Crown

Porsche AG press release: "Porsche to replace engines of current 911 GT3 models"

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(18 March 2014)

Stuttgart. Sports car manufacturer Porsche will be replacing the engines of all 911 GT3 vehicles of model year 2014. This is the corrective action derived from intensive internal analyses that were initiated in response to two engine fires. Meanwhile, it has been confirmed that engine damage resulted from a loosened screw joint on the connecting rod. The loose connecting rod damaged the crankcase, which in both cases led to leakage of oil which then ignited.

After becoming aware of the two accident cases, Porsche promptly took action to avoid any risk to customers by advising them to cease using the affected 785 vehicles until further notice and have them picked up by a Porsche Centre. Now, engines with optimised screw fittings will be used in all Porsche 911 GT3 vehicles of model year 2014 – including in those that have not been delivered yet. The relevant Porsche Centres are in direct communication with customers worldwide to discuss the further course of action.

Porsche points out that no other 911 models or other model series are affected by this action.

- GO -

Porsche to replace engines of current 911 GT3 models -- Porsche press release

Now it only matters how skilled Porsche (and their dealers) are to make the wait for affected customers (especially those who already took delivery of a GT3) acceptable. This is where one can draw the line between a "good" company and a "bad" one. Hopefully Porsche understands this. This is all about reputation and customer confidence now, nothing else. No matter how high the cost.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)

911rox:

^^^ Many had light oil weepage and drips from the RMS but massive leaks were the exception, not the norm... 

RMS leakage and coolant fitting failures were just more examples of a complete disregard by Porsche for their customers with fixes so easy yet ignored iteration after iteration... 

I'm not sure where you studied statistics, but 2 fires in ~800 cars doesn't exactly make it "the norm". It's not like there are any facts available that indicate that all or even most engines are affected. In fact, there's absolutely nothing we know that supports the notion that the problem was caused by design flaws or engineering mistakes as opposed to a quality issue with parts or assembly. What facts we do have -- i.e., that these were very low mileage cars, that the majority of cars, many of which have much greater mileage, have experienced no problems -- point in exactly the opposite direction you indicate.

The phrase "a complete disregard by Porsche for their customers" also seems unjustified. They communicated with their customers, if not the public at large, chose the best possible solution for the customers (and, again, we don't have facts to indicate they were all even affected) and seem to be doing everything possible to make things right for the owners. Again, that seems the opposite of "complete disregard". If you want an example of what "complete disregard" is, GM's handling of its ignition switch problems fits the bill.

I think they've handled the situation about as well as possible, despite the attempts of so many to fan the fires of hysteria and prophesy the company's doom. 

watt:

... the "world's most profitable car company" has to cut corners to be so.

Apple is the world's most profitable computer company and the world's most profitable smartphone company, and while they do have some of the lowest manufacturing costs in those industries, that doesn't come from cutting corners; their products have probably the highest build quality in their respective categories.

Porsche CEO Müller made the following key points in an interview with German car magazine AMS (to be published tomorrow, excerpts on their website):

1.E-powered next generation sports car is conceivable, provided range can be extended to 300-400 km  

2 Launch of GT3 RS likely to be delayed until GT3 engine problems are fully resolved, summer launch no longer likely. 

3. Production of next generation Cayenne to be moved entirely to Bratislava

4. Production of next generation Panamera to be moved entirely to Leipzig 

olli:

Porsche CEO Müller made the following key points in an interview with German car magazine AMS (to be published tomorrow, excerpts on their website):

1.E-powered next generation sports car is conceivable, provided range can be extended to 300-400 km  

2 Launch of GT3 RS likely to be delayed until GT3 engine problems are fully resolved, summer launch no longer likely. 

3. Production of next generation Cayenne to be moved entirely to Bratislava

4. Production of next generation Panamera to be moved entirely to Leipzig 

ad 1) good thing
ad 2) as expected
ad 3) don't like that
ad 4) good thing

--

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

It would mean Porsche has confirmed that the GT3RS will indeed be based on the GT3 engine. None of this will-it-be-turbo-and-be-called-GT2RS nonsense. Thank goodness for that!!!

olli:

2 Launch of GT3 RS likely to be delayed until GT3 engine problems are fully resolved, summer launch no longer likely. 

997TT RS Tuning stage II(sold),2011 Cayenne Turbo(sold),waiting 991 GT3 RS

WAY:

It would mean Porsche has confirmed that the GT3RS will indeed be based on the GT3 engine. None of this will-it-be-turbo-and-be-called-GT2RS nonsense. Thank goodness for that!!!

