Crown

copy&paste from pistonheads, posting of COMPDES of yesterday (i hope it os ok by the forum rules to copy over):

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Hi All,

Have been following the thread for what feels like an eternity! I'm based in Germany and ordered my GT3 back in May for an October Delivery, now delayed to end of Nov. 

The dealer here has also been told very little officially from the main factory other than whats already been said by Porsche GB. However, one of the salesmen has a guy on the inside at Porsche Motorsport who has been feeding him some info. As it stands today they say no cars will be delivered before mid november to anywhere in the world. They have produced 20 cars so far and they are all basically quarantined pending further production sign off. They are very paranoid about sending out the cars knowing there could be a fault which they then subsequently recall in Feb/March next year prior to the driving season kicking off and having irate customers. They told me there were similar launch /recall issues with the 997 and are not prepared to repeat that experience. The whole of Porsche Motorsport has been sworn to secrecy and are not saying what is causing the delay. The guy at the dealer has been unofficially told it might be something to do with the rear wheel steering system which differs from the Turbo system due to the addition of 4WD on the Turbo models. (There is a new Turbo S at my dealers which I'm testing next week.) 

All in all not really covering themselves in glory. My dealer has been very good through out at updating me, but obviously doesn't change the fact that I probably won't be driving it this side of Christmas or even February with the winter we have here. Also not helped by the fact that my salesman had a passenger ride with one of the work drivers at Weissach recently and reported to me that it was epic....

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well at least porsche discovered it before delivery.

peter

AAHTT:

nberry:

This deserves its own thread but I am unable to post a new thread. From CAR magazine Supercar Shootout.

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/991-gt3/780289-car-magazine-supercar-shootout.html

wow, test? what test? i dont see any detailed performance numbers. unless there are pages missing from the article, this should be instead called: the 2013 supersubjective giant test...

Objectivity has a place and the tests they do in year are more balanced.  But these annual tests are about subjectivity - which cars do they want to drive more, get the best experience from.  For me that is more important than outright performance - especially for something as emotive as a sports car.  Over time and driving different cars, you find out which journo's and even magazines have similar views to your own, which helps with some context on the subjective views.  For example, I find the 981 Cayman S fantastically balanced but let down by "sterile" (read numb) steering so this test resonantes strongly for me. 

Generally I agree with CAR, Pistonheads and EVO and have fundamental disagreements with Autoexpress.  But my views are very much my own.  Perhaps it being a UK based magazine helps - they drive the cars on the roads I like to drive on. 

Gen II Cayman S

moo:

MKSGR:

moo:

ferraris and lambos are highly priced quality products, they certainly match the german build quality.

 

 It would be nice if that was the case... How many miles did you do with your F458, BTW?

i am (northern) italian and i disagree. you seem to have a very one-sided view of italy. just go over to the ferrarichat forum and check the problems people report. certainly not more (rather less) than on any porsche forum. while the ferraris before the 430 gen had serious issues, this is a thing of the past. 

the car that gave me most problems of all the cars i ever had was the carrera C4S 997 gen 2.

i have done 6k km with the f458.

peter

I guess there aren't many Ferrari owners in the Ferrari forums, simply because there aren't many Ferrari out there and if they are, they are usually owned by people who stay away from internet forums. 

I get it...national pride (you mentioned you are northern Italian, usually those Italians mention it who don't want to have anything to do with the poorer south ) and all but I'm afraid that one of our owners/admins has had three Ferrari (430, 458 and now 458 Spider) and he always had issues with the cars. Not major issues but enough to annoy him. Btw: He has over 40k km on his 458 Spider now. 

The problem seems still to be quality control and how the guy who worked on the car slept, if the spaghetti were aldente enough or if he had a fight with his wife (or his mama ) the night before. Yes, I know...prejudice but we all know that prejudice usually exists for a reason, even if it isn't always valid.

