Crown

mc3744:

Well, while I obviously believe that the social impact of the kind of cars we drive is a very relevant topic when talking sport cars, I also understand and agree that it's not the most interesting one 

 

To get back to the "cars". My beleaguered brand new Turbo S has now been sitting at the dealer for almost two weeks!! 

Since yesterday (10 days from the first alert) a technician from Italian Porsche HQ has been working on it.

So far they have decided that it's either the transmission or the differential. But they are so far from understanding exactly what, that - yesterday - they weren't even sure yet whether it is a software or a hardware problem!! As usual I'm waiting for updates.

 

I'm ending up with a delayed car, on which I had to give up on some options to get it sooner (which I didn't!) and I now cannot even drive it!! 

 

I have to say that, as much as I like the car(s) (both the Cayenne and the 911) it's extremely unlikely that my next purchase will be with Porsche again. The service experience as been as bad as it gets.

 

If I had to choose again today I'd probably go with Range Rover/Q7 and Lambo/Ferrari. I'm so pissed at Porsche!!

I'm so sorry to hear that. Have you contacted the email address I posted? It may take some time though.
I actually think that your dealer is the problem here, he moves too slow. He should have contacted Porsche Germany from day one of the problem since the car is pretty new and it is very unlikely that Porsche Italy has a solution at hand. I know that this is the way it works (Porsche dealer to Porsche Italy and then Porsche Italy to Porsche Germany) but they cannot keep a 991 Turbo S customer without a car for two weeks and nothing happens, this is ridiculous. I would go nuclear if this would happen to me.

Software problem? I have the same car as you and already 2800 km, no issues at all. I rather suspect a hardware issue but of course I don't have the details.

I wish you the best of luck but you should increase the pressure on your dealer.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

sulaiman:

mc3744 

i feel sorry for u man :( 

isnt time to get the lawyer  thing ?? 

Thanks :)

I'm waiting till the end of the day to see if they actually have a fix and then I'll start looking into legal actions.

The thing is that this is supposed to be the fun part of life and I'm waiting as much as I can in the hope that I don't have to turn it into work. I know how to do it, but the idea was to enjoy.

Tomorrow I'll start looking into the contract and share it with my lawyers, I'm pretty sure Porsche has a pretty ironclad -not client friendly agreement.

mc3744:

RC I just sent an email describing the situation to the address you provided me. Thanks.

 

In any case, tomorrow I'll forget about the car and the issue and I'll hand everything over to my lawyers.

We'll see what they can do. Maybe Porsche will eventually "force my hand" and my wife will have to accept a Ferrari or a Lambo 

They may have done me a favor  

You should have done this when I posted the email address. They usually need some time to process everything.

Involving lawyers is never good, I would wait for the involvement of Porsche Germany to get things right. In the end, your dealer is the one who needs to take the fall (he is your direct contact) but I think that your dealer hasn't really shown the best possible service. Two weeks wait time without any real explanation is lame.

Which brings me back to my dealer: Since I got my Cayenne GTS, I have an issue with my PCM system. It doesn't work with a Vodafone Nano card (built-in phone), I have to use the BT connection to use the phone function, which also means that I cannot use the internal antenna of the Cayenne, providing better coverage. Very weird situation. My dealer already exchanged the phone unit of the PCM but nothing had changed. Porsche kind of "forbid" further steps because they cost money and they don't seem to be aware of this issue. We tried two other Nano SIM cards from dealership employees and none of them worked. We tried other SIM cards and they work. One year has passed and I still have no fix for this problem. I could easily address this problem with Porsche on a different level but I don't care anymore (I got used to using my phone via BT) and it would put my dealer under pressure and I really don't want that because I usually keep the pressure for really important stuff. Still: I should not be that friendly and should pursue my right of having a PCM phone functioning properly.

Next time at the dealer, I think I'm actually going to remind them again of the issue. As a customer, it feels like poor service if I have almost always to take the initiative to get things fixed. I feel for you. Good luck!

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

BTW, Cayenne PCM phone-same problem my good friend has. Fact is the it is Porsche's problem, not dealers since Porsche poorly designed PCM phone. It was not designed with iPhone nano sim card in mind...

