Crown

frayed:

PBS you are on quite a soap box.  Let me get this straight.  Cup car owners are rich and fat.  Radical, Ariel, BAC, Caterhams are sports cars.  Do I have that right?

Lol. 

reginos:

My defintion is that a sports car is one you drive for the pleasure of driving not necessarily for arriving somewhere. A car you feel like going for a drive without real need or purpose.

Within this defintion we can include everything from the Ariel to Lotus and from Mazda MX5 to Carrera S and from GT3 to Lamborghini or Ferrari or McLaren.

The level of civility, power output, lap times do not come into the equation IMO. There is scale however, ranging from just about road legal cars to well appointed daily drivers from which enthusiasts could choose their own. The common denominator is the fun of driving.

Sports car = You drive for the sport of it, not necessarily as a competitive sport.

Totally agree  That does however not mean that all sports cars are competitors. An Ariel Atom and a Porsche 911 are both sports cars, but not in the same segment. Hence comparing an Arial with a Porsche makes little sense. Even if critical thinkers have a different opinion.

2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE
2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White

reginos:

My defintion is that a sports car is one you drive for the pleasure of driving not necessarily for arriving somewhere. A car you feel like going for a drive without real need or purpose.

Within this defintion we can include everything from the Ariel to Lotus and from Mazda MX5 to Carrera S and from GT3 to Lamborghini or Ferrari or McLaren.

The level of civility, power output, lap times do not come into the equation IMO. There is scale however, ranging from just about road legal cars to well appointed daily drivers from which enthusiasts could choose their own. The common denominator is the fun of driving.

Sports car = You drive for the sport of it, not necessarily as a competitive sport.

That really hits the nail on the head in my opinion.  Very well said.

"Don't worry about avoiding temptation, as you grow older it will avoid you"  Churchill

So, we are expecting Porsche to address the world's media on the GT3 issue next week at Geneva?

RS60 Spyder, 991 GT3 RS pending :)

reginos:

There were plenty of issues long before VW. From chain tensioners to cracking cylinder studs on the air cooled SC and Carrera, serious cylinder head leakages on the 964 etc. Moreover, the notorious RMS and IMS problems afflicted engines engineered before the VW takeover.

Porsche 911s were never 100% reliable contrary to popular belief. Just in the old days very few people owned such cars and news relating to problems didn't interest the many. And there was no internet, too!

Right! The Internet blows everything out of proportion. No Porsche engine I know of was bullet proof (including the various Mezger designs), but one has to realize that these engines pushed the performance envelope in their day. For a bullet proof engine get a Toyota Camry performing much lower in the performance envelope.

--

_________________________________________________________________ 

"Dream as impractical, irrational and unnecessary as that may be... Here's to the Dreamers!" -- Porsche AG.

boytronic:

So, we are expecting Porsche to address the world's media on the GT3 issue next week at Geneva?

The word is the CEO of Porsche will be addressing the media regarding the GT3 at the Geneva show.

nberry:

boytronic:

So, we are expecting Porsche to address the world's media on the GT3 issue next week at Geneva?

The word is the CEO of Porsche will be addressing the media regarding the GT3 at the Geneva show.

Very little chance of that IMO... You don't go onto the world stage to discuss failures affecting a few hundred owners and bring unnecessary attention to the brand... They've got enough attention already and certainly don't want it circulated more than it is...They may give off the cuff updates to shut journalists up but the CEO at Geneva? Surely that's brand suicide discussing failures with a halo product whilst being under the spotlight...

They have just announced that Matthias Müller has been extended for 5 years from 1 Jan 2015. I reckon they did this to distract from the issue at hand and will make this the topic of discussion at Geneva!!

Afternoon fellow petrol heads,

Has there been an official engineering explanation as to the cause of engine failures yet? (i can't say that i'm interested in all the corporate BS)

No. But there is plenty of speculation awesomeness in the past pages of this thread. Enjoy! 