Looking at the production numbers of Ferrari and Porsche, including their development budget, I think that Ferrari does quite well but they also produce only a very limited range of models, so it is much easier for them.

In no way do I want to bash Ferrari, they build wonderful cars but I am a Porsche nut for a reason and one reason is not only reliability (all my 12 Porsche cars have been quite reliable over the years) but also the capabilities of a daily driver. Soon I am going to put winter wheels on my car and yes, I am going to drive it the whole winter. Even thinking about driving to our ski resort with it since my wife proposed to take the train with the luggage because she wants me to have fun (can you believe that? ). I have seen a Ferrari 458 once in Bavaria last winter (for the first time) but after I "killed" him in my Panamera Turbo S (he tried, he had winter tires), I think he didn't really enjoy the car. After a couple of some serious sideway slides in curves, he fell back. His appetite was gone and probably his fun too. 

Bottom line is: If I could afford a couple of different sports cars at the same time, there would definitely be a Ferrari among them too, very likely the F12 right now. Since I can afford only one sports car, the 991 Turbo S it is. It covers all worlds perfectly and this is what counts for me. I am pretty sure that you see things differently and I respect that.

Back to topic (GT3): The 991 GT3 is a wonderful car and fun to drive. The perfect weekend getaway from stress and work. With no kids/family and a better weather over here, I would have probably chosen the GT3 instead of the 991 Turbo S. While the Turbo S is very close to the GT3 in steering/chassis feel, the GT3 still adds that certain special feel of a race car, with that superfast PDK, the amazing engine which revs so high and the even slightly firmer drive feel. A GT3 is a GT3, Porsche kind of created a category of it's own in my opinion. If you choose an almost "naked" car, the GT3 is really a bargain. I don't understand people who order a Carrera S without needing the back seats. Most Carrera S I've seen so far have a price tag of 135k EUR with options. This is GT3 price territory. Yes, I get it, the rear wing and so on but still, I would always opt for the GT3 if I wouldn't need the backseats. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

moo:

 

in 2010 i rented an f458 for a couple of days in dubai. after 10 minutes or so the lever for window up/down came off on the driver side, 10 min later on the passenger side. i was appalled. contrarily my 2013 F458 has so far shown no rattle and or even a slight built-imperfection. whatever happens in the future, rattle or any ther problem,

This is one of the problems with limited production manufacturers. Part of the testing is done by the owners and by the time some issues are sorted the next model comes and same again.

I haven't seen any pictures of a Ferrari mule extensively testing in the Arctic Circle, Death Valley or Dubai, for example. I don't think that some kilometers around Modena and few laps in Fiorano would suffice.

Lamborghini I don't know, but I trust Audi and Piech for thoroughness more than the guys in Maranello.

BTW, I am awaiting to change from BMW to Ducati soon, once the influence of Audi is complete.

--

"Form follows function"

GR:

AAHTT:

nberry:

This deserves its own thread but I am unable to post a new thread. From CAR magazine Supercar Shootout.

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/991-gt3/780289-car-magazine-supercar-shootout.html

wow, test? what test? i dont see any detailed performance numbers. unless there are pages missing from the article, this should be instead called: the 2013 supersubjective giant test...

Objectivity has a place and the tests they do in year are more balanced.  But these annual tests are about subjectivity - which cars do they want to drive more, get the best experience from.  For me that is more important than outright performance - especially for something as emotive as a sports car.  Over time and driving different cars, you find out which journo's and even magazines have similar views to your own, which helps with some context on the subjective views.  For example, I find the 981 Cayman S fantastically balanced but let down by "sterile" (read numb) steering so this test resonantes strongly for me. 

Generally I agree with CAR, Pistonheads and EVO and have fundamental disagreements with Autoexpress.  But my views are very much my own.  Perhaps it being a UK based magazine helps - they drive the cars on the roads I like to drive on. 

I agree that these tests which resemble extended test drives are more meaningful for the prospective owner. The only statistic that interests me is the NBR lap time, because it is a long circuit that relates to a road course.

