Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Friend of mine just drove it... - Page2

25-Mar-2006 00:19:51

GT: Senior; Loc: london , United Kingdom; Posts: 618, Gallery; Registered on: 14-Jan-2006

Friend of mine just drove it...

Pretty unbelievable but true..
A friend of mine (who is also an independent car dealer) was driving outside stuttgart and suddenly he sees in front him a black 997tt! He pulls over and starts chatting with the guy trying to find out how on earth he got it. The driver kept smiling saying that he just bought it a week ago!!! (what the ..)

. The car had just 1,000 kms, manual, sport chrono.
He was pretty friendly and took my friend for a drive and then let him drive it for 10 mins!

His impressions are as follows:
Engine is very flexible from low revs, has considerably more push than 996tt and tts. He felt that the car was super quick and even though he did not push the car, his impression was that the suspension was quite firm but with better ride quality than the 996tt. Overall he said that he thought that its the best car he's ever driven! (he has driven most exotics).
His impression was also that the car looked much better in real life than in pictures, he even liked the rims..
RC how is it possible that there are cars out there already!!?

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25-Mar-2006 06:05:48

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59606, Gallery; Registered on: 26-Mar-2002; Reply to: GT

Re: Friend of mine just drove it...

Quote:
GT said:
Pretty unbelievable but true..
A friend of mine (who is also an independent car dealer) was driving outside stuttgart and suddenly he sees in front him a black 997tt! He pulls over and starts chatting with the guy trying to find out how on earth he got it. The driver kept smiling saying that he just bought it a week ago!!! (what the ..) . The car had just 1,000 kms, manual, sport chrono.
He was pretty friendly and took my friend for a drive and then let him drive it for 10 mins! His impressions are as follows:
Engine is very flexible from low revs, has considerably more push than 996tt and tts. He felt that the car was super quick and even though he did not push the car, his impression was that the suspension was quite firm but with better ride quality than the 996tt. Overall he said that he thought that its the best car he's ever driven! (he has driven most exotics).
His impression was also that the car looked much better in real life than in pictures, he even liked the rims..
RC how is it possible that there are cars out there already!!?

Not possible.

Possible:

1. your friend is lying (very likely)
2. a Porsche employee was driving the car (and your friend would still be lying because they're not allowed to let strangers drive)
3. it wasn't a 997 Turbo but a modded 997/996

Since car dealers usually have a good sense for fantasy

and sometimes are pretty well trained in lying, I'd say that your friend just told you a nice story. Not true...but nice.

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25-Mar-2006 09:52:02

intouch1: Rennteam Master; Loc: Red Sea , Egypt; Posts: 5753, Gallery; Registered on: 22-May-2004; Reply to: RC

Re: Friend of mine just drove it...

no way jose !!
this car is not available yet and porsche test mules are certainly not driven by individuals not affiliated with porsche...

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25-Mar-2006 10:44:10

GT: Senior; Loc: london , United Kingdom; Posts: 618, Gallery; Registered on: 14-Jan-2006; Reply to: intouch1

Re: Friend of mine just drove it...

Well, that was my initial thought as well and thats why I grilled him with questions. I struggle to understand why he would lie to me though since he knows I am not buying one until PDK and/or S comes out..
Could have been as you say a P employee playing naughty but its really weird.
Anyway, on a different note I spoke to one of the tuners that were in the geneva motor show (huge experience in P turbos etc) about his impressions of the 997tt. He said a few interesting opinions:
- Tip is based on the merc one and he does not believe that there'll be such a perf difference and it's a marketing strategy thing. Probably P bought many of these trannys from Merc and needs to make sure they sell them..

