Crown

Board: Porsche - 911 - 991 - Turbo Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread


    991 Turbo S vs. 997 Turbo S Fun Facts

    This may be interesting to some of you, some 991 Turbo S vs. 997 Turbo S (previous model) fun facts. I apologize for sometimes not using the right technical term, I translated it from German. Enjoy.

    • 4% less performance/weight ratio (2,87 kg/hp vs. 2,99 kg/hp)
    • 123 kg more downforce at 300 kph in Performance Mode (9 kg in Speed mode, same as 997 Turbo S)
    • 28 mm wider in the rear than 997 Turbo S
    • 200 rpm higher rev limiter (7200 rpm instead of 7000 rpm)
    • Completely newly developed exhaust manifold, conrods, pistons and adjusted VTG chargers.
    • Middle cooler in the front is a new development with a higher cooling capacity. The cooling fans have an improved power of 400 W (vs. 280 W in the 997)
    • Turbo S Airblades improve cooling to the side coolers, they are also standard on the regular Turbo in regions with very hot climate.
    • Intercoolers similar to 997 models but due to the new side vents and air outlets in the lower rear bumper, air flow has been substantially improved.
    • Optional round sport pipes for the exhaust system are made of titanium and are polished.
    • 991 Turbo S sounds sportier at idle than 991 Turbo (different sound symposer programming, VTG blade "opens", later ignition timing), in Sport and Sport Plus mode, the idle rpm figure is raised from 680 to 800 rpm (both Turbo S and Turbo)
    • Sound symposer does not create artificial sound, it transmits the "natural" sound of the engine from the engine bay into the interior. Unlike in the Carrera models (2 chamber sound symposer), the Turbo/S sound symposer has 4 chambers. 
    • PDK has been improved substantially, incl. an integrated rear axle differential lock and a thermodynamic integration into the cooling system of the car. Especially the automatic function of the PDK has been highly improved but also shifting speed and comfort.
    • Electrohydraulic operated PTM clutch for front axle allows 10% more power and at the same time a much faster and more precise reaction. This improves driving dynamics and traction. For even better durability at extreme stress, a water cooling system has been added, which is integrated into the engine's cooling system, incl. a separate electric water pump and a separate oil/water heat exchanger.
    • Front axle tread has been increased by 48 mm and 33 mm on the rear axle.
    • Rear axle steering switches to a more dynamic setup in Sport Plus mode.
    • 10% more direct steering than on 997.
    • 3. Generation PCCB (997 uses 2. generation PCCB) with calipers made of aluminum (997: stainless steel), which results in a further weight reduction and more ceramic compound in the discs, resulting in a much better durability under high stress to avoid excessive wear on the track like on the "old" generation.
    • PCCB front discs 410 mm (997: 380 mm) and rear discs 390 mm (997: 350 mm).
    • Optional Sport Classic rims not offered in Japan.
    • Sport Plus mode specifically "tuned" for race track.
    • Front fenders are made of aluminum.
    • 10 l more luggage room (front)
    • The rear wing adapts it's angle to open or closed sun roof.
    • At speeds over 270 kph, you cannot operate the PAA (Porsche Active Aerodynamics) system.
    • In Performance mode, front axle downforce is 44 kg (997: 18 kg drag) and rear axle downforce is 88 kg (997: 27 kg)
    • Battery capacity has increased to 95 Ah (997: 70 Ah)
    • Engine control unit is Siemens SDI 9 (997: SDI 3.1)
    • 991 Turbo S has different camber setting (-35' +/- 15') than 991 Turbo (-50' +/-15').
    • 991 Turbo S turning circle is 0.3 meters shorter at 10.6 m (997: 10.9 m)
    • 991 Turbo S uses ABS 9.0 (997: ABS 8.0)
    • 991 Turbo S has 1 mm more ground clearance than 997 model.
    • Angle of slope is 10.3° (997: 7,8°), huge difference.
    • Frontal area is 2,07 qm (997: 2,05 qm).

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: 991 Turbo S vs. 997 Turbo S Fun Facts

    Very interesting. Thank you.


    Re: 991 Turbo S vs. 997 Turbo S Fun Facts

    very interesting!


    Re: 991 Turbo S vs. 997 Turbo S Fun Facts

    Thank you RC really interesting.

