Crown

RC:

I hate to say it but a [Cayman] is a [Cayman] and a 911 is a 911.

...

Last but not least, I see many 911 in the hands of Porsche employees but not many [Cayman]. So if the mentality at Porsche is the one I mentioned before, why would they want to change things?

...

Oh boy, I can see a similar discussion start with the Macan and the Cayenne at some point, especially since the Macan is 200 kg lighter than the Cayenne. Still, this won't change anything in the model hierarchy, even if I personally believe that the Macan Turbo is actually the best deal from Porsche in the SUV segment.

My edits above perhaps change the sense of your comment a bit, and it's been said before, but Porsche committed a major marketing mistake with the Cayman by making it the only coupe priced higher than its cabriolet sibling. It seems they feared the Cayman cutting into Carrera sales so much that they intentionally over-priced it from the launch, but by doing so they created situation of perceived value with the Cayman/Boxster that actually pushes it closer to the Carrera, and a kind of ridiculous situation where they now do have to worry about pushing them even closer with increased horsepower.

With the Macan/Cayenne, they seem to have understood that these are different models with different appeal and purpose and potential customers, and they aren't afraid to have the Macan S even have more horsepower than the base Cayman. This is how they should have positioned the Cayman/Boxster from the start and they wouldn't have this artificial marketing dilemma that results in these types of discussions.

There may be no backing off now, at least not with the current 981 generation, but maybe they should be looking for some marketing spin to reprice and reposition the next generation Cayman at a lower price than the Boxster, which would diminish the perceived value of the Cayman, and thus the Boxster as well, putting a more comfortable distance between these and the Carrera, giving them more freedom to add capability and probably sell more, Caymans at least (to a different, new set of customers), than they do now.

apias:

...it's been said before, but Porsche committed a major marketing mistake with the Cayman by making it the only coupe priced higher than its cabriolet sibling.

That is the second thing which they somehow managed to get away with (the first thing being the exaggerated premium on the 911 over the other models, especially compared to the 98x). In essence motivated by a different name and 10HP more. 

I love the 911, but the price levels are getting out of control and it is mostly motivated by heritage and marketing fluff. It is not like the 911 has better or different components than the other models. Especially with the 98x, where so much is shared with the 99x, the comparison is more or less fair and the result striking.

The often mentioned statement that Boxsters are driven by more women than men might be true. What that has anything to do with the quality, performance or status of the car beats me. I don't think that 911 drivers have a much better reputation. Especially not the 911 drivers who think that Boxsters are for women 

2014 981 Boxster S | Riviera Blue | PDK | Sport Suspension (-20mm) | PCCB | PTV | PSE
2010 997.2 C2S | Carrara White | Manual | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE | OZ Superforgiata
2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White

Previous
2008 997.1 C4S | Guards Red | Manual | PSE | Bilstein PSS10 | H&R Roll Bars | Dension 500
2007 997.1 Turbo | Meteor Gray | Manual | Bilstein PSS10 | Cargraphic Stage 2 | Dension 500
2005 987.1 Boxster S | Arctic Silver | Manual | OZ Ultraleggera | H&R Cup Suspension | H&R Roll Bars | Sachs Racing Clutch | Recaro Shells
2005 997.1 C2S | Atlas Gray | Manual | PSE | Sport Suspension (-20mm)

bluelines

The often mentioned statement that Boxsters are driven by more women than men might be true. What that has anything to do with the quality, performance or status of the car beats me. I don't think that 911 drivers have a much better reputation. Especially not the 911 drivers who think that Boxsters are for women 

Besides that, it's well known that women in general have a very good taste and a good sense of expenses...
Well... on second thoughts, that last statement might not be completely true
 

Suzy

2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basalt black metallic
2014 Audi A6 Avant 3.0 BiTDI Quattro | Moonshine blue metallic
 

.

The often mentioned statement that Boxsters are driven by more women than men might be true. What that has anything to do with the quality, performance or status of the car beats me. I don't think that 911 drivers have a much better reputation.

pretty fair to also say there are far more @$$holes driving 911's than Boxsters, but that doesn't seem to affect the consumption of 911's.