Not sure you can conclude that.  RC has hinted that the GT2RS (or whatever it's called) might be a turbocharged version of the GT3 motor (rather than just a turbocharged version of the Carrera motor, which is largely what the current Turbo is).

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

olli:

3. Production of next generation Cayenne to be moved entirely to Bratislava

Quite sad if true: http://spectator.sme.sk/articles/view/53358/10/porsche_to_move_cayenne_suv_production_to_slovakia.html

Grant:

WAY:

It would mean Porsche has confirmed that the GT3RS will indeed be based on the GT3 engine. None of this will-it-be-turbo-and-be-called-GT2RS nonsense. Thank goodness for that!!!

Not sure you can conclude that.  RC has hinted that the GT2RS (or whatever it's called) might be a turbocharged version of the GT3 motor (rather than just a turbocharged version of the Carrera motor, which is largely what the current Turbo is).

I think that WAY is absolutely correct..

Probably Porsche will do a GT2 RS in addition (!) to the GT3 RS.

The GT3 RS prototypes are 100.0% not turbo-charged. I studied this stuff, trust me ;)

hzoenvy33:

Grant:

WAY:

It would mean Porsche has confirmed that the GT3RS will indeed be based on the GT3 engine. None of this will-it-be-turbo-and-be-called-GT2RS nonsense. Thank goodness for that!!!

Not sure you can conclude that.  RC has hinted that the GT2RS (or whatever it's called) might be a turbocharged version of the GT3 motor (rather than just a turbocharged version of the Carrera motor, which is largely what the current Turbo is).

I think that WAY is absolutely correct..

Probably Porsche will do a GT2 RS in addition (!) to the GT3 RS.

The GT3 RS prototypes are 100.0% not turbo-charged. I studied this stuff, trust me ;)

Yes, that is the most likely result - glad to hear it.  I hope any potential GT2 or GT2 RS does use GT3 engine as its basis though...

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

Grant:

hzoenvy33:

Grant:

WAY:

It would mean Porsche has confirmed that the GT3RS will indeed be based on the GT3 engine. None of this will-it-be-turbo-and-be-called-GT2RS nonsense. Thank goodness for that!!!

Not sure you can conclude that.  RC has hinted that the GT2RS (or whatever it's called) might be a turbocharged version of the GT3 motor (rather than just a turbocharged version of the Carrera motor, which is largely what the current Turbo is).

I think that WAY is absolutely correct..

Probably Porsche will do a GT2 RS in addition (!) to the GT3 RS.

The GT3 RS prototypes are 100.0% not turbo-charged. I studied this stuff, trust me ;)

Yes, that is the most likely result - glad to hear it.  I hope any potential GT2 or GT2 RS does use GT3 engine as its basis though...

Hm, I'm not sure but wasn't the GT2 always based on the turbo? I think it's probably easier to increase the power of a turbo (I think in the 997 GT2 RS it was higher pressure and maybe larer intercoolers?) than strap a turbo on the GT3 engine.

Has anyone an idea what the highest revving turbo-charged engines are out there? I can't imagine that they will make a 9k rpm turbo, that probably isn't going very well :)

McLaren MP4 is high revving turbo, 8.5k

hzoenvy33:

Grant:

hzoenvy33:

Grant:

WAY:

It would mean Porsche has confirmed that the GT3RS will indeed be based on the GT3 engine. None of this will-it-be-turbo-and-be-called-GT2RS nonsense. Thank goodness for that!!!

Not sure you can conclude that.  RC has hinted that the GT2RS (or whatever it's called) might be a turbocharged version of the GT3 motor (rather than just a turbocharged version of the Carrera motor, which is largely what the current Turbo is).

I think that WAY is absolutely correct..

Probably Porsche will do a GT2 RS in addition (!) to the GT3 RS.

The GT3 RS prototypes are 100.0% not turbo-charged. I studied this stuff, trust me ;)

Yes, that is the most likely result - glad to hear it.  I hope any potential GT2 or GT2 RS does use GT3 engine as its basis though...

Hm, I'm not sure but wasn't the GT2 always based on the turbo? I think it's probably easier to increase the power of a turbo (I think in the 997 GT2 RS it was higher pressure and maybe larer intercoolers?) than strap a turbo on the GT3 engine.