Very few owners proportionately,  track their cars or care to numerically test the acceleration/braking figures etc.

What makes the difference for the typical owner is feel, enjoyment and value (even rich people or rather it is the rich people who don't want to throw money away for nothing).

--

"Form follows function"

RC:

moo:

MKSGR:

moo:

ferraris and lambos are highly priced quality products, they certainly match the german build quality.

 

 It would be nice if that was the case... How many miles did you do with your F458, BTW?

i am (northern) italian and i disagree. you seem to have a very one-sided view of italy. just go over to the ferrarichat forum and check the problems people report. certainly not more (rather less) than on any porsche forum. while the ferraris before the 430 gen had serious issues, this is a thing of the past. 

the car that gave me most problems of all the cars i ever had was the carrera C4S 997 gen 2.

i have done 6k km with the f458.

peter

I guess there aren't many Ferrari owners in the Ferrari forums, simply because there aren't many Ferrari out there and if they are, they are usually owned by people who stay away from internet forums. 

I get it...national pride (you mentioned you are northern Italian, usually those Italians mention it who don't want to have anything to do with the poorer south and all but I'm afraid that one of our owners/admins has had three Ferrari (430, 458 and now 458 Spider) and he always had issues with the cars. Not major issues but enough to annoy him. Btw: He has over 40k km on his 458 Spider now. 

The problem seems still to be quality control and how the guy who worked on the car slept, if the spaghetti were aldente enough or if he had a fight with his wife (or his mama ) the night before. Yes, I know...prejudice but we all know that prejudice usually exists for a reason, even if it isn't always valid.

Looking at the production numbers of Ferrari and Porsche, including their development budget, I think that Ferrari does quite well but they also produce only a very limited range of models, so it is much easier for them.

In no way do I want to bash Ferrari, they build wonderful cars but I am a Porsche nut for a reason and one reason is not only reliability (all my 12 Porsche cars have been quite reliable over the years) but also the capabilities of a daily driver. Soon I am going to put winter wheels on my car and yes, I am going to drive it the whole winter. Even thinking about driving to our ski resort with it since my wife proposed to take the train with the luggage because she wants me to have fun (can you believe that? ). I have seen a Ferrari 458 once in Bavaria last winter (for the first time) but after I "killed" him in my Panamera Turbo S (he tried, he had winter tires), I think he didn't really enjoy the car. After a couple of some serious sideway slides in curves, he fell back. His appetite was gone and probably his fun too. 

Bottom line is: If I could afford a couple of different sports cars at the same time, there would definitely be a Ferrari among them too, very likely the F12 right now. Since I can afford only one sports car, the 991 Turbo S it is. It covers all worlds perfectly and this is what counts for me. I am pretty sure that you see things differently and I respect that.

Back to topic (GT3): The 991 GT3 is a wonderful car and fun to drive. The perfect weekend getaway from stress and work. With no kids/family and a better weather over here, I would have probably chosen the GT3 instead of the 991 Turbo S. While the Turbo S is very close to the GT3 in steering/chassis feel, the GT3 still adds that certain special feel of a race car, with that superfast PDK, the amazing engine which revs so high and the even slightly firmer drive feel. A GT3 is a GT3, Porsche kind of created a category of it's own in my opinion. If you choose an almost "naked" car, the GT3 is really a bargain. I don't understand people who order a Carrera S without needing the back seats. Most Carrera S I've seen so far have a price tag of 135k EUR with options. This is GT3 price territory. Yes, I get it, the rear wing and so on but still, I would always opt for the GT3 if I wouldn't need the backseats. 

come on RC, you often make sense when you write about cars (except when you write about the turbo S  ) but your geo-politics and insights into national behavioral patters are - to put it into the least - highly questionable but certainly entertaining. 

go out and buy a ferrari to get some fun into your life ,

peter

ps: just for your info, my national pride is totally underdeveloped, after having spent 90% of my adult life all over the world. i do not care about the scuderia ferrari, the azzurri..... but yes, i like my pasta very aldente.

