Crown

Christian,

While I agree with you most of the time I have little bit different view on 991 GT3 Supertest results and comments from HvS. Even I exchanged few emails with my P source and told him that car did not reach Porsche claims in few areas(BTW, not only Porsche but, also claims from few well respected members of car press like Chris Harris or Steve Suttcliff)... Where you will ask?

-for the first time in recent Porsche history Turbo(S) is faster on the track then GT3. Personally, I do not have any problem with that. I would be pretty pissed if my 200K € car is slower on the track then similar shape 150K € model(no matter how sporty it is).

-second thing is pretty tricky one and has to do more with subjective "feeling" how sportscar should feel in its limit. SA clearly claim(and I do belive them!) that 991 GT3 is pretty tricky to drive on the limit. Remember what CH and SS claimed? That car is maybe even "tamed" in comparison to 997.2 GT3 models and that "everybody" car drive it fast. So, either SA stuff is wrong(and they are not) or CH and SS simply drove 991 GT3 way too slow and it did not show that tricky behaviour tendeny on its limit.

-real "feel"... It is most subjective thing in sportscar perception and Porsche has made an decision to give pretty different overall "feel" to 991 Turbo S and 991 GT3. What is right and what is wrong. Both, I guess but, people will here argue most.

As far as I heard, there was nothing wrong with the tested GT3. I also think that driving the car on the Nordschleife is a little bit different than having some fun on a (speed limited) spanish mountain road or in speed limited Britain. That said, I think that Porsche did the right thing here. They gave the GT3 more guts at the limit, making it more of a challenge to reach the real limit and the Turbo S an easier approach to the limit, for the sake of the driver. Not sure if this was the right decision but let's be honest with each other: The new 991 GT3 is still 8(!) seconds faster on the Nordschleife than the old one. The fact that some people took the RS 4.0 as a benchmark for the new GT3 isn't Porsche's fault, even if people close to Porsche may have mentioned the RS 4.0 once or twice.

So if we compare the 991 GT3 to the 997 GT3, there is a clear winner here. Even if we compare the 991 GT3 to the 997 GT3 RS, I think we have a clear winner. Comparing the 991 GT3 to the special edition model 997 GT3 RS 4.0 is a different story but even in this case, the 991 GT3 delivers a pretty impressive performance.

I actually think that the "problem" is not that the 991 GT3 is bad. The "problem" is that Porsche made an excellent 991 Turbo S this time. Maybe too excellent. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

KresoF1:

Christian,

While I agree with you most of the time I have little bit different view on 991 GT3 Supertest results and comments from HvS. Even I exchanged few emails with my P source and told him that car did not reach Porsche claims in few areas(BTW, not only Porsche but, also claims from few well respected members of car press like Chris Harris or Steve Suttcliff)... Where you will ask?

-for the first time in recent Porsche history Turbo(S) is faster on the track then GT3. Personally, I do not have any problem with that. I would be pretty pissed if my 200K € car is slower on the track then similar shape 150K € model(no matter how sporty it is).

-second thing is pretty tricky one and has to do more with subjective "feeling" how sportscar should feel in its limit. SA clearly claim(and I do belive them!) that 991 GT3 is pretty tricky to drive on the limit. Remember what CH and SS claimed? That car is maybe even "tamed" in comparison to 997.2 GT3 models and that "everybody" car drive it fast. So, either SA stuff is wrong(and they are not) or CH and SS simply drove 991 GT3 way too slow and it did not show that tricky behaviour tendeny on its limit.

-real "feel"... It is most subjective thing in sportscar perception and Porsche has made an decision to give pretty different overall "feel" to 991 Turbo S and 991 GT3. What is right and what is wrong. Both, I guess but, people will here argue most.

Kreso,

Like you Im believe SA..you know that Im not such a fan of the 991 GT3 - but for me they are the last real independent auto reviewers..

