Crown

FlatSix911:

For me, the added usability and all-weather capabilities of the 991TTS put it head and shoulders above its competition in terms of appeal.

Moreover, the fact that some competitors might be marginally faster at some speed ranges is immaterial to me. Put a Turbo on a tight, wet and not perfectly surfaced road and none of these cars will know which way the Turbo went.

 

It is also interesting that CH seems to feel more attached to the road in the turbo S. With all its electronics, AWS etc. it is a clear indicator how synthetic the McLaren still feels in its last form. When I compared it to the GT2RS the last time I also disliked the electronics (suspension, gearbox) but thought it might be a relative disadvantage to more "analog" cars like the GTs only. Now it appears that even the new turbo S feels more "analog" compared to the latest version of the McLaren. Very interesting video 

mc3744:

RC:

This is why I do not understand those owners who drive with Sport Plus mode on the Autobahn, it doesn't make any sense and only results in more downforce, thus making them slower in the upper speed range. Yes, the 991 Turbo S looks cool with the rear wing and front lip fully deployed but otherwise, there is a huge disadvantage. Sport Plus mode is great for the track and country roads and speeds below 200 kph or so but not for the Autobahn. Keep that in mind.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

Good to know. But what about the extra power boost with Sport Plus engaged?
Is the extra aerodynamic drag not worth the extra power?

 

There is no extra power boost with Sport Plus. The boost pressure incl. overboost is the same as with Sport mode.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

MKSGR:

Now it appears that even the new turbo S feels more "analog" compared to the latest version of the McLaren. Very interesting video 

Porsche put a lot of development work into the new Turbo and also relied a lot on feedback from customers to improve the car.  It may not be perfect but keep in mind that they will improve the Turbo models further over the next couple of years, so I am pretty confident that they will reach an unprecedented level of perfection with the facelift. 

With 600 hp, a throatier exhaust sound below 3000 rpm and a better start-off from standstill (without launch control), the new Turbo S would be perfect. Absolutely perfect.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

mc3744:

Bottom line. There are quite some great cars out there. It depends what you need, there isn't a best one for everything ... again in my very humble opinion.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

Mclaren Shift into long 6 the gear around 280kmh. acceleration on 6th gear Looks rather slow and Top Speed is reatched almost in 6th gear i think.

anybody noticed that 0-250 km/h the mp4, aventador, f12 and 991 turbo s are all around with in 3 secs aprox. (14-17sec), but the big gap happens after those Speed. Example the f12 needs from 250-300 around 9secs where others are around 15 secs. ( Perfect gearing no Overdrive and the power)

but most vids and compares stops earlier. I for my part was really exited about the highspeed acceleration of the f12 on my test ride hiting shortly the German highways.  Felt stronger than my modded and lighter gt2. Well i signed for

MP4-12C top speed is in 6th gear.

F12 is as you experienced very, very fast car indeed. Congrats on your choice.

RC:

mc3744:

Bottom line. There are quite some great cars out there. It depends what you need, there isn't a best one for everything ... again in my very humble opinion.

True. Porsche lacks a "here I come" model but this never has been their model policy. Also, given the current sociopolitical environment in Germany and other countries, Porsche cannot "afford" to build cars which make a statement. The local media would kill Porsche for that and they know it. Porsche is a typical German company: They are an underdog in the public eye, they serve a limited group of customers but without being too offensive and they offer very good daily drivers. If Porsche would leave this strategy, it could hurt them substantially. I know that especially in the US, many potential customers want something more flashy, something sending a message to the outside world. Porsche just isn't the right company for that and I am quite sure that they leave it to other companies to do the flashy stuff. Looking at their sales figures all over the world, I think they are doing the right thing.

There are only two things I'm not so sure about: The Macan and the prices, especially the prices for the Cayenne, Panamera and even more, the 911. I think that Porsche has gone too far with the prices but maybe there is a strategy behind it if it would allow dealers to provide more rebates to customers. Not sure about it though.

 

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

The Porsche strategy is attractive to many drivers from difficult walks of life who enjoy a car that is fun to drive, powerful. attractive, but not over the top. As you mentioned in your various posts, people get offended by certain cars, and those of us who still have to work for a living do have to keep that in mind.

I plan to buy a ferrari 458 next year, but I'm never going to drive it to work. It will be for holidays, weekend drives and extended weekend trips. I have a Cayman S for a DD, which I plan to keep for a long time as it's a great car to use everyday.

Later today I got my Turbo S back. For all the headaches I've had so far it's truly a beauty!

They say it was a software problem affecting the differential and an update has been released for all the Turbo S.
As of yesterday they also released two new Turbo S that were waiting for the fix.
I have no way of knowing whether it's true or not. But I saw one of the two Turbos now on display at the dealer.