    Would love to read this kind of fun facts about the 991GT3 too smiley


    --

    - HS (Belgium)  -  '14 Porsche 991 GT3 (oct build) - '06 BMW 335I Coupe  


    Re: 991 Turbo S vs. 997 Turbo S Fun Facts

    The big price difference to 997.2 is there for a reason Smiley

    J.Seven


    Re: 991 Turbo S vs. 997 Turbo S Fun Facts

    Thanks for the Info.  if there is any offical data on the engine parts, it would be interesting to know what changes they done to get that extra 30hp on this DFI.  I would assume they had done most of their work on their "upgrade" through heat treatment and efficiency improving....  I am sure they can push more power if they want easily, but they have their hands tie down with two major issue for them....


    Re: 991 Turbo S vs. 997 Turbo S Fun Facts

    huangester:

    Thanks for the Info.  if there is any offical data on the engine parts, it would be interesting to know what changes they done to get that extra 30hp on this DFI.  I would assume they had done most of their work on their "upgrade" through heat treatment and efficiency improving....  I am sure they can push more power if they want easily, but they have their hands tie down with two major issue for them....

    The new engine is basically the old one with completely new conrods, pistons and exhaust manifolds. The VTG chargers have been modified but they are basically similar to the old 997 models.

    Basically the old engine doesn't mean that they took the old engine and just added new conrods, pistons, etc. to it. In reality, both engines, new and old, don't share much parts, so the new engine is new but like mentioned before, based on the old one. It is not a completely new development like the DI engine was vs. the older Mezger engine (997.2 Turbo vs. 997.1 Turbo).

    The additional 20 hp in power in the new 991 Turbo are achieved with a similar turbo boost pressure of around 1.0 bar but Porsche improved the efficiency factor of the engine with higher internal combustion pressures and a new software mapping adjustment of the engine valve timing and ignition angle. Overall, the new thermodynamical setup not only provides better fuel efficiency and emissions but also power. Therefore, the cooling system has been improved a lot.

    The maximum boost pressure of the 991 Turbo S is 1.2 bar, even with overboost but in the lower and mid rev range, the overboost adds aprox. 0.15 bar boost pressure for around 20 seconds. Meaning: The maximum power of the car doesn't rise but the specific power levels in the lower and mid rev range do, not to mention the torque levels, incl. the maximum torque level.

    Many wonder why Porsche would bother to raise the rev limit of the 991 Turbo S to 7200 (from 7000) rpm but those 200 rpm make a huge impact after shifting because the car enters it's optimum rev range for the next gear, providing a higher torque too in that moment. So while the 200 rpm difference seem ridiculously low, they have a huge impact on overall performance, more than the 40 hp difference would make believe.

    The VTG chargers in the new 991 Turbo/Turbo S have new compressors to improve boost pressure efficiency and reaction time.

    What has also been heavily modified is the whole exhaust system, incl. airbox (air intake chamber) and manifolds

    Sorry, this is all I have. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: 991 Turbo S vs. 997 Turbo S Fun Facts

    991 GT3:

    Thank you RC really interesting.

    Would love to read this kind of fun facts about the 991GT3 too smiley

    You just had to ask . I'll post it right now on the GT3 thread Smiley


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: 991 Turbo S vs. 997 Turbo S Fun Facts

    impressive but one thing was forgotten at the end : at least +40% more expensive now indecision


    Re: 991 Turbo S vs. 997 Turbo S Fun Facts

    BjoernB:

    impressive but one thing was forgotten at the end : at least +40% more expensive now indecision

    Not everywehere ;)

    i know for example that in Holland the Turbo got 10% cheaper because of the lower CO2. It went from €200k to €180k. Unfortunately, this is a rare exception Smiley


    --

    Suzy

     


    Re: 991 Turbo S vs. 997 Turbo S Fun Facts

    RC:

     

    • Middle cooler in the front is a new development with a higher cooling capacity. The cooling fans have an improved power of 400 W (vs. 280 W in the 997)
    • Turbo S Airblades improve cooling to the side coolers, they are also standard on the regular Turbo in )

     

    Great stuff, thanks for sharing, the downforce numbers are very impressive.

    I am interested in the new improved  "thermal management" which has been discussed before and now this puts some meat on the bones. The central radiator is an obvious one (the old 997 one was rubbish), the air flow management coming out of the the intercooler and exiting the rear bumper is classic Porsche making good use of their wind tunnel.

    This "Turbo S Airblades"  is one I don't understand and sounds interesting, does anyone have an explanation and/or pics of what this is Smiley 


    --



     

    3.9  GT2 2011 make over


    Re: 991 Turbo S vs. 997 Turbo S Fun Facts

    Thank you RC for sharing. it Was very interesting to read.


