Crown

That is the whole point... If one wants a 911, the chance is not very big that person wants a 458 or a Mclaren or that Lamborghini. It woulldn't even come to my mind to think about it to be honest. Like I said many times... i don't want a Ferrari, I don't want a Lamborghini and I certainly don't want a McLaren. I want a Porsche... That's what I always wanted... Never dreamed if owning a McLaren. I don't care if it is a "better" car.... I don't care if a car is 0.2 sec. faster to 60. The only sportscar I would consider besides a Porsche is an Audi R8. Why? Only because I like the brand and I feel at home in every Audi. 

it's a different story if someone doesn't mind what brand it is, but just want a good sportscar or supercar. That person will definitely go compare it and decide what he or she wants.  But I don't think there are that many people that don't have "something" with a specific brand, no matter what brand that is.

Suzy

 

i understand. it takes a lot of courage to venture out of one's comfort zone.

i always wanted a porsche myself and i was so happy when i could afford my first one. now the only porsche i would consider buying is a GT3 or a boxster/cayman, the others are - at least as i see it - derivatives of the panamera, obtained from it by clever morphing programs which involve shrinking and squeezing (i don't even take into account the cayenne and newer versions of it). 

end of rant.

andyFE:

i understand. it takes a lot of courage to venture out of one's comfort zone.

i always wanted a porsche myself and i was so happy when i could afford my first one. now the only porsche i would consider buying is a GT3 or a boxster/cayman, the others are - at least as i see it - derivatives of the panamera, obtained from it by clever morphing programs which involve shrinking and squeezing (i don't even take into account the cayenne and newer versions of it). 

end of rant.

That's your point of view and that's fine.  For me it doesn't have anything to do with coming out of my comfort zone. I just like to buy what I like. I use an iPhone, not because it is the best phone there is, but because it's the one I like the most in terms of style. It's a reflection of my personallity. Why do people buy Bang & Olufsen TVs, while a Samsung TV is probably equally good, a lot cheaper and looks nice too? 

I like the "panamera style interior" in the 991. In fact... For my personal preference, I would even like the car to be even more luxurious. Besides that... The Cayman/Boxster has almost the same interior (little bit less leather) than a 991 so I don't see why one does like a 981's interior, but doesn't like a 991 interior... The center console is even exactly the same partnumber! The exterior is a different thing and just a matter of taste.

The most important thing is that one is happy with the car they drive. For you that is a 458. Absolutely nothing wrong with that.  For me, if it had to be my daily driver, i would be most happy with a 991. Also nothing wrong with that. It's a good thing that various people have preferences for various brands. That's what gives those brands the right to exist.

--

Suzy

 

SuzyF:

That 's nothing more than an idiot driving irresponsible...  Just my humble opinion of course.

+1 he probably chose that route particularly in the night and seeing the lights when somebody comes helpes a lot vs day driving - plus being a B&O buyer it's not about the Panel - but the "engine" behind driving it.... -  so trust me there is a difference - next to components of how the frame is being build etc etc. This is like saying a basic boxster does everything too....yes BUT...

we all like variety and i certainly would not like all those turbo S buyers to go out and try to buy ferraris. then luca would increase production instead of decreasing it and dilute the brand value:::)))))

btw, i never said that i like the boxster interior, i meant i could live with the boxster S on an overall basis. i do like the 918 interior though and as RC said, i hope that porsche will go down that route in the future.

BjoernB:

+1 he probably chose that route particularly in the night and seeing the lights when somebody comes helpes a lot vs day driving - plus being a B&O buyer it's not about the Panel - but the "engine" behind driving it.... -  so trust me there is a difference - next to components of how the frame is being build etc etc. This is like saying a basic boxster does everything too....yes BUT...

FYI.... I'm a B&O buyer too  I just gave it as an example. A Samsung or LG TV does the same... Quality isn't that much better from B&O but still I will buy it, not for only the "engine" behind it, but also because I like the brand. 

Regarding that movie... Watched it again (this time I watched it untill the end instead of some short parts) and I have to apologize to AndyFE. The driver does nos not drive as irresponsible and dangerous as I was thinking. Like  i said, I didn't watch the whole movie yesterday, but only quick parts and I gave my opinion too quickly.

...So AndyFE or Peter or whatever your name is... I'm sorry. 

--

Suzy

 

andyFE:

here is to winter driving capabilities of the 458:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfQhKOB2WWU

 

Great drive and driver   this, contrary to what is said here several times, really shows how capable a sports RWD is on that conditions, simply amazing, thanks for sharing.

J.Seven

SuzyF:

BjoernB:

+1 he probably chose that route particularly in the night and seeing the lights when somebody comes helpes a lot vs day driving - plus being a B&O buyer it's not about the Panel - but the "engine" behind driving it.... -  so trust me there is a difference - next to components of how the frame is being build etc etc. This is like saying a basic boxster does everything too....yes BUT...