They believe that when PDK comes out it will be perfect for this car..
- Differential looks mechanically the same and no way it transfers more than 35-40% max to the front since they would have to change an aweful lot of components for the front system to accept so much power. Hence the benefit is mainly from the electronic interface.
- VTG techology. The turbos seem to be of very high quality; when Porsche brings out new technology it's always extremely well researched. He said that it would offer an improvement in low end torque, some of which one could get with good tuning anyway.
- Engine is pretty much the same (well we know that) with some improvements; ie the dual opening airbox - which a lot of tuners offered, another difference is that it apparently has 2 airmass sensors. That should be a good thing given the problems that I have experienced with the airmass sensor in my car.. (engine response changes a hell of a lot depending on weather conditions + sensor keeps breaking down!). I think he also mentioned of some notable improvements in the intake.
- Car looks "not too bad" in reality except for the following;
a. Exhaust tips and the plastic around them
b. Wheels
c. Front fog lights.
Obviously he was not too disappointed for a and b since it means a lot of people will be changing them asap so more business for them!

Apart from the subjective opinions I tend to believe the above (wishful thinking maybe on the tip comment) since these guys have worked on hundreds of turbos and are usually pretty objective.
Let see what happens when first tests come out..

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25-Mar-2006 14:49:15

CF: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Florida , United States; Posts: 1113, Gallery; Registered on: 30-Mar-2003; Reply to: GT

Re: Friend of mine just drove it...

1. Your friend is lying.
2. A Tuner said......

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25-Mar-2006 20:14:44

GT: Senior; Loc: london , United Kingdom; Posts: 618, Gallery; Registered on: 14-Jan-2006; Reply to: CF

Re: Friend of mine just drove it...

1. Possibly
2. Err which part is

exactly??

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25-Mar-2006 20:30:05

CF: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Florida , United States; Posts: 1113, Gallery; Registered on: 30-Mar-2003; Reply to: GT

Re: Friend of mine just drove it...

1.

Quote:
he does not believe that there'll be such a perf difference and it's a marketing strategy thing.

2.

Quote:
Differential looks mechanically the same and no way it transfers more than 35-40% max to the front since they would have to change an aweful lot of components for the front system to accept so much power. Hence the benefit is mainly from the electronic interface.

3.

Quote:
He said that it would offer an improvement in low end torque, some of which one could get with good tuning anyway.

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25-Mar-2006 22:03:01

rhino: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Island , Saint Lucia; Posts: 2876, Gallery; Registered on: 26-Jan-2006; Reply to: CF

Re: Friend of mine just drove it...

It seems most people following the TT on this forum know more than that tunner!

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25-Mar-2006 22:06:08

JakeGt2: Co-Pilot; Loc: NJ , United States; Posts: 238, Gallery; Registered on: 24-Feb-2005; Reply to: rhino

Re: Friend of mine just drove it...

Lie Lie Lie

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25-Mar-2006 23:01:42

Emperor: Veteran; Loc: London & Gothenburg; Posts: 1013, Gallery; Registered on: 06-Jan-2006; Reply to: JakeGt2

Re: Friend of mine just drove it...

...........and I saw a 17 years old girl drive a facelifted Cayenne 2008.

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26-Mar-2006 01:49:19

GT: Senior; Loc: london , United Kingdom; Posts: 618, Gallery; Registered on: 14-Jan-2006; Reply to: rhino

Re: Friend of mine just drove it...

1. Re tip advantage over manual lets see it first and then judge. The old tip was so much slower, the merc auto tranny is better but not that amazing (my girlfriend has an SLK AMG that I drive regularly and its ok but not spectacular) so the first independent tests will show how much faster the tip really is.
2. On the differential, unless you are a mechanic and you've seen both differentials (ie old and new) yourself, then you should probably not be that confident.. I would not be myself.
3. YES, I have actually changed the software 4 times in my car in different stages and YES it is possible to bring the torque curve fwd if the tuner knows what he is doing. Now this is not speculation, it is a fact since I've seen it with my own eyes in my own car.

Regarding the dealer that says that saw a 997tt in Stuttgart I guess that part is quite possible since so many people have seen them driving around since early feb. Regarding his claim that he was taken for a drive and actually drove it himself, I cant say if it was true (was not there myself) so if you guys are so certain then I agree it must be BS. I agree with RC's comment that dealers can "invent stories" even though that one did not have obvious reason that I can think of..

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26-Mar-2006 02:26:41

Coochas: Co-Pilot; Loc: Boston, MA, USA; Posts: 221, Gallery; Registered on: 19-Mar-2006; Reply to: GT

Re: Friend of mine just drove it...

