Crown

RC:just imagine someone living around Monaco

Well...I can talk about Monaco. It is roughly 2 squared kilometers and when you drive past its borders you have the same problems parking a Huracan on the street as you would everywhere else.

In fact, parking an "exotic" in Monaco is quite terrible as it's always full of tourists ready to take a picture of themselves sitting on your bonnet

The best means of transportation in Monaco is walking.

I think that most people who can afford a Turbo can also afford more "exotic" alternatives. This was always true. IMVHO picking a Turbo over an equivalent Ferrari/Lambo has always been a "philosophical" choice rather than one made with the wallet.

Despite of this, we must not forget that the Turbo S comes loaded with most relevant options and my ideal spec is 208K (not much over the base price). The 458/Huracan easily need 30/40K of options on top of the base price. Therefore, the Turbo still has the price advantage. The Turbo got much more expensive in the recent years, but so did the competition.

Therefore, I agree that the competition for the Turbo is greater than ever and that Porsche should be careful. But I also think that the Turbo offers a unique package with no true competition for those those that value all it has to offer.

I love the design of the Huracan. If a supercar looks equally good in orange, white and dark grey, it means that the designers have done an excellent job.

I would readily choose it over a Ferrari 458 or a McLaren, but the decision over a Turbo S wouldn't be as easy.

Besides, I fancy the VW Group connection

--

"Form follows function"

FlatSix911:

But I also think that the Turbo offers a unique package with no true competition for those those that value all it has to offer.

 

I agree, otherwise I wouldn't have gotten one but I still have a hard time to understand why Porsche couldn't add a few horses. This is actually the only thing I have to complaint about.

Last time I talked to someone involved with Turbo S development, I mentioned (again ) that I would love to have more power. The answer was surprising: "I expected you to get used to this kind of power fast, the car seems not to take a sweat with 560 hp". So why haven't they added some more power?    Yes, I get it...I would probably get used to 700 hp too, like many other drivers also but especially when going straight, the car could easily use 50 horses more. Just saying.

I know that Porsche is preparing more power but I doubt there will be a power kit and the facelift isn't really helpful for someone who bought the car (luckily, I didn't).

You know what I would love to see from Porsche? A free power upgrade, like McLaren did with the 12C. Even if they would add only 20 or 30 hp for free, it would be a sign of true customer appreciation. Never going to happen from Porsche I'm afraid but sometimes, people can dream, right?! 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)

reginos:

I love the design of the Huracan. If a supercar looks equally good in orange, white and dark grey, it means that the designers have done an excellent job.

I would readily choose it over a Ferrari 458 or a McLaren, but the decision over a Turbo S wouldn't be as easy.

Besides, I fancy the VW Group connection

I agree. I think the Huracan looks great and I would take one over a 458 in a heartbeat.

However, I also think that the Turbo S is a completely different value proposition.

The Huracan is a great toy. The Turbo is a great car.

The Turbo does not look "silly" at a business meeting, you can park it on the street without attracting too much attention, it will not look out place at any black tie dinner nor at the supermarket and it will entertain you on every drive.

If you want the Swiss Knife of sportscars, than the Turbo is still "the one."

RC- I agree with what you say. However, this is more relevant for you living in Germany. Even driving in Italy is not as "liberal" as it used to be.

FlatSix911:

RC- I agree with what you say. However, this is more relevant for you living in Germany. Even driving in Italy is not as "liberal" as it used to be.

The "standard" power of super sports cars is 600+ hp nowadays. When sedans like a BMW M5 or a Mercedes E63 AMG have almost 600 hp, Porsche cannot give their top of the line 911 less or similar power. Look at the Huracan, the next GT-R top model, the next R8 and others. 600 hp at minimum are a must. I get it, the current 991 Turbo S engine is kind of at it's power peak with 600 hp but there are always possibilities. I am not complaining about weight or the chassis or whatever, it is just the official power figure.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)

RC:

FlatSix911:

But I also think that the Turbo offers a unique package with no true competition for those those that value all it has to offer.