Unfortunately I didn't have time to actually drive the car today (apart from taking it back from the dealer). Not sure when I'll be able to, but I'm hopeful the problem is solved for good.

Porsche Italy sent me a fax apologizing for the "discomfort" I experienced and I've been given as present a 911 Turbo watch. I did appreciate the gesture, while I spent some more 6.5k Euro on winter wheels! ;) I surely hope there won't be any more need for damage control from Porsche! :)

I look forward to my first trip (next week) with my long awaited toy! 

happy end

mc3744:

Later today I got my Turbo S back. For all the headaches I've had so far it's truly a beauty!

They say it was a software problem affecting the differential and an update has been released for all the Turbo S.
As of yesterday they also released two new Turbo S that were waiting for the fix.
I have no way of knowing whether it's true or not. But I saw one of the two Turbos now on display at the dealer.

Unfortunately I didn't have time to actually drive the car today (apart from taking it back from the dealer). Not sure when I'll be able to, but I'm hopeful the problem is solved for good.

Porsche Italy sent me a fax apologizing for the "discomfort" I experienced and I've been given as present a 911 Turbo watch. I did appreciate the gesture, while I spent some more 6.5k Euro on winter wheels! ;) I surely hope there won't be any more need for damage control from Porsche! :)

I look forward to my first trip (next week) with my long awaited toy! 

Glad to hear that your car is back.

I will try to get some info on the software update next week, I promise. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

I like it!!   Great pics!! 

RC:

MKSGR:

Now it appears that even the new turbo S feels more "analog" compared to the latest version of the McLaren. Very interesting video 

Porsche put a lot of development work into the new Turbo and also relied a lot on feedback from customers to improve the car.  It may not be perfect but keep in mind that they will improve the Turbo models further over the next couple of years, so I am pretty confident that they will reach an unprecedented level of perfection with the facelift. 

With 600 hp, a throatier exhaust sound below 3000 rpm and a better start-off from standstill (without launch control), the new Turbo S would be perfect. Absolutely perfect.

it needs to go on a serious diet and shred 150kg

andyFE:

RC:

MKSGR:

Now it appears that even the new turbo S feels more "analog" compared to the latest version of the McLaren. Very interesting video 

Porsche put a lot of development work into the new Turbo and also relied a lot on feedback from customers to improve the car.  It may not be perfect but keep in mind that they will improve the Turbo models further over the next couple of years, so I am pretty confident that they will reach an unprecedented level of perfection with the facelift. 

With 600 hp, a throatier exhaust sound below 3000 rpm and a better start-off from standstill (without launch control), the new Turbo S would be perfect. Absolutely perfect.

it needs to go on a serious diet and shred 150kg

The weight isn't really an issue on this car but of course I would accept a weight reduction of 150kg instead of the 40 hp power bump.  Not sure however how Porsche could achieve such a weight reduction, it is very unlikely. 50kg? Maybe. 150kg? Very unlikely. Maybe with the next generation.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

RC:

andyFE:

RC:

MKSGR:

Now it appears that even the new turbo S feels more "analog" compared to the latest version of the McLaren. Very interesting video 

Porsche put a lot of development work into the new Turbo and also relied a lot on feedback from customers to improve the car.  It may not be perfect but keep in mind that they will improve the Turbo models further over the next couple of years, so I am pretty confident that they will reach an unprecedented level of perfection with the facelift. 

With 600 hp, a throatier exhaust sound below 3000 rpm and a better start-off from standstill (without launch control), the new Turbo S would be perfect. Absolutely perfect.

it needs to go on a serious diet and shred 150kg

The weight isn't really an issue on this car but of course I would accept a weight reduction of 150kg instead of the 40 hp power bump.  Not sure however how Porsche could achieve such a weight reduction, it is very unlikely. 50kg? Maybe. 150kg? Very unlikely. Maybe with the next generation.

 

weight is certainly an issue for every car (or more generally for every propelled object whose trajectory is not a straight line). i agree, shredding 150kg would be desirable but not possible without carbon tub etc, 50kg should be realistic.  as it is now, i would not spec the sunroof, just more weight in the very wrong place. bucket seats help but they contradict the idea of the comfy sport-gt. 

From my email, it kinda reminds me of my CTT headlight recall

Again, what quality control ?

Very small luggage compartment! Where would you put the other headlight 

"Form follows function"

Geez, TTS is hardly on the streets and folks here are nipping away at it.  IMHO, an overreaction to CH article where BTW he concludes TTS is all around better car.

McLaren costs at least 50K US more.  That's a lot of performance Porsche could add if it chose to enter that market niche.  