FYI.... I'm a B&O buyer too  I just gave it as an example. A Samsung or LG TV does the same... Quality isn't that much better from B&O but still I will buy it, not for only the "engine" behind it, but also because I like the brand. 

Regarding that movie... Watched it again (this time I watched it untill the end instead of some short parts) and I have to apologize to AndyFE. The driver does nos not drive as irresponsible and dangerous as I was thinking. Like  i said, I didn't watch the whole movie yesterday, but only quick parts and I gave my opinion too quickly.

...So AndyFE or Peter or whatever your name is... I'm sorry. 

--

Suzy

 

no offense at all, we are having interesting opinion exchanges.....this is what internet forums are all about.

J.Seven:

andyFE:

here is to winter driving capabilities of the 458:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfQhKOB2WWU

 

Great drive and driver   this, contrary to what is said here several times, really shows how capable a sports RWD is on that conditions, simply amazing, thanks for sharing.

J.Seven

It would be helpful to know at what speed the car was traveling, in order to put things in perspective? The engine noise gives an impression of high speed but the car doesn't seem to cover distance quickly.

My conclusion: modern winter tyres are very effective.

--

"Form follows function"

I had a 458 driver (with winter tires) follow me in my Panamera Turbo S last year and I can assure you that he wasn't even close to my speeds in curves and turns. He always fell back and only picked up in the straights (so yes, he was trying hard). I'm not impressed at all with the 458 winter driving capabilities but of course, like almost every car on this planet, it can be driven in winter time with winter tires. This doesn't mean it is good in winter time or any fun.

The video posted was nothing special, just someone driving a deserted winter road. I did similar things in my Cayenne GTS last year (after I received the car) and I doubt I was slower. Maybe I should mount my GoPro cam once in a while to prove my point but public roads aren't really the place I want to do this stuff.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

reginos:

My conclusion: modern winter tyres are very effective.

"Form follows function"

Reginos, I´m sure if it was a 997.2S like ours on the video you wouldn´t make the same comment 

J.Seven

J.Seven:

reginos:

My conclusion: modern winter tyres are very effective.

"Form follows function"

Reginos, I´m sure if it was a 997.2S like ours on the video you wouldn´t make the same comment 

J.Seven

Our cars would have done the same route on summer tyres 

--

"Form follows function"

RC:

I had a 458 driver (with winter tires) follow me in my Panamera Turbo S last year and I can assure you that he wasn't even close to my speeds in curves and turns. He always fell back and only picked up in the straights (so yes, he was trying hard). I'm not impressed at all with the 458 winter driving capabilities but of course, like almost every car on this planet, it can be driven in winter time with winter tires. This doesn't mean it is good in winter time or any fun.

The video posted was nothing special, just someone driving a deserted winter road. I did similar things in my Cayenne GTS last year (after I received the car) and I doubt I was slower. Maybe I should mount my GoPro cam once in a while to prove my point but public roads aren't really the place I want to do this stuff.

the ferrari driver had certainly more fun in his 458 than you in the big whale---)))))) but apparently you just cannot appreciate that speed and driving pleasure are not synonymous.  i give up......

andyFE:

the ferrari driver had certainly more fun in his 458 than you in the big whale---)))))) but apparently you just cannot appreciate that speed and driving pleasure are not synonymous.  i give up......

I rather think you are trying to make a point...in the wrong forum.  

As to the "big whale", I heard that many times from drivers of true sports cars and they were pretty stunned how the big whale actually made them cry. In my Cayenne Turbo S days, I was eating sports cars for breakfast and this was the biggest fun of all. Not talking about the Autobahn.    There is no more fun to be fast in a Cayenne Turbo (or GTS for that matter) when people actually expect you to be slow and...like you said...a "big whale". Surprise, surprise... The challenge is actually to be fast in a big whale rather than in a light sports car where actually everyone can be fast...up to a point. Then, the fun starts (for me). 

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

for me the fun is to understand what the car tells me about the road, how it reads the road etc. i am not interested in a car which devour roads without telling me what is going on.

anyway, i rest my case with you RC. we can agree to disagree.

andyFE:

for me the fun is to understand what the car tells me about the road, how it reads the road etc. i am not interested in a car which devour roads without telling me what is going on.

anyway, i rest my case with you RC. we can agree to disagree.

I am interested in a challenge but one I can control. Obviously you have never driven a Cayenne GTS because it actually provides more feedback than a McLaren 12C. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

well, then maybe sportcars should all look like trucks from now on-----))))

anyway, porsche certainly did an admirable job in overcoming physics to make that 2+ ton cube-shaped thing turn in at all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Agq4je0XICA

repost ?? 

RC:

I am interested in a challenge but one I can control. Obviously you have never driven a Cayenne GTS because it actually provides more feedback than a McLaren 12C. 

Not so sure about this statement. I've driven both.

NelsonF:

RC:

I am interested in a challenge but one I can control. Obviously you have never driven a Cayenne GTS because it actually provides more feedback than a McLaren 12C. 