Take it to Stuttgart Porscheplatz and.....

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@mc3744 Change the dealer, not manufacturer choice 

My new blog with automotive & motorcycle renders: tessoart.blogspot.com

Milanno:

@mc3744 Change the dealer, not manufacturer choice 

Agree 100%.

I would ask Porsche Italy to have a replacement car organized from Porsche where-ever they get it from (presscar?) until they fixed yours  - or give me back the money. How can u be one of the first customers and not drive that car ? very upsetting !

mc3744:

Yesterday afternoon they called me and told me that they recalibrated the software and now the car is fine and that they are waiting for Porsche Germany to authorize them to release the car.

I have a strong feeling that they didn't really understand what's the issue. And managed to "fix it" playing with the software. My guess is that I'll be back with the same problem in a week or a month or .... I really hope I'm just being a pessimist.

 

Btw, my dealer is not a third party. It is actually a direct subsidiary of Porsche (Porsche Hause Srl). The service I'm getting is Porsche's service not a dealer's service.

Porsche Haus Srl is owned by Porsche Italy. 

Have you talked to the manager? This would be the first step.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

I say, keep your head up as long as your car is under warranty. While my poor car ended up going back to the service center because of rear view mirror fell off (1st case!!!) all by itself  / dangling and the whole windshield has to be replaced   car is almost 6 years old.

Porsche quality ? I'm really not sure but I just keep on taking her back to get every damn thing fixed, including a recall on Turbo/GT2 exhaust outlet tube temp sensor or something similar to that "WD04"

Probably a repost..

Press Release 18/11/2013

Representative survey commissioned by Porsche Consulting Consumers want better service from German retailers Stuttgart. Most customers at retail shops in Germany want better sales advice as well as salespeople who offer assistance without being asked and are able to answer questions. This is the result of a recent representative survey commissioned by Porsche Consulting GmbH headquartered in Bietigheim-Bissingen and carried out by the Forsa market research institute. A total of 59 percent of customers 18 years of age and older are critical of the quality of advice they receive from sales personnel: approximately one third (32%) feel that sales advice is only sometimes good and 27 percent report that they “rarely if ever” receive adequate advice. Nearly half of customers surveyed note a lack of competent personnel who are able to answer questions about individual products. Four of ten customers desire greater support in searching for specific items, in procuring items not currently in stock, and in comparing alternatives. The survey revealed insufficient availability of personnel to be a major source of unsatisfactory sales advice. Four of ten customers expect to have to go looking for sales personnel first – or at least to have to wait before being able to talk with them. This situation has consequences for the retail sector: 81 percent of respondents have changed plans to purchase something in the past when sales advice has not met their expectations. Women tend to draw back from planned purchases more so than men, according to the survey, as do middle-aged and older customers compared to younger ones under the age of 30 who are more prepared to compromise. Retailers face a high risk of losing unsatisfied customers for good. Many customers who do not go through with a planned purchase because they feel inadequately advised tend to boycott the shop in general. According to the survey, two of three customers (66%) permanently avoid shops at which sales advice did not meet their expectations. Market researchers from Forsa arrived at the following conclusion: “Improving the quality of sales advice in the retail sector would appear to be urgently necessary.”  To enable sales personnel to spend more time with customers, Porsche Consulting’s specialists in this sector advise retailers in particular to make all their processes more efficient and integral. Sales activities need to be distinct from what might be termed support activities – such as stocking shelves. In addition, the logistics at branch locations could be organized considerably more effectively if incoming goods processes were streamlined. Ready-made deliveries – prepared for direct placement in the sales area – could reduce the time and effort spent on unpacking and restocking. Another equally important area consists of precise personnel planning with clearly defined responsibilities, ongoing employee training, and clear rules about personnel presence in sales areas. Eberhard Weiblen, Chairman of the Executive Board of Porsche Consulting GmbH, is convinced that “perfect processes can enable retailers to score points with their customers as well as their employees. When employees engage in the activities for which they were trained and hired, both their satisfaction and that of the customers goes up.” As he adds, “If their processes were consistently oriented to the needs of consumers, German retailers could derive 20 percent more time for their customers – without having to add additional personnel.”