Why I trust HvS.?..I know all 997 GT2 - GT3 variants (except 4.0)..I remember HvS comments about 997.1 GT3 vs 997.2 GT3..he said it was a bit more comfortable, better high speed stability, steering a bit less direct etc. I thought, come on man, these differences cant be feld by most people. I traded my 3.6 for 3.8..and wonder oh wonder...I feel exactly what HvS said.

Also, dont forget, there arent many people on this world who would have more NS laps then him...in fact I could maybe think of one - walter Röhrl..but Im not sure that this is the case. HvS was testing there already in the 80´s.-..I doubt that anybody from us can teach him a lesson on that track..even if we had a GT2RS, Aventador whatever..we would loose against him in the 991 GT3.

If he says that the car is difficult at the limit (like a 997 is more difficult then I expected)..then I believe him. Porsche should now focus on the RS..this test is done and next one please. Clear is however also, this car is not a revolution either...and this fits exactly to what Bjoern said....the jump from 997 to 991 is smaller then most people think. The thing is..when you drive a 991 you think that its lightyears ahead...because its "easier" to drive..but on the track this feeling doesnt add up to huge differences..although maybe Porsche marketing will promise you something else..

BjoernB:

 the 997 had a time of 7:33 min for sure  and considering the jump Porsche made with the 991 AND a 4wheel drive the difference is marginal

Which time are you referring to for the 997 RS ? Sport Auto or the official Porsche time ?

--

 997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

Sport Auto: 997.2 GT3 RS was 7:33. The 997.2 GT3 was 7:40

"Form follows function"

Then I agree that the extra 25 HP + RWS + new chassis + PDK  are not satisfactory in improving the car only by 3 sec on the Ring . Something just doesn't match . Something is not working . Certainly not the PDK , probably not the new chassis, maybe the RWS is just a gimmick or the 25 HP are not there ............... or Porsche just wanted to keep the GT3 behind and gave it s settings ( suspension , camber )  a compromise so it can be a DD and we will see the real stuff on the RS

--

 997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

Only 1 sec actually as the 991 did 7:32 sec

"Form follows function"

Caymanisking:

I see a lot of disappointment here regarding the Sport Auto lap times of the 991 GT3. One has to keep in mind that you cannot draw firm conclusions on a small sample size. Apart from the variation in test conditions and driver performance on the day - you get variance from one specific car to the next. If the Sport Auto GT3 had for example a power output on the 10th percentile of the distribution - say 465 ps and the Turbo S and GT3 RS 4.0 on the 90th percentile of their distributions - that kind of variance in lap times is possible. I don't think Porsche would deliberately mislead the public on the 991 GT3 lap times. No one would have done more laps with different examples of the 991GT3 and GT3 RS 4.0 than Porsche and if they concluded that the 991 GT3 is marginally faster, then that is probably the case. I suggest we wait for more independent tests to build up a bigger sample before we draw firm conclusions. The Sport Auto test car also underperformed compared to Porsche figures in terms of straight line performance while we have seen examples meeting the Porsche quotes - like the one Car and Driver tested.

Great first post! 

Entirely agree and am fairly certain that the car will post more impressive results in the upcoming tests. One has to wonder whether Porsche sent out the car too early, considering the handling issues, the engine problem and the lack of recommended alignment values at this early stage.

KresoF1:

-second thing is pretty tricky one and has to do more with subjective "feeling" how sportscar should feel in its limit. SA clearly claim(and I do belive them!) that 991 GT3 is pretty tricky to drive on the limit. Remember what CH and SS claimed? That car is maybe even "tamed" in comparison to 997.2 GT3 models and that "everybody" car drive it fast. So, either SA stuff is wrong(and they are not) or CH and SS simply drove 991 GT3 way too slow and it did not show that tricky behaviour tendeny on its limit.

Thanks for the feedback, Kreso. I still believe that the GT3 has either a demanding learning curve to adapt to its handling or the test car did not work as fully expected.

