Crown

bluelines:

KresoF1:
Tested 650S is a Spider version.

650S Coupe is even faster.

Btw, 991 GT2 RS will never happen...

Especially not as a cabrio  So not comparable to the tested 650S.

For Porsche to present a credible rival in this class, they have to come up with the rumoured Flat 8 turbocharged 960.

Any 911, no matter how fast it is made to be, is a different type of sports car and has a different type of appeal.

The Turbo S vs 650S rivalry is artificial and it is promoted in the absence of real rivals available for testing by the media.

OTOH it is a big compliment for the ubiquitous Porsche to be compared to a super expensive (except in Switzerland) and bespoke sports car, manufactured in very small numbers.

--

"Form follows function"

reginos:

bluelines:

KresoF1:
Tested 650S is a Spider version.

650S Coupe is even faster.

Btw, 991 GT2 RS will never happen...

Especially not as a cabrio  So not comparable to the tested 650S.

For Porsche to present a credible rival in this class, they have to come up with the rumoured Flat 8 turbocharged 960.

Any 911, no matter how fast it is made to be, is a different type of sports car and has a different type of appeal.

The Turbo S vs 650S rivalry is artificial and it is promoted in the absence of real rivals available for testing by the media.

OTOH it is a big compliment for the ubiquitous Porsche to be compared to a super expensive (except in Switzerland) and bespoke sports car, manufactured in very small numbers.

I would not go that far and call a TTS vs 650S (or whatever midengined competitor you would choose) artifical. Firstly it was Porsche who always claimed that their Turbo-models are headed against the - mostly Italian - midengined rivals. When you have a look into the internal dealer model documents during the lauch of a new top-model 911, they always compare the Turbo against cars like Gallardo/Huracan, F430/458 and usual suspects. Secondly, since Porsche decided to price the new TTS only a tad (if any) below the contenders, they have to put up with such a comparison.

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

Rossi:

reginos:

bluelines:

KresoF1:
Tested 650S is a Spider version.

650S Coupe is even faster.

Btw, 991 GT2 RS will never happen...

Especially not as a cabrio  So not comparable to the tested 650S.

For Porsche to present a credible rival in this class, they have to come up with the rumoured Flat 8 turbocharged 960.

Any 911, no matter how fast it is made to be, is a different type of sports car and has a different type of appeal.

The Turbo S vs 650S rivalry is artificial and it is promoted in the absence of real rivals available for testing by the media.

OTOH it is a big compliment for the ubiquitous Porsche to be compared to a super expensive (except in Switzerland) and bespoke sports car, manufactured in very small numbers.

I would not go that far and call a TTS vs 650S (or whatever midengined competitor you would choose) artifical. Firstly it was Porsche who always claimed that their Turbo-models are headed against the - mostly Italian - midengined rivals. When you have a look into the internal dealer model documents during the lauch of a new top-model 911, they always compare the Turbo against cars like Gallardo/Huracan, F430/458 and usual suspects. Secondly, since Porsche decided to price the new TTS only a tad (if any) below the contenders, they have to put up with such a comparison.

This is a marketing effort on behalf of Porsche to position the top 911 higher than where it belongs. Unfortunately, after 20 years of introducing new models, Porsche haven't been able to come up with a credible rival to the mid-engined supersportscars.

As to the pricing, excepting some markets, the Turbo S sells at 70% of the 650S, or some 50.000 GBP below which is not exactly negligible.

--

"Form follows function"

reginos:

As to the pricing, excepting some markets, the Turbo S sells at 70% of the 650S, or some 40.000 GBP below which is not exactly negligible.

Price-wise in Germany a TTS is very comparable to a 458 or a Huracan, it doesn't have to be a 650S.

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

Rossi:

reginos:

As to the pricing, excepting some markets, the Turbo S sells at 70% of the 650S, or some 40.000 GBP below which is not exactly negligible.

Price-wise in Germany a TTS is very comparable to a 458 or a Huracan, it doesn't have to be a 650S.