RC:

Porsche Haus Srl is owned by Porsche Italy. 

Have you talked to the manager? This would be the first step.

Yes, it is, and Porsche Italy is owned by Porsche Germany (as far as I know). Hence my point that I'm not dealing with a reseller of Porsche, but with Porsche directly.

I talked with the dealer's manager and with their maintenance head. They are vey nice, but very helpful.

Anyway tomorrow I'm getting the car back and they should explain the situation. I'll let you know.

Wonderbar:

Probably a repost..

 

Press Release 18/11/2013

Representative survey commissioned by Porsche Consulting Consumers want better service from German retailers Eberhard Weiblen, Chairman of the Executive Board of Porsche Consulting GmbH, is convinced that “perfect processes can enable retailers to score points with their customers as well as their employees. When employees engage in the activities for which they were trained and hired, both their satisfaction and that of the customers goes up.” As he adds, “If their processes were consistently oriented to the needs of consumers, German retailers could derive 20 percent more time for their customers – without having to add additional personnel.”

 

BjoernB:

I would ask Porsche Italy to have a replacement car organized from Porsche where-ever they get it from (presscar?) until they fixed yours  - or give me back the money. How can u be one of the first customers and not drive that car ? very upsetting !

I did, and I got a 4S five day later.

I completely agree :))

If it makes you feel better, I had my Ferrari 599 one month in the shop for a gearbox problem ( had to go to five different dealerships in a 400km range before someone even admitted the issue) and had a Fiat 500 Abarth as a substitute car in that period. A 4S seems rather nice by comparison.

In any case no manufacturer is perfect. You can have problems with any car and the grass is not always greener on the other side.

Buona fortuna!

FlatSix911:

If it makes you feel better, I had my Ferrari 599 one month in the shop for a gearbox problem ( had to go to five different dealerships in a 400km range before someone even admitted the issue) and had a Fiat 500 Abarth as a substitute car in that period. A 4S seems rather nice by comparison.

In any case no manufacturer is perfect. You can have problems with any car and the grass is not always greener on the other side.

Buona fortuna!

It doesn't ;) Only makes me feel even more worried ;))

But you make a good point of course :)

Grazie :)

Again a great video from Chris harris. And Again the TTS is left for dead over 100mph just like the F12. Bring on the GT2!

2013 BMW 750 xDrive MSport & 2012 x5 - TurboS Cab on Order Mar14. Range Rover V8 on order June14

I must agree with RC. Turbo S with this price should be nearly 600hp to keep up with up-coming competition.

My new blog with automotive & motorcycle renders: tessoart.blogspot.com

EnglishManInNY:

Again a great video from Chris harris. And Again the TTS is left for dead over 100mph just like the F12. Bring on the GT2!

What is most important is (i) that the delta in acceleration is rather small (ii) after the mid-speed pull both cars seem to be equally quick (the 991 seems to close the distance a bit even). Somehow, the McLaren is not as quick at very high speeds. Interesting.

MKSGR:

 

What is most important is (i) that the delta in acceleration is rather small (ii) after the mid-speed pull both cars seem to be equally quick (the 991 seems to close the distance a bit even). Somehow, the McLaren is not as quick at very high speeds. Interesting.

Here is what is happening in that acceleration test at Bruntingthorpe.

0-200kph

The Porsche uses its fantastic grip combined with launch,traction and PDK systems to negate the 200kg weight disadvantage and use its massive torque curve to match the Macca up to 200kph.

200 to 250kph

The 80hp advantage of the Macca (which is right in the maximum power zone now with full traction) shows through here and the extra 200kg of the TTS holds it back further.

250kph +

The Macca was measured by Sport Auto CdA 0.79 which is a VERY high drag, more than a Carrera GT, I have driven Carrera GT down this runway and it feels like someone put the brakes on over 250kph (it too managed only 196mph)

The Turbo S is typically Porsche low drag CdA ~0.63 and this is why it holds its position and even claws some ground  back over 250. where its higher weight is quite unimportant.

