Crown

i for me overtake on the right. Its the best way and imho nearly without risk. You dont need to press the horn or do something else stupid (e.g. driving at very low distance to the car in front). Most of the cars go on the right lane when i arrive fast, but when you see a driver who wont change lanes, he wont change for many miles. So initial im not to aggressive when im arriving, but when i see he wont change (speaking of lower speeds 120-130kmh) a short blip on the throttle to overtake the car on the right and im away. Most of the drivers realize it and go then on the right lane ;). Never met one who got angry about this. Its better then driving at low distances too aggressive.

i guess u had a chance and missed it ....  over take him  and  then u can try how good this Yellow PCCB  and then WOT again   LOOL Just kidddddeen 

For some reason I never get a comparison between these two cars. Is there anyone who would cross-shop these two??

i wouldn't... That's for sure! The only car that  i can imagine myself cross-shopping with the 911 Turbo S is an Audi R8 V10+

--

Suzy

 

Same war. same sensationalistic and irrelevant journalism...

RC:

993Targa:

Sorry I didn't notice that "the 135i drove as fast as possible", so I guess around 250km/h. Ofcourse I wouldn't overtake on the right with such speeds. But I've admit that if somebody is blocking me with 120-130 km/h, to teach me a lesson, I could be tempted to overtake on the right. Not saying that I ever did this

That particular 135i really drove me nuts because he was driving as fast as possible, so he didn't want to "teach" or block me but he didn't move to the right, so I can pass him. This means that the driver either didn't pay attention of what is going on behind him or he just thought there is nothing faster around.  I fell back half a km a couple of times and then fully accelerated to get closer fast (so he would get an idea of my acceleration, usually people "get" the hint) but no way, he was driving on the left. For 20 km. It drove me nuts.

I apologize to folks from former East Germany but after reunification everything in Germany got worse,IMO.

I've driven 1000's of miles in both W.Germany and DDR in late 70's and 80's so I have a good perspective.

W.German drivers were courteous,fast,skilled,never blocked the left lane,when passing they kept their left blinker on,were aware of traffic behind and always made way for faster cars.Road stops had clean toilets and shops,no graffitti anywhere.

DDR was infamous for the left lane hogs in their Trabis and Wartburgs,pollutting the air and never pulling to the right for anyone except Polizei.

I won't even mention the state of autobahns that last time saw maintenance crew under Hitler.

I guess it is like water in 2 vessels with uneven levels,when connected they even up,one goes down,the other up.

Still,you people complain at driving skills (or lack of them) in Europe,trust me ,it's not even close to US,home of the worst drivers in the so called civilized World.

At least we are allowed to pass these hogs on the right..... 

Thanks for posting - interesting read!

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

SuzyF:

For some reason I never get a comparison between these two cars. Is there anyone who would cross-shop these two??

 

Very different in some ways, but also very similar (uber performance on road or track in any weather (with correct tires), AWD, 2+2 seating, Dual Clutch, heavily computerized, etc.).

--

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

Grant:

SuzyF:

For some reason I never get a comparison between these two cars. Is there anyone who would cross-shop these two??

 

Very different in some ways, but also very similar (uber performance on road or track in any weather (with correct tires), AWD, 2+2 seating, Dual Clutch, heavily computerized, etc.).

--

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

I reckon still a high percentage of Porsches are bought by petrolheads, proper car guys (unlike Ferraris, Lambos and other more posey/delicate/expensive marques) who will also try the GTR at some point since it is similar (to the Porsche turbo) in many ways, certainly a valid comparison IMO. Personally I hated the GTR gearbox (just as I don't like PDK) and found the suspension just too harsh as it attempted (and succeeded) to control 1800kg and my daily driver is a Bilsteined solid jointed 997GT2 !

3.9  GT2 2011 make over

Anyone seen the 991tt or 991tts with the 20" Classic wheel on it?  Photo perhaps..?  Is it somewhat heavier then the standard tts wheel - concerned a little with unsprung weight..  Overdraft

GT-R is a geek's car. 