MKSGR:

You get the same service with Porsche (in Germany). However, you have to pay for extension of the official 2-year warranty 

In Switzerland we get a free 2+2 year warranty and the free Swiss Package (which adds a lot of nice options, especially on the Turbo and turbo S BTW)

Suzy

 

SuzyF:

MKSGR:

You get the same service with Porsche (in Germany). However, you have to pay for extension of the official 2-year warranty 

In Switzerland we get a free 2+2 year warranty and the free Swiss Package (which adds a lot of nice options, especially on the Turbo and turbo S BTW)

The Porsche extended warranty goes from year 3 up to year 9, annually renewable or prepaid for 2 years. It costs me a bit more than 1.000 EUR for the Carrera S and just below 1.000 for the Boxster, each year.

IMO, it gives peace of mind if you consider how many things can break down or go wrong and the consequent cost.  It is cheaper than my Motor Insurance.

"Form follows function"

moo:

RC:

moo:

MKSGR:

moo:

ferraris and lambos are highly priced quality products, they certainly match the german build quality.

 

 It would be nice if that was the case... How many miles did you do with your F458, BTW?

i am (northern) italian and i disagree. you seem to have a very one-sided view of italy. just go over to the ferrarichat forum and check the problems people report. certainly not more (rather less) than on any porsche forum. while the ferraris before the 430 gen had serious issues, this is a thing of the past. 

the car that gave me most problems of all the cars i ever had was the carrera C4S 997 gen 2.

i have done 6k km with the f458.

peter

I guess there aren't many Ferrari owners in the Ferrari forums, simply because there aren't many Ferrari out there and if they are, they are usually owned by people who stay away from internet forums. 

I get it...national pride (you mentioned you are northern Italian, usually those Italians mention it who don't want to have anything to do with the poorer south and all but I'm afraid that one of our owners/admins has had three Ferrari (430, 458 and now 458 Spider) and he always had issues with the cars. Not major issues but enough to annoy him. Btw: He has over 40k km on his 458 Spider now. 

The problem seems still to be quality control and how the guy who worked on the car slept, if the spaghetti were aldente enough or if he had a fight with his wife (or his mama ) the night before. Yes, I know...prejudice but we all know that prejudice usually exists for a reason, even if it isn't always valid.

Looking at the production numbers of Ferrari and Porsche, including their development budget, I think that Ferrari does quite well but they also produce only a very limited range of models, so it is much easier for them.

In no way do I want to bash Ferrari, they build wonderful cars but I am a Porsche nut for a reason and one reason is not only reliability (all my 12 Porsche cars have been quite reliable over the years) but also the capabilities of a daily driver. Soon I am going to put winter wheels on my car and yes, I am going to drive it the whole winter. Even thinking about driving to our ski resort with it since my wife proposed to take the train with the luggage because she wants me to have fun (can you believe that? ). I have seen a Ferrari 458 once in Bavaria last winter (for the first time) but after I "killed" him in my Panamera Turbo S (he tried, he had winter tires), I think he didn't really enjoy the car. After a couple of some serious sideway slides in curves, he fell back. His appetite was gone and probably his fun too. 

Bottom line is: If I could afford a couple of different sports cars at the same time, there would definitely be a Ferrari among them too, very likely the F12 right now. Since I can afford only one sports car, the 991 Turbo S it is. It covers all worlds perfectly and this is what counts for me. I am pretty sure that you see things differently and I respect that.