    Re: 991 Turbo S vs. 997 Turbo S Fun Facts

    Gnil:
    991 GT3:

    Thank you RC really interesting.

    Would love to read this kind of fun facts about the 991GT3 too smiley

    You just had to ask . I'll post it right now on the GT3 thread Smiley

    Thanks again! Smiley


    --

    - HS (Belgium)  -  '14 Porsche 991 GT3 (oct build) - '06 BMW 335I Coupe  


    Re: 991 Turbo S vs. 997 Turbo S Fun Facts

    SuzyF:
    BjoernB:

    impressive but one thing was forgotten at the end : at least +40% more expensive now indecision

    Not everywehere ;)

    i know for example that in Holland the Turbo got 10% cheaper because of the lower CO2. It went from €200k to €180k. Unfortunately, this is a rare exception Smiley

    This is only possible because the price was way too high before.

    Cars are ridiculously expensive in the Netherlands. I think you can buy almost  two Turbo's in the US for the price of one in the Netherlands.  Smiley

    Speaking of 'fun facts'. This makes me wonder. I would like to see a list of comparison of the prices of the cars: Where in the world is the Turbo (S) the most expensive? Where is it the least expensive?  Smiley

     


    --

    - HS (Belgium)  -  '14 Porsche 991 GT3 (oct build) - '06 BMW 335I Coupe  


    Re: 991 Turbo S vs. 997 Turbo S Fun Facts

    991 GT3:
    SuzyF:
    BjoernB:

    impressive but one thing was forgotten at the end : at least +40% more expensive now indecision

    Not everywehere ;)

    i know for example that in Holland the Turbo got 10% cheaper because of the lower CO2. It went from €200k to €180k. Unfortunately, this is a rare exception Smiley

    This is only possible because the price was way too high before.

    Cars are ridiculously expensive in the Netherlands. I think you can buy almost  two Turbo's in the US for the price of one in the Netherlands.  Smiley

    Speaking of 'fun facts'. This makes me wonder. I would like to see a list of comparison of the prices of the cars: Where in the world is the Turbo (S) the most expensive? Where is it the least expensive?  Smiley

     

    The car tax-system (BPM) in the Netherlands is based on the CO2. The previous Turbo got a very high CO2 penalty, the 991 doesn't get a high penalty because of the much lower CO2.  On top of that comes af course still VAT. 991 Turbo S baseprice is €220k in the Netherlands, 991 Turbo is €180k

    Another rediculous example is the 918 and the panamera e-hybrid... Those are tax-free (not VAT-free) in the Netherlands, because they are plug-in hybrids. and when you buy or lease them on your business you don't have to pay for private use because of that. In comparison... On a Panamera S, 25% of selling price is added to your tax-income for private use. A rediculous system.

    i don't know where the cars are most expensive (Turkey? Brazil?), but I know for sure that the U.S. market has the cheapest prices.

     

     


    --

    Suzy

     


    Re: 991 Turbo S vs. 997 Turbo S Fun Facts

    RC:

    This may be interesting to some of you, some 991 Turbo S vs. 997 Turbo S (previous model) fun facts. I apologize for sometimes not using the right technical term, I translated it from German. Enjoy.

    • In Performance mode, front axle downforce is 44 kg (997: 18 kg drag) and rear axle downforce is 88 kg (997: 27 kg)

    Very interesting!

    Would turning off (PAA) help to achieve quicker times up to 300kph ? or does it activate/extend according to your sport/sport plus setting ?


    Re: 991 Turbo S vs. 997 Turbo S Fun Facts

    SuzyF:
     

    i don't know where the cars are most expensive (Turkey? Brazil?), but I know for sure that the U.S. market has the cheapest prices.

     

     

    911 Turbo S seems to be 330 k€ in Finland. Turbo S Cab 355 k€. CO2-based etc. bullhonkey.


    Re: 991 Turbo S vs. 997 Turbo S Fun Facts

    BjoernB:

    impressive but one thing was forgotten at the end : at least +40% more expensive now indecision

    Turbo S is 13% more expensive (Germany) and has much more options standard. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: 991 Turbo S vs. 997 Turbo S Fun Facts

    BiTurbo:
    RC:

    This may be interesting to some of you, some 991 Turbo S vs. 997 Turbo S (previous model) fun facts. I apologize for sometimes not using the right technical term, I translated it from German. Enjoy.