In the UK the two cars compared in this thread cost GBP 142K (Turbo S) and 195K (Mac). 53K (I thought 40K originally) difference

The 458 is 178K (+36K).

Weird pricing around the world!

--

"Form follows function"

KresoF1:
Tested 650S is a Spider version.

650S Coupe is even faster.

Btw, 991 GT2 RS will never happen...

Even if the Coupe version is slightly faster (weight difference is not much, though - should not be much quicker): it is still interesting that a three year old car with the tires of that time (997 GT2 RS) is quicker on the tracks than the latest 650hp McLaren...

Why no 991GT2RS?

2013 BMW 750 xDrive & 2012 x5 & 2014 991 TTS Cab. Range Rover V8 on order June14 - GT3 or Huracan to add next......decisions decisions decisions.....

reginos:

KresoF1:
Tested 650S is a Spider version.

650S Coupe is even faster.

Btw, 991 GT2 RS will never happen...

Why you are not considering the McLaren? You seem too impressed?

Why not 650S Coupe?  Closest dealer/service is in Vienna, Austria. I live in Zagreb, Croatia and I ONLY buy a car which is supported locally with dealer and service department. So, my choice is currently narrowed only to 991 or GT AMG. IMHO the is actually a good thing since these are my two favourite sportscars.

BUT... I am not a brand loyal as I presume you are. 650S is an awsome sportscar and I admit that.It is faster then 458 Speciale and Huracan, both in straight line and on the track. Price wise 650S is pretty expensive(same level as 458 Speciale) sportcar.

991 Turbo S is also IMHO too expensive since it is at Huracan level in Germany.

Rossi:

reginos:

bluelines:

KresoF1:
Tested 650S is a Spider version.

650S Coupe is even faster.

Btw, 991 GT2 RS will never happen...

Especially not as a cabrio  So not comparable to the tested 650S.

For Porsche to present a credible rival in this class, they have to come up with the rumoured Flat 8 turbocharged 960.

Any 911, no matter how fast it is made to be, is a different type of sports car and has a different type of appeal.

The Turbo S vs 650S rivalry is artificial and it is promoted in the absence of real rivals available for testing by the media.

OTOH it is a big compliment for the ubiquitous Porsche to be compared to a super expensive (except in Switzerland) and bespoke sports car, manufactured in very small numbers.

I would not go that far and call a TTS vs 650S (or whatever midengined competitor you would choose) artifical. Firstly it was Porsche who always claimed that their Turbo-models are headed against the - mostly Italian - midengined rivals. When you have a look into the internal dealer model documents during the lauch of a new top-model 911, they always compare the Turbo against cars like Gallardo/Huracan, F430/458 and usual suspects. Secondly, since Porsche decided to price the new TTS only a tad (if any) below the contenders, they have to put up with such a comparison.

 

Excellent analysis Stefan!

I also decided that 185K €(german price) is upper limit what I am willing to pay for 991. So, 991 Turbo for me, not Turbo S. Also, I drove both Turbo and Turbo S on the same day and I did not noticed any difference at all. They even sounded the same to me.

I know that most 991 Turbo S owners are sure that their car is faster then 991 Turbo. But, I know the truth and that truth is not an easy thing to swollow... In real world daily driving on pubic road or authbahn there is NO difference between 991 Turbo and Turbo S.

KresoF1:
Tested 650S is a Spider version.

650S Coupe is even faster.

Btw, 991 GT2 RS will never happen...

Btw. 991 GT2 RS is going to happen...

Ok, let's presumme that you are right.

German base price for 991 GT2 RS will be...? 250K € with Mwst?

And IF Porsche decide to build 960 its german base price will be...? 300K € with Mwst?

KresoF1:

reginos:

KresoF1:
Tested 650S is a Spider version.

650S Coupe is even faster.

Btw, 991 GT2 RS will never happen...

Why you are not considering the McLaren? You seem too impressed?