Back to topic (GT3): The 991 GT3 is a wonderful car and fun to drive. The perfect weekend getaway from stress and work. With no kids/family and a better weather over here, I would have probably chosen the GT3 instead of the 991 Turbo S. While the Turbo S is very close to the GT3 in steering/chassis feel, the GT3 still adds that certain special feel of a race car, with that superfast PDK, the amazing engine which revs so high and the even slightly firmer drive feel. A GT3 is a GT3, Porsche kind of created a category of it's own in my opinion. If you choose an almost "naked" car, the GT3 is really a bargain. I don't understand people who order a Carrera S without needing the back seats. Most Carrera S I've seen so far have a price tag of 135k EUR with options. This is GT3 price territory. Yes, I get it, the rear wing and so on but still, I would always opt for the GT3 if I wouldn't need the backseats. 

come on RC, you often make sense when you write about cars (except when you write about the turbo S  ) but your geo-politics and insights into national behavioral patters are - to put it into the least - highly questionable but certainly entertaining. 

go out and buy a ferrari to get some fun into your life ,

peter

ps: just for your info, my national pride is totally underdeveloped, after having spent 90% of my adult life all over the world. i do not care about the scuderia ferrari, the azzurri..... but yes, i like my pasta very aldente.

Im with you Peter..I agree to everything RC said..except these "stupid" sterotypes on Italians. By the way, it was Ferrari who dominated F1 a few years ago..but lets go into the details. Who is the Ferrari F1 team? Its a bunch of international crowds..not only Italian. ..no spaghetti mentality there anymore. We are not living in the 60s anylonger.

On top, people have been saying that the Italian Ferrari factory is not up to date and so on..guys..please. What is a Ferrari 458 today? Its a car - a bunch parts bolted together that were designed and built all over the world - like a Porsche. In fact both companies use sometimes the same suppliers..and if its on a Ferrari then its bad or what?

In fact, do you know how many parts of the 991 are manufactured in Germany - or maybe even some (many) parts are now manufactured in CZ, HU..even Ukraine is in there for the 991. If you would make a comparison of how many parts from a 458 would come from certain countries compared to a 991? I think the 458 would come out as winner..yes its more expensive - I know.

But I was disapppointed to read such statements here on Rennteam, an international forum. Im neither Italian, but I work at many places around the world. Nationality is not a reason for "failures"..therefore saying that cars from Italy can never be as good a german ones..is complete bs for me. Sorry for my words..

When I look in the other german Porsche forum I only see complaints about the 991 of technical nature, blown engines, PDK updates, and so on and so on..not talking about CL issues, IMS for 996-997 engines ...

PS: Im neither a big Ferrari fan..but arguments shoud be based on fair points. I work with some Italians..and they are much more pleasant to live with - work with -than others.

PS2: we even have an Italian lady here..so show some respect for her..

GTlover:

 

Im with you Peter..I agree to everything RC said..except these stupid sterotypes on Italians. By the way, it was Ferrari who dominated F1 a few years ago..but lets go into the details. Who is the Ferrari F1 team? Its a bunch of international crowds..not only Italian. ..no spaghetti mentality there anymore. We are not living in the 60s anylonger.

The F1 Ferrari team is international, the Ferrari development/engineering/production for street cars isn't.

On top, people have been saying that the Italian Ferrari factory is not up to date and so on..guys..please. What is a Ferrari 458 today? Its a car - a bunch parts bolted together that were designed and built all over the world - like a Porsche. In fact both companies use sometimes the same suppliers..and if its on a Ferrari then its bad or what?

Wrong. Yes, suppliers are often the same but they build the parts to specs. Also, the manufacturing process is very important too and this happens in Italy...with Italian workers and Italian mentality sometimes. 

In fact, do you know how many parts of the 991 are manufactured in Germany - or maybe even some (many) parts are now manufactured in Poland..even Ukraine is in there for the 991. If you would make a comparison of how many parts from a 458 would come from certain countries compared to a 991? I think the 458 would come out as winner..yes its more expensive - I know.

Again, I think you didn't understand what I meant. I was talking about workers, not part suppliers (which usually are not even in Italy).