2013 Lotus Evora S/ 2008 Cayenne GTS Manual

2012 991 C2S -PDK / 2010 997.2 turbo cab manual, sold //2008 RS 60 sold /04 C4S sold - 08 Cayenne Turbo PDCC sold

I agree, the Cayman pricing was a huge mistake. Make it 5000 EUR cheaper than the Boxster, give it a slightly different front and rear and it could actually be a success.

The Boxster has never been developed as a track car or a race car, so we shouldn't have too many hopes that this will change. Right now, I don't see any possibility that this will change, unless Porsche decides to put a Cayman GT4 or similar on the market. I do not see any chances for a Boxster GT4 though, the roadster structure is probably too fragile for serious track racing (and I know that some of you won't agree but Porsche has different durability/safety standards than private people or even tuners).

I like the Boxster (otherwise I wouldn't drive one) but it has some flaws which are unacceptable in my opinion:

1. Power: The current Boxster S is nice and all but it feels lethargic in the upper rev range. 30 horses more and maybe a slightly higher rev limit would be perfect.

2. Design: The tail lights with the "integrated" rear wing are too stylish for a Porsche, the designers were toying around. Why didn't they use a similar design for the Carrera GT or the new 918? You get my point. I think the rear of the Boxster deserves a better and less playful design, it just doesn't go with the almost perfect design of the rest of the car.

3. Features: PTV (incl. LSD) should be standard. This is no 911, the traction issues are unacceptable for a Porsche. Also, on such an expensive car, the Bi-Xenon lights should be standard too. Same goes to RDK, a feature a safety aware company like Porsche should have offered as a standard option a long time ago (a real shame they didn't). The heated seats should be standard too, this is a roadster for god's sake. The Audiosystem CDR Plus should be also standard, same goes to a decent sound system, at least for the Boxster S.

4. Options: The color options are way too limited, the Boxster needs some "wild" color options which could be chosen from Porsche's PTS list. Waiting 6-12 months for a color choice is just unacceptable and quite frankly very customer unfriendly. Porsche should also think about option "packages" for the Boxster, especially for younger customers.

At a base price of slightly over 60k EUR, the Boxster S is actually a good offer. However, with the necessary options and some goodies, the price tag of this car can easily go over 90k EUR and even up to over 100k. This is just insane for a Boxster, sorry to say that.

Porsche is lucky that the competition doesn't really offer products at the same design/performance and "coolness" factor. However, this can change. The competition has gained a lot of ground in the past and Porsche needs to be careful not to ruin the reputation of the Boxster (already perceived in some circles as an expensive toy Porsche for housewives or a Porsche for those who cannot afford a 911). It would be easy to improve the perception by taking away some of the flaws I mentioned above. I do not think that a Boxster S with 340 hp would seriously hurt Carrera or Carrera Cab sales and I'm not even sure Porsche thinks that. The power gap to the 911 is too big and I also doubt that a Carrera driver would mind that a Boxster S with let's say 10 hp less than the Carrera is a bit faster. Nobody buys the standard Carrera because he is performance driven. 

I am glad that Porsche is not offering an entry level Boxster below the regular Boxster, in my opinion this would be suicide for the Boxster. Just imagine a Boxster with a turbo charged 220 hp 4-cyl. engine, who would spend 60k EUR for this car (with options)? Ridiculous. I am also a little bit worried about the new engine choices available with the facelift or the next generation. A turbo charged 4-cyl. is the wrong engine for a Boxster. Unless they would make the Boxster a 1000 kg car  but we all know this won't happen. 

The Cayman should get his own identity, like I said before. Maybe it has a chance to survive then.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)

My impressions

1. Power: The engine feels lethargic below 4000RPM and has a little problem between 2300-2700RPM. More Power in the upper range would be nice, but not so important for me. I want more power in the lower and middle rev range, that were I am driving 90% of th time, see point 5.

2. Design: I agree 100% with you RC

3. Features: Bi-Xenos are standard on the S, I would like to have a alcantara sport seat plus oder bucket seat option like it came typical on the GTS modells. I dont like leather seats. If PTV/LSD is not standard the catalog should express more the need of it, especially the LSD. Many people dont know about LSD and dont order it. One of the main points for me. Why I need to buy PCM to have a USB connector. I dont need a navi on a fun car, but need USB.