Wonderbar:

Geez, TTS is hardly on the streets and folks here are nipping away at it.  IMHO, an overreaction to CH article where BTW he concludes TTS is all around better car.

McLaren costs at least 50K US more.  That's a lot of performance Porsche could add if it chose to enter that market niche.  

If they would only do so!

Let me dream:
Fourfold-forty-Turbo-special-edition, 40-years-of-Porsche-Turbo with 40 kg less weight and 40 hp more power, for 40K more money, all limited to something like 911 models.

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

in my country MC12 cost 65% more than TTS 

TTS price is 53k   KD 

MC12 80K  or  100K  KD for spider   

thats in Kuwaiti Dinar   1$= 0.283 KD 

do the math 

BiTurbo:

From my email, it kinda reminds me of my CTT headlight recall

Again, what quality control ?

what happened?

why did you take the headlight out?

RC:

Indeed. Furthermore, Porsche gave the new 991 Turbo S full boost pressure at speeds over 250 kph (I get 1.2 bar like forever...Overboost doesn't shut off after 20 seconds, which is weird but I guess I shouldn't complaint ) and this up to top speed. On the 997 Turbo S, boost pressure is adjusted to lower ranges in the speed range above 250 kph. I suspect that Porsche made the engine and turbo chargers more durable at higher speeds, the additional cooling capabilities certainly play a role here. 

Regarding the McLaren, I think that in the upper speed range between 240 and 310 kph, the McLaren will not be able to outrun the 991 Turbo S. You can actually see in the video pretty clearly what is happening. Which is surprising but maybe be, like discussed before, related to drag/downforce and boost pressure. I wonder what would happen if Porsche would allow the 991 Turbo S to run on 1.2 bar boost pressure all the time, incl. the speed range below 250 kph. I actually wonder why the don't...  Usually, the boost pressure below 250 kph is adjusted to 0.9 to 1.1 bar, you rarely see 1.2 bar.

Then, let's talk prices: When I compared the MP4-12C to the Turbo S a while ago during a meeting with Porsche officials, I got a somehow outraged response from one of them: "The McLaren is much more expensive...". True, last time I checked, my local McLaren dealer asked 270k EUR for a car I would like. However: Lease offers are quite good right now, the rebate is also higher than the one I got from my Porsche dealer (OK, I wanted the first one, so I didn't expect 11 or 12 points ) but in the end, the daily driver capabilities and the public perception of the McLaren make it a no-go for me in Bavaria.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

If you get overboost  (1.2 bar) over 250 kph, then Porsche's power figures are significantly "lower" than reality - closer to "your" desired 600hp. This feature used to drive me CRAZY with my 997tt. Didn't always get over boost and when I did, it was for VERY short bursts. Think about it, if it is active between 2,000-5,000rpm, the benefit would be minimal. Glad Porsche are improving this but it sounds like below 250kph it works like before - not terribly useful for non Autobahn users.

Porsche's 911's have always had done well from 250kph+ due to their lower drag figures but doesn't the MACCA have a higher top speed? Again, only useful for you lucky few who use the Autobahn.

Too bad Chris didn't do any 100-250kph roll-ons and he didn't time them around the track. 

Cheers

Friend of mine is professional auto reporter so take a few minutes to read his impressions 

http://www.worldrallyblog.com/2013/11/30/thoughts/re-living-spirit-group-b/

sfo:

BiTurbo:

From my email, it kinda reminds me of my CTT headlight recall

Again, what quality control ?

 

what happened?

why did you take the headlight out?

 

Not my car, customer takes delivery of his car slams on the brakes and headlight plops out

BiTurbo:

sfo:

BiTurbo:

From my email, it kinda reminds me of my CTT headlight recall

Again, what quality control ?

 

what happened?

why did you take the headlight out?

 

Not my car, customer takes delivery of his car slams on the brakes and headlight plops out

Testament to the braking performance, isn't it?

For people that are interested in the Metallic white color from the showcar at the Frankfurt Motorshow... Please sit down and read on:

Got an email from the Exclusive department last week (finally!). The paint costs (in Germany) EUR 7000 excl. taxes!!! 

Together with the prices for the interior, this would make the car way too expensive, so no TTS for me anymore.  I had alraedy decided not to use the car as a daily driver. All together the pricetag would be over CHF 310k ($ 335k or € 250k)  after discounts and that 's too much for a weekend car/Non-DD, at least for me it is...

i could get a fully optioned Audi RS5 cab and a fully optioned Cayman S for that money....for example.

--

Suzy

 

SuzyF:

For people that are interested in the Metallic white color from the showcar at the Frankfurt Motorshow... Please sit down and read on:

Got an email from the Exclusive department last week (finally!). The paint costs (in Germany) EUR 7000 excl. taxes!!! 

