Apr 28, 2014 8:54:15 PM
It has the potential to become a cult classic and could sell in the hundreds of thousands easily...
Remember, the only reason the Macan/Cayenne are selling so well is that badge on the hood
1991 BMW 535i Granitsilber/White Leather
Ex: '91 BMW 318i, '89 BMW 525i, '74 Mercedes-Benz 280E, '87 BMW 325is, '86 BMW 325e, '05 Ford Focus ZX4 S, '85.5 Porsche 944
Apr 29, 2014 9:05:13 AM
Atzporsche:
It has the potential to become a cult classic and could sell in the hundreds of thousands easily...
Remember, the only reason the Macan/Cayenne are selling so well is that badge on the hood
The biggest mistake Porsche could make is built a 718 with the performance of a Boxster S or even 991 Carrera for much less money. No matter how "basic" this car would be, it would hurt Porsche brand reputation a lot. Not a good idea. This is why I mentioned that I can imagine a 718 with 300-350 hp at 1000 kg weight with no comfort options, at a price tag of around 90k EUR or so. This is how you keep up the value of the brand and if people really want a car like the 718, well...they have to pay the price. Not that such a car wouldn't be interesting.
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)
RC:
Atzporsche:
It has the potential to become a cult classic and could sell in the hundreds of thousands easily...
Remember, the only reason the Macan/Cayenne are selling so well is that badge on the hoodThe biggest mistake Porsche could make is built a 718 with the performance of a Boxster S or even 991 Carrera for much less money. No matter how "basic" this car would be, it would hurt Porsche brand reputation a lot. Not a good idea. This is why I mentioned that I can imagine a 718 with 300-350 hp at 1000 kg weight with no comfort options, at a price tag of around 90k EUR or so. This is how you keep up the value of the brand and if people really want a car like the 718, well...they have to pay the price. Not that such a car wouldn't be interesting.
A model like the 718 doesn't need so much power. If they can keep it light, then 200-300hp is more than enough to have some old fashioned roadster fun with it. With a car like that it's not about pure numbers, but about the experience. There are still tons of people having way more fun with their "slow" 1960's British roadster with less than 120hp, than some of us have with a 500hp sportscar.
Suzy
2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basalt black metallic
2014 Audi A6 Avant 3.0 BiTDI Quattro | Moonshine blue metallic
SuzyF:
RC:
Atzporsche:
It has the potential to become a cult classic and could sell in the hundreds of thousands easily...
Remember, the only reason the Macan/Cayenne are selling so well is that badge on the hoodThe biggest mistake Porsche could make is built a 718 with the performance of a Boxster S or even 991 Carrera for much less money. No matter how "basic" this car would be, it would hurt Porsche brand reputation a lot. Not a good idea. This is why I mentioned that I can imagine a 718 with 300-350 hp at 1000 kg weight with no comfort options, at a price tag of around 90k EUR or so. This is how you keep up the value of the brand and if people really want a car like the 718, well...they have to pay the price. Not that such a car wouldn't be interesting.
A model like the 718 doesn't need so much power. If they can keep it light, then 200-300hp is more than enough to have some old fashioned roadster fun with it. With a car like that it's not about pure numbers, but about the experience. There are still tons of people having way more fun with their "slow" 1960's British roadster with less than 120hp, than some of us have with a 500hp sportscar.
+1.
fritz
Porsche's engine output and pricing strategies has to be questioned.
If Porsche uses a 2-300hp flat 4 in a $90K 718 as RC implied and if the Audi dealer across the street is selling a 2016 TTS Quattro with a VW based 400hp inline 4cyl for $40K less, Porsche's 718 might have some sales problems to say the least. Porsche should be the ones in the VW empire with dibs on that VW motor, forget the flat 4, why not build a real sports car that crushes all competition for its speed and price. Porsche wants volume? That would do it.
The 928 died when it priced itself out of the market, if the 911 and Boxster keep playing the pricing escalator game they too could end up gathering mold in dealers showrooms or face the end of production on a failure note.
Not sure where the 400hp in the Audi TTS comes from, but as far as I know that car will have the same 300hp engine than the S3. Upcoming TT-RS gets the 5 cylinder engine again. Approx. 350hp.
The 400hp TT was a concept and if they decide to produce that car, it will go over 100k euro.
Suzy
2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basalt black metallic
2014 Audi A6 Avant 3.0 BiTDI Quattro | Moonshine blue metallic
SuzyF:
Not sure where the 400hp in the Audi TTS comes from, but as far as I know that car will have the same 300hp engine than the S3. Upcoming TT-RS gets the 5 cylinder engine again. Approx. 350hp.