 

I agree, otherwise I wouldn't have gotten one but I still have a hard time to understand why Porsche couldn't add a few horses. This is actually the only thing I have to complaint about.

Last time I talked to someone involved with Turbo S development, I mentioned (again ) that I would love to have more power. The answer was surprising: "I expected you to get used to this kind of power fast, the car seems not to take a sweat with 560 hp". So why haven't they added some more power?    Yes, I get it...I would probably get used to 700 hp too, like many other drivers also but especially when going straight, the car could easily use 50 horses more. Just saying.

I know that Porsche is preparing more power but I doubt there will be a power kit and the facelift isn't really helpful for someone who bought the car (luckily, I didn't).

You know what I would love to see from Porsche? A free power upgrade, like McLaren did with the 12C. Even if they would add only 20 or 30 hp for free, it would be a sign of true customer appreciation. Never going to happen from Porsche I'm afraid but sometimes, people can dream, right?! 

Is it in the interest of reliability or fuel efficiency? What do Porsche say?

RUF bring 650 HP out of this engine.

"Form follows function"

reginos:

RC:

FlatSix911:

But I also think that the Turbo offers a unique package with no true competition for those those that value all it has to offer.

 

I agree, otherwise I wouldn't have gotten one but I still have a hard time to understand why Porsche couldn't add a few horses. This is actually the only thing I have to complaint about.

Last time I talked to someone involved with Turbo S development, I mentioned (again ) that I would love to have more power. The answer was surprising: "I expected you to get used to this kind of power fast, the car seems not to take a sweat with 560 hp". So why haven't they added some more power?    Yes, I get it...I would probably get used to 700 hp too, like many other drivers also but especially when going straight, the car could easily use 50 horses more. Just saying.

I know that Porsche is preparing more power but I doubt there will be a power kit and the facelift isn't really helpful for someone who bought the car (luckily, I didn't).

You know what I would love to see from Porsche? A free power upgrade, like McLaren did with the 12C. Even if they would add only 20 or 30 hp for free, it would be a sign of true customer appreciation. Never going to happen from Porsche I'm afraid but sometimes, people can dream, right?! 

Is it in the interest of reliability or fuel efficiency? What do Porsche say?

RUF bring 650 HP out of this engine.

Apparently it has something to do with the limited size of the fuel injectors and the possible fuel pressure.

RUF does not bring 650 hp out of this engine and if they do (which I doubt), they are not using VTG chargers.

Also don't forget that the new 991 Turbo/S engine fulfills EURO 6, the strictest emissions law in Europe.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)

RC:

reginos:

RC:

FlatSix911:

But I also think that the Turbo offers a unique package with no true competition for those those that value all it has to offer.

 

I agree, otherwise I wouldn't have gotten one but I still have a hard time to understand why Porsche couldn't add a few horses. This is actually the only thing I have to complaint about.

Last time I talked to someone involved with Turbo S development, I mentioned (again ) that I would love to have more power. The answer was surprising: "I expected you to get used to this kind of power fast, the car seems not to take a sweat with 560 hp". So why haven't they added some more power?    Yes, I get it...I would probably get used to 700 hp too, like many other drivers also but especially when going straight, the car could easily use 50 horses more. Just saying.

I know that Porsche is preparing more power but I doubt there will be a power kit and the facelift isn't really helpful for someone who bought the car (luckily, I didn't).

You know what I would love to see from Porsche? A free power upgrade, like McLaren did with the 12C. Even if they would add only 20 or 30 hp for free, it would be a sign of true customer appreciation. Never going to happen from Porsche I'm afraid but sometimes, people can dream, right?! 

Is it in the interest of reliability or fuel efficiency? What do Porsche say?

RUF bring 650 HP out of this engine.

Apparently it has something to do with the limited size of the fuel injectors and the possible fuel pressure.

