Crown

andyFE:

GT3 991 on fire:

http://www.toponline.ch/stgallen/detail/art/porsche-in-gossau-ausgebrannt-001661854/

the reason for the fire is not known so far. 

Short translation : While driving on the motorway the driver started to hear strange noises coming from the engine. He then drove off the motorway and stopped the car. When he inspected the car he noticed oil leakage and smoke coming out of the engine bay. The car then caught fire. 

The fire brigade arrived soon after and extinguished the fire. The cause for the fire is currently being investigated.

Porsche 911 GT3 - Guards Red 997 MKII Clubsport

I always carry a fire extinguisher.  Ever since one of my early 911 airboxes blew up on a cold winter day...

In this case it would have put that fire out in time.

KresoF1:

991 GT3 on MIchelin Cups, 991 Turbo S on P Zeros...

Who cares about the Turbo, really?  For a track car?  The more relevant comparison, IMO, is that fact that it's 1.5 seconds faster than the mighty 4.0.  And that car was on MPSC's.

991 GT3 incoming, 964 Turbo 3.6, E36 M3 ltw S54 conversion, bunch of other stuff

 

The high revving engine is one if not the highlight of the new GT3. Absolutely mind blowing when you pass beyond 8500 rpm.  I just hope that Porsche adds some turbo chargers to this engine at some point, it would be sad if it goes to waste (for two or three models only).

Surely you are joking.  Do you actually believe that this motor would be even a remotely suitable platform to add a few hairdryers?

If you mean a modified GT3 motor with lower rev limit and lower compression. . . then I think that's already in your driveway?

991 GT3 incoming, 964 Turbo 3.6, E36 M3 ltw S54 conversion, bunch of other stuff

andyFE:

GT3 991 on fire:

http://www.toponline.ch/stgallen/detail/art/porsche-in-gossau-ausgebrannt-001661854/

the reason for the fire is not known so far. 

Oh dear. Happy I decided on a new Boxster and not a new GT3.

There are too many recalls and now fires with this car.

2014 981 Boxster S | Riviera Blue | PDK | Sport Suspension (-20mm) | PCCB | PTV | PSE
2010 997.2 C2S | Carrara White | Manual | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE | OZ Superforgiata
2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White

Previous
2008 997.1 C4S | Guards Red | Manual | PSE | Bilstein PSS10 | H&R Roll Bars | Dension 500
2007 997.1 Turbo | Meteor Gray | Manual | Bilstein PSS10 | Cargraphic Stage 2 | Dension 500
2005 987.1 Boxster S | Arctic Silver | Manual | OZ Ultraleggera | H&R Cup Suspension | H&R Roll Bars | Sachs Racing Clutch | Recaro Shells
2005 997.1 C2S | Atlas Gray | Manual | PSE | Sport Suspension (-20mm)

frayed:

 

The high revving engine is one if not the highlight of the new GT3. Absolutely mind blowing when you pass beyond 8500 rpm.  I just hope that Porsche adds some turbo chargers to this engine at some point, it would be sad if it goes to waste (for two or three models only).

 

Surely you are joking.  Do you actually believe that this motor would be even a remotely suitable platform to add a few hairdryers?

If you mean a modified GT3 motor with lower rev limit and lower compression. . . then I think that's already in your driveway?

+1, just what I wanted to write 

2014 981 Boxster S | Riviera Blue | PDK | Sport Suspension (-20mm) | PCCB | PTV | PSE
2010 997.2 C2S | Carrara White | Manual | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE | OZ Superforgiata
2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White

Previous
2008 997.1 C4S | Guards Red | Manual | PSE | Bilstein PSS10 | H&R Roll Bars | Dension 500
2007 997.1 Turbo | Meteor Gray | Manual | Bilstein PSS10 | Cargraphic Stage 2 | Dension 500
2005 987.1 Boxster S | Arctic Silver | Manual | OZ Ultraleggera | H&R Cup Suspension | H&R Roll Bars | Sachs Racing Clutch | Recaro Shells
2005 997.1 C2S | Atlas Gray | Manual | PSE | Sport Suspension (-20mm)

Leawood911:

I always carry a fire extinguisher.  Ever since one of my early 911 airboxes blew up on a cold winter day...