4. Options: Yes, more colors and option packages would be nice

And here the most important point for me:

5. Gearing: The gearing is to long. The gears 4 5 6 are very near together and therefor the gears 1 2 3 (and 4) to long for a sport car on norml streets. 2. gear goes to 125km/h 3. to 185km/h. On normal streets even the 2. can not used to it's maximum. Reving the 3. to the red line means you loose your licence. So it is difficult to use the power of the car which is above 4000rpm. That's why I wrote that i need more power in middle and lower range. Driving below 4000rpm the car feels less strong than a normal 200HP car like a Golf GTI or even a diesel like the BMW 123d (which I use a daily driver). I dont use the car on the autobahn.....

981 Boxster S (PCCB, PASM, PTV, SportChrono, Bose, ventilated heated sport seats plus, PCM, full leather with some X Options, .....)

acky:

My impressions

1. Power: The engine feels lethargic below 4000RPM and has a little problem between 2300-2700RPM. More Power in the upper range would be nice, but not so important for me. I want more power in the lower and middle rev range, that were I am driving 90% of th time, see point 5.

2. Design: I agree 100% with you RC

3. Features: Bi-Xenos are standard on the S, I would like to have a alcantara sport seat plus oder bucket seat option like it came typical on the GTS modells. I dont like leather seats. If PTV/LSD is not standard the catalog should express more the need of it, especially the LSD. Many people dont know about LSD and dont order it. One of the main points for me. Why I need to buy PCM to have a USB connector. I dont need a navi on a fun car, but need USB.

4. Options: Yes, more colors and option packages would be nice

And here the most important point for me:

5. Gearing: The gearing is to long. The gears 4 5 6 are very near together and therefor the gears 1 2 3 (and 4) to long for a sport car on norml streets. 2. gear goes to 125km/h 3. to 185km/h. On normal streets even the 2. can not used to it's maximum. Reving the 3. to the red line means you loose your licence. So it is difficult to use the power of the car which is above 4000rpm. That's why I wrote that i need more power in middle and lower range. Driving below 4000rpm the car feels less strong than a normal 200HP car like a Golf GTI or even a diesel like the BMW 123d (which I use a daily driver). I dont use the car on the autobahn.....

 

I think you actually want more torque and you actually delivered the best argument for Porsche to offer a turbo charged engine in the Boxster. 

Personally, I don't want more torque because this means I have to rev higher and the sound gets nicer.  As to the gearing, well...you are not wrong. Still not bothering me too much. I want more power in the upper rev range, so the car feels more like a GT3 and not like a Carrera. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)

RC:

Personally, I don't want more torque because this means I have to rev higher and the sound gets nicer.  As to the gearing, well...you are not wrong. Still not bothering me too much. I want more power in the upper rev range, so the car feels more like a GT3 and not like a Carrera. 

I don't want more torque either. I want high rev

2014 981 Boxster S | Riviera Blue | PDK | Sport Suspension (-20mm) | PCCB | PTV | PSE
2010 997.2 C2S | Carrara White | Manual | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE | OZ Superforgiata
2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White

Previous
2008 997.1 C4S | Guards Red | Manual | PSE | Bilstein PSS10 | H&R Roll Bars | Dension 500
2007 997.1 Turbo | Meteor Gray | Manual | Bilstein PSS10 | Cargraphic Stage 2 | Dension 500
2005 987.1 Boxster S | Arctic Silver | Manual | OZ Ultraleggera | H&R Cup Suspension | H&R Roll Bars | Sachs Racing Clutch | Recaro Shells
2005 997.1 C2S | Atlas Gray | Manual | PSE | Sport Suspension (-20mm)

bluelines:

RC:

Personally, I don't want more torque because this means I have to rev higher and the sound gets nicer.  As to the gearing, well...you are not wrong. Still not bothering me too much. I want more power in the upper rev range, so the car feels more like a GT3 and not like a Carrera. 

I don't want more torque either. I want high rev

 Actually, the higher revving fits the Boxster pretty well, it just "marks" it's sporty character. A turbo charged engine may not be the best choice for the Boxster. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)

I completely agree with acky. Torque is what is missing in all of Porsche N/A engines. (Also 991 3.8 engine) If Porsche would offer a 4cil compressor engine (not a turbo, compressor doesn't take away sound)  in the Boxster, I would trade my car in a heartbeat! Would be nice if it was a flat-4 of course... Otherwise the name Boxster doesn't make sense anymore.