The 400hp TT was a concept and if they decide to produce that car, it will go over 100k euro.
You are almost right.... But that Audi is a 420hp variant of the 4cyl VW sourced engine. They couldn't get more for it than what the TT RS was selling for and in the US and many countries it is relatively inexpensive and legal to increase the 235hp 4cyl VW motor to 400bhp. I dont think it would find many buyers at 100K in the EU either., maybe price wise you were thinking of the ultra lightweight tribute car Audi plans to build as a tribute to their original Quattro rally coupe.
SuzyF:A model like the 718 doesn't need so much power. If they can keep it light, then 200-300hp is more than enough to have some old fashioned roadster fun with it. With a car like that it's not about pure numbers, but about the experience. There are still tons of people having way more fun with their "slow" 1960's British roadster with less than 120hp, than some of us have with a 500hp sportscar.
My first sports car experience was with my buddy's Triumph TR-3 and I'm pretty sure it had less than 120hp - and it was so fun!
--
73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550
JimFlat6:
SuzyF:
Not sure where the 400hp in the Audi TTS comes from, but as far as I know that car will have the same 300hp engine than the S3. Upcoming TT-RS gets the 5 cylinder engine again. Approx. 350hp.
The 400hp TT was a concept and if they decide to produce that car, it will go over 100k euro.
You are almost right.... But that Audi is a 420hp variant of the 4cyl VW sourced engine. They couldn't get more for it than what the TT RS was selling for and in the US and many countries it is relatively inexpensive and legal to increase the 235hp 4cyl VW motor to 400bhp. I dont think it would find many buyers at 100K in the EU either., maybe price wise you were thinking of the ultra lightweight tribute car Audi plans to build as a tribute to their original Quattro rally coupe.
The concept had indeed 420hp. Audi TT Quattro Sport it was called I think.
But the 718 will not cost $90k. In the Autobild article they are talking about a starting price of 39k Euro, which is about 5k Euro more than the starting price of the base TT with a 211hp 2.0TFSI. I don't see a problem with that....
Suzy
2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basalt black metallic
2014 Audi A6 Avant 3.0 BiTDI Quattro | Moonshine blue metallic
I don't see a problem with that Suzy,
But I don't think they can build a car with their own flat 4 and sell it a base price of 39K Euros with any where near recent Porsche margins.
Look how much a new GTI/Golf R costs with roughly the same range of power output and their production costs benefit from huge economies of scale.
Unless Porsche plans to have villagers in Bangladesh build engines and transmissions for them that 39K Euro price is just a Porsche PR department tease.
SuzyF:
RC:
Atzporsche:
It has the potential to become a cult classic and could sell in the hundreds of thousands easily...
Remember, the only reason the Macan/Cayenne are selling so well is that badge on the hoodThe biggest mistake Porsche could make is built a 718 with the performance of a Boxster S or even 991 Carrera for much less money. No matter how "basic" this car would be, it would hurt Porsche brand reputation a lot. Not a good idea. This is why I mentioned that I can imagine a 718 with 300-350 hp at 1000 kg weight with no comfort options, at a price tag of around 90k EUR or so. This is how you keep up the value of the brand and if people really want a car like the 718, well...they have to pay the price. Not that such a car wouldn't be interesting.
A model like the 718 doesn't need so much power. If they can keep it light, then 200-300hp is more than enough to have some old fashioned roadster fun with it. With a car like that it's not about pure numbers, but about the experience. There are still tons of people having way more fun with their "slow" 1960's British roadster with less than 120hp, than some of us have with a 500hp sportscar.
To keep it lightweight (and thus low-powered) Porsche should either omit lots of equipment or use lightweight materials.
Lightening a car through materials (aluminum, carbon, titanium?) is too expensive and outside the budget for such a "value" car. The only alternative is a fibreglass body which is too kit car for a premium brand.
By omiting significant equipment they would make the car unattractive to the many, which would in turn affect its sales potential, which would ultimately make the proposed €39.000 price unattainable.
I doubt a strong business case could be made for such a car, although as an idea it sounds wonderful.
Such a car might appear as a Concept, that might become the next Boxtstet if the reaction to it is positive.
--
"Form follows function"
SuzyF:
RC:
Atzporsche:
It has the potential to become a cult classic and could sell in the hundreds of thousands easily...