2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE
2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White

911rox:

nberry:

boytronic:

So, we are expecting Porsche to address the world's media on the GT3 issue next week at Geneva?

The word is the CEO of Porsche will be addressing the media regarding the GT3 at the Geneva show.

Very little chance of that IMO... You don't go onto the world stage to discuss failures affecting a few hundred owners and bring unnecessary attention to the brand... They've got enough attention already and certainly don't want it circulated more than it is...They may give off the cuff updates to shut journalists up but the CEO at Geneva? Surely that's brand suicide discussing failures with a halo product whilst being under the spotlight...

I am inclined to agree except that for the very reason you mention about the GT3 being a halo product automotive journalist will press for answers from Porsche.

nberry:

911rox:

nberry:

boytronic:

So, we are expecting Porsche to address the world's media on the GT3 issue next week at Geneva?

The word is the CEO of Porsche will be addressing the media regarding the GT3 at the Geneva show.

Very little chance of that IMO... You don't go onto the world stage to discuss failures affecting a few hundred owners and bring unnecessary attention to the brand... They've got enough attention already and certainly don't want it circulated more than it is...They may give off the cuff updates to shut journalists up but the CEO at Geneva? Surely that's brand suicide discussing failures with a halo product whilst being under the spotlight...

I am inclined to agree except that for the very reason you mention about the GT3 being a halo product automotive journalist will press for answers from Porsche.

And thus why I'd deal with it before Geneva and the world's spotlight being upon me... So only those interest get a response, not the whole world....

AndyP:

Afternoon fellow petrol heads,

Has there been an official engineering explanation as to the cause of engine failures yet? (i can't say that i'm interested in all the corporate BS)

No official statesments so far, but the two one, which caught fire, had a con rod assembly failure.

I am still waiting for getting my GT3 back... And, unfortunately, I haven't yet got the chance to try it on track.

But I have the opportunity to test and drive a 991 Turbo S on road and track!

Here, a quick review.

991 Turbo S
+ very easy to drive everyday
+ great / huge feelings of power (small turbo lag, brakes are genius) and safety (easy to control at the limit)
+ motor sound is... ok
+ room at the back...
- ...but only for storage, not people
- paddle shifters are too long and too soft
- not the most beautiful 991 (I even prefer the C4 or C4S look)
- too expensive (at that price, you can choose a 458, a 12C or a Huracan...!)

991 Turbo S versus 991 GT3
- GT3 is so better in terms of feelings! (steering wheel, 9000 rpm, motor sound...)
- GT3 looks definitively better
- GT3 is a raw / race car, I like it! Not for everyday use but you get a big smile every time you jump in it
- when you have the chance to drive both, you really realize what Porsche did to make the GT3 exceptional... and then, you only want to drive the GT3!
It depends, of course, of what you are looking for. :)

igirl:

I am still waiting for getting my GT3 back... And, unfortunately, I haven't yet got the chance to try it on track.

But I have the opportunity to test and drive a 991 Turbo S on road and track!

Here, a quick review.

991 Turbo S
+ very easy to drive everyday
+ great / huge feelings of power (small turbo lag, brakes are genius) and safety (easy to control at the limit)
+ motor sound is... ok
+ room at the back...
- ...but only for storage, not people
- paddle shifters are too long and too soft
- not the most beautiful 991 (I even prefer the C4 or C4S look)
- too expensive (at that price, you can choose a 458, a 12C or a Huracan...!)

991 Turbo S versus 991 GT3
- GT3 is so better in terms of feelings! (steering wheel, 9000 rpm, motor sound...)
- GT3 looks definitively better
- GT3 is a raw / race car, I like it! Not for everyday use but you get a big smile every time you jump in it
- when you have the chance to drive both, you really realize what Porsche did to make the GT3 exceptional... and then, you only want to drive the GT3!
It depends, of course, of what you are looking for. :)

Uh-Oh.  Hope RC doesn't read this.

