doesn't make sense and it's contrary to everything I've read or watched about the car.

Does someone know if in Race mode, there are instances where the engine feeds the batteries and hence, don't deliver full power? I didn't try Hot lap unfortunately. 

It really felt like after 7500rpm, the surge wasn't there anymore.

Futch, many thanks for the great detailed feedback from your Porsche 918 drive! 

It's great to get feedback from someone that experience driving both LaFerrari and the Porsche 918...

When you get the call from Porsche asking for feedback, perhaps if you mention your feedback on the engine power they will confirm whether they had restricted the performance above 7500rpm? 

Porsche should also offer you a follow up drive in the 918 (maybe at Silverstone GP? ) with the "Hot Lap" function available and 100% full power delivery... 

One interesting question with these hybrid hypercars is how they would perform over a number of laps? For example, would LaFerrari or 918 or P1 be quicker overall for a 6-hour GT endurance race? 

 

Thanks Boxster!

In a real race they would all be fried after 5 laps, those cars are way too heavy for brakes and tyres to last more than 15 minutes in a row...

I couldn't do a lap in hot lap, maybe because the batteries were not at 100% I don't know...

I didn't dare mention the issue of  power. Can you imagine what a cock I would look like! Yes great car gents but there's no power passed 7500 rpm...

Boyko23:
Great write up, Futch.
You deffinetly have to try in hot lap mode. This is the mode which has different map and give all the power all the time.
Also, only in hot lap you have additional pressure point-effect similar to AT kick down function, which give you the possibility to use/modulate e boost through the whole rev range.
Simply said: in race mode the e power works like turbo boost, while in hot lap more like a linear nitro boost.
Final spec 918 has to be a completely different car in hot lap mode and faster then P1 for sure. Dont know about Lala...

Ok I get it, makes sense. So Hot Lap is like a qualification lap, you get the full 887hp but it doesn't last very long then.

It's such a complete package this car. Seriously it's two cars in one. Not quite a GT because it's actually a lot stiffer than I thought but you get a very nice open sports car with E mode should you want to and then you press one button and you get one monster of a car. 

reginos:

blufoxx:

Futch, I doubt you drove the final version, sounds like the earlier prototypes that hasn't been fully updated. I recently drove a finished 918 and my impression was quite to opposite of yours, even different than what we test drove at Weissach a few months ago.

This sounds unrealistic. How can they sell someone a €1 miilion car, if the latest version is not available to drive 

I have also noted Futch's almost total disappointment with the Turbo models. Porsche must up their game in that elevated price range, as RC has been saying all along.

--

"Form follows function"

Disappointed yes but only because these cars are not really made for the track, I felt. They should have brought GT3 for sure! 

The Turbo remains an amazing GT. For me that and the F12, amazing GT cars, not track cars but still fun for a couple of laps.

Futch:

Ok thanks Whoopsy. 

This makes sense because they were running groups of three and I was the third one to jump in the car, so by then, you'd think the batteries were not 100% and actually by the end of my run, I could see that my batteries were in the low 10%. 

In Lala it is similar but the system is in my opinion more oriented towards performance in the sense that you can indeed deplete the batterie completely but instead of losing top end power from the V12, you lose low end torque from the batteries.

There is a mode in Lala called LONG RUN if you want to track it, say for a few hours and I used it at Silverstone. You get less low end torque but the KERS is always ON and you always get the 800 hp from the V12.

Re the brakes ok I get it, I understand but the feel is not nice, you would get used to it but it's very unnatural. In Lala the feel of the pedal is not nice at the beginning of the braking, it's very hard and then it feels natural. So for hard braking you feel more what the car is doing and you have better control of your trail braking.

 

Seriously not fair to compare a 6+ litre V12 vs a 4.6 litre V8 tuned for high end power delivery 

Also make sense now that you disclosed what happened to the car before you jump in haha.

The 918 engine lacks low end torque, without the e-motors help it won't move. 

Since I have a FF at home, I know how powerful those Italian V12 can be on it's own. The extra help from the e-motor low down is nice, but I guess it doesn't really need it. 

I guess LONG RUN make sense in the Lala, Ferrari preserves the top end rush and since the car doesn't stay at those revs long it extends the battery run time greatly.

918 relies on electricity a lot more than the Lala, so battery power is essential to it's performance. Especially down low in the rev range where the effect of the e-motor is felt the greatest. 

This is kinda silly question, but I am curious to hear from Futch is he satisfied with LaLa fuel consumption 

We all know that 918 have some insane figures in that department 

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Whoopsy:

Futch:

Ok thanks Whoopsy. 

This makes sense because they were running groups of three and I was the third one to jump in the car, so by then, you'd think the batteries were not 100% and actually by the end of my run, I could see that my batteries were in the low 10%. 

In Lala it is similar but the system is in my opinion more oriented towards performance in the sense that you can indeed deplete the batterie completely but instead of losing top end power from the V12, you lose low end torque from the batteries.

There is a mode in Lala called LONG RUN if you want to track it, say for a few hours and I used it at Silverstone. You get less low end torque but the KERS is always ON and you always get the 800 hp from the V12.

