Crown

Gnil:

The Turbo S is exactly the same price as the 650S coupé . ( to be precise , the Porsche is a few hundred francs more expensive ) . 

 

Sorry, little correction ( I confused a number ) :

650S : CHF   279'900.-  =  EUR 229'550.-

TTS :   CHF  272'700 .-  =  EUR 223'650.-

And the price has nothing to do with taxes, as our VAT is 8 %

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 997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

...its the same for many things...not that I want to hijack the thread...but it is annoying this CH pricing...

Looking to buy a 6 core Mac Pro:

US: $3999
CH: CHF: 4499 -> $5100...for the EXACT same product...

996C4, Artic silver (gone) 997C2S, Seal/black, -20mm LSD, PSE (gone) 986S, Arctic Silver (gone)

My '' feeling'' is not a concrete analysis . I am not happy to start to see a Porsche badge on every corner . I liked to have a badge that wasn't everywhere and that everyone would have . I was ready to pay extra for that . Now I am starting more and more to feel I am part of the mass , owning a Porsche .  I do still feel a bit  '' apart and a  special '' with a 911 .

But right now I would not pay a premium to own a 991 Carrera . The car + the direction the brand is going does not represent what I am looking for ( too GT's + too '' commun '' ) . I am slowly seeing Porsche more of a SUV brand  And that is crazy !!!

They realy need to step up there sports car , or I will slowly drift away and just look at it as a family brand .

I am getting more drown toward Mclaren for example ..... because I see it more as the '' old'' Porsche 

 thats exactly what I did, I have a cayenne turbo now and a macan turbo on order, but the only porsches that ill have in my garage at this point are going to be SUVs, I dont see the need for a porsche sports car anymore when the 12C has more than filled that gap, fun wise and performance wise. Price wise yes its more money new, but you can get a used one for very close to a new TTS and the badge on it will never be seen at every corner. Porsche did dilute the brand and at the same time alienated a lot of sports car fans by hiking the prices to exotic levels and i think this was a mistake.

2011 CTT, 2013 12C Spider, 2013 A5 cab, 2014 4Runner Trail Edition

To be honest, I'm not sure my next sports car is going to be a Porsche again. I am however quite confident that my next family SUV will be a Porsche, very likely the next generation (not facelift) Cayenne Turbo S.

Let me explain: I use the sports car only on weekends, so I need to choose something with a huge fun factor at the lowest price possible. In the past, the 911 prices were quite acceptable for the performance they delivered but nowadays, the competition is getting stronger and stronger. I get a Jaguar F-Type R Coupe for 100k EUR. A 991 Carrera S costs me around 30k more with similar options. Just saying... I know, I know, the 911 is a different type of performance car but if a competitor delivers the same performance and fun factor for less money, why not? Especially since I use this car only on weekends.

The family car (or daily driver) is a different story: It needs to be a SUV. The Jeep GC SRT we have now is great and a great value for the money but performance-wise, it doesn't come even close to the Cayenne Turbo S (no wonder, the Jeep costs 65k EUR after rebate, the Cayenne Turbo S 100k more).

So I think that when the 991 Turbo S lease runs out, I may look for a cheaper sports car alternative but go for the sportiest and fastest SUV instead, which would probably be the Cayenne Turbo S.

If I had the money to choose freely, I would get a Lamborghini Aventador or Ferrari F12 as a sports car and the Cayenne Turbo S as a family SUV.

Porsche has reached a price level with the latest 911 Turbo S which already hurts a lot for a weekend fun car. For this kind of money, the car just needs to offer more excitement. I love my 991 Turbo S but I can understand why some people choose something else instead. Porsche should always have the performance edge with the 991 Turbo S but they don't. Yes, the 0-100 kph acceleration time is spectacular, so is the handling but the competition has closed in and with cars like the new 650 S and the Speciale, there isn't much difference in performance or price tag. On the contrary, for a couple of thousands more, the McLaren and the Ferrari actually offer more. More performance and probably more excitement too.

I am sorry but I think that Porsche needs to up their game in many different domains. Just keeping up with the competition doesn't cut it anymore I'm afraid.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)

1000% agree with you having driven the TurboS cabrio last Friday.

I would also add that while the 991 Turbo S makes an excellent daily driver (for those who need it), I would rather get a 991 Carrera 4S for 50-60k EUR less instead if I'd need to use this car on a daily basis. 