991 (what a car!) XC90 - Black/Black 2 kids, 1 dog

I cannot understand why CAR & Evo both give the 991TT not 5 stars - this car is in a 6 star category - as much as I like Evo and believe it's by far the best magazine - this is ridiculous

Enjoy 

My new blog with automotive & motorcycle renders: tessoart.blogspot.com

BjoernB:

I cannot understand why CAR & Evo both give the 991TT not 5 stars - this car is in a 6 star category - as much as I like Evo and believe it's by far the best magazine - this is ridiculous

Car, Evo and Piston Heads like to test cars in remote parts of Wales, Yorkshire and Scotland.  Here the roads are twisty, narrow, poorly surfaced, have great elevation changes and frequently livestock roaming.   Very fast driving is in the 40mph to 90mph range and there are few roads open enough to do more.  But these roads are quiet and enormous fun as long as the car is fun in that speed range.  Our motorways are heavily monitored by camera and very few people drive for extended periods at more than 100mph because the Police will notice and come after you. 

I haven’t driven the 991 Turbo but I can make an educated guess that is just not a good fit for these conditions.  It doesn’t mean it’s a poor car, it just doesn’t provide what the journalists are looking for in a sports car. 

Gen II Cayman S

GR:

BjoernB:

I cannot understand why CAR & Evo both give the 991TT not 5 stars - this car is in a 6 star category - as much as I like Evo and believe it's by far the best magazine - this is ridiculous

Car, Evo and Piston Heads like to test cars in remote parts of Wales, Yorkshire and Scotland.  Here the roads are twisty, narrow, poorly surfaced, have great elevation changes and frequently livestock roaming.   Very fast driving is in the 40mph to 90mph range and there are few roads open enough to do more.  

This is the type of roads I drive on weekends and enjoy immensely, except from the livestock. But there are cyclists and alertness is needed. The Carrera S can easily reach 200+ km/h on many sections.  Surely, the new cars and the GT3/Turbo can easily reach much higher speeds. The 90 mph is the minimum.

If you ask me this is a more realistic test of a sportscar's ability than some sterile short circuits.

--

"Form follows function"

Overdraft:

Anyone seen the 991tt or 991tts with the 20" Classic wheel on it?  Photo perhaps..?  Is it somewhat heavier then the standard tts wheel - concerned a little with unsprung weight..  Overdraft

Check out new 991 Exclusive brochure in German:

http://files3.porsche.com/filestore.aspx/Porsche-Download.pdf?pool=germany&type=download&id=991-tu-exclusivecatalogue&lang=none&filetype=default&version=adcbc0c5-a869-4084-9785-75cd9f8e2072

I saw this 991 Turbo in real life and IMHO 20" Sport Classics in Black look great on lighter colors( white, Rhodium Silver, GT Silver or Lime Gold) or medium(Sapphire Blue or Red) colors for exterior. If you decide to go for Black or Agate Grey then Sport Classics in standard GT Silver color are better choice(contrast!).

Regarding exterior colors... I like Agate Grey little bit better then before but, I still can not get it why Porsche offers so strange exterior color range for 991? I would love 991 Turbo S in BMW Space Grey Metallic(which is lighter overall then Agate Grey and is pure silver/grey without any stupid brown/green tones like in Agate Grey).

Why is Porsche lately too slow or not adding the english brochure online for the public to download ?

GR:

BjoernB:

I cannot understand why CAR & Evo both give the 991TT not 5 stars - this car is in a 6 star category - as much as I like Evo and believe it's by far the best magazine - this is ridiculous

Car, Evo and Piston Heads like to test cars in remote parts of Wales, Yorkshire and Scotland.  Here the roads are twisty, narrow, poorly surfaced, have great elevation changes and frequently livestock roaming.   Very fast driving is in the 40mph to 90mph range and there are few roads open enough to do more.  But these roads are quiet and enormous fun as long as the car is fun in that speed range.  Our motorways are heavily monitored by camera and very few people drive for extended periods at more than 100mph because the Police will notice and come after you. 

I haven’t driven the 991 Turbo but I can make an educated guess that is just not a good fit for these conditions.  It doesn’t mean it’s a poor car, it just doesn’t provide what the journalists are looking for in a sports car. 