    • In Performance mode, front axle downforce is 44 kg (997: 18 kg drag) and rear axle downforce is 88 kg (997: 27 kg)

    Very interesting!

    Would turning off (PAA) help to achieve quicker times up to 300kph ? or does it activate/extend according to your sport/sport plus setting ?

    Yes, driving with Sport Plus with the front lip and rear wing fully deployed (Performance Mode) on the Autobahn isn't a good idea since it would actually slow you down due to the much higher downforce.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: 991 Turbo S vs. 997 Turbo S Fun Facts

    So normal 991 have steel fenders?


    Re: 991 Turbo S vs. 997 Turbo S Fun Facts

    E36325is:

    So normal 991 have steel fenders?

    The load-bearing unibody of the new 991 is primarily high-strength steel, the trunklid, door skins, roof panel and fenders are of aluminum.


    Re: 991 Turbo S vs. 997 Turbo S Fun Facts

    Here in Singapore, the on the road price for a turbo s with some options is €680,000.

    Smiley


    Re: 991 Turbo S vs. 997 Turbo S Fun Facts

    That's appalling! 1383063120254JC_OMG_sign.gif


    Re: 991 Turbo S vs. 997 Turbo S Fun Facts

    TTS991:

    Here in Singapore, the on the road price for a turbo s with some options is €680,000.

    Smiley

    Ouch, ouch and ouch...again. This is almost 918 territory over here. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: 991 Turbo S vs. 997 Turbo S Fun Facts

    RC:

    This may be interesting to some of you, some 991 Turbo S vs. 997 Turbo S (previous model) fun facts. I apologize for sometimes not using the right technical term, I translated it from German. Enjoy.

    • 4% less performance/weight ratio (2,87 kg/hp vs. 2,99 kg/hp)
    • 123 kg more downforce at 300 kph in Performance Mode (9 kg in Speed mode, same as 997 Turbo S)
    • 28 mm wider in the rear than 997 Turbo S
    • 200 rpm higher rev limiter (7200 rpm instead of 7000 rpm)
    • Completely newly developed exhaust manifold, conrods, pistons and adjusted VTG chargers.
    • Middle cooler in the front is a new development with a higher cooling capacity. The cooling fans have an improved power of 400 W (vs. 280 W in the 997)
    • Turbo S Airblades improve cooling to the side coolers, they are also standard on the regular Turbo in regions with very hot climate.
    • Intercoolers similar to 997 models but due to the new side vents and air outlets in the lower rear bumper, air flow has been substantially improved.
    • Optional round sport pipes for the exhaust system are made of titanium and are polished.
    • 991 Turbo S sounds sportier at idle than 991 Turbo (different sound symposer programming, VTG blade "opens", later ignition timing), in Sport and Sport Plus mode, the idle rpm figure is raised from 680 to 800 rpm (both Turbo S and Turbo)
    • Sound symposer does not create artificial sound, it transmits the "natural" sound of the engine from the engine bay into the interior. Unlike in the Carrera models (2 chamber sound symposer), the Turbo/S sound symposer has 4 chambers. 
    • PDK has been improved substantially, incl. an integrated rear axle differential lock and a thermodynamic integration into the cooling system of the car. Especially the automatic function of the PDK has been highly improved but also shifting speed and comfort.
    • Electrohydraulic operated PTM clutch for front axle allows 10% more power and at the same time a much faster and more precise reaction. This improves driving dynamics and traction. For even better durability at extreme stress, a water cooling system has been added, which is integrated into the engine's cooling system, incl. a separate electric water pump and a separate oil/water heat exchanger.
    • Front axle tread has been increased by 48 mm and 33 mm on the rear axle.
    • Rear axle steering switches to a more dynamic setup in Sport Plus mode.
    • 10% more direct steering than on 997.
    • 3. Generation PCCB (997 uses 2. generation PCCB) with calipers made of aluminum (997: stainless steel), which results in a further weight reduction and more ceramic compound in the discs, resulting in a much better durability under high stress to avoid excessive wear on the track like on the "old" generation.
    • PCCB front discs 410 mm (997: 380 mm) and rear discs 390 mm (997: 350 mm).
    • Optional Sport Classic rims not offered in Japan.
    • Sport Plus mode specifically "tuned" for race track.
    • Front fenders are made of aluminum.
    • 10 l more luggage room (front)
    • The rear wing adapts it's angle to open or closed sun roof.
    • At speeds over 270 kph, you cannot operate the PAA (Porsche Active Aerodynamics) system.
    • In Performance mode, front axle downforce is 44 kg (997: 18 kg drag) and rear axle downforce is 88 kg (997: 27 kg)
    • Battery capacity has increased to 95 Ah (997: 70 Ah)
    • Engine control unit is Siemens SDI 9 (997: SDI 3.1)
    • 991 Turbo S has different camber setting (-35' +/- 15') than 991 Turbo (-50' +/-15').
    • 991 Turbo S turning circle is 0.3 meters shorter at 10.6 m (997: 10.9 m)
    • 991 Turbo S uses ABS 9.0 (997: ABS 8.0)
    • 991 Turbo S has 1 mm more ground clearance than 997 model.
    • Angle of slope is 10.3° (997: 7,8°), huge difference.
    • Frontal area is 2,07 qm (997: 2,05 qm).

