Crown

Here's wishing that the Chinese GP is as thrilling as the last race in Bahrain 

997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red

easy_rider911:

Here's wishing that the Chinese GP is as thrilling as the last race in Bahrain 

Yes! Yes!  The race is Bahrain was definitely entertaining and the latest news out of the Mercedes camp suggests that team orders are reduced to race but don't crash the car.  The other teams will likely follow.  

Hamilton on fire... RIC better than VET again... ROS not so good...

1. HAM

2. RIC

3. VET

4. ROS

5. ALO

6. MAS

There is no try. Just do.

Vettel admitted that he must improve and that RIC is doing a better job. After 4 in a row I understand that the Champion has lost some of his hunger contrary to the new boy with all to prove. But VET shouldn't be discounted.

Ferrari's from continues to be mediocre and I am not complaining .

Raikkonen who was so good with Lotus last year, cannot find any form with Ferrari and he has been far from Alonso! Why

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"Form follows function"

Well done Mercedes and Lewis

Well done Alonso. The P3 is his own not the car's.

Where is Vettel?

Where is Kimi?

Ricciardo is not a rookie in F1 but so far he is the "New Star".

"Form follows function"

I though Vetttel had mechanical issues given his performance but in post race interview he said that there were no mechanical problems with the car, that he is just not were he wants to be and when questioned about why Ric is in front of him again, he said that Ric seems to be able to extract more from the car. And so far in the season, Ric has outerfomed Vettel.

Vettel is not good under pressure and it just keeps piling up. You could see in the race with his radio comments...

Kimi is another  case, he finished 8th something like 60 seconds behind Alonso. I'm biased towards Alonso and never thought Kimi, although one of the fastest drivers, would not out perform Alonso, but after four races the difference is much bigger than I thought. The Ferrari is a handfull and Alonso made it look better than it is.

And one this is Massa doing poorly, but when a driver like Kimi finishes 7th, 12th, 10th and 8th with the Ferrari, it shows what a pathetic job the team is doing in developing the car. You can't blame it on the driver.

Mercedes did too god a job that they have taken all suspene from who will win the championship. Dooesn't matter what their drivers do (and they are doing a good job too), they will win no matter what, this season is all about the car again.

3 weeks break now so maybe we will see some changes in the cars.

Last few years when Red Bull was utterly dominating, they never quite have the KERS system working properly, maybe Vettel's style isn't adapt to help from KERS. But this year KERS plays a much bigger role hence his drop in performance?

We always know Hamilton has the raw speed and talent, arguably one who has the most raw speed among the current drivers, this year he finally has a top notch car to go with his talent.

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Whoopsy:

Last few years when Red Bull was utterly dominating, they never quite have the KERS system working properly, maybe Vettel's style isn't adapt to help from KERS. But this year KERS plays a much bigger role hence his drop in performance?

We always know Hamilton has the raw speed and talent, arguably one who has the most raw speed among the current drivers, this year he finally has a top notch car to go with his talent.

I don't think Vettel can blame the ERS for his performance. I think his problem is that he doesn't have the "touch" to drive a car with a lot less downforce than he's used to. Whether he will get it is the big question for him this season, but it will be terribly embarrassing for him to finish 2nd on his team.

Not as exciting racing as the previous round, although interesting to see the teams less "orderly" in their finish. Alonso, once again, a great drive in a not so great car. Imagine if he had been in a better car the past 7 years.

Niki Lauda tries to keep the Team on the ground:

"It is looking good, but let's be careful. There are a lot of races to come."

"The Red Bulls are famous for coming back, and Newey is there.

"He wasn't here, so he sends something new for Barcelona I'm afraid.

"Things can go wrong in any way. But, at least the start point for us is not a bad one."

"Form follows function"

apias:

Whoopsy:

Last few years when Red Bull was utterly dominating, they never quite have the KERS system working properly, maybe Vettel's style isn't adapt to help from KERS. But this year KERS plays a much bigger role hence his drop in performance?