3.9  GT2 2011 make over

Another great video form CH, he´s the best. The Mclaren doesn´t seduce me but for this kind of money the 991TT wouldn´t be my choice either, bring on the Cabrera 

J.Seven

For me, the added usability and all-weather capabilities of the 991TTS put it head and shoulders above its competition in terms of appeal.

Moreover, the fact that some competitors might be marginally faster at some speed ranges is immaterial to me. Put a Turbo on a tight, wet and not perfectly surfaced road and none of these cars will know which way the Turbo went.

FlatSix911:

For me, the added usability and all-weather capabilities of the 991TTS put it head and shoulders above its competition in terms of appeal.

Moreover, the fact that some competitors might be marginally faster at some speed ranges is immaterial to me. Put a Turbo on a tight, wet and not perfectly surfaced road and none of these cars will know which way the Turbo went.

 

Indeed. Furthermore, Porsche gave the new 991 Turbo S full boost pressure at speeds over 250 kph (I get 1.2 bar like forever...Overboost doesn't shut off after 20 seconds, which is weird but I guess I shouldn't complaint ) and this up to top speed. On the 997 Turbo S, boost pressure is adjusted to lower ranges in the speed range above 250 kph. I suspect that Porsche made the engine and turbo chargers more durable at higher speeds, the additional cooling capabilities certainly play a role here. Also, the 991 Turbo S has a huge advantage with the active aerodynamics. With Sport mode, the spoiler/wing are not fully "up", creating less downforce, thus making the car faster at higher speeds. With more downforce, the car is usually slower in the upper speed range and this is a disadvantage some competitors have to carry.

This is why I do not understand those owners who drive with Sport Plus mode on the Autobahn, it doesn't make any sense and only results in more downforce, thus making them slower in the upper speed range. Yes, the 991 Turbo S looks cool with the rear wing and front lip fully deployed but otherwise, there is a huge disadvantage. Sport Plus mode is great for the track and country roads and speeds below 200 kph or so but not for the Autobahn. Keep that in mind.

Regarding the McLaren, I think that in the upper speed range between 240 and 310 kph, the McLaren will not be able to outrun the 991 Turbo S. You can actually see in the video pretty clearly what is happening. Which is surprising but maybe be, like discussed before, related to drag/downforce and boost pressure. I wonder what would happen if Porsche would allow the 991 Turbo S to run on 1.2 bar boost pressure all the time, incl. the speed range below 250 kph. I actually wonder why the don't...  Usually, the boost pressure below 250 kph is adjusted to 0.9 to 1.1 bar, you rarely see 1.2 bar.

Then, let's talk prices: When I compared the MP4-12C to the Turbo S a while ago during a meeting with Porsche officials, I got a somehow outraged response from one of them: "The McLaren is much more expensive...". True, last time I checked, my local McLaren dealer asked 270k EUR for a car I would like. However: Lease offers are quite good right now, the rebate is also higher than the one I got from my Porsche dealer (OK, I wanted the first one, so I didn't expect 11 or 12 points ) but in the end, the daily driver capabilities and the public perception of the McLaren make it a no-go for me in Bavaria.

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

RC:

This is why I do not understand those owners who drive with Sport Plus mode on the Autobahn, it doesn't make any sense and only results in more downforce, thus making them slower in the upper speed range. Yes, the 991 Turbo S looks cool with the rear wing and front lip fully deployed but otherwise, there is a huge disadvantage. Sport Plus mode is great for the track and country roads and speeds below 200 kph or so but not for the Autobahn. Keep that in mind.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

Good to know. But what about the extra power boost with Sport Plus engaged?
Is the extra aerodynamic drag not worth the extra power?

TB993tt:

 

The Macca was measured by Sport Auto CdA 0.79 which is a VERY high drag, more than a Carrera GT, I have driven Carrera GT down this runway and it feels like someone put the brakes on over 250kph (it too managed only 196mph)

The Turbo S is typically Porsche low drag CdA ~0.63 and this is why it holds its position and even claws some ground  back over 250. where its higher weight is quite unimportant.

 

Interesting analysis