But I was disapppointed to read such statements here on Rennteam, an international forum. Im neither Italian, but I work at many places around the world. Nationality is not a reason for "failures"..therefore saying that cars from Italy can never be as good a german ones..is complete bs for me. Sorry for my words..

I am quite often in North Italy and you know how often I heard complaints about work mentality...from ITALIANS?

I never said that cars from Italy can never be as good as German ones, I was talking about Ferrari...specifically...and the reasons some cars seem to be perfect and others have huge issues (experience from MKGSR and CR).

When I look in the other german Porsche forum I only see complaints about the 991 of technical nature, blown engines, PDK updates, and so on and so on..not talking about CL issues, IMS for 996-997 engines ...

How many Ferrari 458 are there out there and how many 991? Point made.

PS: Im neither a big Ferrari fan..but arguments shoud be based on fair points.

I am more than fair.

PS2: we even have an Italien lady here..so show some respect for her..

She is a meisje, not Italian.Only half-italian. 

C'mon, are you serious? We talk about flaws and funny stuff about every nation on the forum and sometimes even succumb to stereotypes because there is always some truth in it...and it is fun.

Maybe you drank too much coffee today, just saying.  

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

RC:

GTlover:

 

Im with you Peter..I agree to everything RC said..except these stupid sterotypes on Italians. By the way, it was Ferrari who dominated F1 a few years ago..but lets go into the details. Who is the Ferrari F1 team? Its a bunch of international crowds..not only Italian. ..no spaghetti mentality there anymore. We are not living in the 60s anylonger.

The F1 Ferrari team is international, the Ferrari development/engineering/production for street cars isn't.

On top, people have been saying that the Italian Ferrari factory is not up to date and so on..guys..please. What is a Ferrari 458 today? Its a car - a bunch parts bolted together that were designed and built all over the world - like a Porsche. In fact both companies use sometimes the same suppliers..and if its on a Ferrari then its bad or what?

Wrong. Yes, suppliers are often the same but they build the parts to specs. Also, the manufacturing process is very important too and this happens in Italy...with Italian workers and Italian mentality sometimes. 

In fact, do you know how many parts of the 991 are manufactured in Germany - or maybe even some (many) parts are now manufactured in Poland..even Ukraine is in there for the 991. If you would make a comparison of how many parts from a 458 would come from certain countries compared to a 991? I think the 458 would come out as winner..yes its more expensive - I know.

Again, I think you didn't understand what I meant. I was talking about workers, not part suppliers (which usually are not even in Italy).

But I was disapppointed to read such statements here on Rennteam, an international forum. Im neither Italian, but I work at many places around the world. Nationality is not a reason for "failures"..therefore saying that cars from Italy can never be as good a german ones..is complete bs for me. Sorry for my words..

I am quite often in North Italy and you know how often I heard complaints about work mentality...from ITALIANS?

I never said that cars from Italy can never be as good as German ones, I was talking about Ferrari...specifically...and the reasons some cars seem to be perfect and others have huge issues (experience from MKGSR and CR).

When I look in the other german Porsche forum I only see complaints about the 991 of technical nature, blown engines, PDK updates, and so on and so on..not talking about CL issues, IMS for 996-997 engines ...

How many Ferrari 458 are there out there and how many 991? Point made.

PS: Im neither a big Ferrari fan..but arguments shoud be based on fair points.

I am more than fair.

PS2: we even have an Italien lady here..so show some respect for her..

She is a meisje, not Italian.Only half-italian. 

C'mon, are you serious? We talk about flaws and funny stuff about every nation on the forum and sometimes even succumb to stereotypes because there is always some truth in it...and it is fun.

Maybe you drank too much coffee today, just saying.  

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

yes..too many Italian (strong) coffees

but more seriously, I cant agree to everything you write..but its a matter of personal opinion - the difference would be on "% of faults in cars - due to bad-sleeping workers - or due to bad design etc". In a very high amount of cases you would see that "workers" are not responsible, its mostly badly designed due lack of testing/funding - or interfaces havent been taken care of properly. This is not the workers mistake. A worker from Porsche is usually not responsible if the engine in a 997 blows..or?