We always know Hamilton has the raw speed and talent, arguably one who has the most raw speed among the current drivers, this year he finally has a top notch car to go with his talent.

I don't think Vettel can blame the ERS for his performance. I think his problem is that he doesn't have the "touch" to drive a car with a lot less downforce than he's used to. Whether he will get it is the big question for him this season, but it will be terribly embarrassing for him to finish 2nd on his team.

Not as exciting racing as the previous round, although interesting to see the teams less "orderly" in their finish. Alonso, once again, a great drive in a not so great car. Imagine if he had been in a better car the past 7 years.

I agree with the comments about Vettel: He is having significant difficulties adapting to the new car and the new technologies inherent in the platform.  It must be very frustrating for the Red Bull team to realize that the current Word Champion can not be competitive with the new car.  

Mercedes and, especially, Hamilton continue to amaze. Alonso has continually demonstrated outstanding skill, even in the face of an uncompetitive car.  Kimi on the other hand...At this point, many at Ferrari probably wish that Massa was still with the team.  His performance with Williams signifies he is a very, very capable, but sometimes too risky, driver.

CGX car nut:

I agree with the comments about Vettel: He is having significant difficulties adapting to the new car and the new technologies inherent in the platform.  It must be very frustrating for the Red Bull team to realize that the current Word Champion can not be competitive with the new car.  

The only problem I have with this is that Ricciardo has less experience in F1, comes from a different team and different car all together, and yet from day one he is able to perform better than Vettel who has only changed from last year's RB to this year's RB. True there have been changes from last year to this year in the cars, but those changes were the same for everyone, and even greater for Ric vs Vet.

Personally I think he was never at the level of drivers like Hamilton or Alonso, but that he has never had  to extract 110% from the car to win because he always had a way superior car, and this is what he has to do this season, and even the rookie Ric is getting the job done while Vettel struggles.

Carlos from Spain:

CGX car nut:

I agree with the comments about Vettel: He is having significant difficulties adapting to the new car and the new technologies inherent in the platform.  It must be very frustrating for the Red Bull team to realize that the current Word Champion can not be competitive with the new car.  

The only problem I have with this is that Ricciardo has less experience in F1, comes from a different team and different car all together, and yet from day one he is able to perform better than Vettel who has only changed from last year's RB to this year's RB. True there have been changes from last year to this year in the cars, but those changes were the same for everyone, and even greater for Ric vs Vet.

Personally I think he was never at the level of drivers like Hamilton or Alonso, but that he has never had  to extract 110% from the car to win because he always had a way superior car, and this is what he has to do this season, and even the rookie Ric is getting the job done while Vettel struggles.

I tend to agree with this interpretation of Vettel's struggles. I think he may fundamentally lack the finesse to drive a car that isn't glued to the road. With the older aero, they were able to build him a car that all he had to do was point it where he wanted it to go, and it did, and his aggression took care of the rest. Now, he's sliding around, causing trouble with his tires, which is causing him to go a lot slower than his teammate.

On the broadcast I watched, they were talking, I think it was after the race, about him having similar troubles once before, when the double diffusers were ruled out, and Weber was faster than him for several races. Then, he either adjusted, or they adjusted the car for his style, but this time his trouble seems more fundamental.

I agree that he simply doesn't have the skill or abilities of Alonso, who is, in my opinion, the best driver on the grid today in terms of raw talent and skill, but, unfortunately, just hasn't had the car to ride to glory.

Carlos from Spain:

CGX car nut:

I agree with the comments about Vettel: He is having significant difficulties adapting to the new car and the new technologies inherent in the platform.  It must be very frustrating for the Red Bull team to realize that the current Word Champion can not be competitive with the new car.  

The only problem I have with this is that Ricciardo has less experience in F1, comes from a different team and different car all together, and yet from day one he is able to perform better than Vettel who has only changed from last year's RB to this year's RB. True there have been changes from last year to this year in the cars, but those changes were the same for everyone, and even greater for Ric vs Vet.