Remember, the only reason the Macan/Cayenne are selling so well is that badge on the hoodThe biggest mistake Porsche could make is built a 718 with the performance of a Boxster S or even 991 Carrera for much less money. No matter how "basic" this car would be, it would hurt Porsche brand reputation a lot. Not a good idea. This is why I mentioned that I can imagine a 718 with 300-350 hp at 1000 kg weight with no comfort options, at a price tag of around 90k EUR or so. This is how you keep up the value of the brand and if people really want a car like the 718, well...they have to pay the price. Not that such a car wouldn't be interesting.
A model like the 718 doesn't need so much power. If they can keep it light, then 200-300hp is more than enough to have some old fashioned roadster fun with it. With a car like that it's not about pure numbers, but about the experience. There are still tons of people having way more fun with their "slow" 1960's British roadster with less than 120hp, than some of us have with a 500hp sportscar.
It may be more fun to have a toss able sport car but I doubt a sport car enthusiast would buy one especially if he/she has owned a more powerful and faster sport car. If your theory had legs, we all would own a Miata, Lotus or some other lightweight underpowered car and Porsche would be out of business.
If the 718 comes to fruition, most of the buyers will be women, gay community or someone up until now could not afford an entry level Porsche like a Boxster. My wife was looking at a new Boxster S and its MSRP was $80,000! She usually has no compunction about spending money and her reaction was that's crazy. I love my 2011 Boxster S!
Maybe Porsche has tapped into something with the introduction of smaller and cheaper Porsche's.
Porsche appears to be
reginos:To keep it lightweight (and thus low-powered) Porsche should either omit lots of equipment or use lightweight materials.
Lightening a car through materials (aluminum, carbon, titanium?) is too expensive and outside the budget for such a "value" car. The only alternative is a fibreglass body which is too kit car for a premium brand.
By omiting significant equipment they would make the car unattractive to the many, which would in turn affect its sales potential, which would ultimately make the proposed €39.000 price unattainable.
I doubt a strong business case could be made for such a car, although as an idea it sounds wonderful.
Such a car might appear as a Concept, that might become the next Boxtstet if the reaction to it is positive.
The could just polish up and roll out the 1993(?) Boxster concept car again, as that also got a positive reaction at car shows.
fritz
nberry:
SuzyF:
RC:
Atzporsche:
It has the potential to become a cult classic and could sell in the hundreds of thousands easily...
Remember, the only reason the Macan/Cayenne are selling so well is that badge on the hoodThe biggest mistake Porsche could make is built a 718 with the performance of a Boxster S or even 991 Carrera for much less money. No matter how "basic" this car would be, it would hurt Porsche brand reputation a lot. Not a good idea. This is why I mentioned that I can imagine a 718 with 300-350 hp at 1000 kg weight with no comfort options, at a price tag of around 90k EUR or so. This is how you keep up the value of the brand and if people really want a car like the 718, well...they have to pay the price. Not that such a car wouldn't be interesting.
A model like the 718 doesn't need so much power. If they can keep it light, then 200-300hp is more than enough to have some old fashioned roadster fun with it. With a car like that it's not about pure numbers, but about the experience. There are still tons of people having way more fun with their "slow" 1960's British roadster with less than 120hp, than some of us have with a 500hp sportscar.
It may be more fun to have a toss able sport car but I doubt a sport car enthusiast would buy one especially if he/she has owned a more powerful and faster sport car. If your theory had legs, we all would own a Miata, Lotus or some other lightweight underpowered car and Porsche would be out of business.
If the 718 comes to fruition, most of the buyers will be women, gay community or someone up until now could not afford an entry level Porsche like a Boxster. My wife was looking at a new Boxster S and its MSRP was $80,000! She usually has no compunction about spending money and her reaction was that's crazy. I love my 2011 Boxster S!
Maybe Porsche has tapped into something with the introduction of smaller and cheaper Porsche's.
Porsche appears to be
..... ???
Hmmm. Looks like Nick's wife was reading that post over his shoulder and interrupted it to take him behind the woodshed for a lesson in political correctness!
fritz
fritz:
nberry:
SuzyF:
RC:
Atzporsche:
It has the potential to become a cult classic and could sell in the hundreds of thousands easily...
Remember, the only reason the Macan/Cayenne are selling so well is that badge on the hoodThe biggest mistake Porsche could make is built a 718 with the performance of a Boxster S or even 991 Carrera for much less money. No matter how "basic" this car would be, it would hurt Porsche brand reputation a lot. Not a good idea. This is why I mentioned that I can imagine a 718 with 300-350 hp at 1000 kg weight with no comfort options, at a price tag of around 90k EUR or so. This is how you keep up the value of the brand and if people really want a car like the 718, well...they have to pay the price. Not that such a car wouldn't be interesting.