GTlover:

Also, dont forget, there arent many people on this world who would have more NS laps then him...in fact I could maybe think of one - walter Röhrl..but Im not sure that this is the case. HvS was testing there already in the 80´s.-..I doubt that anybody from us can teach him a lesson on that track..even if we had a GT2RS, Aventador whatever..we would loose against him in the 991 GT3.

I don´t consider HvS to be a racecar driver. He is a very experienced journalist with lots of experience in that field but when it came for all out performance, there would be numerous people who would be faster and even might have more laps under their belt. Nonetheless, this is, as I have repeatedly mentioned, the great thing about him. He does drive the car as most of us would. If the car is difficult to handle, he will report it and it will be obvious in lap times. As I have said in the above post, the indefinite handling of the GT3 on the limit will be the reason for this particular laptime. 

SuzyF:

Ziggy:

Suzy, since you like the Turbo S so much, why don't you order a Turbo S cab and sell the Boxster in the process? Is it because you like the look of the coupe better?

Yes indeed. The 911 is a coupe that they've transformed into a cab and you can see that. The Boxster is from scratch designed as a roadster. That's why a Cayman still looks a bit odd IMO. It's a roadster, turned into a coupe.

Besides that is a coupe better suited for a daily driver and are the backseats of the coupe more usable than those in the cab.

I've always liked and still like the 911 coupe better than the cabriolet lookwise, however I find the 991 cabriolet to be a beautiful car.  That being said, your rationale makes perfectly sense.

Ziggy:

SuzyF:

Ziggy:

Suzy, since you like the Turbo S so much, why don't you order a Turbo S cab and sell the Boxster in the process? Is it because you like the look of the coupe better?

Yes indeed. The 911 is a coupe that they've transformed into a cab and you can see that. The Boxster is from scratch designed as a roadster. That's why a Cayman still looks a bit odd IMO. It's a roadster, turned into a coupe.

Besides that is a coupe better suited for a daily driver and are the backseats of the coupe more usable than those in the cab.

I've always liked and still like the 911 coupe better than the cabriolet lookwise, however I find the 991 cabriolet to be a beautiful car.  That being said, your rationale makes perfectly sense.

The 991 is definitely and by far the best looking 911 cab ever. Mainly because if the shaoe of the roof, that now actually is the same as the coupe. IMO the 991 is in general the best looking 911, but that's a matter of taste ;)

Suzy

 

RC:

As far as I heard, there was nothing wrong with the tested GT3. I also think that driving the car on the Nordschleife is a little bit different than having some fun on a (speed limited) spanish mountain road or in speed limited Britain. 

Indeed, the very same car did not too bad in the hands of a very fast amateur at HHR - also some acceleration tests he did confirmed that the car is really fast 

public roads: Porsche 981S white/black/red, toll road  : Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black

SuzyF:

Ziggy:

I've always liked and still like the 911 coupe better than the cabriolet lookwise, however I find the 991 cabriolet to be a beautiful car.  That being said, your rationale makes perfectly sense.

The 991 is definitely and by far the best looking 911 cab ever. Mainly because if the shaoe of the roof, that now actually is the same as the coupe. IMO the 991 is in general the best looking 911, but that's a matter of taste ;)

+1

991 Cab's roof is a master piece of engineering and design.

SuzyF:

Ziggy:

SuzyF:

Ziggy:

Suzy, since you like the Turbo S so much, why don't you order a Turbo S cab and sell the Boxster in the process? Is it because you like the look of the coupe better?

Yes indeed. The 911 is a coupe that they've transformed into a cab and you can see that. The Boxster is from scratch designed as a roadster. That's why a Cayman still looks a bit odd IMO. It's a roadster, turned into a coupe.

Besides that is a coupe better suited for a daily driver and are the backseats of the coupe more usable than those in the cab.

I've always liked and still like the 911 coupe better than the cabriolet lookwise, however I find the 991 cabriolet to be a beautiful car.  That being said, your rationale makes perfectly sense.