Personally I think he was never at the level of drivers like Hamilton or Alonso, but that he has never had  to extract 110% from the car to win because he always had a way superior car, and this is what he has to do this season, and even the rookie Ric is getting the job done while Vettel struggles.

Relax friends  Vettel is still the most successful driver in the current F1 field (based on titles). Just give him some time  It would be a big surprise if he could not master the competition 

To be fair, he won those titles with a significantly superior car than all his competition so those titles don't really say much on the driver, doesn't mean that he could not be the greatest driver in the world but just that those titles prove nothing for or against that.

Interestingly, now that he doesn't have that car, he can't even outperform the rookie they brought in from Toro Rosso to fill the second driver spot. 

Carlos, who has won titles with an inferior car?

Perhaps, Schumacher in his Benetton period when Williams had the best car, but his championships were full of controversies. And probably, Raikkonen when McLaren allowed Alonso and Hamilton to cannibalize each other. And definitely, Hunt when Lauda missed races due to his accident.

"Form follows function"

in nowadays it's 80% car - which is a shame - if you look at other series the field is so much closer that the driver makes a much bigger impact that in F1 - If I pay 20 Mio a driver I'd rather see him making the difference than the car -Ricciardo is the best example - they probably pay him peanuts and look what he does. I also believe now that Vettel was in the right car at the right time - but a lot of F1 drivers could  have done this equally.

BjoernB:

Ricciardo is the best example - they probably pay him peanuts and look what he does.

And not only do they pay him peanuts but bEing the rookie he also has to take a lot of bull and not complain, we saw on this race how Vettel was told to let Ric pass since be was faster and fighting for the podium and Vettel said tough luck and did not let him until it was to late for Ric and had lost enough time that he ran out of laps at the end to catch Alonso. If it weren't for Vettel's attitude, Ric would have been this third on Sunday. And after that Ric still has that smile on his face for everybody inspite of that, what a difference from Vettel.

On a side note I believe Alonso is the best paid driver in the line up.

Ricciardo hasn't achieved anything so far besides two P4 and 24 points. He looks promising but these eulogies are totally premature. It is at least amusing to compare him with a 4 times Champion and multiple GP winner. In competition all is judged by results.

Alonso backed the wrong horse and chose the red uniform based on non-objective criteria. If he chose more carefully he might have won another title or two by now, perhaps. He drives at least as well as some others in F1, but he is short on personality and leadership to lift the ailing Scuderia and stop the drought , like Lauda did in the 70s  and Schumacher in the 00s.

Alonso can finish a few positions above the worth of the car, this is true but this is not the same as turning a team around with his influence and winning championships.

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"Form follows function"

BjoernB:

in nowadays it's 80% car - which is a shame - if you look at other series the field is so much closer that the driver makes a much bigger impact that in F1 - If I pay 20 Mio a driver I'd rather see him making the difference than the car -Ricciardo is the best example - they probably pay him peanuts and look what he does. I also believe now that Vettel was in the right car at the right time - but a lot of F1 drivers could  have done this equally.

This does tend to be the case. There have not been many seasons lately where there was much of a real battle between drivers not on the same team for the championship.

Rule/package changes, limits on testing and time constraints make car development something of a crapshoot and one team always manages to roll a 7.

reginos:

Ricciardo hasn't achieved anything so far besides two P4 and 24 points. He looks promising but these eulogies are totally premature. It is at least amusing to compare him with a 4 times Champion and multiple GP winner. In competition all is judged by results.

Alonso backed the wrong horse and chose the red uniform based on non-objective criteria. If he chose more carefully he might have won another title or two by now, perhaps. He drives at least as well as some others in F1, but he is short on personality and leadership to lift the ailing Scuderia and stop the drought , like Lauda did in the 70s  and Schumacher in the 00s.