I don't want a car that only feels fast when it is revved all the time. If I want that, I'll buy myself a GT3 and a jig saw to get rid of the stupid spoiler!  75% of the driving I do, is not like i have stolen the car, but are just normal sporty drives. 

Regarding the rear spoiler that's integrated in the taillights.... That is the one thing I absolutely LOVE about the Boxster.  The rear is the best part of the car IMO. I would like to see a different front, especially the headlights.

BTW acky, you don't need PCM with nav to get USB. CDR audiosystem offers also USB for half the price of PCM.

Suzy

2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basalt black metallic
2014 Audi A6 Avant 3.0 BiTDI Quattro | Moonshine blue metallic
 

Suzy, you will love the new turbo engines in the 991 then.  Torque is rumored to be increased by 200 Nm.

Regarding the rear: It is way too stylish. I don't want to start a man vs. woman perception discussion because it may not even be accurate (my wife isn't a fan of the rear either) but for a Porsche, the rear is just too playful. As if the designers had to make a point without the necessity for it. 

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)

SuzyF:

Regarding the rear spoiler that's integrated in the taillights.... That is the one thing I absolutely LOVE about the Boxster.  The rear is the best part of the car IMO. I would like to see a different front, especially the headlights.

+981

2014 981 Boxster S | Riviera Blue | PDK | Sport Suspension (-20mm) | PCCB | PTV | PSE
2010 997.2 C2S | Carrara White | Manual | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE | OZ Superforgiata
2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White

Previous
2008 997.1 C4S | Guards Red | Manual | PSE | Bilstein PSS10 | H&R Roll Bars | Dension 500
2007 997.1 Turbo | Meteor Gray | Manual | Bilstein PSS10 | Cargraphic Stage 2 | Dension 500
2005 987.1 Boxster S | Arctic Silver | Manual | OZ Ultraleggera | H&R Cup Suspension | H&R Roll Bars | Sachs Racing Clutch | Recaro Shells
2005 997.1 C2S | Atlas Gray | Manual | PSE | Sport Suspension (-20mm)

Different people, different tastes

High rev <-> more torque: daily use more torque please, Sunday morning drive in the Alps more revs. Maybe a new function for the sport mode button …

Back of the car: first I was not completely convinced. Now I think that is the highlight of the car.

Front of the car: I don’t like the design of the lights (Toyota MR2), but everything else is great. The GTS spy pics do not show an improvement, not my taste

SuzyF:BTW acky, you don't need PCM with nav to get USB. CDR audiosystem offers also USB for half the price of PCM.

Yes, but only CDR plus has the USB connector. But this came around June 2013. I got my car before in may.

981 Boxster S (PCCB, PASM, PTV, SportChrono, Bose, ventilated heated sport seats plus, PCM, full leather with some X Options, .....)

CDR plus also includes DAB radio and Sound Package Plus in the UK, so is a good deal, relatively speaking.

RC:

Suzy, you will love the new turbo engines in the 991 then.  Torque is rumored to be increased by 200 Nm.

Regarding the rear: It is way too stylish. I don't want to start a man vs. woman perception discussion because it may not even be accurate (my wife isn't a fan of the rear either) but for a Porsche, the rear is just too playful. As if the designers had to make a point without the necessity for it. 

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)

Maybe it's not a male vs female argument here, but young vs old?  Personally I love it. Perhaps it is your German conservatism vs others' love for more avantgarde designs. I for one like the "over styling" of the rear. It differentiates it from other Porsche models.  I don't want Porsche to be like Audi where they are all so similar!

After more than a year with my S I tend to agree with most of your points RC with the possible exceptions of the looks of the car which I'd not touch. The main and easy 'fix' would be to just make the S engine the same as the Carrera perhaps with additional radiator in the front for the extra heat if needed. The option Xenons should be standard because passing off the lower powered standard Xenons as good lights is misrepresenting them. 

I agree that it wouldn't harm base Carrera sales too much as most people who want a 911 will buy one anyway and if they buy the base it isn't because its faster than a Boxster. But it would help lift the Boxster out of its reputation as a cheap shopping car.

Much more turbo torque is just what it doesn't need IMHO. The car has enough trouble dealing with S levels of torque on anything other than a dry road. Give it the N/A engine it deserves and it would be just fine. 