The 991 is definitely and by far the best looking 911 cab ever. Mainly because if the shaoe of the roof, that now actually is the same as the coupe. IMO the 991 is in general the best looking 911, but that's a matter of taste ;)

Agree 100%.

Porsche-Jeck:

RC:

As far as I heard, there was nothing wrong with the tested GT3. I also think that driving the car on the Nordschleife is a little bit different than having some fun on a (speed limited) spanish mountain road or in speed limited Britain. 

Indeed, the very same car did not too bad in the hands of a very fast amateur at HHR - also some acceleration tests he did confirmed that the car is really fast 

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TEwzlX6u2Y

thanks..I remember you wrote here some time that you would either envisage now a 991 GT3 or a 997.2 GT3RS..close call I would say..any decision already made..?

GTlover:

thanks..I remember you wrote here some time that you would either envisage now a 991 GT3 or a 997.2 GT3RS..close call I would say..any decision already made..?

You have a good memory, GTlover  I reserve final judgement until I had the chance to drive the 991 myself - plenty of new technology certainly effecting the drive feel at the limit, which is the most important thing to me even more so as I basically drive the car on the track only.

--

public roads: Porsche 981S white/black/red, toll road  : Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black

SuzyF:

 

The 991 is definitely and by far the best looking 911 cab ever. Mainly because if the shaoe of the roof, that now actually is the same as the coupe. IMO the 991 is in general the best looking 911, but that's a matter of taste ;)

agreed, but besides the roof, the shape of the car is improved.  given the useless sunroof [for getting sun] and the rigid cab roof silent at very high speed,  the only coupe i need is my incoming rigid roof GT3!!!  and was that car born to be silver!!  rhodium oh rhodium

Ferdie:

GTlover:

Also, dont forget, there arent many people on this world who would have more NS laps then him...in fact I could maybe think of one - walter Röhrl..but Im not sure that this is the case. HvS was testing there already in the 80´s.-..I doubt that anybody from us can teach him a lesson on that track..even if we had a GT2RS, Aventador whatever..we would loose against him in the 991 GT3.

I don´t consider HvS to be a racecar driver. He is a very experienced journalist with lots of experience in that field but when it came for all out performance, there would be numerous people who would be faster and even might have more laps under their belt. Nonetheless, this is, as I have repeatedly mentioned, the great thing about him. He does drive the car as most of us would. If the car is difficult to handle, he will report it and it will be obvious in lap times. As I have said in the above post, the indefinite handling of the GT3 on the limit will be the reason for this particular laptime. 

I thought HvS did not drive the 991GT3 for the SA test. Am I wrong? 

He is not the chief editor any longer but he does the Sport Auto supertests as a freelance driver/writer.

He also did the 4C Nurburgring lap on behalf of Alfa Romeo.

--

"Form follows function"

Personally I have NEVER enjoyed Automatic cars and now I have a Automatic GT3 on order , Man oh man, what's wrong with my current 997.2 GT3. Marketing of Porsche influence?I love this car :)  I have never been so confused about my porsche car order and I have ordered a few and the more I read these threads the more confused I get about this car.

On the other note, not sure if you guys knew but my dealer was able to put in a customer request date of March 1st in the system as the  system was showing April 1st delivery after I added the PCCB and couple other options and after he processed the request the system came back with March 14th delivery. Thats two weeks better. I didn't know there was a customer request date option. I wouldn't be surprised if it gets pushed out again and I am fine with that . I didn't even ask for this favor. Personally I hope my delivery is pushed out a few weeks  to get all the PDK issues resolved. I hate taking my car in for repairs. Porsche will get this right but hope they are not pressured to release under pressure.

reginos:

Only 1 sec actually as the 991 did 7:32 sec

Why would you compare the 991 GT3 to the 997 GT3 RS? 

Please compare the 991 GT3 to the 997 GT3, this is the only comparison which makes sense.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

RC:

 

Why would you compare the 991 GT3 to the 997 GT3 RS? 

Please compare the 991 GT3 to the 997 GT3, this is the only comparison which makes sense.

