Crown

Hi Rc, is this only for RHD? 

- HS (Belgium)  -  '14 Porsche 991 GT3 (oct build) - '06 BMW 335I Coupe  

991 GT3:

Hi Rc, is this only for RHD? 

 

This is valid for German cars but I assume it affects GT3 deliveries worldwide.

Maybe RHD cars come in time, I cannot get details, just the typical rumor chatter.

So basically if someone orders a car now, there is no production date estimate.

Another possibility is of course that the GT3 demand has picked up too and people want one.

Your dealer is your "best friend" in this case: He should be able to tell you when the car is supposed to be exiting production.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

Thanks RC. I will check with my Swiss dealer in a week or two time and see what the update is. He seems adamant no detailed communication has been provided by PAG on this. Originally we were indicated a October production slot back in July. In late August this moved to November week 46. It will be interesting if that is moved by another few weeks or more. May affect my trip to Europe....

Porsche 991 GT3 RS road testing...

Porsche 991 GT3 RS road testing -- Gallery Link

RC:

I hope you are right. Just yesterday, I heard that the situation got even worse and that they do not provide production estimate dates anymore for newly ordered cars. Basically, the cars are delayed by more than four weeks, maybe you should check with your dealer again over the next couple of days, just to be sure.

I have called my dealer yesterday: no delay (not yet should I say...) for my order.
Delivery date: Nov. 5 (France).
I keep my fingers crossed...!

My dealer confirmed that indeed there is a 4 week delay with my GT3,  originally scheduled for the end of December, now for the end of January...

Porsche makes a big deal about top speed (195 mph) being achieved in 7th gear (which I applaud), but they never said speed in 6th gear is about the same (192 mph) - they could've made the gearing a little more aggressive (7th gear doesn't let the engine reach its peak hp at 8,250 on a flat road - only 8,100 rpm), but it's still a big improvement from last year's 6 speed gearing.

Maybe they compromised the gearing slightly, so they could share it with the RS (a little additional HP and top speed would be better with this gearing).

--

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

macca993:

Thanks RC. I will check with my Swiss dealer in a week or two time and see what the update is. He seems adamant no detailed communication has been provided by PAG on this. Originally we were indicated a October production slot back in July. In late August this moved to November week 46. It will be interesting if that is moved by another few weeks or more. May affect my trip to Europe....

mark

how did you order RHD  from a swiss dealer?

This deserves its own thread but I am unable to post a new thread. From CAR magazine Supercar Shootout.

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/991-gt3/780289-car-magazine-supercar-shootout.html

Wow! Very nice article. 

That last line makes me almost emotional  

"After 50 years of development, the new GT3 makes the 911 officially perfect"

Suzy

 

It is a magazine's opinion, but nevertheless for the GT3 to impress more than the F12 is the ultimate compliment. 

"Form follows function"

reginos:

It is a magazine's opinion, but nevertheless for the GT3 to impress more than the F12 is the ultimate compliment. 

Actually, the F12 is a totally different class of car (Grand Touring).  The appropriate Ferrari to compare to the GT3 is the 458 (and maybe the Speciale model).

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

absolutely true, they should have compared to the F458 (S). but they also factored in price. so then why didn't the baby AMG win? those tests are meaningless - i am saying this being totally convinced that the GT3 is an epic car.

peter

Grant:

reginos:

It is a magazine's opinion, but nevertheless for the GT3 to impress more than the F12 is the ultimate compliment. 

Actually, the F12 is a totally different class of car (Grand Touring).  The appropriate Ferrari to compare to the GT3 is the 458 (and maybe the Speciale model).

This type of report like the CAR magazine write up, transcends classes and segments.

They gathered a great variety of cars with obvious disparities, with the common denominator that they are of  the kind that drivers enjoy. They picked up a favourite in the opinion of the writers, after a real world road trip. Like a big test drive. I am sure that in this type of "test" the F12 impresses more than the 458. 

Nevertheless, you can never pigeonhole a Porsche 911. It covers all the bases.

"Form follows function"

reginos:

Grant:

reginos:

It is a magazine's opinion, but nevertheless for the GT3 to impress more than the F12 is the ultimate compliment. 

Actually, the F12 is a totally different class of car (Grand Touring).  The appropriate Ferrari to compare to the GT3 is the 458 (and maybe the Speciale model).

This type of report like the CAR magazine write up, transcends classes and segments.

They gathered a great variety of cars with obvious disparities, with the common denominator that they are of  the kind that drivers enjoy. They picked up a favourite in the opinion of the writers, after a real world road trip. Like a big test drive. I am sure that in this type of "test" the F12 impresses more than the 458. 

