Crown

Thanks Whoopsy and Boytronic...

Milanno:

Looks amazing with wing raised up 

Btw Whoopsy, what color you`ve picked 

--

My new blog with automotive & motorcycle renders: tessoart.blogspot.com

Basalt black on black. Platinum satin wheel. Carbon interior with acid green piping. 

Whoopsy:

 

Basalt black on black. Platinum satin wheel. Carbon interior with acid green piping. 

Yes, yes & yes for exterior color  I wonder why you picked green piping  I got impression that you are hardcore Porsche fan with tactile taste when it comes to styling -  that trendy color is kinda surprise from you 

--

My new blog with automotive & motorcycle renders: tessoart.blogspot.com

Whoopsy:

http://driving.ca/mclaren/p1/reviews/road-test/first-drive-2014-mclaren-p1/

Oh boy, more and more it seems I made the right choice in picking the 918 instead of the P1, seems like the P1 is all smoke and mirror. It is a 727hp petrol power car with 'assistance' from a electric motor 95% of the time. Only time when it will be a 903hp is when it is put in Race mode on a track, and that configuration is illegal on the street.

Also absolutely no regenerative braking.  The ceiling is definitely higher on the 918 and it's future variants.

The brake caliber is that colour. It's is the colour Porsche chooses for to highlight the hybrid technology. The badge at the rear has it as the underlay. The gauges also uses it. If I pick a different accent, then I would have too many colours in my mind on the car as I prefer to keep a car monotone with a uniform accent. I even spec the carbon interior option just to get rid of the silver.

On my Turbo S, it's basalt black on black with yellow stitching to match the yellow caliber. I even had my steering wheel custom made to replace the silver panels with carbon and yellow sticking and had yellow seat belts.

Initially I was afraid of the 'trendy' acid green too, but after I seen it in person I love it. The interior will be almost all black, with a touch of silver left and the green piping on the seats and the trim all around the cockpit. Well my seat belts will also have the acid green trimming too.

Now I understand your choice completely, I would make exact same choice  However, I am surprised that Porsche cant offer you option to pick custom color for badge/calipers/gauges/belts 

My new blog with automotive & motorcycle renders: tessoart.blogspot.com

DaveChapin:

Whoopsy:

http://driving.ca/mclaren/p1/reviews/road-test/first-drive-2014-mclaren-p1/

Oh boy, more and more it seems I made the right choice in picking the 918 instead of the P1, seems like the P1 is all smoke and mirror. It is a 727hp petrol power car with 'assistance' from a electric motor 95% of the time. Only time when it will be a 903hp is when it is put in Race mode on a track, and that configuration is illegal on the street.

Also absolutely no regenerative braking.  The ceiling is definitely higher on the 918 and it's future variants.

The official word is that they didn't want to compromise brake feel. It's a valid argument as Porsche had spent close to a year just fine tuning the brake feel.

Porsche ended up engineered a storage tank in brake system to capture the brake fluid during the initial regen braking phase and release the fluid when mechanical braking is called for. McLaren on the other hand didn't have the resources nor the time to properly tune a regen braking system, they needed to push the car out as fast as possible to boost their balance sheet, in other words they NEED the money now. 

During braking phase or throttle liftoffs, where regen braking is most useful in capturing otherwise wasted energy and turn that into electricity, McLaren actually run the petrol engine and turn the motor into a generator to recharge the battery, so they are using raw energy, i.e. petrol, to make energy. 

Whoopsy Since you`ve made very good (real-world) comparison between P1 & 918, can you bring LaF in game? Is it more similar to P1, or to 918 in terms of used hybrid technology 

My new blog with automotive & motorcycle renders: tessoart.blogspot.com

Certainly.

It has a battery, a motor, and a control unit. It may or may not work, but that's not important as we all know Ferrari owners never drives their cars.

To be more serious, I may not be the one to ask about the LaFerrari, I was never a Ferrari owners nor do I have nay interest in acquiring one as personally I think it's one of the ugliest car design in the last 100 years, my 5 yr old car draw a better super car. 

Futch should be the one to ask about the LaFerrari as he is tight with the factory and has one on order.

Ferrari has released very little about the car, unlike McLaren and Porsche, they had no trouble finding enough buyers for their 'specials'. From what is released, the LaFerrari wasn't able to drive in e-mode, but that may change as some owners saw what the 918 and P1 can do and demanded Ferrari to make it happen. It has 'one' battery, but it's split into 2 separate packaging to be placed on either side of the backbone low to the ground.

