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    Re: Friend of mine just drove it...

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    GT said:
    Hey Nick, read some post of yours a while a go where you were mentioning your track experience etc. One question for you; have you ever driven a 996tt and compare it to say a 360?
    Happened to do just that a while ago, one after the other, on the same B roads, with the 360 owner as co passenger. Well apart from the noise and the head turing ability the F car was inferior in everything! Power, brakes, balance, handling, traction, electronics and consequently FUN! It felt like you had to be Ari Vatanen to push the car to the limit with any safety and even then the 360 could not match the pace of the turbo. And all that with a harsh ride quality and really impractical in just about everything. Have you ever compared Ps and Fs as cars and not status symbols? And if yes then what did you think, I would honestly like to know.
    I was really hoping I would like the 360 since after four 911s I really wanted to change into something else but never something inferior.
    So do you think the F cars will ever get to the level of the P cars? And I dont mean in the "show off dpt" but in their real abilities as cars..?



    I have driven the 996TT on a couple of occasions and found it to be as sterile of a sport car you will find any where. No doubt it has performance. But with AWD drive and turbo delay, I found it a rather sad experience for someone who wants to enjoy inspiring and intoxicating driving.

    The car was just boring. Drivng fast in a TT is like riding in an airplane. You may be going fast but there is absolutely no sensation or feeling of speed. You might as well be driving a MB AMG65.

    GT, a Ferrari is not for everyone. It is not a practical car but certainly is a car that can handle daily driving. In the past, that was not the case.

    The reason why I moved to Ferrari is because driving it is an event. It evokes emotion and passion which translates to stimulating driving. Given that performance is limited on public streets, it is the perfect car for me. Nothing can be more invigorating then driving a Ferrari and not worriying about speed traps, police monitoring or cameras.

    Finally, regarding Ferrari "catching up with Porsche" God I hope not.



    Sterile? No way. Actually, I find the non-linear torque curve of the 996TT more lively and fun than any NA car. Even before I tuned mine up, the most fun was feeling the car thrust forward pushing my (and my passengers' ) heads against the seat back at 4,000rpm, without flooring the throttle. Now with the car tuned up and closer to its potential, plus with a sport exhaust with just a few more decibels than stock, the thrust between 2,500 and 4,000rpm's is phenomenal, especially in second gear when the GIAC program kicks the K24's to 1.2BAR and 30-80mph blips on the digital speedo readout in a flash. This is actually one reason I plan to keep this car even after a get a 997TT (looking more and more like a 997TSCab, ?2008). I almost "worry" ( ) that that car will just be fast all the time, with no skill required to extract the performance out of the torque curve as in my 996TSCab.

    One other thing, just because none of us will drive any of these cars anywhere close to 90% of their limits, does NOT mean that it won't be easier to drive a faster car at 75% of its limit. In other words, a faster car in my amateur hands is faster (and thus more fun) at 75% of ITS limit than a slower car at 75% of ITS limit. That's why all of these 'Ring times ARE indeed important for us mere civilians, because we can more easily and more safely drive faster well below the cars' abilities. Just because Rohrl and von Saurma could lap the 'Ring in a stock Ford Escort faster than I in my tuned 996TSCab (I believe ), doesn't mean that I won't have more fun (purely on the basis of performance) in my Porsche than I would in the Escort (on my local roads). And I bet you feel the same in your sweet 430Spider.

    Re: I understand your comments, Nick

    Quote:
    Targa Tim said:
    Quote:
    Alan(NJ) said:

    I'm expecting more driving fun, more passion and spirit and less of the "supercar appliance" feel. If the 997tt only is fun over the 100mph mark, it'll be the wrong car for me.



    After viewing the GT3 video on the 997 forum, I think the new GT3 will be more driving fun than the TT. Of course it is just my thoughts as I haven't driven either cars. So don't shoot me.



    Yes, I agree. The GT3 starts to look more attractive than the Turbo.

    Re: I understand your comments, Nick

    Quote:
    bluelines said:
    Quote:
    Targa Tim said:
    Quote:
    Alan(NJ) said:

    I'm expecting more driving fun, more passion and spirit and less of the "supercar appliance" feel. If the 997tt only is fun over the 100mph mark, it'll be the wrong car for me.



    After viewing the GT3 video on the 997 forum, I think the new GT3 will be more driving fun than the TT. Of course it is just my thoughts as I haven't driven either cars. So don't shoot me.



    Yes, I agree. The GT3 starts to look more attractive than the Turbo.


    agree!!

    Re: Friend of mine just drove it...

    I have a 99.9999% idea of who this car dealer is..putting 2+2 together, the fact he is a well known independent and you are in London..trust me, his bullshit level is legendary, truly amongst the top ranking percentile of bullshitters..great company though, I do enjoy talking to him and hearing his bullshit stories..!

    Re: Friend of mine just drove it...

    Haha! As I'm typing my previous post I just remembered a story this character once told me about having dinner with Enzo Ferrari, he thought around 1990..!

    Re: Friend of mine just drove it...

    Well you know CGT I am not sure its the same guy.. This guy is S.European (not english nor german) and his initials are C.A.. So is it the same guy you re referring to?
    PS Grilled him a bit more about this and he insists he is not lying!! He agrees that this car should not have been in circulation but he wont admit to lying.. Weird staff

    Re: Friend of mine just drove it...