991 GT3 incoming, 964 Turbo 3.6, E36 M3 ltw S54 conversion, bunch of other stuff

frayed:

Uh-Oh.  Hope RC doesn't read this.

I'm sure RC will 95% agree with me. ;)

jesse:

AndyP:

Afternoon fellow petrol heads,

Has there been an official engineering explanation as to the cause of engine failures yet? (i can't say that i'm interested in all the corporate BS)

No official statesments so far, but the two one, which caught fire, had a con rod assembly failure.

yup..but I heard today the cars will be back "on the road" in June/July..until then take cruise around the world..

frayed:

igirl:

I am still waiting for getting my GT3 back... And, unfortunately, I haven't yet got the chance to try it on track.

But I have the opportunity to test and drive a 991 Turbo S on road and track!

Here, a quick review.

991 Turbo S
+ very easy to drive everyday
+ great / huge feelings of power (small turbo lag, brakes are genius) and safety (easy to control at the limit)
+ motor sound is... ok
+ room at the back...
- ...but only for storage, not people
- paddle shifters are too long and too soft
- not the most beautiful 991 (I even prefer the C4 or C4S look)
- too expensive (at that price, you can choose a 458, a 12C or a Huracan...!)

991 Turbo S versus 991 GT3
- GT3 is so better in terms of feelings! (steering wheel, 9000 rpm, motor sound...)
- GT3 looks definitively better
- GT3 is a raw / race car, I like it! Not for everyday use but you get a big smile every time you jump in it
- when you have the chance to drive both, you really realize what Porsche did to make the GT3 exceptional... and then, you only want to drive the GT3!
It depends, of course, of what you are looking for. :)

Uh-Oh.  Hope RC doesn't read this.

well I have driven the turbo S as well  - but not the 991 GT3 - but I can compare the turbo S to a 997GT2/GT2RS, you  already summed up the points on the 991 tubo S- few more things:

- sound is good - but not as good as 997 GT2-GT2RS

- of course the car is the better daily driver, no doubt about that, nice finish inside..except for too many buttons on the PCM etc

- power: i havent compared the figures with 997 GT2 - GT2RS - in lower speeds the 991 tubo S feels a bit faster..but my impression was that above 150km/h it looses out to the 997 GT2s..but was just a feeling

- car is stable..but had the feeling that 997 GT2/GT2RS - despite short wheelbase have more areodynamic downforce at the front compared to 991 tubo S. on the 997 GT2 versions you can feel that the car itself is more unstable..but the air downforce "presses it down again"..

- 991 turbo S: you can definately feel the weight, nevertheless, probably the best daily driver out there with 550HP..I havent driven M5, m6 this type of cars..but they would disappoint me for sure...

Otherwise what you say on the turbo S..couldnt agree more..

If it is going to be until the summer then I think we all should consider telling Porsche keep the 14's give us all 2015's.  

frayed:

igirl:

I am still waiting for getting my GT3 back... And, unfortunately, I haven't yet got the chance to try it on track.

But I have the opportunity to test and drive a 991 Turbo S on road and track!

Here, a quick review.

991 Turbo S
+ very easy to drive everyday
+ great / huge feelings of power (small turbo lag, brakes are genius) and safety (easy to control at the limit)
+ motor sound is... ok
+ room at the back...
- ...but only for storage, not people
- paddle shifters are too long and too soft
- not the most beautiful 991 (I even prefer the C4 or C4S look)
- too expensive (at that price, you can choose a 458, a 12C or a Huracan...!)

991 Turbo S versus 991 GT3
- GT3 is so better in terms of feelings! (steering wheel, 9000 rpm, motor sound...)
- GT3 looks definitively better
- GT3 is a raw / race car, I like it! Not for everyday use but you get a big smile every time you jump in it
- when you have the chance to drive both, you really realize what Porsche did to make the GT3 exceptional... and then, you only want to drive the GT3!
It depends, of course, of what you are looking for. :)

Uh-Oh.  Hope RC doesn't read this.

