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Re: BMW 2 Series
Interesting to compare the dimensions of this model to the E30 3 series. The new 2 series is longer by 107mm, taller by 38mm, wider by 129mm, front track wider by 114mm, rear track wider by 141mm, and the wheelbase longer by 120mm. So in spite of claiming the 2 series is a new model it is effectively an original sized 3 series that has still grown yet offers less practical cabin space. Audi have pulled the same stunt with the A3 saloon which is very close in size to the original A4 saloon.
Rear seat space despite being wider will actually be less due to the inward slope of the side glass and the sharply dropping rear roofline which now begins ahead of where the rear seat passengers heads will be. If you sit in an E30 3 series it feels compact but quite roomy thanks to the glass to body ratio giving an almost panoramic view compared to modern cars.
Oct 27, 2013 11:49:06 AM
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rulesdontapply
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Re: BMW 2 Series
Conny997:
2er looks nice but way to small in the overall size. I guess the rear space is just usable as baggage store.
My brother actually owns a 2012 135i and I've sat in the backseat comfortably for short rides a few times. For reference, I'm 178 cm [5'10"].
rulesdontapply
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Oct 27, 2013 11:59:57 AM
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Oct 27, 2013 12:54:35 PM
- Conny997
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Re: BMW 2 Series
rulesdontapply:
Conny997:
2er looks nice but way to small in the overall size. I guess the rear space is just usable as baggage store.
My brother actually owns a 2012 135i and I've sat in the backseat comfortably for short rides a few times. For reference, I'm 178 cm [5'10"].
rulesdontapply
The coupe??
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Kind regards, Conny
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Re: BMW 2 Series
ISUK:
Interesting to compare the dimensions of this model to the E30 3 series. The new 2 series is longer by 107mm, taller by 38mm, wider by 129mm, front track wider by 114mm, rear track wider by 141mm, and the wheelbase longer by 120mm. So in spite of claiming the 2 series is a new model it is effectively an original sized 3 series that has still grown yet offers less practical cabin space. Audi have pulled the same stunt with the A3 saloon which is very close in size to the original A4 saloon.
Rear seat space despite being wider will actually be less due to the inward slope of the side glass and the sharply dropping rear roofline which now begins ahead of where the rear seat passengers heads will be. If you sit in an E30 3 series it feels compact but quite roomy thanks to the glass to body ratio giving an almost panoramic view compared to modern cars.
Nice post. I have been wondering about this. Nowadays a 5 series must have the size of a 1990 7 Series and so on. Cars have been growing in size but designers were smart to make it look smaller and more compact. New Clio must be bigger than a 2000 Megane.
J.Seven
Re: BMW 2 Series
J.Seven:
Nice post. I have been wondering about this. Nowadays a 5 series must have the size of a 1990 7 Series and so on. Cars have been growing in size but designers were smart to make it look smaller and more compact. New Clio must be bigger than a 2000 Megane.
J.Seven
The current F10 5 series is actually taller, wider and just 213mm shorter than the 1990 7 series. Cars are just becoming ridiculously oversized, a point you certainly realise when you get into an older car and realise how much more nimble they are due to much narrower width,length etc and how much better their all round visibility is. This is something car makers really need to look at in their quest to reduce weight. No doubt it is down to Euro NCAP side impact tests which have made cars much safer but someone needs to make a breakthrough in terms of engineering good side impact protection into a car with a narrower footprint IMHO.
Re: BMW 2 Series
The average person has grown 3-5 cm in height since the 70s, everywhere in the world. And analogously in volume if not disproportionately more due to the growing appetite for and availability of food.
Add safety legislation requirements, need for equipment, more radiators etc. and you can see why cars have grown.
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"Form follows function"
Re: BMW 2 Series
Reginos,
Look again at the interior height stats on these cars. They new variants are not adding anything extra in terms of usable interior space. In a lot of cases they are actually offering less space as can be seen by the rear seat legroom in the new 2 series versus the E30.
I just read a review of the new Hyundai i10 in Autocar and it has gone from being the narrowest city car in it's class in it's previous generation form to being the widest in it's new version. The outgoing car was designed in South Korea I believe whilst the new one was designed in Germany. If they carry on at this rate we'll have cars the same with as heavy trucks in another two decades 
Designers appear to have forgotten that parking spaces and garages have not grown in size to accomodate these larger cars and are now looking at cars that can self park to stop car park incidents. Can you imagine the fiasco ahead at busy shopping centre car parks as everyone dismounts from their cars then stands there holding a button to let the car drive off and self park. There will be gridlock in car parks as cars try to follow their owners commands but are blocked by other cars trying to do the same. A lot of people are going to end up standing in a queue at the front doors all getting sore thumbs holding down their remote parking buttons for a long time 
It is simply the daftest idea I think designers have come up with yet and given little thought of how it will practically work in the real world. A lot of people who hate cars will simply not act rationally with self parking.
Re: BMW 2 Series
I like the new 2 series very much but I'm afraid the interior will feel a little cheap like 1 series. I'm thinking of getting 4 series for my daily drive. With a bigger interior and longer doors, the interior of the 4 series feel much better.
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ONUR 
THE BEST CAR EVER
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Re: BMW 2 Series
ISUK:
Reginos,
Look again at the interior height stats on these cars. They new variants are not adding anything extra in terms of usable interior space. In a lot of cases they are actually offering less space as can be seen by the rear seat legroom in the new 2 series versus the E30.