Has anyone an idea what the highest revving turbo-charged engines are out there? I can't imagine that they will make a 9k rpm turbo, that probably isn't going very well :)

The GT2/RS was always a true dry sump (Mezger) motor, even after the Turbo went to integrated dry sump 9A1.  The highest revving turbo motors currently are the McLarens I think (8,500 rpm)

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

Grant:

hzoenvy33:

Grant:

hzoenvy33:

Grant:

WAY:

It would mean Porsche has confirmed that the GT3RS will indeed be based on the GT3 engine. None of this will-it-be-turbo-and-be-called-GT2RS nonsense. Thank goodness for that!!!

Not sure you can conclude that.  RC has hinted that the GT2RS (or whatever it's called) might be a turbocharged version of the GT3 motor (rather than just a turbocharged version of the Carrera motor, which is largely what the current Turbo is).

I think that WAY is absolutely correct..

Probably Porsche will do a GT2 RS in addition (!) to the GT3 RS.

The GT3 RS prototypes are 100.0% not turbo-charged. I studied this stuff, trust me ;)

Yes, that is the most likely result - glad to hear it.  I hope any potential GT2 or GT2 RS does use GT3 engine as its basis though...

Hm, I'm not sure but wasn't the GT2 always based on the turbo? I think it's probably easier to increase the power of a turbo (I think in the 997 GT2 RS it was higher pressure and maybe larer intercoolers?) than strap a turbo on the GT3 engine.

Has anyone an idea what the highest revving turbo-charged engines are out there? I can't imagine that they will make a 9k rpm turbo, that probably isn't going very well :)

The GT2/RS was always a true dry sump (Mezger) motor, even after the Turbo went to integrated dry sump 9A1.  The highest revving turbo motors currently are the McLarens I think (8,500 rpm)

There were discussions that the 991 GT2 RS could include "KERS boost" as part of the powertrain...

Grant:

 

The GT2/RS was always a true dry sump (Mezger) motor, even after the Turbo went to integrated dry sump 9A1.  The highest revving turbo motors currently are the McLarens I think (8,500 rpm)

Thing is, McLaren is a 3.8 V8, Porsche is a 3.8 flat 6. So pistons are a lot smaller and lighter in the McLaren, easier to rev higher. 

Mullh:

well, the car is  about 3 seconds slower and has a similar power/weight… and corner speeds only tell half the story (especially in tight turns)… a front-midengine car has to be driven differently to a rear engine car (i.e. carrying more speed through corner vs v. late apex, sharp turn in and applying throttle early on a RR car in tight corners) .. and hence also much higher peak velocity on the straight (slower turn in, earlier on the throttle -> higher speed) …  and as you said, in the more fluent direction changes the GT3 murdered the C7 … and tbh… on a track, where there are about 10 - 12 turns and one only has data of 4 turns - and their low-peak velocity - … well one can't really draw a conclusion out of that alone xD … if we had sector times or at least onboard footage we could look at the corners more closely but we haven't… at the end there is a difference of almost 3 seconds and thats what counts … or look for example at the Carrera S speeds… is the 991S as fast as the Gt3 through corners and in some even a lot quicker? Nope, just these speeds just tell one almost nothing xD

okay, the tires of the GT3 were better… but the PSS ZP for the Corvette are also not too bad and over a single 1.5 min lap the difference aint 3 seconds… on the other hand the Stingray was quicker than the 3.8 RS (which was on Cups) and that is a great achievement too … 

++++++++

You apparently have no respect for coypright of this great Magazine.  You repeatedly publish entires copies of pages of this magazine. Is it because it is not German?

I hope the moderators on this forum keep on eye on this.

DJC:

I don't get it  where the hell did you get that they are replacing the engines???

i wish you guys would stop speculating and spreading all this crap!!!!

until I get a phone call from Porsche ,I'm not buying your crap 

+++++++++++++++

And what would you say today!

Whoopsy:

Grant:

 

The GT2/RS was always a true dry sump (Mezger) motor, even after the Turbo went to integrated dry sump 9A1.  The highest revving turbo motors currently are the McLarens I think (8,500 rpm)

 

Thing is, McLaren is a 3.8 V8, Porsche is a 3.8 flat 6. So pistons are a lot smaller and lighter in the McLaren, easier to rev higher. 