2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE
2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White

igirl:

I am still waiting for getting my GT3 back... And, unfortunately, I haven't yet got the chance to try it on track.

But I have the opportunity to test and drive a 991 Turbo S on road and track!

Here, a quick review.

991 Turbo S
+ very easy to drive everyday
+ great / huge feelings of power (small turbo lag, brakes are genius) and safety (easy to control at the limit)
+ motor sound is... ok
+ room at the back...
- ...but only for storage, not people
- paddle shifters are too long and too soft
- not the most beautiful 991 (I even prefer the C4 or C4S look)
- too expensive (at that price, you can choose a 458, a 12C or a Huracan...!)

991 Turbo S versus 991 GT3
- GT3 is so better in terms of feelings! (steering wheel, 9000 rpm, motor sound...)
- GT3 looks definitively better
- GT3 is a raw / race car, I like it! Not for everyday use but you get a big smile every time you jump in it
- when you have the chance to drive both, you really realize what Porsche did to make the GT3 exceptional... and then, you only want to drive the GT3!
It depends, of course, of what you are looking for. :)

Very curious what you are going to think about it if you drive it for a longer period of time and then get back in the 991 GT3. Usually I get very fast used to torque. So my guess is you'll miss that. (It would be the only thing though  )

They gave me a Cayenne V6 as a loaner so you should consider yourself lucky to have the 991 Turbo S.

Hopefully back soon! But it does start to get annoying. Porsche should definitely do some compensation IMHO. (And even more for those who have to spend their time in a Cayenne V6 instead of their new 991 GT3)

--

- HS (Belgium)  -  '14 Porsche 991 GT3 (oct build) - '06 BMW 335I Coupe  

igirl:

frayed:

Uh-Oh.  Hope RC doesn't read this.

I'm sure RC will 95% agree with me. ;)

I`m 100% with you!!! 

When I drove the turbo S, the first thought that came to my mind was the mind boggling power and torque.  Frankly I wasn't used to that type of power and torque in a car. It felt more like my bikes! But within 15 mins, the power becomes second nature and you realise how comfortable the car is and how easy it is to utilise the power (unlike on my bikes!). Then as you start to push the car, you realise how much fun it can be and you can still slide the rear end if you want to on this thing. BUT, ultimately, you feel the weight despite the PDCC keeping it flat, you feel the transfer of weight more on heavy braking, you realise that the engine is a bit more muted thanks to the turbo, you realise that this car does not have the rawness that you were looking for (as was my case anyway), and the suspension does too good a job and is too refined. If I had the money, my ideal garage would consist of a Turbo S as a daily driver, and a GT3 when I feel like thrashing around in the mountains by myself. The Turbo S is the more complete car though, no doubt in my mind. I would think that for most people, it's the car for them as it provides both the luxury and sportiness aspect in abundance. But I wanted something more raw like any of my past GT3s and the turbo S definitely isn't that car. 

ClockEm:

If it is going to be until the summer then I think we all should consider telling Porsche keep the 14's give us all 2015's.  

This is going to get very interesting if accurate...

RS60 Spyder, 991 GT3 RS pending :)

The Porsche press conference is tomorrow March 4th at Geneva 08:20 - 08:35 local time. 

RS60 Spyder, 991 GT3 RS pending :)

boytronic:

The Porsche press conference is tomorrow March 4th at Geneva 08:20 - 08:35 local time. 

No GT3 news and no RS either... Game over.

RS60 Spyder, 991 GT3 RS pending :)

What was the other news then?

Boyko23:

What was the other news then?

Mark Webber's new track toy...

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20140303/MOTORSPORTS/140309975

RS60 Spyder, 991 GT3 RS pending :)

Free Topgear GT3 gloves, tongs and esky full of steaks with every GT3 sold???