Alonso can finish a few positions above the worth of the car, this is true but this is not the same as turning a team around with his influence and winning championships.

 

"Form follows function"

At least as good? 

If anything Alonso is the completel driver in the line up, there are fast drivers, consistent drivers, involved drivers, smart-analitical drivers, etc but Alonso is the complete package, that is why he is voted by the F1 teams themselves the best driver amongst them consitently every year, and they kind of know what they are talking about. Last driver I saw as a complete package like that was Shummacher. Unfortunately Alonso has had much worse luck on choosing teams after the first two championship titles.

BTW here is the english fan's poll on who was the driver of the day on Sunday  http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2014/04/chinese-gp-who-was-your-driver-of-the-day/

In today0's F1 a specific thing like an certain aero package can be the difference between a dominating car and a mediocre car and the driver can do nothing about that, not even the money the team has implies better development.

Lets be serious, having a guy like Newey in your team, or the Brawn/Todt combo has 10000% more influence on the performance of the car that what any driver can do. And Ferarri's problems cannot be fixed or even inlfuenced by any driver, not even one as involved as Alosno who is obcessive to the detail on everything about the car, the total opposite to Kimi for example.

What is up to the driver is to help "setup" the car over the weeeknd and extract the maximum potential from the car come race day, and that is were Alonso shines as he proves consistently every GP finishing several places ahead of what his ride deserves based on its performance. Just look at the Ferrari's actual perfomrnace by the results of a driver like Kimi with the same car.

And those two things and what Vettel seems to be not doing well now that he doesn't have a car that only need to be driven confortably at 8/10 to win the race. While Ricciardo, who is new to the team and the car, is showning on qualifying and race day how its done.

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apias:

BjoernB:

in nowadays it's 80% car - which is a shame - if you look at other series the field is so much closer that the driver makes a much bigger impact that in F1 - If I pay 20 Mio a driver I'd rather see him making the difference than the car -Ricciardo is the best example - they probably pay him peanuts and look what he does. I also believe now that Vettel was in the right car at the right time - but a lot of F1 drivers could  have done this equally.

This does tend to be the case. There have not been many seasons lately where there was much of a real battle between drivers not on the same team for the championship.

Rule/package changes, limits on testing and time constraints make car development something of a crapshoot and one team always manages to roll a 7.

Very true, we fans can't catch a break, if its not the Brawn diffuser its Newey's RB, and now Mercede's engine... every one of those championships has been completely dominated by the car, with the drivers having second hand rolls in everything.

BTW, good analysis on the Vettel not letting his teamate Ric pass against team orders and costing Reb Bull team a podium finsish, and how it all played out:

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2014/04/insight-how-rosberg-came-through-ricciardo-was-compromised-and-alonso-got-away-with-it/

Carlos from Spain:

reginos:

Ricciardo hasn't achieved anything so far besides two P4 and 24 points. He looks promising but these eulogies are totally premature. It is at least amusing to compare him with a 4 times Champion and multiple GP winner. In competition all is judged by results.

Alonso backed the wrong horse and chose the red uniform based on non-objective criteria. If he chose more carefully he might have won another title or two by now, perhaps. He drives at least as well as some others in F1, but he is short on personality and leadership to lift the ailing Scuderia and stop the drought , like Lauda did in the 70s  and Schumacher in the 00s.

Alonso can finish a few positions above the worth of the car, this is true but this is not the same as turning a team around with his influence and winning championships.

 

"Form follows function"

 

 Unfortunately Alonso has had much worse luck on choosing teams after the first two championship titles.

That's part of the champion package to assess and choose the moves around teams. Similar to footballers.

Lets be serious, having a guy like Newey in your team, or the Brawn/Todt combo has 10000% more influence on the performance of the car that what any driver can do. And Ferarri's problems cannot be fixed or even inlfuenced by any driver, not even one as involved as Alosno who is obcessive to the detail on everything about the car, the total opposite to Kimi for example.