But OK..lets stay on the fun side - I think most of us prefer Italian food over German food..point made - or?.

RC:

GTlover:.

PS2: we even have an Italien lady here..so show some respect for her..

She is a meisje, not Italian.Only half-italian. 

Suddenly this makes me realize I'm a hybrid  And i hate hybrids!!  LOL

No... Just kidding. i have the best of both worlds... Italian looks and passion mixed with Dutch sobriety and business instinct   Damn I'm so good!  

C'mon, are you serious? We talk about flaws and funny stuff about every nation on the forum and sometimes even succumb to stereotypes because there is always some truth in it...and it is fun.

Maybe you drank too much coffee today, just saying.  

If it is caffé corretto with a drizzle of sambuca, I want some too!!

Suzy

 

SuzyF:

RC:

GTlover:.

PS2: we even have an Italien lady here..so show some respect for her..

She is a meisje, not Italian.Only half-italian. 

Suddenly this makes me realize I'm a hybrid  And i hate hybrids!!  LOL

 

No... Just kidding. i have the best of both worlds... Italian looks and passion mixed with Dutch sobriety and business instinct   Damn I'm so good!  

 

 

C'mon, are you serious? We talk about flaws and funny stuff about every nation on the forum and sometimes even succumb to stereotypes because there is always some truth in it...and it is fun.

Maybe you drank too much coffee today, just saying.  

If it is caffé corretto with a drizzle of sambuca, I want some too!!

 

 

Ok then..next time Im in CH..we can go for that " caffee corretto.."..whatever that is

if RC continues to talk badly about italians we put him on a ferrari-only diet for the whole winter---)))))

cheers peter

GTlover:

 

Ok then..next time Im in CH..we can go for that " caffee corretto.."..whatever that is

Hahaha. It's just an espresso with a shot high percentage liquor (mostly grappa, but I like sambuca) 

Suzy

 

i can offer my location for a rennteam espresso meet!"

but without Ferrari,only Porsche cars can run trough the gate of my house...

997TT RS Tuning stage II(sold),2011 Cayenne Turbo

moo:

if RC continues to talk badly about italians we put him on a ferrari-only diet for the whole winter---)))))

cheers peter

Don't twist my words. I was talking badly about Ferrari and the Italians who build them, not about Italians. You must be a lawyer by profession.  Yes, more stereotyping... 

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

Super Darius:

i can offer my location for a rennteam espresso meet!"

 

but without Ferrari,only Porsche cars can run trough the gate of my house...

Hahaha!!

RC:

moo:

if RC continues to talk badly about italians we put him on a ferrari-only diet for the whole winter---)))))

cheers peter

Don't twist my words. I was talking badly about Ferrari and the Italians who build them, not about Italians. You must be a lawyer by profession.  Yes, more stereotyping... 

@ Peter: Regarding that Ferrari-only diet... It would probably have the opposite effect on RC... He would even be more negative about Ferrari   

Suzy

 

SuzyF:

@ Peter: Regarding that Ferrari-only diet... It would probably have the opposite effect on RC... He would even be more negative about Ferrari 

 Actually I like Ferrari but I'm more into the FF and the F12, not the 458. I almost got myself a F12 (it was closer than many of you may realize ) but in the end, my brains (and my wife ) won. 

In retrospect, I do not regret getting the 991 Turbo S but the Ferrari was tempting.

I love cars and especially sports cars. So why should I be negative about Ferrari? I just think that they are not always exactly what many people expect them to be (which has been confirmed by MKGSR and other people I know). Would I have one in my garage if I could afford several sports cars at the same time? Definitely yes.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

I was just making fun ;)

I know you like ferrari. Let's be honest... every petrolhead does... me too, but just like you, I'm not such a big fan of the 458. That said.. it still gets my attention when one drives by. The F12 is the most beautiful Ferrari of the last couple of years IMO. Timeless beauty....