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

    Great info, thanks!

     


    --

    turbolite


    Re: 991 Turbo S vs. 997 Turbo S Fun Facts

    Interesting re Singapore but to put it into perspective TTS991, perhaps you could also share with the board personal income tax rates in Singapore, so that relativizes things somewhat!

     


     
    Edit

    Forum

    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II) 3/28/24 3:21 AM
    watt
    688126 1780
    Porsche Sticky Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos) 2/19/24 11:51 PM
    Wonderbar
    408523 564
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Cayman GT4 RS (2021) 5/12/23 12:11 PM
    W8MM
    255466 288
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022 3/12/24 8:28 AM
    DJM48
    234688 323
    Porsche Sticky The new Macan: the first all-electric SUV from Porsche 1/30/24 9:18 AM
    RCA
    65316 45
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Taycan 2024 Facelift 3/15/24 1:23 PM
    CGX car nut
    4632 50
    Porsche The moment I've been waiting for... 2/1/24 7:01 PM
    Pilot
     
     
     
     
     
    857424 1364
    Porsche 992 GT3 7/23/23 7:01 PM
    Grant
    773096 3868
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020) 4/6/23 7:43 AM
    crayphile
    447511 1276
    Porsche Welcome to the new Taycan Forum! 2/10/24 4:43 PM
    nberry
    378505 1526
    Porsche GT4RS 2/22/24 5:16 AM
    tso
    365228 1424
    Porsche Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design 7/3/23 12:30 PM
    Porker
    360477 797
    Others Tesla 2 the new thread 12/13/23 2:48 PM
    CGX car nut
    354339 2401
    Lambo Aventador and SV 3/30/23 1:59 PM
    CGX car nut
    278750 724
    Ferrari Ferrari 812 Superfast 4/21/23 8:09 AM
    the-missile
    275132 550
    Porsche Red Nipples 991.2 GT3 Touring on tour 3/14/24 8:55 PM
    blueflame
    272243 658
    Porsche Collected my 997 GTS today 10/19/23 7:06 PM
    CGX car nut
     
     
     
     
     
    248088 812
    Lambo Huracán EVO STO 7/30/23 6:59 PM
    mcdelaug
    224835 346
    Others Corvette C8 10/16/23 3:24 PM
    Enmanuel
    217774 488
    Lotus Lotus Emira 6/25/23 2:53 PM
    Enmanuel
    196361 101
    Others Gordon Murray - T.50 11/22/23 10:27 AM
    mcdelaug
    155144 387
    Porsche Back to basics - 996 GT3 RS 6/11/23 5:13 PM
    CGX car nut
    126728 144
    Ferrari [2022] Ferrari Purosangue (SUV) 4/15/23 5:20 AM
    watt
    120325 141
    BMW M 2024 BMW M3 CS Official Now 12/29/23 9:04 AM
    RCA
    105826 303
    Motor Sp. 2023 Formula One 12/19/23 5:38 AM
    WhoopsyM
    102446 685
    Others Valkyrie final design? 4/28/23 2:45 AM
    Rossi
    97622 219
    Porsche 2022 992 Safari Model 3/7/24 4:22 PM
    WhoopsyM
    81005 239
    AMG Mercedes-Benz W124 500E aka Porsche typ 2758 2/23/24 10:03 PM
    blueflame
    74328 297
    Porsche 992 GT3 RS 3/3/24 7:22 PM
    WhoopsyM
    52083 314
    Motor Sp. Porsche 963 3/16/24 9:27 PM
    WhoopsyM
    23072 237
    133 items found, displaying 1 to 30.