Not so sure about this statement. I've driven both.

i am sure about this statement.....i have driven both as well. the 12C is not my favorite drive....but boy ...compare it to ........the porsche SUV ??????  2.2tons against 1.4tons..sounds like a wresting game of sorts. 

NelsonF:

RC:

I am interested in a challenge but one I can control. Obviously you have never driven a Cayenne GTS because it actually provides more feedback than a McLaren 12C. 

Not so sure about this statement. I've driven both.

i own both, well a cayenne turbo and a 12c and to even bring up the 12c in the same sentence with the cayenne, is really funny, i love my cayenne turbo especially in sport mode it will kill most anything on the road but the 12c is in a completely different league, no wait, completely different universe, but still funny to read....

--

2011 CTT, 2013 12C Spider, 2013 A5 cab, 2014 4Runner Trail Edition

AAHTT:

NelsonF:

RC:

I am interested in a challenge but one I can control. Obviously you have never driven a Cayenne GTS because it actually provides more feedback than a McLaren 12C. 

Not so sure about this statement. I've driven both.

i own both, well a cayenne turbo and a 12c and to even bring up the 12c in the same sentence with the cayenne, is really funny, i love my cayenne turbo especially in sport mode it will kill most anything on the road but the 12c is in a completely different league, no wait, completely different universe, but still funny to read....

--

2011 CTT, 2013 12C Spider, 2013 A5 cab, 2014 4Runner Trail Edition

 

 

Me too and +1

The Cayenne Turbo has a completely different steering/chassis feel than the GTS and yes, I actually find the steering feel of the Cayenne GTS to be more direct than the synthetic steering feel of the 12C. I was talking about steering feel, not that the Cayenne GTS feels sportier than the 12C.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

mc3744:

Later today I got my Turbo S back. For all the headaches I've had so far it's truly a beauty!

They say it was a software problem affecting the differential and an update has been released for all the Turbo S.
As of yesterday they also released two new Turbo S that were waiting for the fix.
I have no way of knowing whether it's true or not. But I saw one of the two Turbos now on display at the dealer.

Unfortunately I didn't have time to actually drive the car today (apart from taking it back from the dealer). Not sure when I'll be able to, but I'm hopeful the problem is solved for good.

Porsche Italy sent me a fax apologizing for the "discomfort" I experienced and I've been given as present a 911 Turbo watch. I did appreciate the gesture, while I spent some more 6.5k Euro on winter wheels! ;) I surely hope there won't be any more need for damage control from Porsche! :)

I look forward to my first trip (next week) with my long awaited toy! 

So far, there is a software update for the AWS ECU. The AWS (all-wheel-steering) can go into emergency mode, thus shutting off, under certain driving conditions at lower speeds. The update will be executed tomorrow on my car.

Otherwise, there doesn't seem to be any update available, so maybe this is what your dealer was referring to?

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

RC:

The Cayenne Turbo has a completely different steering/chassis feel than the GTS and yes, I actually find the steering feel of the Cayenne GTS to be more direct than the synthetic steering feel of the 12C. I was talking about steering feel, not that the Cayenne GTS feels sportier than the 12C.

I have not yet had the good fortune to drive a 12C, but I am very disappointed to think that its steering feel might be synthetic.  Their approach to power steering is the one Porsche should've used in the 991 (and has used in its Cup and RSR race cars for year), hydraulic assist provided by turning the pump with an electric motor.  Sure wish they would've done that for the new GT3 (if not all the 911 models).

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

For those interested in 20" Sport Classic wheels-991 Turbo cabrio with Sport Classics in Black. IMHO way better then CL wheels...

Not a fan of the Sport Classic wheels, I think they are too "massive" for the 991 but the Cab looks really nice, even with that additional hump.

Btw: In Germany, it seems that the Turbo S has higher demand at Porsche dealers than the GT3, which seems to be quite surprising for many dealers. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

Grant:

RC:

The Cayenne Turbo has a completely different steering/chassis feel than the GTS and yes, I actually find the steering feel of the Cayenne GTS to be more direct than the synthetic steering feel of the 12C. I was talking about steering feel, not that the Cayenne GTS feels sportier than the 12C.

I have not yet had the good fortune to drive a 12C, but I am very disappointed to think that its steering feel might be synthetic.  Their approach to power steering is the one Porsche should've used in the 991 (and has used in its Cup and RSR race cars for year), hydraulic assist provided by turning the pump with an electric motor.  Sure wish they would've done that for the new GT3 (if not all the 911 models).

you need to drive one and then report back. i think the feel is as good as my old 997TT if not better. back to 991TT.... 

2011 CTT, 2013 12C Spider, 2013 A5 cab, 2014 4Runner Trail Edition

Never driven above 240kph, and no desire to on public road. Too many thing can happen at these speeds especially other drivers who don't see you...

There is something about the CayenneTT and TTS hard to explain, it is fun to drive, more fun than the Panamera IMHO. But is has to do with "this SUV can do that???" feeling.