It is called motorsport after all. Of course the car is very crucial and the engineers behind the car are a vital component in the equation. This shouldn't even be discussed. And historically the best cars go to the best drivers, as a general rule. However, sometimes a car doesn't suit a good driver's driving style right away and he takes some time to adapt, e.g. Vettel and Raikkonen this season.

BTW, this year I rate Lewis Hamilton very highly and I back him for the Title. The man is of course no fluke with one championship at 23 (having won all feeder series prior to F1), 25 wins and in 2007, as a rookie, matching "complete package Alonso" in points but placed above him in the championship in the same car.

IMO, Alonso is good driver but not better than Hamilton or Vettel. These are the 3 top drivers post Schumacher. Definitely, if he was more astute he could have won more titles e.g.  if he stayed at McLaren, or went with Newey at the right time, or foresaw the rising of Mercedes. Instead he was dazzled by Ferrari and the prospect of having an inferior team mate (Massa) who wouldn't trouble him.

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"Form follows function"

I don't count fortune telling as part of the job description of an F1 driver, no one knows what car is going to be competitive the followig year, all you can do is choose one of the traditionally top teams and hope for the best.

And even then there is no guarantee. No one knew Brawn GP was going to have an edge in 2009 and Button was liucky and capitalised even though he is not a top driver. No one knew RBR was going to be so dominat and Vettel was very lucky to land the seat, Alonso was offered the seat but it was too much of a gamble and Vettel on the other hand coming from Toro Rosso had noting to loose. And seats are very limited so you can't just jump every year into the one you think will win, there has to be an opening and your contract finished with your previous. Thats OK though, imagine what would of happened if Alonso would of signed with RBR, the three last years the champiosnhip would have been setteled mid way though the season with Alonso behind the wheel, no fun at all.

Even when Alonso went to McLaren he chose a good car that year but unfortunately the team had other intentions and favored Denni's boy to an extreme, sabotaging one's chances in favor of the other, essentially throwing for either and giving the title to Ferrari who took advantage of the situation. That was McLarens year of shame with the spygate scandal and the "we are racing against Alonso" statement form Dennis.

Hamilton though has become one of the best drivers in the line up, his only problem is consistency in all situations and adversities, but IMO that won't be a problem this year since his car is so good that he will earn enough points anyway. and he has matured a lot. The title is basically his to loose this year.

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Carlos from Spain:

I don't count fortune telling as part of the job description of an F1 driver, no one knows what car is going to be competitive the followig year, all you can do is choose one of the traditionally top teams and hope for the best.

Not fortune telling but analyzing the field. Newey delivered championship cars with Williams and McLaren. Doing the same with RBR was an inevitability.

Similarly, when giant Mercedes entered F1 as a full team, it would have been a matter of (short) time before they were at the top. Another logical deduction.

Brawn I agree was an unexpected fluke.

Even when Alonso went to McLaren he chose a good car that year but unfortunately the team had other intentions and favored Denni's boy to an extreme, sabotaging one's chances in favor of the other, essentially throwing for either and giving the title to Ferrari who took advantage of the situation. That was McLarens year of shame with the spygate scandal and the "we are racing against Alonso" statement form Dennis.

Perhaps, Alonso could have been more co-operative with McLaren and not become disenchanted over the #1 status. He would have won in 2008, even if LH won in 2007 without the intra-team hostility, instead of Raikkonen.

Hamilton though has become one of the best drivers in the line up, his only problem is consistency in all situations and adversities, but IMO that won't be a problem this year since his car is so good that he will earn enough points anyway. and he has matured a lot. The title is basically his to loose this year.

I have followed Hamilton since the days of F3 and GP2. The man was a star all along. He won both feeder series with consummate ease. Hamilton is just too temperamental/impatient  sometimes and this doesn't do him good. He is learning to be more calculating during races.

I hope he gets his second title, but it is too early in the season.