 

That is true, but 911 motors are very over-square (the stroke is much shorter than the bore is wide), so piston speeds are not that high, compared to other motors with large cylinders of 633cc).  Mclaren also takes this approach, which is rare for a turbo motor (but its cylinders are only 475cc).

458 Speciale has set the new standard for redlines though - 9,200 rpm (with much longer stroke than either GT3 or 12C), so really high piston speeds.  Something for the GT3 RS to shoot towards if they want more power from the same 3.8L.

--

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

458 Speciale: 9.200 rpm??

nberry:

I am really having a problem with this. 

I bought a new car and I expect a new car to be delivered to me not one which has had its engine replaced. In my view that is no longer a new car. It left the factory with a substantial defect and for Porsche to say we will fix it and sell it to you as new I have difficulty swallowing. If my car while being loaded fell into the ocean and immediately recover dried out by Porsche would it be right for Porsche to deliver it to me saying it is like new?

I find that offensive.

+++++++++++++

Try and obtain from your dealer the cancellation of the sale and your money back.

igirl:

458 Speciale: 9.200 rpm??

Yep, with a long stroke of 81mm (12C has only 69mm stroke and GT3 is just over 80mm).  GT3 has by far biggest bore which adds to piston mass, but velocity is much more critical than mass as force = mass x velocity squared.

 EDIT: I am wrong - redline of 458S is also 9k, so piston speeds just a little higher than GT3 (with lighter pistons)...

--

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

olli:

3. Production of next generation Cayenne to be moved entirely to Bratislava

4. Production of next generation Panamera to be moved entirely to Leipzig 

Good indicator of authenticity.

The true Porsches will be made in Stuttgart

Their next relatives i.e fast limousines still in Germany, but in old DDR

The most removed specimens i.e. the SUVs will be expelled to a Slovak location

"Form follows function"

frayed:

911rox:

RC:

I understand humor but whoever posted this on the internet, should remove it as fast as possible (or at least remove that Porsche crest from this). Porsche law department doesn't have any humor when it comes to using their copyrighted insignia for such jokes and this could blow up in the face of whoever wanted to make the joke. Just a friendly advice.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)

RC, I'm pretty sure Porsche's lawyers have far more serious things to contend with than some goofy letter posted on a forum for a laugh amongst owners who are clearly frustrated with their situation and Porsche's silence on the matter... Just saying, not looking to start an argument over it...

You might be surprised how aggressive companies like Porsche enforce the intellectual property rights.  Additionally, the internal lawyers responsible for policing their trademarks/service marks aren't the ones dealing with dealing with consequent legalities relating to the GT3. 

++++++++++++++++++

It would be fun if they did what you suggest because they would make a fool of themselves, prove that they have no sense of humour, let alone providing even more publicity to an embarrassing situation.

apias:

911rox:

^^^ Many had light oil weepage and drips from the RMS but massive leaks were the exception, not the norm... 

RMS leakage and coolant fitting failures were just more examples of a complete disregard by Porsche for their customers with fixes so easy yet ignored iteration after iteration... 

I'm not sure where you studied statistics, but 2 fires in ~800 cars doesn't exactly make it "the norm". It's not like there are any facts available that indicate that all or even most engines are affected. In fact, there's absolutely nothing we know that supports the notion that the problem was caused by design flaws or engineering mistakes as opposed to a quality issue with parts or assembly. What facts we do have -- i.e., that these were very low mileage cars, that the majority of cars, many of which have much greater mileage, have experienced no problems -- point in exactly the opposite direction you indicate.

The phrase "a complete disregard by Porsche for their customers" also seems unjustified. They communicated with their customers, if not the public at large, chose the best possible solution for the customers (and, again, we don't have facts to indicate they were all even affected) and seem to be doing everything possible to make things right for the owners. Again, that seems the opposite of "complete disregard". If you want an example of what "complete disregard" is, GM's handling of its ignition switch problems fits the bill.

I think they've handled the situation about as well as possible, despite the attempts of so many to fan the fires of hysteria and prophesy the company's doom. 

NEWSFLASH!!!

I used arrows referencing Watt's post about the leaks in previous generations of GT3... When you refuse to fix RMS leaks for 3 models of GT3 and Coolant pipe failures for 4 models of GT3 where simple fixes already existed in the aftermarket, I'd say thats a complete disregard for customers, wouldn't you????