The GTS RS is suppoded to only be an extrapolation of the GT3.

If you take it as the 991 GT3 has 25 HP more then the 997 GT3 RS + RWS + new chassis that is supposed to be better + PDK , then there is something to compare .

And as it has been said , the 991 GT3  is faster then the 997 GT3 RS but only by 1 second , which is very little if you take into account the above ' better' features 

 997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

I think you all need to see the videos below. Things have moved on in the last 12 hours including a poster on Rennlist who's driven the car 48 hrs ago for a test drive (hes a 997.2 GT3RS owner and a hardcore manual guy and just put an order down on the spot) plus a guy who did the lap of the HHGP course below with traffic - he was a soccer player an amature driver driving a demonstrator Porsche provided at the track - managed a great time and believed there was easily 2-3 seconds more on teh table for him. The Imola lap below is pretty good but the driver just average. Maybe should be around 1.51.

Lastluy someone who knows the SA team said the driver guy (used to be editor now consultant) was sick on teh day (hence the wiping of nose and brow in in car footage) and couldnt even do the 991TTS lap properly. The consensus on teh team is it wasnt a strong lap at all. Maybe a rematch LOL!

Decide for yourself but we have now got 2-3 real world customer feedbacks on track and road in last 24-48 hrs and the verdict is "very very very good" even track guys with 7.2 GT3RS sating 2 seconds faster on short courses like HHGP

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-TEwzlX6u2Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=xxU4u3UqqMc

Ferdie:

GTlover:

Also, dont forget, there arent many people on this world who would have more NS laps then him...in fact I could maybe think of one - walter Röhrl..but Im not sure that this is the case. HvS was testing there already in the 80´s.-..I doubt that anybody from us can teach him a lesson on that track..even if we had a GT2RS, Aventador whatever..we would loose against him in the 991 GT3.

I don´t consider HvS to be a racecar driver. He is a very experienced journalist with lots of experience in that field but when it came for all out performance, there would be numerous people who would be faster and even might have more laps under their belt. Nonetheless, this is, as I have repeatedly mentioned, the great thing about him. He does drive the car as most of us would. If the car is difficult to handle, he will report it and it will be obvious in lap times. As I have said in the above post, the indefinite handling of the GT3 on the limit will be the reason for this particular laptime. 

Don't underestimate Horst von Saurma. He is a professional and he is very fast, not "average talented driver fast" but aster. Of course not Timo Kluck or Walter Röhrl fast but keep in mind that these two work for Porsche and also took part of the development process of various Porsche models. So it is no surprise that at some point, they would achieve better times than HvS.

Take me for example (and I'm not exaggerating now): My new 991 Turbo S feels like a second skin, this car has been "made" for me, it feels perfect in any possible way. This is a car I really can handle to the limit, I was much more afraid of the previous 997 Turbo I owned (heavy understeer and then heavy oversteer, not my cup of tea). The new car is very neutral and even with PSM turned off, the rear comes fast but highly predictable, it is a joy to drive very fast and close to the limit. 

It is very important that a car "suits" the driver and his driving style (and skills of course). I think I just found my driving perfection but I've always been a 4WD guy and don't think that driving a 4WD car is much easier since the car, once it looses grip on all four wheels suddenly (it can happen if the driver does something stupid), it can slide over all four wheels and this isn't something one can really handle, no matter how good of a driver. 

Bottom line is: The results from the SA test are quite comparable because it is always the same driver. Yes, some drivers will be faster in certain cars than HvS is but 99% of us won't. 

What I like about HvS is that he always "feels" if there is something wrong with the car, he always describes the car exactly as it is. I really think that Porsche made the new 991 GT3 a little bit trickier to drive at the limit because they wanted to make it more exciting. Not sure if this was the right decision but maybe, after this Supertest, they will change a couple of things. I wouldn't be surprised.