Nevertheless, you can never pigeonhole a Porsche 911. It covers all the bases.

have you driven an F12 and an F458? believe me, people who like GT3's don't like the F12 and vice versa, unless they are seduced by the F12's refinement. the F12 is a heavy car with a heavy front engine, more a GT than anything else. i can imagine that it gets compared to the turbo S but not to the GT3. pears and apples.

porsches do cover many bases and i like them for their basic values (this is why i appreciate the GT3 and find the turbo S rather useless...neither basic nor refined, just gross). but believe me (i had a few porsches in my life), they just cannot compete with ferraris in terms of the special feel...nowhere near. but then there is the price difference which puts things in order, except for the turbo S, which looks like an ugly power beetle but costs like a ferrari,

cheers, peter

moo:

absolutely true, they should have compared to the F458 (S). but they also factored in price. so then why didn't the baby AMG win? those tests are meaningless - i am saying this being totally convinced that the GT3 is an epic car.

peter

yes..and the funny thing: on average the ford or VW get better scores then the aventador..oh my god...

RC:

macca993:

This is what my European dealers enquirey into the Porsche system is saying for my RHD order. Note it was already pushed out from October production to November production months go when the factory were plying around with allocations. These are his words exactly-

Your GT3 shows a completion date week 46/2013 (mid November)

However there is a remark next to the completion week saying "delayed"

But from past experiences this is a delay of 1 week (max 10 days)

There is no OFFICIAL communication for any sort of delay.

I hope you are right. Just yesterday, I heard that the situation got even worse and that they do not provide production estimate dates anymore for newly ordered cars. Basically, the cars are delayed by more than four weeks, maybe you should check with your dealer again over the next couple of days, just to be sure.

Hi RC,

fair point..there is in another Porsche forum talk of an additional 3 month delay..at least one user mentioned that..but its probably a joke..

Oh, Im not nailing you on this one.....we know youre always well informed...

Finally I see the speed in gears!  Much shorter gears than in the 997 GT3!.

moo:

have you driven an F12 and an F458? believe me, people who like GT3's don't like the F12 and vice versa, unless they are seduced by the F12's refinement. the F12 is a heavy car with a heavy front engine, more a GT than anything else. i can imagine that it gets compared to the turbo S but not to the GT3. pears and apples.

porsches do cover many bases and i like them for their basic values (this is why i appreciate the GT3 and find the turbo S rather useless...neither basic nor refined, just gross). but believe me (i had a few porsches in my life), they just cannot compete with ferraris in terms of the special feel...nowhere near. but then there is the price difference which puts things in order, except for the turbo S, which looks like an ugly power beetle but costs like a ferrari,

cheers, peter

You're missing the point IMO. They were not trying to find the rivals of the GT3 in this article. Would be a bit strange with a Cayman, a Fiesta, a Taxi A45 AMG and so on... (Sorry... Never was and will be a fan of Merc  )

The were just looking to find the best performance car of the year. (In their opinion)  A Fiesta is a perfomance car in its own car catagory. The F12 is a new car and also a performance car. The GT3 also... The 458 is an older car, so it would be very strange to see that as a recently introduced car.

If hey were comparing rivals of the GT3, then they would have probably gotten a 458. And even then I think the GT3 would have had the preference of most of them, albeit close I guess. The 458 is not as refined, which is not a shame, because the car is already a few years on the market and doesn't have the benefit of the most modern technologies. On the other hand, that is what some people attracts to the car.

You're right about the special feel a Ferrari can give one, but that isn't different for a 911. It just attracts different people. A 911 feels more special to me than a 458. Other people think the other way around. That's a good thing, otherwise everyone was driving a Porsche

In the end I think it's always a personal preference and a matter of taste. The GT3 may be the best car in this comparison, that doesn't mean that it is the best choice for everyone.

--

Suzy

 

Leawood911:

Finally I see the speed in gears!  Much shorter gears than in the 997 GT3!.

 

Even shorter when you consider 9k rpm in 991 vs 8k5 in 997

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

SuzyF:

moo:

have you driven an F12 and an F458? believe me, people who like GT3's don't like the F12 and vice versa, unless they are seduced by the F12's refinement. the F12 is a heavy car with a heavy front engine, more a GT than anything else. i can imagine that it gets compared to the turbo S but not to the GT3. pears and apples.

porsches do cover many bases and i like them for their basic values (this is why i appreciate the GT3 and find the turbo S rather useless...neither basic nor refined, just gross). but believe me (i had a few porsches in my life), they just cannot compete with ferraris in terms of the special feel...nowhere near. but then there is the price difference which puts things in order, except for the turbo S, which looks like an ugly power beetle but costs like a ferrari,

cheers, peter

You're missing the point IMO. They were not trying to find the rivals of the GT3 in this article. Would be a bit strange with a Cayman, a Fiesta, a Taxi A45 AMG and so on... (Sorry... Never was and will be a fan of Merc  )

The were just looking to find the best performance car of the year. (In their opinion)  A Fiesta is a perfomance car in its own car catagory. The F12 is a new car and also a performance car. The GT3 also... The 458 is an older car, so it would be very strange to see that as a recently introduced car.

aha, so this is like comparing the best apples to the best pears. ......

can you please illuminate me with what modern technology the F458 does not have? the only thing that comes to my mind is four wheel steering but only two porsches so far have it. it seems nice but i doubt that it will be a must have on performance cars in the future. other than that?