And for goodness sake stop penny pinching and give it heated seats and put the lights back in the sun visors as standard! 

...and regarding the Cayman Boxster pricing thing I think it is easy to solve maintaining the same price. The Cayman is positioned as a taught sharper handling car on a Boxster chassis so why not add all the chassis options like PASM LSD PTV, some fancy lighter wheels sport seats, steering wheel, sport-chrono and make them standard. Give the option to go for comfort seats as no cost option etc and give more bang for the buck.

Or if they don't want to do that then put the Boxster up a couple of thousand and the Cayman down a couple of thousand (same price)  and have done with it. I think that the Boxster would easily bear a small lift in price with a couple of spec tweaks and it wouldn't hurt the Cayman to chip the price a bit.

Press embargo ends on the 19th supposedly, so not long til we see what's on offer..

2011 987S, 1964 Type 1

DaveGordon:

Press embargo ends on the 19th supposedly, so not long til we see what's on offer..

Yes, the disappointment date is getting closer and closer 

2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE
2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White

I love the latest Boxster, I huge improvement on the 987, but a four cylinder version would be a complete turn off for me.

Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Skoda Octavia Mk.3 daily drive

dreamcar:

I love the latest Boxster, I huge improvement on the 987, but a four cylinder version would be a complete turn off for me.

If really like the idea of a turbocharged 4-cylinder. Yes I like the flat-6 sound, but the engine just feels underpowered when driving in normal traffic at normal speeds. Spirited driving is great, as long as you can keep the revs above 4000, but in normal traffic that doesn't always work and then the car gets pretty annoying sometimes. (Although a PDK would probably make it a little less annoying i guess).

There's just one problem... They have to make a flat-4, because if it is a V4, then the name "Boxster" sounds a little odd.

Suzy

2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basalt black metallic
2014 Audi A6 Avant 3.0 BiTDI Quattro | Moonshine blue metallic
 

bluelines:

DaveGordon:

Press embargo ends on the 19th supposedly, so not long til we see what's on offer..

Yes, the disappointment date is getting closer and closer 

I'm mostly just curious what the "interior elements" are. They did a nice job of this on the 997 GTS after all. Perhaps some of the different bi-colour options that are appearing on other models?

2011 987S, 1964 Type 1

Off Topic I know but how is your Car Hunt going DC? Have you looked at the 235im or whatever it's called. OK the seats will probably not work for SWMBO but would be fun to take for a lone test drive, no? And report back? 

Woolfe:

Off Topic I know but how is your Car Hunt going DC? Have you looked at the 235im or whatever it's called. OK the seats will probably not work for SWMBO but would be fun to take for a lone test drive, no? And report back? 

Succesfully abandoned for the time being thanks Woolfe  - keeping the 997 for another couple of years.  and have the service done in September and a further two year extended warranty.  Trying various so - called hotches such as the M135i and Audi S3 made us realise that it is simply not an option going from a 911 - or any Porsche probably - to another lesser car with sporty pretensions. When the time comes will probably go for something completely different in character.

Taking the car in on Friday to have the road wheels refurbished, not kerbed but the previous owner never cleaned them properly and the ingrained brake dust has badly disfigured them. Got a good price for this job from Porsche Centre Swindon (Dick Lovett) where we bought the car. Also having the navigation map updated now that the ridiculous asking price has dropped from £500 to £150. I've asked for a 991 loan car whilst the car is in - but requesting such a car for a five day period is a pretty big ask.....

--

Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Skoda Octavia Mk.3 daily drive

I suspect a 5 day extended test drive of 991 may well become an itch too far.... 

991 (what a car!) XC90 - Black/Black 2 kids, 1 dog

bridggar:

I suspect a 5 day extended test drive of 991 may well become an itch too far.... 

+1

2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE
2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White

bridggar:

I suspect a 5 day extended test drive of 991 may well become an itch too far.... 

I suspect you are correct - and knowing how I don't resist itches too well they might lend me one.....

..although I suspect a 1 series BMW is more likely!  Of course if I'm lucky, photos and impressions will find themselves here!

--

Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Skoda Octavia Mk.3 daily drive

Make sure they do!!

991 (what a car!) XC90 - Black/Black 2 kids, 1 dog