Suzy

 

SuzyF:

I was just making fun ;)

I know you like ferrari. Let's be honest... every petrolhead does... me too, but just like you, I'm not such a big fan of the 458. That said.. it still gets my attention when one drives by. The F12 is the most beautiful Ferrari of the last couple of years IMO. Timeless beauty....

Oh yes, the F12...still on my mind (like a lost love  ).

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

SuzyF:

RC:

GTlover:.

PS2: we even have an Italien lady here..so show some respect for her..

She is a meisje, not Italian.Only half-italian. 

Suddenly this makes me realize I'm a hybrid  And i hate hybrids!!  LOL

 

No... Just kidding. i have the best of both worlds... Italian looks and passion mixed with Dutch sobriety and business instinct   Damn I'm so good!  

 

 

C'mon, are you serious? We talk about flaws and funny stuff about every nation on the forum and sometimes even succumb to stereotypes because there is always some truth in it...and it is fun.

Maybe you drank too much coffee today, just saying.  

If it is caffé corretto with a drizzle of sambuca, I want some too!!

 

 

Definitely after all these comments the true winner is Suzy!

There is no try. Just do.

RC:

moo:

if RC continues to talk badly about italians we put him on a ferrari-only diet for the whole winter---)))))

cheers peter

Don't twist my words. I was talking badly about Ferrari and the Italians who build them, not about Italians. You must be a lawyer by profession.  Yes, more stereotyping... 

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

hi my friend RC,

i am not a lawyer but a scientist. you need to be on top of it to win an argument against a mathematician. back to topic: forget the F12, it is the  front engined fezza version of the panamera, together with the FF. more sports car than the panamera yes, but no fun compared to the 458. peter

Very interesting. IMHO F12 drives amazing(yes, at drove one at lenght). Friend of mine who owns F12 ordered few days ago 458 Speciale as a replacement for MP4-12C.

To quote him:"Speciale is truly something special, ordinary 458 Italia feels sedated in comparison..."

BTW, F12 no fun in comparison to 458 Italia?? Did you drove F12?

KresoF1:

Very interesting. IMHO F12 drives amazing(yes, at drove one at lenght). Friend of mine who owns F12 ordered few days ago 458 Speciale as a replacement for MP4-12C.

To quote him:"Speciale is truly something special, ordinary 458 Italia feels sedated in comparison..."

BTW, F12 no fun in comparison to 458 Italia?? Did you drove F12?

i drove an F12 for 2K km. really fast but clearly front engined. faster than the 458 but heavy on turn in. i love mid engined cars and hate front engined ones. i don't care so much about raw speed but about the feeling in my bottom.

peter

Get a Donkervoort or an elise or a catherham then... All the other "supersport" cars mentionned above are just loaded with luxury items.

Or an Alfa 4C ;)  has a little bit more daily driving capabillity.

Suzy

 

SuzyF:

Or an Alfa 4C ;)  has a little bit more daily driving capabillity.

i have a 458. beats them all except maybe the GT3 and the 458S.  i am not into soccer mum turbo Ses, panameras etc. 

but to each his (her) own. 

Pete. We all love Ferrari but to say you hate front engined cars a bit strong - didnt you just trade in an M5? Why did you buy that car. Can have been the first front engined car you ever owned?

Anyway this Ferrari conversation is on a beat to nowhere on this Porsche GT3 board! I guess this is what happens when they delay delivery!

hi macca, i bought the m5 in one of my rational moments. didn't work out. dove it up the stelvio early morning and hated it. great on the autobahn fighting off panameras xxxxxxxx and audis yyyyyyyyyy. no good feeling left.

changeover:  F12 in dubai. impressed by its speed (mesmerizing), ran it up djebel hafeet five times.....great road, one of the best drives in the world...understeer, needed serious persuasion to turn in. case closed for me. cheers p