 Really? Have you actually seen the photos and comments I posted regarding my fun weekend at Lake Garda? Trust me, the roads there are much more twisty, narrow, poorly surfaced and have immense elevation changes up to over 1500 m and more. Not much livestock but if you consider the many motorcycles livestock, you got it. 

I would also recommend checking the latest Sport Auto for Hockenheim Kleiner Kurs results, they are better than the ones of the 991 GT3. Hockenheim Kleiner Kurs is a low speed track with lots of curves.

Look at my fuel consumption and the average speed (actually the fuel consumption was higher and the average speed lower but I forgot to take a photo in time). What does it tell you? 

There is no better car for the roads you mentioned because the new 991 Turbo S has almost unlimited traction, the car is very neutral and amazingly fast.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

BiTurbo:

Why is Porsche lately too slow or not adding the english brochure online for the public to download ?

If you enjoy Porsche, you must be able to understand, at least basic German especially of the automobile related kind.

You get the flavour of the brand, better. 

I would say something analogous for Italian cars. When I drove Alfa Romeo I learned Italian. Very easy language to learn compared to German and with a better sound  

"Form follows function"

Of course there are roads where you can go faster but there tends to be more traffic to contend with as well.  Fast roads are not fun if you are stuck in a queue with no opportunities to overtake.  Personally I find it frustrating if you can do big speeds on open straight sections but then have to take the next series of bends at slow lorry pace. 

The other day I did a fantastic B road in Yorkshire where for 25 miles I was in the 40-60mph range and occasionally going a bit faster before heavy braking for the next corner or crest (or both at the same time).  I was pushing quite hard and I concede a 991 Turbo would have been a bit faster before braking and it ought to carry a few mph more through the few sighted corners.  Would it have been more fun?  Not if you can’t feel what’s going on and the UK magazines are unanimous that it lacks feel compared to the GT3 and previous generations of 911.

In the same week I drove much of North West Scotland.  There the limiting factor to my speed was traffic, wild life and road space.  Again, a 991 Turbo could only be marginally quicker overall and not necessarily more fun.  On the numerous single track roads it could well have been slower due to its width.  My friend was in an XK8, which I know is far less agile than the 991 but a factor that slowed him more than anything else was the sheer size of the car. 

Please don’t think I’m knocking the 991 Turbo – I think its technically brilliant and by far the most appealing turbo model to date.  But I also think that the latest generation of Porsches are more suited to German roads than UK ones, to the point where they have lost a key ingredient for a sports car.  That the ingredient is so subjective, even emotive, makes for lively debate but I generally agree with the journalists reasoning for not awarding 5 (or 6) stars.   

Gen II Cayman S

GR:

Please don’t think I’m knocking the 991 Turbo – I think its technically brilliant and by far the most appealing turbo model to date.  But I also think that the latest generation of Porsches are more suited to German roads than UK ones, to the point where they have lost a key ingredient for a sports car.  That the ingredient is so subjective, even emotive, makes for lively debate but I generally agree with the journalists reasoning for not awarding 5 (or 6) stars.   

Seriously? I also think British tea is more suitable for British tea drinkers. 

Are you for real? Have you actually read what you wrote because to me, it doesn't make any sense.

Maybe you should leave your island from time to time and get a reality check in Europe. If you really think that the roads in Britain are the the ones with most twists, bla bla bla, you haven't traveled much. My kids' godparents are from England (actually he is German living near Manchester and she is Scottish) but I know England (and Scotland ) pretty well and while the nature there is beautiful and some roads a pleasure to drive in a sports car, they aren't much different than in many other parts of Europe. Oh, well...sorry...people on the roads in the UK drive on the wrong side of the road, true, different. 

On a more serious note: After reading the CAR article and owning/driving the 991 Turbo S for over 2300 km now, I can only wonder how they actually came to a completely different opinion than I do. 

I agree only on the Powersteering Plus claim, this is why I didn't order it and Porsche would be well advised not to equip press test cars with that steering because it will disappoint quite a few people.

Everything else mentioned in the article about the 991 Turbo S is, how to put it in a civilized british way? Bullocks. 