The basic hybrid architecture was shown to the public around the same time Porsche shown the 918, Geneva 2010, on the 599 HY-KERS concept car. With a front engine rear transmission layout, there is no place in-between to put the traction motor other than at the end of the transmission.

LaFarreri kept the same design. It's traction motor is attached at the other end of the dual gearbox, interfaced with the drivetrain via one of the 2 input shafts of the gearbox. This differs from the McLaren and Porsche system, Porsche uses a inline design sitting between the motor and the gearbox while the P1 uses a piggyback design where the traction motor interface via the flying wheel like a starter motor. 

Ferrari also employ a second electric motor driven off the same electric grid to run the aux systems, so the 789hp V12 is nor wasting energy driving pumps and stuff. 

Since it has a tiny battery capacity, I believe it will be run just like the P1, where the hybrid system's job is to provide temporary boost of power, not the full time job as in the 918. So the full 950hp is never available full time.

Beyond all this, I have no clue. Even what's written above contains some educated guesses.

Wonderbar:

Hope it's not electric blue, like this P1 i saw in Geneva last week.  This color, and the contrast with black/carbon parts, gives the car a "kit car" look, IMHO.  Note sprung hood latch...

I like how small the McLaren looks on this picture  The color is a matter of taste though 

Your comments are childish and immature to stay polite. You're getting a 918 and are very happy about it, we got that, doesn't mean the P1 and LaF are inferior cars. It's like when you keep writing that Ferrari owners don't drive their cars. It's so irritating!

My car is actually completed completed and ready for collection, but I won't get it before end of May, too busy right now and I'm doing a trip to Maranello to pick it up with some mates and cars, then drive back to the UK via the Alps, should be fun.

I don't know anything about the three cars, I've just been watching the online videos and had chats with Porsche friends like Dumas who said the 918 is nice but too heavy, and Bertolini who says that LaF is ridiculously quick on the track and actually too quick for the road, mixed impressions then... In the meantime I got an F12, the engine is the same as the LaF with a lower redline and no hybrid and fack me it's quick! I mean, I've driven some quick cars, but this is insane and the most amazing thing is how nimble is feels compared to the 599 and the traction, even in second gear, it's remarkable! Awesome interior (everything is clustered in front of the driver to leave a flush and clean dashboard, 458 owners will be familiar with this), it really is epic. Ferraris have always been about their engines, and this is one is really really special. In a world of downsizing, it's just a wonderful breathe of fresh air!

Best road car ever? Probably not the best to drive, but as a complete package, I would say yes.

So the same car with more power and 300kgs less should be pretty bonkers.

C'mon, guys...no need to fight over the best cars in the world.

Congratulations F., the F12 is one of my dream cars.

Don't forget to PM me before you take the Alps route, maybe I can join you for a nice lunch somewhere along the route. My son would love to see the LaFerrari in person (and me too of course).

As to the 918, you should really drive one. It is a wonderful car but of course considering the content of your "garage", you aren't easily impressed. I get that.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)

Seems like Futch is becoming a fan of black Ferrari`s 

My new blog with automotive & motorcycle renders: tessoart.blogspot.com

RC:

C'mon, guys...no need to fight over the best cars in the world.

Congratulations F., the F12 is one of my dream cars.

Don't forget to PM me before you take the Alps route, maybe I can join you for a nice lunch somewhere along the route. My son would love to see the LaFerrari in person (and me too of course).

As to the 918, you should really drive one. It is a wonderful car but of course considering the content of your "garage", you aren't easily impressed. I get that.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)

 Will definitely PM you around mid may. That'd be nice. Finally. After 15 years!

Milanno:

Seems like Futch is becoming a fan of black Ferrari`s 

 It was a brand new car that got cancelled last minute so no choice on spec. But it's pretty nice actually. Black/Black with dark grey wheels, just like my old 599. The deal was good so I grabbed it. I'll get hit for sure (like with all Ferrari V12), but hopefully not too badly. The 599 resale was a traumatic experience.

The only thing I miss are the sport seats, these ones are full electric, so heavier and less support.

Futch:

 Will definitely PM you around mid may. That'd be nice. Finally. After 15 years!