Sounds like Penthouse Forum !

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26-Mar-2006 08:49:11

polo: Senior; Loc: France; Posts: 539, Gallery; Registered on: 26-Feb-2006; Reply to: Emperor

Re: Friend of mine just drove it...

Thats a lie-- nice try though... Is it really your friend?

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26-Mar-2006 10:26:14

GT: Senior; Loc: london , United Kingdom; Posts: 618, Gallery; Registered on: 14-Jan-2006; Reply to: polo

Re: Friend of mine just drove it...

More like someone I know for quite a few years and have bought several cars from.. So I guess a "friend" in a loose term..
Anyway maybe I should have not posted it but he sounded really impressed by the car etc and for a moment there I thought (or maybe hoped?) that there was some truth in it

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26-Mar-2006 10:43:30

polo: Senior; Loc: France; Posts: 539, Gallery; Registered on: 26-Feb-2006; Reply to: GT

Re: Friend of mine just drove it...

There is nothing wrong with your post!
I'm sure anyone sitted in the car will enjoy and be really impressed by what the car can do!
In france the only person who was allowed to be seated as a passenger for a test is top boss of porsche france.

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26-Mar-2006 14:47:28

Avantgarde: Senior; Loc: City State; Posts: 708, Gallery; Registered on: 06-Apr-2005; Reply to: GT

Re: Friend of mine just drove it...

Quote:
GT said:
More like someone I know for quite a few years and have bought several cars from.. So I guess a "friend" in a loose term..

Associate......or Acquaintance

Never trust a car sales person

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26-Mar-2006 15:27:19

OCEAN: Expert; Loc: US; Posts: 1334, Gallery; Registered on: 28-Sep-2004; Reply to: Emperor

Re: Friend of mine just drove it...

I was hitchhiking on the autobahn the other day and was also picked up in a new 997TT the guy ended up letting me use it for the weekend I will try to post some pictures but I can not seem to get my 11 million pixel Razor camera phone to work .

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26-Mar-2006 16:36:48

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: 11-Apr-2002; Reply to: GT

Re: Friend of mine just drove it...

Look these mistakes are understandable. It is difficult to distinguish Porsche model and model years apart. Cut his friend some slack.

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26-Mar-2006 17:26:45

BD 997: Veteran; Loc: Boston, MA USA; Posts: 833, Gallery; Registered on: 16-Feb-2005; Reply to: nberry

Re: Friend of mine just drove it...

Quote:
nberry said:
Look these mistakes are understandable. It is difficult to distinguish Porsche model and model years apart. Cut his friend some slack.

all these negative posts about porsche... I think NBERRY is upset the new TT will smoke his f-car in every category but looks of course

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26-Mar-2006 17:32:13

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: 23-Jul-2003; Reply to: BD 997

Re: Friend of mine just drove it...

Quote:
BD 997 said:
Quote:
nberry said:
Look these mistakes are understandable. It is difficult to distinguish Porsche model and model years apart. Cut his friend some slack.

all these negative posts about porsche... I think NBERRY is upset the new TT will smoke his f-car in every category but looks of course

No, this has nothing to do with the new TT.

Nick was dropped on his head by his childnurse many, many years ago when her head was turned by a dashing young guy driving by in a Porsche 356.

Nick has still not forgiven Porsche for that.

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26-Mar-2006 17:57:21

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: 17-Oct-2002; Reply to: fritz

Re: Friend of mine just drove it...

Quote:
fritz said:
Quote:
BD 997 said:
Quote:
nberry said:
Look these mistakes are understandable. It is difficult to distinguish Porsche model and model years apart. Cut his friend some slack.

all these negative posts about porsche... I think NBERRY is upset the new TT will smoke his f-car in every category but looks of course

No, this has nothing to do with the new TT.

Nick was dropped on his head by his childnurse many, many years ago when her head was turned by a dashing young guy driving by in a Porsche 356.

Nick has still not forgiven Porsche for that.

Ahahahahahahahahahahahah!

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26-Mar-2006 18:36:25

OCEAN: Expert; Loc: US; Posts: 1334, Gallery; Registered on: 28-Sep-2004; Reply to: fritz

Re: Friend of mine just drove it...