This doesn't change much regarding the test results though: The 991 GT3 is a very fast car and I still don't understand why there seems to be so much disappointment.  Why would people compare the 991 GT3 to the former 997 GT3 RS or even the RS 4.0? Doesn't make any sense to me.  The 991 GT3 is the successor of the 997 GT3.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

Here are the comments from Peter in Stuttgart on the other board. He has had many GT3 and alot of track experience...

Disapointed by SA-test --> yes
Seeing someone doing fast laps without helmet --> no go (kills reputation for SA in my opinion; but HvS is not heading SA anymore so maybe all will be good)
test drove the car this week. Disapointet --> NOT AT ALL! 
Big surprise --> I even liked PDK (I am an Autobox hater )
Final simple conclusion --> I will order one

Press? Are you kidding me 
No sure not!
Actually "my" Porsche Center had a GT3 for 2 days.
GT3 buyers and serious interested people were allowed a one hour test drive (streets only obviously). 
Fortunately it was a dry day in between some real sh_ty weather.
I am not used to auto boxes so first km have been "special". Actually the PDK was my biggest concern but to my total surprise it was brilliant. I have to admit so that most of the time I used the paddles and drove in manual mode - it is a blast. And even in Auto mode it picks up your "level of attack" very nicely and reacts quickly to the drving style. But manual it is really great - "banging" in the gears and sounding a bit like a Cup car.
And the 9 krpm is PLAIN CRAZY 
This allone made my mind: I WANT TO HAVE ONE.

Remark: the next day I drove a 991 Turbo S - OK the shove is unreal but to me the GT3 ws mcuh more thrilling and felt "RAZOR SHARP".

If you are at 7 k rpm it allready sounds unreal. At 8 k you just think "OMG another 1000 to go".....

Obviously on the street I was not able to push enough to compare to my "former) GT3RSII but I am convinced that I can perform with better lap times on the track.
On the street I was not able to notice the influence of RWS. The car is just "sharp" but I was not able to tell that this was coming from the RWS system.
All in all I would say that it has a bigger stretch of personality than the RS I had. It will be fast on the track - very fast I assume - but it will also be easier to live with on a day to day basis. The RS I could not really enjoy on the street so I ended up using it only on the track but I also want to enjoy a (the) car more often so street driving is also an issue for me (bought an 991S with manual tranny and tried on track but was not good but on the street it is very good). So I assume it will be very good choice fo both worlds.
Anyhow I have also an option for the 991GT3RS and the ieda of the test drive was actually to see if I could accept an RS with PDK. But the GT3 got me so hooked (within just one hour of driving it ) that I decided not to wait for the RS for another year and "waste" my time in the 991S.

For me, the hour test drive in the GT3 was an eye opener and if you would have told me a few month ago that I would enjoy a drive in a PDK equipped car I would have laughed at you .... Well I can't trust myself anymore it seems 

I was told that if I would order the car now chances would be good for March/April next year - guess I will sign soon .

Hope this is what you guys wanted to hear

Now I go to hypernation and wake up when the car will be delivered :-) adn if someone is interested in a wonderful 991S in white with manual tranny than drop me a note 

I am from Germany. More or less on the other side of Stuttgart in relation to Zuffenhausen - so close enough.
My Porsche Center has good connections to the PAG - they are doing the service for the "Porsche Sports Cup" in Germany.
I have also some pics form the car I drove but do not know at the moment how I can inlcude them - sorry - but working on it ...

Hi guys:

Thanks for all your positive feedback. Not always easy (for me) to express what I have felt and found in English 