Why not 650S Coupe?  Closest dealer/service is in Vienna, Austria. I live in Zagreb, Croatia and I ONLY buy a car which is supported locally with dealer and service department. So, my choice is currently narrowed only to 991 or GT AMG. IMHO the is actually a good thing since these are my two favourite sportscars.

I agree with that condition and not only for reasons of distance.

BUT... I am not a brand loyal as I presume you are. 650S is an awsome sportscar and I admit that.It is faster then 458 Speciale and Huracan, both in straight line and on the track. Price wise 650S is pretty expensive(same level as 458 Speciale) sportcar.

The McLaren may be technically brilliant and very fast, but it is a new company making very specialized cars and its long term financial viability might be uncertain. I wouldn't commit the very large amount asked for their cars unless money didn't matter at all. I'd rather go to the established manufacturers and forget about the 1/10s differences.

991 Turbo S is also IMHO too expensive since it is at Huracan level in Germany.

The price of the Turbo S in the UK converts to 171.000 EUR, compared to 197.000 EUR in Germany. How Porsche can justify that, I don't know!

"Form follows function"

KresoF1:

I also decided that 185K €(german price) is upper limit what I am willing to pay for 991. So, 991 Turbo for me, not Turbo S. Also, I drove both Turbo and Turbo S on the same day and I did not noticed any difference at all. They even sounded the same to me.

I know that most 991 Turbo S owners are sure that their car is faster then 991 Turbo. But, I know the truth and that truth is not an easy thing to swollow... In real world daily driving on pubic road or authbahn there is NO difference between 991 Turbo and Turbo S.

So, you will have around 20.000 EUR for options. What do you think is worth adding?

"Form follows function"

reginos:

KresoF1:

I also decided that 185K €(german price) is upper limit what I am willing to pay for 991. So, 991 Turbo for me, not Turbo S. Also, I drove both Turbo and Turbo S on the same day and I did not noticed any difference at all. They even sounded the same to me.

I know that most 991 Turbo S owners are sure that their car is faster then 991 Turbo. But, I know the truth and that truth is not an easy thing to swollow... In real world daily driving on pubic road or authbahn there is NO difference between 991 Turbo and Turbo S.

So, you will have around 20.000 EUR for options. What do you think is worth adding?

Nyan Cat wrap 

2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE
2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White

^^^  

Suzy

2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basalt black metallic
2014 Audi A6 Avant 3.0 BiTDI Quattro | Moonshine blue metallic
 

reginos:

KresoF1:

I also decided that 185K €(german price) is upper limit what I am willing to pay for 991. So, 991 Turbo for me, not Turbo S. Also, I drove both Turbo and Turbo S on the same day and I did not noticed any difference at all. They even sounded the same to me.

I know that most 991 Turbo S owners are sure that their car is faster then 991 Turbo. But, I know the truth and that truth is not an easy thing to swollow... In real world daily driving on pubic road or authbahn there is NO difference between 991 Turbo and Turbo S.

So, you will have around 20.000 EUR for options. What do you think is worth adding?

LEDs, front parking sensors, 20" Sport Classics, Adaptive seats, PDCC, Sport Chrono, Interior lights package, tempomat, some leather items for interior, PDK lever in alu, alu paddles, etc.

Same here. No local mac dealer. So not even in consideration. 

KresoF1:

reginos:

KresoF1:

I also decided that 185K €(german price) is upper limit what I am willing to pay for 991. So, 991 Turbo for me, not Turbo S. Also, I drove both Turbo and Turbo S on the same day and I did not noticed any difference at all. They even sounded the same to me.

I know that most 991 Turbo S owners are sure that their car is faster then 991 Turbo. But, I know the truth and that truth is not an easy thing to swollow... In real world daily driving on pubic road or authbahn there is NO difference between 991 Turbo and Turbo S.

So, you will have around 20.000 EUR for options. What do you think is worth adding?