Quote:
I think NBERRY is upset the new TT will smoke his f-car in every category but looks of course

well when the cab comes out and you put the right wheels on it it may win in the looks category , lets see what Techarts comes up with. Lets face it Ferrari will need to up the anti with the successor to the 430, and I am sure they will. For now the new hot ticket is the 997TT and the soon to come variations . Lets face it you really need both .

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26-Mar-2006 21:11:04

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: 11-Apr-2002; Reply to: BD 997

Re: Friend of mine just drove it...

Quote:
BD 997 said:
Quote:
nberry said:
Look these mistakes are understandable. It is difficult to distinguish Porsche model and model years apart. Cut his friend some slack.

all these negative posts about porsche... I think NBERRY is upset the new TT will smoke his f-car in every category but looks of course

You apparently are not familar with my position concerning Porsche. Don't take them personally. It is all in good fun with a hint of truth.

I find it comical how people focus on the performance feature of the 997TT. I would wager 99% of the buyers will never get close to what the TT is able to do certainly not on public streets and highways. Even at the track 99% will only get near 75% of its capabilities.

So why the foolish obsession with the 997TT performance?

In a word; WANNABE!

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26-Mar-2006 21:27:23

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: 23-Jul-2003; Reply to: nberry

Re: Friend of mine just drove it...

Quote:
nberry said:
It is all in good fun with a hint of truth.

I find it comical how people focus on the performance feature of the 997TT. I would wager 99% of the buyers will never get close to what the TT is able to do certainly not on public streets and highways. Even at the track 99% will only get near 75% of its capabilities.

So why the foolish obsession with the 997TT performance? In a word; WANNABE!

There is more than a hint of truth in the three observations you make there, Nick.

So what is that you WANNABE when you are driving your F430?

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26-Mar-2006 21:29:55

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: 17-Oct-2002; Reply to: nberry

Re: Friend of mine just drove it...

Quote:
nberry said:
Quote:
BD 997 said:
Quote:
nberry said:
Look these mistakes are understandable. It is difficult to distinguish Porsche model and model years apart. Cut his friend some slack.

all these negative posts about porsche... I think NBERRY is upset the new TT will smoke his f-car in every category but looks of course

You apparently are not familar with my position concerning Porsche. Don't take them personally. It is all in good fun with a hint of truth.

I find it comical how people focus on the performance feature of the 997TT. I would wager 99% of the buyers will never get close to what the TT is able to do certainly not on public streets and highways. Even at the track 99% will only get near 75% of its capabilities.

So why the foolish obsession with the 997TT performance? In a word; WANNABE!

Nick, some people DO get to that last percent of performance, as some of us are lucky enough to have the roads available, which are conducive to this kind of driving. We know your position and it's all in good fun, but if none of us really drove (or planned to) the 997TT over 75% we'd have just bought SL600s and be done with it.

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26-Mar-2006 21:49:55

GT: Senior; Loc: london , United Kingdom; Posts: 618, Gallery; Registered on: 14-Jan-2006; Reply to: nberry

Re: Friend of mine just drove it...

Hey Nick, read some post of yours a while a go where you were mentioning your track experience etc. One question for you; have you ever driven a 996tt and compare it to say a 360?
Happened to do just that a while ago, one after the other, on the same B roads, with the 360 owner as co passenger. Well apart from the noise and the head turing ability the F car was inferior in everything! Power, brakes, balance, handling, traction, electronics and consequently FUN! It felt like you had to be Ari Vatanen to push the car to the limit with any safety and even then the 360 could not match the pace of the turbo. And all that with a harsh ride quality and really impractical in just about everything. Have you ever compared Ps and Fs as cars and not status symbols? And if yes then what did you think, I would honestly like to know.
I was really hoping I would like the 360 since after four 911s I really wanted to change into something else but never something inferior.
So do you think the F cars will ever get to the level of the P cars? And I dont mean in the "show off dpt" but in their real abilities as cars..?

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26-Mar-2006 23:04:03

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: 11-Apr-2002; Reply to: GT

Re: Friend of mine just drove it...