I have always been a strong defender of the 991 Turbo S, especially since I know and saw personally how much development work has been put into this car but I also think that Porsche needs to cut down a little bit on (sportscar) profit for the sake of a better performance and more exciting products. Just imagine where the 991 Turbo S would be now if the development team had 10k EUR more to "spend" on each car. I get goose bumps only thinking about it. Even then, they would make much more profit with the car than Ferrari or Lamborghini, I am pretty sure about it.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)

Hmm... I was hugely supriesed that there is no difference(for me) between 991 Turbo and Turbo S. That is my conclusion after long test drive of both cars. Yes, I know that Turbo S owners will claim other things but, difference in speed in marginal in best case scenario.

Yes, 991 Turbo or Turbo S is the best sportscar for daily usage IMHO(after driving Turbo normal Carrera S feels way less powerfull).

BUT... For little bit more money then for 991 Turbo S you can get Huracan which is faster above 200Km/h and faster around track(soon in Sport Auto). 458 Speciale and 650S are way more expensive and are not price wise true competitors. Just, they are faster then 991 Turbo S, 650S above 160km/h way faster...

BTW, in lastest AMS is Macan S Diesel comparison with Q5 and GLK. Also Macan Turbo test.

Macan S Diesel as beaten by Q5 and GLK in every category apart from drive dynamics. Macan S Diesel was not the best in comfort category despite optional air suspension. Worst thing-Macan had the least impresive build quality...

Macan Turbo was pretty fast. Just, the same numbers you can get from Golf R or A45 AMG.

All in all according to AMS Macan do not offer objectively nothing above its competitors save for impressive drive dynamics.

KresoF1:

Hmm... I was hugely supriesed that there is no difference(for me) between 991 Turbo and Turbo S. That is my conclusion after long test drive of both cars. Yes, I know that Turbo S owners will claim other things but, difference in speed in marginal in best case scenario.

Yes, 991 Turbo or Turbo S is the best sportscar for daily usage IMHO(after driving Turbo normal Carrera S feels way less powerfull).

BUT... For little bit more money then for 991 Turbo S you can get Huracan which is faster above 200Km/h and faster around track(soon in Sport Auto). 458 Speciale and 650S are way more expensive and are not price wise true competitors. Just, they are faster then 991 Turbo S, 650S above 160km/h way faster...

 

 

Do you have final prices for the Huracan in Euro?

In the UK it is expected to be £188.000 wheras the Turbo S is £142.000. Big difference and right in the Ferrari, McLaren territory.

"Form follows function"

reginos:

In the UK it is expected to be £188.000 wheras the Turbo S is £142.000. Big difference and right in the Ferrari, McLaren territory.

You can not take the UK as base price for the Turbo S . It is priced way lower in the UK then any other european country . You need to take the German price .... 

Otherwise we take the Swiss price and then the Turbo S cost as much as ( nearly ) a 650 S , way more then a Huracan , which is priced at CHF 226'900 compared to the CHF  272'700.- of the Turbo S 

 997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

Gnil:

reginos:

In the UK it is expected to be £188.000 wheras the Turbo S is £142.000. Big difference and right in the Ferrari, McLaren territory.

You can not take the UK as base price for the Turbo S . It is priced way lower in the UK then any other european country . You need to take the German price .... 

Otherwise we take the Swiss price and then the Turbo S cost as much as ( nearly ) a 650 S , way more then a Huracan , which is priced at CHF 226'900 compared to the CHF  272'700.- of the Turbo S 

I see your point. BTW do the Turbo/S sell in CH at these unrealistic pricing levels?

I took the UK prices because they drive on the correct side of the road, like us

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"Form follows function"

KresoF1:
Base price of Huracan is around 202.5K Euro in Germany with Mwst.
So, with same options only marginally more expensive then 991 Turbo S.

This proves that Porsche are very confident to sell their model at the same price as an "elitist" brand, and my compliments to them. They must have done their homework.

IMO, Porsche can do that because the two cars are not in the same class and they are not true rivals in the market place and outside of magazine tests. It depends very much on the use of the car, the country and the personality of the owner. There are people who wouldn't like to be seen in a Lamborghini or similar for their own reasons and others who wouldn't "waste" 200.000+ EUR on a version of the 911.  There are those who would only consider German engineering and those who want an extrovert style and plenty of engine noise. Not all consumers are the same.