I just read a review of the new Hyundai i10 in Autocar and it has gone from being the narrowest city car in it's class in it's previous generation form to being the widest in it's new version. The outgoing car was designed in South Korea I believe whilst the new one was designed in Germany. If they carry on at this rate we'll have cars the same with as heavy trucks in another two decades
If cars auto-park, there will be probably less confusion and less time waste compared to the abilities of the majority of humans.
OTOH I predict that many will not be able to handle the remote controls correctly 
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"Form follows function"
Oct 28, 2013 1:38:37 PM
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rulesdontapply
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Re: BMW 2 Series
sfo:
BMW interiors have really taken a nose dive in quality.
The plastic on the dash, on the door sill trims and generally is no better than Ford, and miles away from Audi. This applies to 1, 3 and 4 series. Nasty.
Not to mention the plastic center on their steering wheels. What's the point of that when you've got a full leather interior [for a change] in a 6 or 7 Series but still get that textured plastic on your steering wheel?
I'm also extremely unimpressed by their designs; the 2 and 4 Series and the best looking BMWs to come out of Munich in a while but even then they're much too subtle to be considered all-new. They look like facelifts of their replacements and even then - yet people mock Porsche for being lazy. Looking at the new X5 [which is a dog of a truck from a design perspective], for instance, the interior gets a floating screen but the rest looks the same, inside and out. Judging from recent spy shots, the forthcoming X6 looks like a current-gen with nothing more than updated lights and bumpers.
Very disappointed with BMW. Seems they're keeping all their innovation for the i division.
rulesdontapply
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Oct 28, 2013 2:05:47 PM
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sfo
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Re: BMW 2 Series
I agree, BMW interiors are very derivative across their entire range, and do not feel or look special.
BMW exterior design is lazy, as you say, and worse, it looks less and less cohesive as time passes.
4 series is OK but I find the front too contrived and too squashed .. interior is plain dull and unexciting, not much better than a Hyundai.
2 series I like because it has a simple (comparatively speaking) front, and has personality and character distinct from the rest of the dull BMW range.
Re: BMW 2 Series
I think that the 2 series might be ok for people who have to have a small BMW with sports coupe styling.
For the rest of us it is a non event.
From the current BMW line up the only one that I could visually tolerate is the 6 GranCoupe with the M design look.
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"Form follows function"
Re: BMW 2 Series
As much as I like a BMW inline-6, I think they should make an M2 with a turbo 4 cyl with close to 400hp and less weight for better handling (like the original E30 M3 had fewer cylinders than the 325i of the same year). Currently, there are already an M235i and M4 with turbo inline-6's. They can't use the M4 engine without stealing sales of the more expensive model (unless they reduce boost)..
Interesting marketing problem...
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73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550
Re: BMW 2 Series
sfo:
BMW interiors have really taken a nose dive in quality.
The plastic on the dash, on the door sill trims and generally is no better than Ford, and miles away from Audi. This applies to 1, 3 and 4 series. Nasty.
+1 I agree. My Mother's new A3 Sportback has much better interior material than BMW 1-3-4, Mercedes A-B-CLA etc.
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ONUR
THE BEST CAR EVER
11 E92 M3 CP - 09 Audi TTS Coupe - 07 997 Carrera S - 05 M3 Coupe - 03 M3 Coupe - 96 M3 Coupe EVO (PASS TIME HISTORY)
Re: BMW 2 Series
sfo:
I agree, BMW interiors are very derivative across their entire range, and do not feel or look special.
BMW exterior design is lazy, as you say, and worse, it looks less and less cohesive as time passes.
4 series is OK but I find the front too contrived and too squashed .. interior is plain dull and unexciting, not much better than a Hyundai.
2 series I like because it has a simple (comparatively speaking) front, and has personality and character distinct from the rest of the dull BMW range.
This one is nice, even better with the OEM M steering wheel. No need for shift lights on the steering wheel.
OEM trims are so cheap that this alcantara trims improve the material quality.
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ONUR
THE BEST CAR EVER
11 E92 M3 CP - 09 Audi TTS Coupe - 07 997 Carrera S - 05 M3 Coupe - 03 M3 Coupe - 96 M3 Coupe EVO (PASS TIME HISTORY)
Re: BMW 2 Series
We thought seriously of getting an 135i for SWMBO, and test drove one the other week. She found it one of the most uncomfortable cars she's driven due to the badly offset accelerator pedal - she has short legs and hip problems and has to have the driver's seat right forward which made the offset so bad for her. A real shame as she used to have a '99 BMW 328i Touring (pre hip issues) which she really loved. Back to the drawing board.... next try an Audi S3 sportback.
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Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Skoda Octavia Mk.3 daily drive
Re: BMW 2 Series
sfo:
dreamcar:
next try an Audi S3 sportback.
Golf GTi or GTD?
Ok, but not particularly struck on the Golf somehow - and would be petrol so no "D". Amazed how quick the S3 is, coming back from my mother in laws yesterday had a bit of session with one on the A27 dual carriageway in our 997 - and it was not pulling away from the S3 until approaching well into illegal limits... 
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Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Skoda Octavia Mk.3 daily drive
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