Quote:
GT said:
Hey Nick, read some post of yours a while a go where you were mentioning your track experience etc. One question for you; have you ever driven a 996tt and compare it to say a 360?
Happened to do just that a while ago, one after the other, on the same B roads, with the 360 owner as co passenger. Well apart from the noise and the head turing ability the F car was inferior in everything! Power, brakes, balance, handling, traction, electronics and consequently FUN! It felt like you had to be Ari Vatanen to push the car to the limit with any safety and even then the 360 could not match the pace of the turbo. And all that with a harsh ride quality and really impractical in just about everything. Have you ever compared Ps and Fs as cars and not status symbols? And if yes then what did you think, I would honestly like to know.
I was really hoping I would like the 360 since after four 911s I really wanted to change into something else but never something inferior.
So do you think the F cars will ever get to the level of the P cars? And I dont mean in the "show off dpt" but in their real abilities as cars..?

I have driven the 996TT on a couple of occasions and found it to be as sterile of a sport car you will find any where. No doubt it has performance. But with AWD drive and turbo delay, I found it a rather sad experience for someone who wants to enjoy inspiring and intoxicating driving.

The car was just boring. Drivng fast in a TT is like riding in an airplane. You may be going fast but there is absolutely no sensation or feeling of speed. You might as well be driving a MB AMG65.

GT, a Ferrari is not for everyone. It is not a practical car but certainly is a car that can handle daily driving. In the past, that was not the case.

The reason why I moved to Ferrari is because driving it is an event. It evokes emotion and passion which translates to stimulating driving. Given that performance is limited on public streets, it is the perfect car for me. Nothing can be more invigorating then driving a Ferrari and not worriying about speed traps, police monitoring or cameras.

Finally, regarding Ferrari "catching up with Porsche" God I hope not.

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27-Mar-2006 00:07:06

BD 997: Veteran; Loc: Boston, MA USA; Posts: 833, Gallery; Registered on: 16-Feb-2005; Reply to: fritz

Re: Friend of mine just drove it...

Quote:
fritz said:
Quote:
nberry said:
It is all in good fun with a hint of truth.

I find it comical how people focus on the performance feature of the 997TT. I would wager 99% of the buyers will never get close to what the TT is able to do certainly not on public streets and highways. Even at the track 99% will only get near 75% of its capabilities.

So why the foolish obsession with the 997TT performance? In a word; WANNABE!

There is more than a hint of truth in the three observations you make there, Nick.

So what is that you WANNABE when you are driving your F430?

its all in good fun...

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27-Mar-2006 00:46:14

Alan(NJ): Pilot; Loc: Paramus NJ USA; Posts: 403, Gallery; Registered on: 29-Mar-2002; Reply to: nberry

I understand your comments, Nick

I owned 2 996tt's and overall was disappointed with the experience. The stock 996tt suspension tended towards harshness and yet was overly floaty in the curves (too much vertical motion). The acceleration was impressive but only when you wound the car up and the turbos had their chance spool. And the sound of the stock exhaust was pathetic. It was easy to fix the faults with the X73 suspension, chip, exhaust etc, but quite frankly my current 987S gives me more of the passion that you write about than the stock 996tts.

All that said, I'm trying again with the 997tt because I think (I hope) that those that think that there isn't going to be much of a difference between the stock 996tt and 997tt are very wrong.

I'm expecting more driving fun, more passion and spirit and less of the "supercar appliance" feel. If the 997tt only is fun over the 100mph mark, it'll be the wrong car for me.

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27-Mar-2006 01:22:44

Targa Tim: Expert; Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada , Canada; Posts: 1475, Gallery; Registered on: 03-Mar-2005; Reply to: Alan(NJ)

Re: I understand your comments, Nick

Quote:
Alan(NJ) said:

I'm expecting more driving fun, more passion and spirit and less of the "supercar appliance" feel. If the 997tt only is fun over the 100mph mark, it'll be the wrong car for me.

After viewing the GT3 video on the 997 forum, I think the new GT3 will be more driving fun than the TT. Of course it is just my thoughts as I haven't driven either cars. So don't shoot me.

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I understand your comments, Nick

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