RC:

Well...I tried...don't say I haven't tried.

As to the criticism on the internet: We didn't censor anything here, I was just reminding people to stay focused on facts and not believe everything they read or hear on the internet. I guess however that this is similar to witch hunts: You can ask people to stay calm all day long but at night, the fires are fired up and the smell of burned flesh is in the air.

Maybe I wrongfully assumed that Porsche owners are intellectuals or at least people who are at a higher intellectual level in the food chain but I guess everyone can buy a Porsche nowadays.

I get the anger and the disappointment but everything else related to it, not so much.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)

++++++++++

"Porsche owners are intellectuals or at least people who are at a higher intellectual level in the food chain"?  I am shocked by this writing.  Who are you to write stuff like this?  A lot of people thought and acted on this kind of belief in Germany in the 1930s and later.

RC:

MKSGR:

RC:

The Ferrari F12 was a huge temptation for me. For only 50k more, I could have had a monster engine, monster performance and lots more emotions than in the Porsche.

 

Not more emotions maybe - but different emotions 

No, definetely more emotions. The F12 sounded better, the interior looked better, the smell, the finish, everything looks much more special (just compare the 991 Turbo S to the Boxster S interior and you understand... ). The engine? I don't even know where to start, amazing. Yes, it is a Ferrari but at some point, in the range above 200k EUR, I have to make a decision. If Porsche doesn't understand that the Turbo/S needs a different interior than the regular Carrera for example, then we already have a problem. Porsche even saves money by using the "Turbo" gearbox lever logo instead of a specific Turbo S logo. How crazy is that on a 200+k car?!

Please don't misunderstand me: I love my 991 Turbo S and I will keep it until the lease runs out but I'm not sure I will go for the facelift (with another 20-40 hp more...in three years) or choose something completely different. The 960 could be interesting too but since I guess this is going to be a two seater...

The whole 911 line got too expensive in my opinion. My dealer has Carrera S Coupes for close to 150k EUR. This is insane. Compared to that, a GT3 almost seems like a bargain.

Also, if Porsche introduces these turbo charged Carrera engines, things for the Turbo will look even more grim. Why is this car called "Turbo" again? Look at what happened with the Panamera after a good first run. They switched the V8 on the 4/S to a turbo charged V6 and sales numbers seem to have... Is Porsche serious? I would NEVER pay 130k EUR for a Panamera with a turbo charged V6 engine. Even if it had 600 hp. No kidding.

I could continue on and on but with record sales figures, I doubt Porsche will change anything. So in the end, maybe...MAYBE...I will be forced to move on.

++++++++++++

It seems that you are gradually starting to see the light.

PBS2010:

RC:

Well...I tried...don't say I haven't tried.

As to the criticism on the internet: We didn't censor anything here, I was just reminding people to stay focused on facts and not believe everything they read or hear on the internet. I guess however that this is similar to witch hunts: You can ask people to stay calm all day long but at night, the fires are fired up and the smell of burned flesh is in the air.

Maybe I wrongfully assumed that Porsche owners are intellectuals or at least people who are at a higher intellectual level in the food chain but I guess everyone can buy a Porsche nowadays.

I get the anger and the disappointment but everything else related to it, not so much.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)

++++++++++

"Porsche owners are intellectuals or at least people who are at a higher intellectual level in the food chain"?  I am shocked by this writing.  Who are you to write stuff like this?  A lot of people thought and acted on this kind of belief in Germany in the 1930s and later.

I think RC just made an obvious point: on average wealthy people are more intelligent than poor people. Important amendment: "Average" does not imply that this is always the case. Where is the problem  Just common sense 

911rox:

911rox:

^^^ Many had light oil weepage and drips from the RMS but massive leaks were the exception, not the norm... 

RMS leakage and coolant fitting failures were just more examples of a complete disregard by Porsche for their customers with fixes so easy yet ignored iteration after iteration... 

NEWSFLASH!!!

I used arrows referencing Watt's post about the leaks in previous generations of GT3... When you refuse to fix RMS leaks for 3 models of GT3 and Coolant pipe failures for 4 models of GT3 where simple fixes already existed in the aftermarket, I'd say thats a complete disregard for customers, wouldn't you????

In the context of the discussion, "were just more examples" clearly implied that the current situation is an example of showing "complete disregard". I disagreed and pointed out why. Apparently you've now changed your mind. That's good.