LEDs, front parking sensors, 20" Sport Classics, Adaptive seats, PDCC, Sport Chrono, Interior lights package, tempomat, some leather items for interior, PDK lever in alu, alu paddles, etc.

Apart from the engine tuning, only PCCB will be missing compared to the S package.

--

"Form follows function"

ffforever:

The 12 C did 7:28 at the 'Ring so 650S is only slightly faster I guess..

650S comes with track tires, more power and torque, and sportier suspension - should be much faster...

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

Grant:

ffforever:

The 12 C did 7:28 at the 'Ring so 650S is only slightly faster I guess..

650S comes with track tires, more power and torque, and sportier suspension - should be much faster...

The SportAuto SuperTest of the 12c was already done with Corsa tires 

yes, 10 seconds faster than 7min 34 sec of 991 turbo S yields 7:24...

we will see if and when super test occurs

KresoF1:
I know that most 991 Turbo S owners are sure that their car is faster then 991 Turbo. But, I know the truth and that truth is not an easy thing to swollow... In real world daily driving on pubic road or authbahn there is NO difference between 991 Turbo and Turbo S.
 

I know, Walter Röhrl said exactly the same thing in one of his videos test driving the 991 Turbo.

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

reginos:

KresoF1:

reginos:

So, you will have around 20.000 EUR for options. What do you think is worth adding?

LEDs, front parking sensors, 20" Sport Classics, Adaptive seats, PDCC, Sport Chrono, Interior lights package, tempomat, some leather items for interior, PDK lever in alu, alu paddles, etc.

Apart from the engine tuning, only PCCB will be missing compared to the S package.

All else being equal, though, that is around a 10% price difference (~$8500 for the engine tuning + ~$9200 for PCCB = ~$17700) between the two, using US prices.

Pricing dynamics are interesting...here in the US the Turbo S is the equivalent of 132,000 Euros and here in Texas the sale tax is another 8.25%. 

Kreso, have you considered used? Are they are discount yet for used ones?

911 Turbos have never really been down to hold value, so I'm expecting big depreciation on these with these new, massive stickers once used ones start to show up.

No, I would not buy used 991 Turbo S for example. Why?

Well, I very much like to get my sportscar with my own specs.

For example I would consider used SUV(Cayenne) if the price and specs are good for me.

Rossi:

KresoF1:
I know that most 991 Turbo S owners are sure that their car is faster then 991 Turbo. But, I know the truth and that truth is not an easy thing to swollow... In real world daily driving on pubic road or authbahn there is NO difference between 991 Turbo and Turbo S.
 

I know, Walter Röhrl said exactly the same thing in one of his videos test driving the 991 Turbo.

 

You know what they say, if it ain't a Turbo S you ain't got a chance to lineup next to a Veyron

I had a chance to drive a 650S on the weekend. Unfrigginbelievable! ...Haven't been able to sleep properly, since. After owning eleven 911's, I am beginning to think that the only Porsche in my future may be a diesel Macan. The 12C did nothing for me but the 650 grabbed me hard. Real hard! 

JAMS:

I had a chance to drive a 650S on the weekend. Unfrigginbelievable! ...Haven't been able to sleep properly, since. After owning eleven 911's, I am beginning to think that the only Porsche in my future may be a diesel Macan. The 12C did nothing for me but the 650 grabbed me hard. Real hard! 

I bet it is quite a ride!  Did you notice better steering  feel in the 650S over the 991?  They use the cool electric-hydraulic steering system in the 650S, as used in the 997 Cup and RSR (e-motor drives hydraulic pump).

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

I don't have much time in the 991..  Test drove the TTS a fews weeks ago but it's hard for me to compare without doing it back to back. The 650 felt very nimble, very responsive and the acceleration is mind-blowing! Everything about the car - the new P1 style front, the sound, the feel, the ride, the fit and finish - was outstanding. Obviously, this is not an all-weather competitor to the TTS but my 911's were weekend toys and this car is the ultimate in that regard, IMHO.