This would be great.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)

Good on ya, Futch.  A close friend has an F12 and says it is spectacular--easy to drive daily and fantastic to put the power down.  And this comes from a guy who has had 12 Ferraris in the past few years, including a Maranello, 458 coupe and Spider. He goes to London this month to see his P1 being built, and his 918 comes in May.  He knows cars and the F12 is right at the top in his mind.

BTW, he is looking for a LaFerrari.  If you have any leads, send me a PM...

MKSGR, you are right about P1 size.  It is very small in real life.  The blue one actually looks bigger in the photo than it really is..

RC:

 

As to the 918, you should really drive one. It is a wonderful car but of course considering the content of your "garage", you aren't easily impressed. I get that.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)

 I am sure the 918 is amazing to drive, it's a Porsche, it's in sports car DNA. It is also for me, the most useable, the most complex and certainly the best one to spend time and long journeys in. A nice optioned one though is very close to a 1 million euros and I am still not convinced about them holding their value. I will see how they move in the second hand market and maybe in a few years time get one. But in the meantime, yes I'd love to test one.

Milanno:

Thoughts 

my eyes !.....my eyes !

Drove the F12 recently, wet, 3 degrees and in race mode  indeed very easy to drive if you are not "racing" it and the sound you only get from a V12. Will drive it again now that the weather is nicer. Same friend is getting the sister car too, so will be fun to see how that drives...

I got an F12, the engine is the same as the LaF with a lower redline and no hybrid and fack me it's quick!

Futch- Congratulations on the F12. I am curious: what do you think of the F12 compared to the 599 GTO as a driving experience?

Futch:

Your comments are childish and immature to stay polite. You're getting a 918 and are very happy about it, we got that, doesn't mean the P1 and LaF are inferior cars. It's like when you keep writing that Ferrari owners don't drive their cars. It's so irritating!

My car is actually completed completed and ready for collection, but I won't get it before end of May, too busy right now and I'm doing a trip to Maranello to pick it up with some mates and cars, then drive back to the UK via the Alps, should be fun.

I don't know anything about the three cars, I've just been watching the online videos and had chats with Porsche friends like Dumas who said the 918 is nice but too heavy, and Bertolini who says that LaF is ridiculously quick on the track and actually too quick for the road, mixed impressions then... In the meantime I got an F12, the engine is the same as the LaF with a lower redline and no hybrid and fack me it's quick! I mean, I've driven some quick cars, but this is insane and the most amazing thing is how nimble is feels compared to the 599 and the traction, even in second gear, it's remarkable! Awesome interior (everything is clustered in front of the driver to leave a flush and clean dashboard, 458 owners will be familiar with this), it really is epic. Ferraris have always been about their engines, and this is one is really really special. In a world of downsizing, it's just a wonderful breathe of fresh air!

Best road car ever? Probably not the best to drive, but as a complete package, I would say yes.

So the same car with more power and 300kgs less should be pretty bonkers.

 

 

Futch, sorry buddy, no need to get the panties in a bunch :)

We know you plan on driving the LaFerrari as much as you can, but out of the 499, how many of them will be driven like yours? Optimistically 15-20 tops. It's a generally accepted joke about Ferraris, especially the halo cars, that don't get driven.

In case you haven't noticed, I have really said anything negative about the LaFerrari other than the styling. It's is definitely not my cup of tea. Looks is a very subjective thing, I think the most beautiful Ferrari is the Enzo yet most think it's the 250GT. Different taste. It's just my opinion. And you have yours and you like the LaFerrari. Just like my brother-in-law who is getting one also. It will also be a great investment, and well worth the price. Even the bespoke argument will be a weak one against the Ferrari as outside of the V12, Ferrari pretty much made a new platform for it. 

P1 on the other hand, while offers amazing performance, is too similar to the 12C. I just cannot see it worth 7 figures. Had it been priced at 500-600k, I would have snap one up without blinking an eye. To this day I still like that car, even though I had canceled my order. In my mind I know how good it will be as my 12C is really one of the best I have driven.

Another thing is, you as a experienced race car driver, is looking for a different attribute in a car than me. I looked for everyday livability and not the last drop of performance. The major knock on the 918 is weight and that has zero bearing on my decisions, especially when the weight issue doesn't show up until the last 2/10 of the performance envelope which I will never get to. To me the first 5/10 is more important as I can get to it everyday, and the 918 has the big advantage there. By the time the last 5/10 come along where the P1 and LaFerrari takes over, I am already way out of my elements.