RUF does not bring 650 hp out of this engine and if they do (which I doubt), they are not using VTG chargers.

Also don't forget that the new 991 Turbo/S engine fulfills EURO 6, the strictest emissions law in Europe.

RUF advertise their RT35 at 630 hp and their RT35 S at 650 hp from the 3800cc turbo engine with twin VTGs.

Of course the price is ridiculous at 300.000 EUR before extras and there is no mention of CO2 and fuel consumption!

"Form follows function"

RC:

FlatSix911:

RC- I agree with what you say. However, this is more relevant for you living in Germany. Even driving in Italy is not as "liberal" as it used to be.

The "standard" power of super sports cars is 600+ hp nowadays. When sedans like a BMW M5 or a Mercedes E63 AMG have almost 600 hp, Porsche cannot give their top of the line 911 less or similar power. Look at the Huracan, the next GT-R top model, the next R8 and others. 600 hp at minimum are a must. I get it, the current 991 Turbo S engine is kind of at it's power peak with 600 hp but there are always possibilities. I am not complaining about weight or the chassis or whatever, it is just the official power figure.

Fair enough. Again, I can agree with you.

However, this is a criticism that could also have been raised to the 996/997 Turbos. Both had comparable HP numbers to contemporary fast saloons.

I wonder if the flat 8 (in existence and turbocharged) fits the 991 chassis and how it affects its weight distribution.

This engine might be the answer to the power deficits of flat-six turbo models since the 996.

"Form follows function"

Huracan in Geneva.  Color, front and side design is good, rear is bulky, layered, way too complicated and plastic-like for me.

Wonderbar:

Huracan in Geneva.  Color, front and side design is good, rear is bulky, layered, way too complicated and plastic-like for me.

Hmm, I rather like that rear (as well as the whole rest of the car).

--

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

reginos:

 

RUF advertise their RT35 at 630 hp and their RT35 S at 650 hp from the 3800cc turbo engine with twin VTGs.

Of course the price is ridiculous at 300.000 EUR before extras and there is no mention of CO2 and fuel consumption!

I don't know this car, I also haven't seen any review yet. It remains to be seen if it really is faster than the stock Turbo...straight line. On the track, I assume the RUF has no chance since it apparently lacks the new AWD/PTM and AWS. We also don't know if RUF uses the stock VTG chargers.

The current DFI engine power output is limited by fuel injector size and fuel pressure. I have my doubts RUF found a solution (but you never should say never ). Nobody can really verify if the RUF engines have 600 or 610 or 630 or 650 hp...if you get my point). I don't say RUF is lying, my experience with RUF in the past has been very good. 

From the past experience with DFI Turbo engines (look at various Tuner 997.2 Turbo/S cars tested by Sport Auto in the past) however, power claims and real world performance are very different. 

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)

Rossi:

Wonderbar:

Huracan in Geneva.  Color, front and side design is good, rear is bulky, layered, way too complicated and plastic-like for me.

Hmm, I rather like that rear (as well as the whole rest of the car).

--

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

I don't like the huge silver exhaust pipes (black would look great though) and I don't like the silver rims (again...black would be great or at least some sort of gunmetal color). Other than that, the car looks really good.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)

RC, I agree with you on the round pipes. Round just doesn't work with the design. Pipes like the TTS or AMGs would fit the edgy design much better.

2013 BMW 750 xDrive & 2012 x5 & 2014 991 TTS Cab. Range Rover V8 on order June14 - GT3 or Huracan to add next......decisions decisions decisions.....

RC:

Rossi:

Wonderbar:

Huracan in Geneva.  Color, front and side design is good, rear is bulky, layered, way too complicated and plastic-like for me.

Hmm, I rather like that rear (as well as the whole rest of the car).

--

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

I don't like the huge silver exhaust pipes (black would look great though) and I don't like the silver rims (again...black would be great or at least some sort of gunmetal color). Other than that, the car looks really good.

Both are available on Huracan option list.