@drifting: the day after the GT3 test drive I had the chance to also drive the 991 Turbo-S and had a chance to compare the two different PDK styles.
The Turbo-S PDF seemed for me to be closer to a "regular Auto box". The GT3 seems to be more "connected" to what I was doing. Also the shorter gearing of the GT3 and the 7th gear which is not an overdrive make a difference (not sure if I reached 7th gear in the GT3 - in the Turbo I did). 
In the GT3 I did not really use the Sport button - just not necessary. In the Turbo I used it to keep it away from shifting up all to soon (in Auto). In Manual mode I found the paddles in the GT3 more direct operating and shifting also seems quicker. I am not a car testing Journo so if driving a car in comparison 24 hours later it is difficult to compare these nuances. Maybe if you do it back to back the same day .... Also I have to admit that the hour in the GT3 felt so intense that it was tough for me to catch all details  - which I say is a good sign.
Anyhow the T-S is a rocket ship but clearly with another goal. Hitting 200 km/h in very short time/distance is so easy but the GT3 does this differently and for me in a more thrilling way ... maybe a little bit slower but who cares

@ todo: Well I was thinking to either get a GT3 or scratch my itch for a Turbo. So it was great to have the chance to test drive both within 24 hours.
If I would not have driven the GT3 before or in order to compare with the Turbo-S I guess I would have been sold to the T-S (even so I would go for the normal Turbo without S in order to save the not insicnificant amount of 30000 Euro = approx. 40000 $). The shove is B I G but comapred to the direct wired throttle feeling of the NA GT3 engine it just is missing something in the Turbo (at least for me). And direct wired in this case is like direct wired to your brain! So all the mighty torque from the Turbo is not replacing what the high reving GT3 can offer - also from the sound point of view - or hearing in that case :-). Also did not like the 4-WD feeling too much. 
In the GT3 it was very nice and controllable to get the rear axle working in tight second gear corners and get some slip angle - a feeling that was close to the GT3RSII if not better. Not possible for me in the Turbo so (lack of talent ).

So as you can see the Turbo is mighty impressive but the GT3 is for me more exciting - razor sharp as they say - and would provide more excitement and special feeling every time I would (and will) drive it.
And if you compare the price of a sensible speced GT3 to a Turbo-S it seems like a steal ....


Peter

Will try to provide some pics later 

More comments of interest....

AFAIK it is a former soccer player who is actually doing quite good driving (he was also participating in Sport Autos "Tuner GP". I just do not have the name at the moment. It was not his car. No customer cars so far available.
The president of the Porsche Club Germany (PCD) will get the first one and he is also still waiting 

But yes, he is not a Pro and yes that was definitly not the fastest possible.

Here from another guy from Ireland who has a Cup car and is know in racing circles in Europe...feeling was definately HvS was not at his best - maybe he had the flu or somethiing!

thanks peterfirst...I have ordered mine in gt silver for December...my heads wrecked looking at that colour lovely
just ordered 991 cup today also

my frend was testing the gt3 on that day in Germany also and said car would eat 997s gt3 and the 4.0 easy and he good driver

by the way anyone over in germany looking for a 12/11 or 13 cup at good price mail me at
karlleonard2003@yahoo.ie

my friends reply was 

Horst von Saurma had not his best Day when he Test the 991 GT3, he was couple of times beside the Track........Christian Gebhardt was 0.5 sek faster then HvS on the Turbo S, the time wich is published are from Gebhardt.

I personal think the 991 GT3 will do just under 1.09..... The 991 GT3 will beat every 997 GT3 RS on any Track , maybe the 4.0 RS can Keep the Pace...... Dont Forget it's just the normal GT3 not MK2 no RS

Sorry for pasting lots of stuff. This is just passed on - I am not the originator...

Gnil:

RC:

 

Why would you compare the 991 GT3 to the 997 GT3 RS? 

Please compare the 991 GT3 to the 997 GT3, this is the only comparison which makes sense.

The GTS RS is suppoded to only be an extrapolation of the GT3.

If you take it as the 991 GT3 has 25 HP more then the 997 GT3 RS + RWS + new chassis that is supposed to be better + PDK , then there is something to compare .

And as it has been said , the 991 GT3  is faster then the 997 GT3 RS but only by 1 second , which is very little if you take into account the above ' better' features 

Finally somebody understanding me ! By no means do I want to bash the 991 GT3 - and with RC's "only the latest is the greatest" consistancy it's hard to bring my point.