Moreover, if we consider that 14.000 Gallardos were built in its 10 years of production and extrapolate the possible volumes for the Huracan, it is obvious that the existence of the Huracan won't affect much the demand for the Turbo/S.

The Turbo is a car without real rivals, although on paper there are many. Porsche know it and hence they can maximize their gain.

I like the Huracan very much. It is the only "exotic" that I like.

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"Form follows function"

KresoF1:
Base price of Huracan is around 202.5K Euro in Germany with Mwst.
So, with same options only marginally more expensive then 991 Turbo S.

Wow, that much???

reginos:

 

...do the Turbo/S sell in CH at these unrealistic pricing levels?

I see plenty of them in Zürich city. I guess most are leasing cars in which case the price does not matter so much, but it is less suspicious to lease a Porsche 911 as a e.g. Lamborghini as company car  

2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE
2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White

Here is another positive video review of the Turbo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eGqvOGH6lo

I liked this SUV the first time I saw it at the LA Auto Show.

The Macan is a highly interesting product, no doubt about it but I think that we shouldn't kid ourselves. Everything "under" the Macan S is quite frankly "ridiculous" performance-wise. Even the Macan S is questionable.

I also miss a Macan performance monster, like a Macan Turbo S with 440 hp or even more.

In the beginning, I thought the Macan Turbo is a bargain and it actually is compared to the Cayenne GTS or Cayenne S but in the end, it is actually a pretty expensive product. The car I configured was over 100k EUR and a Turbo S will probably easily hit 120k EUR. Yes, the competition doesn't really have something similar right now but they are closing in. I wouldn't be surprised to see a BMW X3 M at some point, Audi may hold back with their Q5 but how long? Also, I am pretty sure that Mercedes will present a GLK AMG version at some point and other manufacturers won't be far behind. 

I like the Macan but I still think that whoever needs a SUV, should opt for the Cayenne instead. Just took another look at the Macan yesterday and the luggage room and rear passenger compartment are, how to put it...quite limited. Yes, I may compare it to the Jeep GC or the Cayenne, which is a little bit unfair but for a lifestyle SUV for usage without kids and luggage, the Macan is way too expensive. 

Difficult decision when my X3 wife's lease runs out. She isn't too fond of the Macan I' afraid.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)

Here we go! The first one....

Ups

2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE
2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White

bluelines:

Ups

Didn't you mean "Uupside-down"? 

Doesn't look like it performs great off-road!

...it appears in the" WreckedExotics.com"  website  This is very positive!

Anyone still insists that the Macan has cheapened the Porsche brand?.

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"Form follows function"

reginos:

...it appears in the" WreckedExotics.com"  website  This is very positive!

Who still insists that the Macan has cheapened the Porsche brand?.

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"Form follows function"

LOL! I was thinking the same!  

The driver clearly isn't to blame here... That tree wasn't on the map. No one could've known....

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Suzy

2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basalt black metallic
2014 Audi A6 Avant 3.0 BiTDI Quattro | Moonshine blue metallic
 

SuzyF:

reginos:

...it appears in the" WreckedExotics.com"  website  This is very positive!

Who still insists that the Macan has cheapened the Porsche brand?.

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"Form follows function"

LOL! I was thinking the same!  

The driver clearly isn't to blame here... That tree wasn't on the map. No one could've known....

 

.....these navigation systems

"Form follows function"

On a more positive note the rear and the tail lights look great upside down. 

Enmanuel:

On a more positive note the rear and the tail lights look great upside down. 

As an architect you naturally have an eye for these things.  

fritz

On a negative node: look how the roof has collapsed all the way down to the top of the headrests... 
Can imagine the driver and passenger may have serious neck injuries...

To those who did not look it up. The accident happened in Poland and it was a, quote, "brutal head-on collision" between the Macan and an Audi A4. A driver and passenger in the Macan, only a driver in the Audi. All survived the collision but were transported to hospital.

I think it seem to have hold up very well for a "brutal" collision and flip-over hitting a tree.

2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE
2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White

sat in a Manan turbo yesterday at a dealership utter rubbish, the dashboard was all plastic and there was not much leg room. The ticket price was £65k ouch. The same price paid for my Cayenne S 10yrs ago and that car I still running with 120k miles on it...another rip-off from Porsche !