RC:

Not sure if the price tag has already been posted but there is a rumor that the new Huracan will start around 201k EUR. This is only 4k EUR more than the 991 Turbo S base price. Ouch. So basically, they have the same price tag. This is going to be a problem for Porsche in certain markets.

Base price in the UK including delivery etc and VAT will be just under £187K. Plenty of scope to addd to that with extras though!

I doubt it will be that close to the TTS, but who knows. I know I sure as hell wouldn't even consider a TTS is a Huracan was the same price. I really doubt many other than hardcore 911 fans would either.

What was the Gallardo Turbo S price spread before?  Is it any different from current spread (which no one really knows yet in any event)?

And, maybe I am missing something, but have performance comparisons come out?

I like everything about the Huracan it has a stance that puts competition to shame, wouldn´t change a thing on this grey /tan car they had in show. Apart from driving position for tall guys, this car is perfect. Price in Portugal with few options is 280K and turbo S with options goes for 240K eur 

Here´s a pic I took 

--

J.Seven

I'd say the difference in price between a 997 Turbo S and a nice Gallardo was $80-100K.

Ok so a big difference...talking to my local Lamborghini dealer next week so will be interesting what they say. 

2013 BMW 750 xDrive & 2012 x5 & 2014 991 TTS Cab. Range Rover V8 on order June14 - GT3 or Huracan to add next......decisions decisions decisions.....

noone1:

I'd say the difference in price between a 997 Turbo S and a nice Gallardo was $80-100K.

That is true in the US, as Porsches are priced much lower then in Europe .  On the other hand Lambo and Ferraris are about equally priced on both continents.

 997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

Some impressive numbers

+ 50% downforce than Gallardo

+ 50% chassi rigidity than Gallardo

100% RWD if necessary (not manualy)

75% of Torque available at 1000RPM

31,9Mts from 100-0 Kph

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itJ6QwiCg2E

J.Seven

Impressive relatively speaking, perhaps. Hard to say whether they are actually impressive without knowing the previous ones. 50% greater downforce than bad still might not be good. I'm sure the car will be great -- what modern exotic isn't? -- but I'm not sure it will be the cream of the crop.

100% RWD when necessary? Wouldn't you actually want 0% AWD unless necessary?

75% torque from 1000 RPM is nice, but kind of irrelevant in that the V10 is revs pretty high and will rarely be at such a low RPM in real usage.

31.9 m stopping distance is good, but nothing new.

I don't think the car will blow anyone's mind in terms of performance, but I'm sure it will sell well due to the pent up demand for a new Lamborghini in the segment. People have been waiting for a fresh car for at least 3 years it seems. LP560 was nice, but not really a big enough change.

For reference, the LP560 claimed 20kg on the front and 50kg on the rear for downforce at the top end. Sport Auto did the Supertest and recorded 4kg lift at the front and 32kg downforce at the rear at 124mph.

To compare with a 12C (since I have one :) and because it's the cream of the crop performance wise these days):

McLaren claims 120kg of downforce (not sure about the split between front/rear) at 186 mph. With the MSO front-end I think they claim 100kg more. Sport Auto showed 4kg at the front and 62kg at the rear at 124mph. McLaren also states that the 650S will generate 24% more downforce at 150mph than the 12C.

Keep in mind Sport Auto do not simulate ground effects from what I've heard, so take it for what it's worth.

These numbers are pretty meaningless outside of the track, but still some food for thought.

This doesn't look like the regular Huracan to me...

http://www.worldcarfans.com/114041773549/lamborghinis-latest-bull-is-thirsty-as-huracan-runs-out

2013 BMW 750 xDrive & 2012 x5 & 2014 991 TTS Cab. Range Rover V8 on order June14 - GT3 or Huracan to add next......decisions decisions decisions.....

Probably just a test mule.

FlatSix911:

Probably just a test mule.

A bit late in the cycle for a development mule to be circling a test track.  The spider version is rumored to feature different fascias, front and rear, so this could be another variant.