In this case it would have put that fire out in time.

i prefer to let them burn to the ground and get a new one.  not to say having an extinguisher isnt a great idea so one has the choice if no damage has occurred....

the new fire car replacing....  458?  Karma?  Tesla

frayed:

KresoF1:

991 GT3 on MIchelin Cups, 991 Turbo S on P Zeros...

Who cares about the Turbo, really?  For a track car?  The more relevant comparison, IMO, is that fact that it's 1.5 seconds faster than the mighty 4.0.  And that car was on MPSC's.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)

frayed:

Surely you are joking.  Do you actually believe that this motor would be even a remotely suitable platform to add a few hairdryers?

If you mean a modified GT3 motor with lower rev limit and lower compression. . . then I think that's already in your driveway?

I hate to disappoint you, the 991 Turbo S engine doesn't have much in common with the new GT3 engine. This is why I made the comment. The 991 Turbo S engine is new but still based on the "old" 997 Turbo S engine, even if they don't share many parts. A completely new Turbo engine will be very likely presented with the next 911 generation and I wouldn't mind if it is based on the completely new GT3 engine. Rev limiter to 8000 rpm (instead of the current 7200), adding three (not two) turbo chargers and the car would be amazing.

Btw: I think you got GT3-philia, you should get treatment. Best done by a Turbo S blowing you off.  

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)

More pictures

I just don't get this conception that the Turbo is a competitor for the GT3.....i mean in what universe?

I don't...and doubt ever will ...cross shop....

If you've any motor driven aural connection/need/desire....then its  a GT3/RS...lock, stock and bloody thunderous barrels..in all their insanely sonorous hair raising 8500 to 9000rpm conviction.......

to quote Chris Harris:

"The 991's engine is a sublime response to the industry obsession with turbocharging. I loved it last year when I first drove it, but somehow it seems even more engaging on these shores. It's everything you could want from a high-performance motor: tractable but with so much spite over the final 1,000rpm that you can't help but visit that place the whole time.

And when you do pull that paddle at 8,900rpm and the exhaust sends a great crack of noise into the surrounding area, you can't help but admit that it wouldn't be as immediate, or bluntly exciting if you couldn't just pull a paddle and grin at the waaaaaaaaaap-pop-waaaaaaaap. Because that high-rpm jolt is the very essence of this engine - a sensation of living right on the edge of what is mechanically possible and, because of those seven ratios, always dropping straight back into the mental zone of the power-band."

All that and there's the fire spitting on over-run...

Still can hear the aural resonance from the last outing in my RS.....

No substitute.... :) 

BMCG:

I just don't get this conception that the Turbo is a competitor for the GT3.....i mean in what universe?

I don't...and doubt ever will ...cross shop....

If you've any motor driven aural connection/need/desire....then its  a GT3/RS...lock, stock and bloody thunderous barrels..in all their insanely sonorous hair raising 8500 to 9000rpm conviction.......

to quote Chris Harris:

"The 991's engine is a sublime response to the industry obsession with turbocharging. I loved it last year when I first drove it, but somehow it seems even more engaging on these shores. It's everything you could want from a high-performance motor: tractable but with so much spite over the final 1,000rpm that you can't help but visit that place the whole time.

And when you do pull that paddle at 8,900rpm and the exhaust sends a great crack of noise into the surrounding area, you can't help but admit that it wouldn't be as immediate, or bluntly exciting if you couldn't just pull a paddle and grin at the waaaaaaaaaap-pop-waaaaaaaap. Because that high-rpm jolt is the very essence of this engine - a sensation of living right on the edge of what is mechanically possible and, because of those seven ratios, always dropping straight back into the mental zone of the power-band."

All that and there's the fire spitting on over-run...

Still can hear the aural resonance from the last outing in my RS.....

No substitute.... :) 

 

 

 

The 991 Turbo S and the GT3 are different cars for (probably) different people or maybe different needs.

If driving emotions and track/weekend fun are the most important things, the GT3 is just perfect.

However, I do not get people who buy a GT3 mainly for street driving, even as a daily driver. This doesn't make sense. On the other hand, if they don't have kids or the need for more room, the GT3 actually makes more sense than a 991 Carrera S for similar money. This is true.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)

SuzyF:

andyFE:

GT3 991 on fire:

http://www.toponline.ch/stgallen/detail/art/porsche-in-gossau-ausgebrannt-001661854/

the reason for the fire is not known so far. 