Together with the prices for the interior, this would make the car way too expensive, so no TTS for me anymore.  I had alraedy decided not to use the car as a daily driver. All together the pricetag would be over CHF 310k ($ 335k or € 250k)  after discounts and that 's too much for a weekend car/Non-DD, at least for me it is...

i could get a fully optioned Audi RS5 cab and a fully optioned Cayman S for that money....for example.

--

Suzy

 

Really? You decide "against" getting a 250k EUR car based on the 7k or so price tag for the paint? 

Suzy, I kind of have the feeling that you don't really know what you want. Since you already have a Boxster S, I would get a 991 GT3 as a weekend fun car if the 991 Turbo S is too much money. Of course you could also opt for a different color on the 991 Turbo S. 

Good luck. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

cumbe:

Friend of mine is professional auto reporter so take a few minutes to read his impressions 

http://www.worldrallyblog.com/2013/11/30/thoughts/re-living-spirit-group-b/

I agree with him. I just wonder how he achieved under 10 liters / 100 km (fuel consumption) but it is possible (according to stories I heard from others ). Great daily driver for summers and winters, I was in Austria yesterday and enjoyed every little bit of the car.

3400 km and 100% trouble free so far, knock on wood. 

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

RC:

SuzyF:

For people that are interested in the Metallic white color from the showcar at the Frankfurt Motorshow... Please sit down and read on:

Got an email from the Exclusive department last week (finally!). The paint costs (in Germany) EUR 7000 excl. taxes!!! 

Together with the prices for the interior, this would make the car way too expensive, so no TTS for me anymore.  I had alraedy decided not to use the car as a daily driver. All together the pricetag would be over CHF 310k ($ 335k or € 250k)  after discounts and that 's too much for a weekend car/Non-DD, at least for me it is...

i could get a fully optioned Audi RS5 cab and a fully optioned Cayman S for that money....for example.

--

Suzy

 

Really? You decide "against" getting a 250k EUR car based on the 7k or so price tag for the paint? 

Suzy, I kind of have the feeling that you don't really know what you want. Since you already have a Boxster S, I would get a 991 GT3 as a weekend fun car if the 991 Turbo S is too much money. Of course you could also opt for a different color on the 991 Turbo S. 

Good luck. 

Problem is that if I had decided to use the car as my DD, I would have definitely gone for the TTS. It's the ultimate DD. But 250k euro for a weekend car, just for me alone. I don't know.... That's a lot of money for a car that's been used that much. The problems for me are probably similar to the ones you often mention and why you don't use your TTS on a daily base. That's why I decided to get a "normal" business car and use that also as my daily driver (just like I do now). It's better for my company and in the end is that the most important thing.

When we were in the U.S., we rented a 991 C2 cab for a week and we really enjoyed that car, but as strange as it may sound, it also made me appreciate my Boxster S more. I really think the Boxster is the better car in terms of having fun on twisty roads and just enjoy a nice drive. The 991 is more mature and in an S-version (or Turbo) much faster, but speed isn't what makes you smile...

As a DD the 991 is far ahead of the 981, but as a weekend/fun car.... I think I prefer the 981. I don't want a GT3. If it looked like a normal 911, I would definitely want one, but it looks way too flashy for my taste. I don't like big wings on cars. The TTS is just within my limits, a GT3 is way beyond my limits....

So it's either going for a C4S or being less selfish and trade the Boxster for an RS5 cab (which is my and my GF's all time favourite convertible) and get a fully optioned 981 (this time with PDK). i've owned a S5 cabriolet before we moved to Switzerland and I still miss that car often. I like the fact that you can fit 4 people, which I miss in a Boxster or even a 911 cab.  The RS5 also has that magnificent NA V8 which is a big part of the fun in that car... And when driving relaxed, the car is just a nice boulevard cruiser... It's a car, my GF can easily drive without being intimidated.

It's just not a sportscar, so that's why I want a 981 next to it. (Preferably maybe a 991C4S :), but I have to set a limit somewhere). I'll see....  First I need a new business car. That's most important at the moment. I had my mind set on the Macan, but that underwhelmed me a bit, so looking for something else now. 

Suzy

 

Call me silly, but white color would be my last choice for DD, and even more importantly "special" color would be out of every question. First, I dont want to spend every day in washing service, and second I dont want to pay silly amounts of $$$ for paint repair (you are expecting chips on DD). And yes, I hate clear-bras 

For weekend toy, I would pick 991 Turbo in yellow with bucket seats, and later I would pick some tuning packages from RUF or 9ff. For DD, I would pick 991 Turbo S in Christian`s color (hides dust perfectly) & a bunch of luxury add-ons to make it very comfortable 

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