Re the brakes ok I get it, I understand but the feel is not nice, you would get used to it but it's very unnatural. In Lala the feel of the pedal is not nice at the beginning of the braking, it's very hard and then it feels natural. So for hard braking you feel more what the car is doing and you have better control of your trail braking.

 

 

Seriously not fair to compare a 6+ litre V12 vs a 4.6 litre V8 tuned for high end power delivery 

Also make sense now that you disclosed what happened to the car before you jump in haha.

The 918 engine lacks low end torque, without the e-motors help it won't move. 

Since I have a FF at home, I know how powerful those Italian V12 can be on it's own. The extra help from the e-motor low down is nice, but I guess it doesn't really need it. 

I guess LONG RUN make sense in the Lala, Ferrari preserves the top end rush and since the car doesn't stay at those revs long it extends the battery run time greatly.

918 relies on electricity a lot more than the Lala, so battery power is essential to it's performance. Especially down low in the rev range where the effect of the e-motor is felt the greatest. 

 

Yes it makes perfect sense indeed.

Milanno:

This is kinda silly question, but I am curious to hear from Futch is he satisfied with LaLa fuel consumption 

We all know that 918 have some insane figures in that department 

On the motorway driving relax around 150km/h, the car will do 500km.

On the track, less than 200km.

The fuel tank is 86L.

Honestly it's not too bad. Unlike the 918, I don't think Ferrari bothered with fuel consumption. The 918 is much more versatile. The Porsche tech guy told me today that real world consumption with a light foot in hybrid mode is around 6L/100km. This is just unbelievable!

Francois, thanks for taking the time to post your impressions.For those of us who probably will never have an opportunity to drive these fine cars your write up comparing both is priceless.

BTW, I would have loved to get your impressions of the 991GT3. Have you had an opportunity to drive one?

nberry:

Francois, thanks for taking the time to post your impressions.For those of us who probably will never have an opportunity to drive these fine cars your write up comparing both is priceless.

BTW, I would have loved to get your impressions of the 991GT3. Have you had an opportunity to drive one?

Not yet but I can't wait. Everybody says it's amazing! The EPA steering was disappointing in the turbo but it's more weighty and somehow better in the 918. I've also been told that the engine is more linear than previous GT3 but still a screamer and the chassis is sublime. 

I uploaded the same picture when I was at pfaff, didnt noticed yopu uploaded first,sorry,my bad

I have the feeling that Porsche still gives cars for test drive, which aren't final spec. Which is a big mistake, imo.

Last month a very credible source and future owner mentioned, that Porsche has only two full power cars at that time. Yesterday one of them was in England 100% sure. All these "issues" Futch mentions are in line with the pre production cars (around 600-700hp). 

Most strange thing are the brakes - for example Auto Zeitung didn't have any complains and measured 29,4 m. for 100 - 0 km/h! Absolute record in their history of testing... 

Oh but there is absolutely nothing wrong with stopping power, it's actually amazing. 

Its the feeling you get through the pedal that is weird. Very little information goes though the foot. You have to trust the car, like the Porsche guy told me, it's weird at first but you get used to it, he said. 

For me, I could get used to it of course, but it's a shame since you interact with your car through only three channels if you think about it, the steering wheel, the seat and the pedals. Electric steering and regen brakes rob some of that feeling no doubt. I'm too used to analog cars, it's just of matter of calibration and getting used to it. 

But stopping power wise it's up there with Lala easy, for what it's worth there's probably more initial bite too. Porsches have always been at the top of their game when it comes to braking. 

PS: I can relate to EVO mag when they write that their best driver car ever is the GT3 RS 3.8. For me, it's the 4.0. It's not the fastest but the car litterally talks to you. And we come down to the three channels. Best steering, best brakes and best seat (the recaro bucket that was first introduced in the Carrera GT). The GT comes close but thanks to the rear weight bias of the 911 you feel more what the chassis is doing. The 911 is more useable too.

I'm just an old nostalgic fart condemn to drive a 997 for the rest of life. 

Same here - had a MP4 and Gallardo Superleggera this year and in Terms of pure Fun I always come back to the RS - despite the "lack of power"

Thank you for this masterpiece review!

The comparison with lala is the most interisting part.

Some regrets about not purchasing the 918 ?

JEANTET:

Thank you for this masterpiece review!

The comparison with lala is the most interisting part.

Some regrets about not purchasing the 918 ?

I don't think so no. Plus they're still some available so there's still time. After my testdrive yesterday, I would use the car more as a road car but it felt really stiff on the road.

It's freakishly awesome though. The upright seating position would be tiresome too, coming from me who loves bucket seats that's weird but yesterday night I sat in my 4.0 straight away to compare and they are more tilted.

And there's the price and future value. Too much of an unknown and at this level if the car depreciates 20% in one year, that's 991 GT3 money gone, just like that! Too risky for me. Laferrari is far from perfect but I think it will hold its value better and that was a big decision maker for me.

Maybe second hand in a few years.

Futch:

On the motorway driving relax around 150km/h, the car will do 500km.

I am quite surprised with results considering LaLa have insane V12. 

P.S. Futch, would you consider buying low-miles used 918 if price drops dramatically? Maybe you could use it as daily-driver considering consumption that is better than your sedan/suv you are using every day 

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