New PTS color? Smokegrey metallic? 

.....with a flaming red/orange livery:::)))

andyFE:

SuzyF:

andyFE:

GT3 991 on fire:

http://www.toponline.ch/stgallen/detail/art/porsche-in-gossau-ausgebrannt-001661854/

the reason for the fire is not known so far. 

New PTS color? Smokegrey metallic? 

.....with a flaming red/orange livery:::)))

LOL!! 

Suzy

2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basalt black metallic
2014 Audi A6 Avant 3.0 BiTDI Quattro | Moonshine blue metallic
 

RC:

However, I do not get people who buy a GT3 mainly for street driving, even as a daily driver. This doesn't make sense. 

It makes perfect sense to choose the GT3 over the turbo / turbo S:

- the GT3 looks better (subjective)

- the GT3 sounds better (less subjective)

- the GT3 is cheaper

- the GT3 is more fun to drive (RWD) and lighter with better handling

- the GT3 has a better gearbox

- in most scenarios on the road the GT3 will perform similarly

etc

Sidicks2:

RC:

However, I do not get people who buy a GT3 mainly for street driving, even as a daily driver. This doesn't make sense. 

It makes perfect sense to choose the GT3 over the turbo / turbo S:

- the GT3 looks better (subjective)

- the GT3 sounds better (less subjective)

- the GT3 is cheaper

- the GT3 is more fun to drive (RWD) and lighter with better handling

- the GT3 has a better gearbox

- in most scenarios on the road the GT3 will perform similarly

etc

 

Well.... All of these reasons are also very subjective of course, except the pricetag.

Almost none of these reasons apply to me personally. If I had to choose between these two cars, I would choose a Turbo over a GT3 every time, even if the Turbo was 4 times the GT3's pricetag.

I never get the whole discussion GT3 vs. Turbo...  Everyone chooses the car he or she prefers, no matter what other people think of it. There is no worse or better... It all depends on one's needs and preferences. One person can have ten times the fun of a GT3 in a Turbo and another person will have ten times the fun of a Turbo in a GT3, all depending on what the person describes as fun. It's like discussing manual vs. PDK.... Useless

Suzy

2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basalt black metallic
2014 Audi A6 Avant 3.0 BiTDI Quattro | Moonshine blue metallic
 

YES!!!......What Suzy said!

coming from 4 years of GT3 ownership, I rather welcome the "changes" a Turbo will present for my driving experience and pleasure.... and it's all strictly personal! 

Peter

997 GT3

Lexus GS350 F-sport Sport 

F150 Platinum

Sidicks2:

RC:

However, I do not get people who buy a GT3 mainly for street driving, even as a daily driver. This doesn't make sense. 

It makes perfect sense to choose the GT3 over the turbo / turbo S:

- the GT3 looks better (subjective)

It looks more aggressive (sportier) and it sits lower.

- the GT3 sounds better (less subjective)

Yes, especially in the upper rev range.

- the GT3 is cheaper

 Yes.

- the GT3 is more fun to drive (RWD) and lighter with better handling

I disagree. Depends what you are looking for. Better handling? Not really. Same tires...pretty much the same handling.

- the GT3 has a better gearbox

If you shift manually, yes.

- in most scenarios on the road the GT3 will perform similarly

Nope, I disagree (from experience).

etc

 

What would etc be? Something objective?  

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)

RC:

Sidicks2:

RC:

However, I do not get people who buy a GT3 mainly for street driving, even as a daily driver. This doesn't make sense. 

It makes perfect sense to choose the GT3 over the turbo / turbo S:

- the GT3 looks better (subjective)

It looks more aggressive (sportier) and it sits lower.

- the GT3 sounds better (less subjective)

Yes, especially in the upper rev range.

- the GT3 is cheaper

 Yes.

- the GT3 is more fun to drive (RWD) and lighter with better handling

I disagree. Depends what you are looking for. Better handling? Not really. Same tires...pretty much the same handling.

- the GT3 has a better gearbox

If you shift manually, yes.