That F12 is s STRIKING car. Congrats to getting one in addition to the LaFerrari. It looks great in black!

FlatSix911:

I got an F12, the engine is the same as the LaF with a lower redline and no hybrid and fack me it's quick!

 

Futch- Congratulations on the F12. I am curious: what do you think of the F12 compared to the 599 GTO as a driving experience?

My 599 was HGTE, not GTO unfortunately. I suspect the GTO to be more hardcore, more noise, single clutch more brutal gearbox (for me better, I don't like the smoothness of the DSG) and stiffer.

Basically more raw and more fun but less comfy for long distance. I've heard a couple and they sound amazing. I really like it and in the long term they will hold their value better. 

F12 is definitely more GT

Futch, where does Ferrari store your car for two months or do you have to store it? I assume Ferrari will want to be paid prior to storage.

nberry:

Futch, where does Ferrari store your car for two months or do you have to store it? I assume Ferrari will want to be paid prior to storage.

 I hope not! There was no specific completion date nor delivery. Sooner is better than later and I'm sure they have plenty of storage space.

Whoopsy:

http://driving.ca/mclaren/p1/reviews/road-test/first-drive-2014-mclaren-p1/

 

Oh boy, more and more it seems I made the right choice in picking the 918 instead of the P1, seems like the P1 is all smoke and mirror. It is a 727hp petrol power car with 'assistance' from a electric motor 95% of the time. Only time when it will be a 903hp is when it is put in Race mode on a track, and that configuration is illegal on the street.

 

That's wrong. It's 903hp in all modes except electric.

I don't see how it's any different that the Porsche or LF. It's whatever the NA engine + assistance from the electric motor depending on your throttle position.

Futch: Bertolini who says that LaF is ridiculously quick on the track and actually too quick for the road, mixed impressions then...

 

I really do think that all 3 of these cars will be pointless on the road. I have a 12C, which isn't even remotely as quick as these 3, and I can't even rev the car without instantly going way to fast. If these cars are doing 0-200 in 6-7s, and you're likely not at a stand still, it means you're probably already going 80-100 before you give it some throttle. 3 seconds later you're going 120mph.

Anyone car to guess how fast you're going in these three cars at 7000 rpm in 2nd and 3rd? 100mph? 140mph?

noone1:

 

That's wrong. It's 903hp in all modes except electric.

I don't see how it's any different that the Porsche or LF. It's whatever the NA engine + assistance from the electric motor depending on your throttle position.

903hp 'potential'.

McLaren has the IPAS button for extra boost. If the car is already producing max output, that means there is no more reserve for the extra boost.

They have stated the e-motor's primary function is to fill in torque gaps, smooth out power delivery, that means the primary propulsion unit is the petrol engine and the e-motor's output is modulated to supplement the petrol engine.

See it this way, say the engine at 4000rpm produces X lb-ft of torque, and the e-motor is at max output adding 192 lb-ft, at that rpm there is X+192 lb-ft. Where is the reserve when you press the IPAS button? There is none as the e-motor is maxed out. Logical way to think of it is the e-motor is not supplying max output, say at 4000 rpm it is only adding 10 lb-ft.  So when you press the IPAS button, it tells to ECU to boost the e-motor to max and adding 182 lb-ft on top of X+10 lb-ft. There is your instant kick in the pants. In effect the hybrid motor is only working part time.

This is how KERS works in F1. Logical to think McLaren is going the same route.

McLaren hasn't published their output chart, but we can use this old one from the 918 to illustrate. The absolute max output of the drivetrain is the top of the graph, at any given rpm the max power available is well defined, it cannot be breached. So in order to have a 'boost', there has to be a reserve, which also means the max power available is not provided at all times. Think of the front axle e-motor output of the 918 as the 'holdback reserve' in the P1. Pretend the combined output of the 2 motors in the 918 is the output of the e-motor in the P1 and the rear e-motor + the petrol engine output total is what one gets in the P1 before pressing the IPAS button. Then you will understand. 

Porsche doesn't employ a boost button in the 918, so at any given rpm, the combined output of all 3 propulsion sources is available. 

Great write-up Whoopsy. Other than the combined output isn't available over a certain speed in the 918 when the front electric motor disengages. 

the P1 is UP to 903 but most of the time will run around with less power than the 918.

Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region