A model like the 718 doesn't need so much power. If they can keep it light, then 200-300hp is more than enough to have some old fashioned roadster fun with it. With a car like that it's not about pure numbers, but about the experience. There are still tons of people having way more fun with their "slow" 1960's British roadster with less than 120hp, than some of us have with a 500hp sportscar.
It may be more fun to have a toss able sport car but I doubt a sport car enthusiast would buy one especially if he/she has owned a more powerful and faster sport car. If your theory had legs, we all would own a Miata, Lotus or some other lightweight underpowered car and Porsche would be out of business.
If the 718 comes to fruition, most of the buyers will be women, gay community or someone up until now could not afford an entry level Porsche like a Boxster. My wife was looking at a new Boxster S and its MSRP was $80,000! She usually has no compunction about spending money and her reaction was that's crazy. I love my 2011 Boxster S!
Maybe Porsche has tapped into something with the introduction of smaller and cheaper Porsche's.
Porsche appears to be
..... ???
Hmmm. Looks like Nick's wife was reading that post over his shoulder and interrupted it to take him behind the woodshed for a lesson in political correctness!
She has taken me several times but this was not one them.
FWIW, she feels the same way as I do. "Not that there is anything wrong with that" And Fritz, for your edification, the quote has a double meaning.
Apr 30, 2014 11:32:04 PM
I don't see how such a car would hurt Porsches reputation at all. What about a Cayenne Diesel (horrible excuse me). A 718 would make sense on a Autobild stated 40K EUR entry with of course a lot less performance than the base Boxster. Don't forget that Porsche is master at filling niches within to a tee with even incremental changes to price, HP and speed.
The base Boxster starts at 59K CAD with 265 HP and the range ends with the Cayman GTS at 89K CAD with 340 HP.
The base 911 picks up here at 96K CAD with 350 HP....
A 718 would slot in below the Boxster as such:
718 Carrera: 39K CAD with 210 HP
718 Carrera S: 49K CAD with 250 HP
Make both similar with minimal base options and allow for specing which can quickly make the price tag grow.. and thus so also profit margins. The 718 is pretty much what the Boxster was 15 years ago... so it's just matured the Boxster (alike to the 911 increase to upscale over the years) and yields a new interpretation of an entry model! I would MUCH MUCH rather see a 718 than a Macan..
1991 BMW 535i Granitsilber/White Leather
Ex: '91 BMW 318i, '89 BMW 525i, '74 Mercedes-Benz 280E, '87 BMW 325is, '86 BMW 325e, '05 Ford Focus ZX4 S, '85.5 Porsche 944
May 1, 2014 3:39:20 PM
SciFrog:
The Boxer is already a small 2 seater, how much smaller can they go? I think you are all dreaming. There is no mass market for a stripped down car, look at sales of the Boxster Spider...
That has far more to do with the crazy roof than the content level of the car.
73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550
I think Sci Frog has a point. You cant ask price X without usual price X category standard features unless the car is wayyyy quicker, better braking and better handling than usual. And even then that appeals only to a very small slice of buyers. Porsche has tried pitting its own models against each other before - the 914/6 vs 911T and the 944Turbo against the Carrera. Now they are going to pit a sub Boxster against a Boxster. Why not just make all of the Boxsters lighter and better handling?
May 1, 2014 9:53:47 PM
SciFrog:
Maybe. But the spider has the spirit of it...
But the spyder was just an overpriced shelf clearing exercise and the markets see this. It was never to fill any niche within the lineup. It was just another "special edition" with minimal changes to clear the inventory.
1991 BMW 535i Granitsilber/White Leather
Ex: '91 BMW 318i, '89 BMW 525i, '74 Mercedes-Benz 280E, '87 BMW 325is, '86 BMW 325e, '05 Ford Focus ZX4 S, '85.5 Porsche 944
May 1, 2014 9:55:05 PM
Remember also that Porsche could easily use lots of VW Group parts to keep the price down (read profits up cause that's the only reason this car might come into life)
1991 BMW 535i Granitsilber/White Leather
Ex: '91 BMW 318i, '89 BMW 525i, '74 Mercedes-Benz 280E, '87 BMW 325is, '86 BMW 325e, '05 Ford Focus ZX4 S, '85.5 Porsche 944
May 22, 2014 10:22:20 PM
Further details on the 718 (w/pic), all according to Car magazine (June '14). (Click forward to the last page and then click on the page itself to read the text.) ISSUE - 623 CAR June 2014 by CAR magazine (http://issuu.com/sjharrison13/docs/car_june_2014_issue_623)
I like it!
73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550
May 23, 2014 11:46:53 AM