- in most scenarios on the road the GT3 will perform similarly

Nope, I disagree (from experience).

etc

 

What would etc be? Something objective?  

Something objective??

You were the one that said it 'made no sense' to choose a GT3 over a Turbo for road driving.. :(

And if you think that on the same tyres a 1650kg 4WD drive handles the same as a 1450kg RWD car, then that's a strange position to take - certainly that's not the opinion of most (credible) people who have driven both cars.

The sorts of situations where a turbo S will be materially faster than a GT3 are those where if you were caught you'd be in jail for quite some time!

Have you driven both?  

If yes and you still keep your claim, then you should work on your perception skills. Porsche did an amazing job to adapt the AWS, PTM and the steering feel in a way which make the Turbo S feel much lighter than it actually is.

Keep in mind that GT3 development and Turbo/S development are done in two completely different departments. It would have been quite easy to make the Turbo S faster on the track too but now I shut up. 

Hopefully this doesn't start again as a GT3 vs Turbo S discussion. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)

RC:

Have you driven both?  

If yes and you still keep your claim, then you should work on your perception skills. Porsche did an amazing job to adapt the AWS, PTM and the steering feel in a way which make the Turbo S feel much lighter than it actually is.

Keep in mind that GT3 development and Turbo/S development are done in two completely different departments. It would have been quite easy to make the Turbo S faster on the track too but now I shut up. 

Hopefully this doesn't start again as a GT3 vs Turbo S discussion. 

You started by making a claim that is demonstrably false and inconsistent with that made by numerous other people. 

You made the claim about the Turbo on the GT3 thread ...and now you want to stop people discussing the GT3 v Turbo...

Making a 4WD car feel much lighter is not the same as making it handle like a 200Kg rear wheel drive car.  Surely anyone can see that?

It would have been possible to make the GT3 faster too (see the forthcoming RS for more details...), the fact is that we are comparing the cars that ARE available, not the cars that COULD have been produced if someone had made different decisions at Porsche AG.

RC:

Have you driven both?  

If yes and you still keep your claim, then you should work on your perception skills. Porsche did an amazing job to adapt the AWS, PTM and the steering feel in a way which make the Turbo S feel much lighter than it actually is.

....overcoming physics? :::)))  newton was wrong after all?  :::))))

Keep in mind that GT3 development and Turbo/S development are done in two completely different departments. It would have been quite easy to make the Turbo S faster on the track too but now I shut up. 

Hopefully this doesn't start again as a GT3 vs Turbo S discussion. 

andyFE:

 

 

....overcoming physics? :::)))  newton was wrong after all?  :::))))

 

Funny. I wonder how Nissan did it with the GT-R and even Porsche with their Panamera Turbo S. 

Weight can be used as an advantage and modern technology makes a lot of stuff possible. With the right AWS, PTM, PASM and electric steering setup, the possibilities are endless. With the same tires, the GT3 would stand no chance (it barely stands it now).

Now if you ask me why the Formula One doesn't use heavier cars or AWD or whatever  (I am pretty sure that someone will ask this dumb question), please ask the FIA and the teams. 

This discussion is getting tiresome. I will leave this thread to the narcissistic fan crowd because otherwise I could say something I could regret later on. 

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)

RC:

andyFE:

 

 

....overcoming physics? :::)))  newton was wrong after all?  :::))))

 

Funny. I wonder how Nissan did it with the GT-R and even Porsche with their Panamera Turbo S. 

Weight can be used as an advantage and modern technology makes a lot of stuff possible. With the right AWS, PTM, PASM and electric steering setup, the possibilities are endless. With the same tires, the GT3 would stand no chance (it barely stands it now).

Now if you ask me why the Formula One doesn't use heavier cars or AWD or whatever  (I am pretty sure that someone will ask this dumb question), please ask the FIA and the teams. 

This discussion is getting tiresome. I will leave this thread to the narcissistic fan crowd because otherwise I could say something I could regret later on. 

 

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)

You actually think the GT-R and Panamera defy the laws of physics?!

The Panamera is a good car, but entering a corner at speeds that wouldn't trouble a Carrera S, let alone a GT3, and it's all too apparent how big and heavy a car it actually is.