"Form follows function"

reginos:

Carlos from Spain:

I don't count fortune telling as part of the job description of an F1 driver, no one knows what car is going to be competitive the followig year, all you can do is choose one of the traditionally top teams and hope for the best.

Not fortune telling but analyzing the field. Newey delivered championship cars with Williams and McLaren. Doing the same with RBR was an inevitability.

That's easy to say with 20/20 hindsight but back then nobody thought the sports drink team would dominate like that the next three years.

Similarly, when giant Mercedes entered F1 as a full team, it would have been a matter of (short) time before they were at the top. Another logical deduction.

Honda was a giant with a huge amount invested in F1 and look were got them. The reason Mercedes is on top now is because they started developing the turbo engine two years ago, much earlier than Ferrari and Renault, and they are now ahead because of it, which is very well played on their part.

I have followed Hamilton since the days of F3 and GP2. The man was a star all along. He won both feeder series with consummate ease. Hamilton is just too temperamental/impatient  sometimes and this doesn't do him good. He is learning to be more calculating during races.

I hope he gets his second title, but it is too early in the season.

I agree.

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Carlos from Spain:

To be fair, he won those titles with a significantly superior car than all his competition so those titles don't really say much on the driver, doesn't mean that he could not be the greatest driver in the world but just that those titles prove nothing for or against that.

Interestingly, now that he doesn't have that car, he can't even outperform the rookie they brought in from Toro Rosso to fill the second driver spot. 

The title is the title. Those who don't win them will always search for excuses. To win a title is always difficult 

The more titles the better the driver. Every other benchmark is highly subjective, I feel 

MKSGR:

The title is the title. Those who don't win them will always search for excuses. To win a title is always difficult 

The more titles the better the driver. Every other benchmark is highly subjective, I feel 

I don't know, if Mercedes maintain their current dominance through the season, I think Hamilton will rather easily cruise to the title. Sure, he cant exactly phone it in, but his only real competition right now can only come from Rosberg, not from any of the other drivers.

So, if that's an objective measure, then, following that logic, it means, going by the results so far this season, that not only has Hamilton gained tremendous skill as a driver this season, but that Vettel has lost tremendous skill. That could be. After all, Vettel can't even keep up with his rookie teammate this season, so perhaps he did just lose it over the winter. And, we don't know exactly how, but Hamilton has apparently gained all that Vettel has lost.

Or is it a more reasonable explanation to observe that, after several years of utter domination by RBR, where Vettel was only really racing against Weber, that the tables have turned and Mercedes, by jumping well ahead of the other constructors is, at least potentially, on their way to creating a new champion in Hamilton? And, if that's the case, does "winning the title" really tell the story of who the best driver is?

Simple metrics don't necessarily equal objective metrics. Sometimes they just turn out to be arbitrary metrics.

MKSGR:

The title is the title. Those who don't win them will always search for excuses. To win a title is always difficult 

The more titles the better the driver. Every other benchmark is highly subjective, I feel 

That would be true of other sports were the results are exclusively dependant on the person participating, like running or swimming, but in motorsports, the vehicle plays an important part of the result and more so in F1, were 80% or more is down to the car.

In F1, being able to drive one car or another on the race will be the mayor determinant of the points the "driver" will win, more even than the driver factor, and since the driver's championship is dependant solely on the accumulation of those points, you cannot derive that who ever has the most points at the end of the season is the best driver.

You can only say that he was the best "driver-car combination" of the season, and with the car being the biggest variable of the two it tells you more about the car's performance than the driver. If all the cars were the same you could use it to compare drivers, but in the last three years any driver without a RBR stood no chance of winning since no amount of driving skill could compensate for the difference in performance of the RBR and the rest. And this year we see the same thing but with Mercedes.

fully agree - what me also annoys are the wins's counted against people like Lauda that had at their times only 12 races/year and much less points per win - but then you hear all over the place that driver x has equalized Y with points and wins etc - guess we're getting old and the youth does not recall the old times