    Gt, he's a liar man! Forget it...a lot of wanna-be's are going to be spouting rubbish about driving the car months in advance of official release date.

    Why would P give him the car - of all the people in the world?

    Re: I understand your comments, Nick

    Quote:
    Alan(NJ) said:
    I owned 2 996tt's and overall was disappointed with the experience. The stock 996tt suspension tended towards harshness and yet was overly floaty in the curves (too much vertical motion). The acceleration was impressive but only when you wound the car up and the turbos had their chance spool. And the sound of the stock exhaust was pathetic. It was easy to fix the faults with the X73 suspension, chip, exhaust etc, but quite frankly my current 987S gives me more of the passion that you write about than the stock 996tts.

    All that said, I'm trying again with the 997tt because I think (I hope) that those that think that there isn't going to be much of a difference between the stock 996tt and 997tt are very wrong.

    I'm expecting more driving fun, more passion and spirit and less of the "supercar appliance" feel. If the 997tt only is fun over the 100mph mark, it'll be the wrong car for me.



    Alan, the 996 Turbo had one "problem": it was too good and too forgiving. Let me explain: a lot of people who drove and/or owned a 996 Turbo, didn't like it because it was "too easy to drive". Well, it was easy to drive fast, no doubt about it. BUT: there was that extra "kick" which came in only after you passed a certain limit. A limit which I'd say 99% of the drivers/owners never experienced.

    That said, the 997 Turbo will be even more disappointing because Porsche put a lot of work into making it even more forgiving and perfect. BUT like with the 996 Turbo...if you pass that "magic barrier", this car can really turn you on. Did you see the video of the 997 Turbo in Weissach? It was done on wet pavement at temperatures slightly above zero degrees celsius (note the snow). And this car was driving on summer tires. Now try to "transfer" these driving dynamics to dry and much warmer pavement. Can you imagine what a good driver can do with this car? Unbelievable.

    This is one reason why people seem to be more fascinated by the GT3, because the GT3 is less forgiving and less "safe".
    Drivers are feeling more connected to the street and they have the impression that driving dynamics are experienced much more direct. But the truth is: in the hands of a halfway talented amateur driver, a 997 Turbo will always be faster than a GT3 in the hands of the same driver. The only difference is that at 80 mph in the GT3, you have the same feeling in the 997 Turbo at 120 mph...if you get my point.

    Now the big question is: what do you want? Do you want to BE fast or do you want to FEEL fast? The choice is yours. Most people would probably prefer the second choice because the first one would put a lot of us into serious trouble, including possible crashes, lost driver's licenses and other nasty things.

    Re: I understand your comments, Nick

    RC, are you saying that the 997TT might be too good to enjoy?

    For the GT3 its attraction is that it seems like it might be more connected to the driver and more fun to drive. A slightly lumpy idle, a better exhaust, more seat of the pants feel and more direct responses seem like the right recipe for a sports car.

    Since the GT3 has a more advanced version of PASM that from all reports is the best PASM ever for street and track, it seems like quite the car.

    And I understand your comments, RC

    I spent an hour driving the 996 GT3 and knew that it would be a short lived love affair if I bought it. Too harsh, too noisy, too over the top for NJ roads. On the other hand, I find alot of passion in my 987S and maybe you hit the nail on the head, because you can extract the fun at lower performance limits. I really did toy with the idea of a F-car for the reason Nick mentioned, that at any speed it's an adrenilin rush, but I can't get past the Ferrari image (not to mention, I'll be darned if I'm going to spend 150K plus for a used car because they won't sell me a new one).
    I'm hoping that you're incorrect about the 997tt and that even though it's more perfect, I'm hoping that it stirs my soul. If the 997tt doesn't tickle me, next up is a Cayman with a "heart transplant (the car, not me)"

    Re: And I understand your comments, RC

    Quote:
    Alan(NJ) said:
    I spent an hour driving the 996 GT3 and knew that it would be a short lived love affair if I bought it. Too harsh, too noisy, too over the top for NJ roads. On the other hand, I find alot of passion in my 987S and maybe you hit the nail on the head, because you can extract the fun at lower performance limits. I really did toy with the idea of a F-car for the reason Nick mentioned, that at any speed it's an adrenilin rush, but I can't get past the Ferrari image (not to mention, I'll be darned if I'm going to spend 150K plus for a used car because they won't sell me a new one).
    I'm hoping that you're incorrect about the 997tt and that even though it's more perfect, I'm hoping that it stirs my soul. If the 997tt doesn't tickle me, next up is a Cayman with a "heart transplant (the car, not me)"



    My dealer points out that the CGT engine "fits" into the Cayman, with "similar" electronics, I think a tuner somewhere in Jersey does an operation with cardiac transplant, and neurological reprogramming-presumably some orthopedic work (clutch, for example), vascular procedures (fuel line) plus pulmonary (exhaust) are needed, as well.

    I merely did some pulmonary, neurological and orthopedic upgrades to my 2005 996TSCab (headers, hoses, diverter valves, exhaust, chip for the engine and turbo boost, plus clutch), but no dermatological stuff (pimping), and it sure makes the wait for a 997TSCab easy.

     
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