Why? I can only guess: They just don't like the car or they didn't sleep well the night before, maybe Porsche didn't give them the royal treatment or they just had a bad day, I don't have a clue. 95% of what they wrote in that article is, now the German way, SCHEISSE.  Cheers. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

just as a side-note : Interestingly yesterday I had lunch with a guy who went thru it's 3rd transmission on his 2012 GTR - unfortunately we only talked cars at then end of the meeting - I didn't even knew he had one - but boy - is he a unhappy camper....  Without having driven the 991TT YET - I am sure the turbo is the best all weather weapon drivable 12 month a year - which both of my car's aren't - for that alone and it's reliability history it deserves full 5 stars. 

reginos:

BiTurbo:

Why is Porsche lately too slow or not adding the english brochure online for the public to download ?

If you enjoy Porsche, you must be able to understand, at least basic German especially of the automobile related kind.

You get the flavour of the brand, better. 

I would say something analogous for Italian cars. When I drove Alfa Romeo I learned Italian. Very easy language to learn compared to German and with a better sound  

Need to know every last detail and options that aren't showing up on build your porsche site, translating and searching will take a while

BjoernB:

just as a side-note : Interestingly yesterday I had lunch with a guy who went thru it's 3rd transmission on his 2012 GTR - unfortunately we only talked cars at then end of the meeting - I didn't even knew he had one - but boy - is he a unhappy camper....  Without having driven the 991TT YET - I am sure the turbo is the best all weather weapon drivable 12 month a year - which both of my car's aren't - for that alone and it's reliability history it deserves full 5 stars. 

I never owned a GT-R, I just drove one twice (530 hp and latest 550 hp version). Why should I lie, I liked them, especially the (Mickey Mouse cinema...as a friend called it) various displays for temperatures, etc.. I like that stuff, I have a strong nerdy side.  Yes, the cars were fast and powerful and while they actually felt heavy, they were quite the curve killers. I didn't get excited though and never actually thought of getting one (well, actually once...when I started to miss a 911 Turbo but didn't have the financial means to get one again). I just don't like how it looks, I don't like the service points (your common Nissan dealer) and I'm just not a fan of japanese sports cars, why should I lie?!

Regarding the 991 Turbo S, it is the best 911 Turbo I ever owned or drove. Honestly. The 996 Turbo was already a nice one but not powerful enough, the 997 Turbo was my dream car (much more refined) but Porsche had that crappy Tiptronic (which was fast but no fun to shift manually) and the setup of the car was like "I'm a 911, my tail has to come strongly when I fully accelerate"-type of setup which made me cry sometimes because it really was no fun (or safe) to drive with PSM turned off. My nick name for the 997 Turbo was "donut machine".  This setup and the heavy understeer, also the not so satisfying PDK and PTM setup were the reason I never got a 997.2 Turbo S. I wanted but I got a 997 Carrera GTS Cab instead, in the hope that the n/a engine would provide the fun I wanted. What a mistake. Great car, great engine but power sucked. 

I ordered the 991 Turbo S blindly, only based on the recommendation of a "friend" at Porsche who knows the cars very well before they make the streets. He also knows me very well for years now. When I wanted to get the GT3, he convinced me to get the 991 Turbo S instead. "Trust me, you are going to love the Turbo S, this car is made for you", he said and I wasn't sure what to do. The GT3 is almost 60k cheaper than the Turbo S and while this time, money wasn't a serious issue, I was still thinking "what if the Turbo S is the wrong car?". I couldn't imagine Porsche made the next generation Turbo S that much better, especially since they gave it only 30 horses more. I was very confused at that time and didn't really know what to do. This is when I was lucky enough to get more and more information about the Turbo S and it's capabilities. So I ordered the car blindly, never saw it before, never drove it before. It was end of May. End of July, I saw the car for the very first time without camouflage and was able to enjoy a ride for the very first time, even in comparison to the old 997 Turbo S. I was so amazed, so enthusiastic, I couldn't believe this car is for real. This was exactly the Turbo S I expected and wanted. "Made for me" (no kidding, I know how this sounds).