Whatever you may say, we are seeing more magazine reports about the GT3 beating the Turbo S track times.....

Geesh, RC not sure why you perpetuate the Turbo v. GT3 debate.  Many (most perhaps) are not cross shopping these cars.  As I always say, horses for courses.  I think the debate really detracts from this forum. 

Anyway, RC, I said

frayed:

Surely you are joking.  Do you actually believe that this motor would be even a remotely suitable platform to add a few hairdryers?

If you mean a modified GT3 motor with lower rev limit and lower compression. . . then I think that's already in your driveway?

Your response:

"My main I hate to disappoint you, the 991 Turbo S engine doesn't have much in common with the new GT3 engine. This is why I made the comment. The 991 Turbo S engine is new but still based on the "old" 997 Turbo S engine, even if they don't share many parts. A completely new Turbo engine will be very likely presented with the next 911 generation and I wouldn't mind if it is based on the completely new GT3 engine. Rev limiter to 8000 rpm (instead of the current 7200), adding three (not two) turbo chargers and the car would be amazing.

Btw: I think you got GT3-philia, you should get treatment. Best done by a Turbo S blowing you off.  "

RC, no GT3-philia.  I've had perhaps not as many porsches as you, but I'm going on my 3rd generation GT3, still have a rare air cooled 911 and 7 in total.  I know every car has its pluses and minuses and I'm not blind to the GT3 faults.  But to think you can strap 3 hairdryers on the GT3 motor and lower the rev limiter to 8000 rpm is pure insanity.

The only thing shared b/t the GT3 motor and a turbocharged version would the alternator and casting, just like the GT3's motor shared parts with the 991 Carrera.

What would truly be amazing is if I could jump tall buildings with a single bound.

But whatever, this is a useless discussion.

991 GT3 incoming, 964 Turbo 3.6, E36 M3 ltw S54 conversion, bunch of other stuff

Sidicks2:

 

You actually think the GT-R and Panamera defy the laws of physics?!

The Panamera is a good car, but entering a corner at speeds that wouldn't trouble a Carrera S, let alone a GT3, and it's all too apparent how big and heavy a car it actually is.

Whatever you may say, we are seeing more magazine reports about the GT3 beating the Turbo S track times.....

It is no secret that Nissan engineers are using the car's weight as an advantage and it seems to work.

Same goes to Porsche with the Panamera Turbo S btw., the Nordschleife time of 7:52 min. is quite impressive. As a reminder, this is 2 seconds faster than the time the 996.2 GT3 achieved on the Nordschleife. 

Why do you think Porsche won't offer a 991 GT2? The problem is the 991 Turbo S. At times, the Turbo S would be faster (and yes, they tried) or at least as fast. Actually Achleitner confirmed this (Achleitner said, “If you take a look at today’s Turbo S and the performance this car produces . . . you cut away the front-wheel drive for the GT2, but the car loses traction.” As a result of this, a new 911 GT2 wouldn’t be faster than the new 911 Turbo let alone the 911 Turbo S and may not be worthwhile building.) What Achleitner forgot to mention is that the GT2 (like the GT3) is developed by Porsche Motorsports and the Turbo/Turbo S by Turbo/Carrera4/Targa development, two different branches in Weissach. I guess one department worked too well. 

Please don't get me wrong (I have to say this over and over again because some people don't seem to get it): The GT3 is a fantastic car and a joy to drive and especially to drive on the track. However, we should leave the church in the village as we say in Germany when we compare it to the Turbo S.  Just wait until the "960" shows up and even Turbo S owners may start crying. 

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)

It is no secret that Nissan engineers are using the car's weight as an advantage and it seems to work.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)

????

More Weight = advantage on the track????

991 GT3 incoming, 964 Turbo 3.6, E36 M3 ltw S54 conversion, bunch of other stuff

RC - has Turbo-phillia Frayed.  I know, I have it too.  Boost...is a powerful drug.  I noticed in your list you have not mentioned a Turbo 911 in your past.  Drive one and then you will understand (and like the GT3 even more) - just don't buy one else you will be in the same boat as RC and needing to defend the indefensible (like defending PDK over Manual).

Seriously - More weight equals more traction and speed - look at how heavy the space rockets are...the g's and top speed are out of this world.

Right?