So when the car actually arrived at my dealer, I was still very optimistic and happy but I couldn't have imagined that the 991 Turbo S would actually excel my expectations. Now after a weekend around Lake Garda in Italy, most European car lovers know the roads there in the mountains and near the lake, I am convinced that the 991 Turbo S is just perfect for me. I had so much fun, even if my son got car sick (myself included...what the heck ) but I drove the hell out of this car and it didn't fail me once. No surprises, it did exactly what I expected it to do and I know this sounds weird but many cars really don't do what you "tell" them, you expect a different reaction and the car just does something else, despite the lack of any driver error. The 991 Turbo S is amazingly neutral but not boring. You can still let the tail come but it comes when you want it to. You can still do some drifting but it drifts when you want it to. It just follows your commands, I perceive the 991 Turbo S as a second skin and this means a lot to me.

It is difficult to describe but there is not much wrong with this car. Actually, if I think about it, only one thing comes to my mind: Give it 50 horses more, so I can kill everything on the road.  Chassis-wise, the car is perfect for a road car and you can even take it to the track without feeling like a fool in bends and twists. 

Then, if you want to relax and just drive home after an exciting day, you just put PDK in auto mode, PDCC in comfort mode and you enjoy a relaxed drive home and everything you remember seems so unreal.

I actually found a new nickname for my 911 Turbo S (as you remember, I called my former 997 Turbo "donut machine" or as my son called it, "El Turbo", referring to the very untamed character with PSM turned off): "Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde". I love this comparison because it describes the new 991 Turbo S in perfection. The only boring thing about the 991 Turbo S is...the driver. The driver controls the car. If he wants it to be boring, it is boring. If he wants it to be exciting, it is exciting.

Porsche achieved an engineering marvel with the 991 Turbo S, I just wish they would have put a completely new engine into the new 991 Turbo S too. Not because the engine is bad but because it is limited in power output. I just can't imagine what a company like RUF would be capable of doing with the 991 Turbo S if the engine was good for 700 or 800 horses. Oh boy...I started dreaming. 

Sorry about the long post but I really had to shake it off my mind. 

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

So how come just about every UK review has reached the same conclusion?  Just because the 991 Turbo suits you perfectly doesn't mean it s for everyone.  Time and again you have seem flabberghasted that I dislike driving the 981/991 but that is honestly how I feel (GT3 and Turbo excluded so far because I haven't tried them).

And for info I''ve driven in most Europe countries in a wide variety of cars and the UK has traditionally had a much coarser tarmac, which can really change how a car feels.  We're talking nuances here but driving a sports car is about the nuances.   Should it be a suprise that a car might be most accomplished on the roads where it spent most of its development time? 

Gen II Cayman S

So perhaps British automobile journos should count themselves lucky.   Very very few will ever purchase a new Turbo S or even drive a press fleet car for more than a day... and even then many might not comprehend which options and what effect they have.

So if the Turbo S is as flawed as they claim, they can just take smug assurance in living without one.

JimFlat6:

So perhaps British automobile journos should count themselves lucky.   Very very few will ever purchase a new Turbo S or even drive a press fleet car for more than a day... and even then many might not comprehend which options and what effect they have.

So if the Turbo S is as flawed as they claim, they can just take smug assurance in living without one.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

GR:

And for info I''ve driven in most Europe countries in a wide variety of cars and the UK has traditionally had a much coarser tarmac, which can really change how a car feels.  We're talking nuances here but driving a sports car is about the nuances.   Should it be a suprise that a car might be most accomplished on the roads where it spent most of its development time? 

I ask again: Are you serious? I get the British thing with "our island", "our currency", "our tea", "our queen" and even "our humor" but now "our roads"? Seriously?  I am sorry but while every country certainly has nuances in street quality and construction quality, the differences are usually related to nature and not the streets themselves.It is not very likely that there is really a difference in tarmac compared to other EU countries or South Africa or the United States for that matter.

I would wait for Chris Harris' verdict, I am very very curious about it since he drove the new Turbo S on the typical british roads too. 

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

My 2 cents (or should that be pence), having driven extensively throughout the UK and continental Europe, is that there is no meaningful difference in the overall nature and quality of UK roads and those in countries like Germany, Belgium etc.

Every country seems to have its fair share of billiard table smooth surfaces and pot-hole covered roads in my experience. The proportions will vary but everywhere has good and bad roads.

997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red

I find most British car magazines write more for entertainment than accuracy, which explains the different approach and conclusions that are often reached.

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997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red