If hey were comparing rivals of the GT3, then they would have probably gotten a 458. And even then I think the GT3 would have had the preference of most of them, albeit close I guess. The 458 is not as refined, which is not a shame, because the car is already a few years on the market and doesn't have the benefit of the most modern technologies. On the other hand, that is what some people attracts to the car.

have you driven a 458? not as refined as the GT3?????? sorry, but this is utter nonsense. the GT3 is much more raw, which defines exactly its appeal...closer to a race car. but in refinement it can't compete.

You're right about the special feel a Ferrari can give one, but that isn't different for a 911. It just attracts different people. A 911 feels more special to me than a 458. Other people think the other way around. That's a good thing, otherwise everyone was driving a Porsche

special is not a word that comes to my mind when i hear porsche. but to each his (her) own.

p

In the end I think it's always a personal preference and a matter of taste. The GT3 may be the best car in this comparison, that doesn't mean that it is the best choice for everyone.

--

Suzy

 

moo:

reginos:

Grant:

reginos:

It is a magazine's opinion, but nevertheless for the GT3 to impress more than the F12 is the ultimate compliment. 

Actually, the F12 is a totally different class of car (Grand Touring).  The appropriate Ferrari to compare to the GT3 is the 458 (and maybe the Speciale model).

This type of report like the CAR magazine write up, transcends classes and segments.

They gathered a great variety of cars with obvious disparities, with the common denominator that they are of  the kind that drivers enjoy. They picked up a favourite in the opinion of the writers, after a real world road trip. Like a big test drive. I am sure that in this type of "test" the F12 impresses more than the 458. 

Nevertheless, you can never pigeonhole a Porsche 911. It covers all the bases.

have you driven an F12 and an F458? believe me, people who like GT3's don't like the F12 and vice versa, unless they are seduced by the F12's refinement. the F12 is a heavy car with a heavy front engine, more a GT than anything else. i can imagine that it gets compared to the turbo S but not to the GT3. pears and apples.

porsches do cover many bases and i like them for their basic values (this is why i appreciate the GT3 and find the turbo S rather useless...neither basic nor refined, just gross). but believe me (i had a few porsches in my life), they just cannot compete with ferraris in terms of the special feel...nowhere near. but then there is the price difference which puts things in order, except for the turbo S, which looks like an ugly power beetle but costs like a ferrari,

cheers, peter

Hi Peter

apparently this is no scientific test of any sort, by definition, as a Fiesta and a F12 are included in the same group. 

it is a very subjective assessment of attributes and feel and the fact that a GT3 is "preferred" to a F12 or an Aventador is a compliment for the new Porsche and the people at Weissach. That's all! We shouldn't read more into it. On the basis of this a F12 owner might be convinced to add the GT3 to his garage but not to replace his Ferrari for one. Apples and pears like you say.

IMO the F12 is the more impressive experience compared to the 458. Nevertheless, two 458 rivals were included in the magazine test drive, the 12C (close rival) and the R8 (more removed rival) and the GT3 managed to deal with them.

"Form follows function"

just to reiterate, this and similar multi-car tests are totally useless. this does not take away anything from the GTR (let me recall to you that i am on the list for a GT3 RS) but it was just a few testers (with known attitudes) who like the GT3 driving experience a lot. fine with me, but an aventador or even an MP4-12C are in a totally different league. and so is the F12 - a car i do not like particularly due to its heavy front engine. another example for wrong engine placement, just as the 911 and ferrari needs a lot of workarounds to make the F12 turn in reasonably well. just as porsche needs workarounds to compensate for the 911 rear engine (which after 50 or so years of 911 they have obviously learned). also keep in mind that a few of those testers had the cayman S in the lead so how ridiculous can it get? well, if it is bucks per unit driving experience than the AMG should win, if it is on the total car-experience no matter what the price than its the aventador, MP4-12C or the F12. if it is race-car feeling and track day experiences with restricted DD usability (e.g. aquaplaning-prone tyres, no parking sensors, no rearview cam) than it is the GT3. those tests seem to me like comparing airplanes to speedboats to cars.....meaningless.

anyway, i repeat, the GT3 will be an epic car, it might even be the holy grail of testers - until the GT3 RS comes along - but if you have the money then there are other choices which give a more exhilarating and complete driving experience. horses for courses.

peter

This type of tests are like  extended test drives at your nearest dealer. You drive different cars, without any sort of objective measurement of acceleration or lap times and you form impressions about road behaviour, feel and pleasure. Nothing more but OTOH nothing less. They have their meaning too.

If I had the money I would have bought a GT3 (or RS) but also a F12 and a VW GTI Performance for my daily transport. But none of the rest from this grouping. Preferences

"Form follows function"

Peter. You purchased an F458 just a month or two ago after having your name on the list for a 991 GT3. Youre probably on the wrong board if you are trying to flying the Fezza flag. The group test was a COTY (i.e. must be a car released and delivered to public in 2013). The F458 S wont quite make it. Actually at this rate neither will the 991 GT3 LOL! F458 and GT3 really are two different buying decisions. No one with a GT3 is going to get hung up on rear paking sensor or cameras mate. Less is more for this model and we can all touch park...

macca993:

Peter. You purchased an F458 just a month or two ago after having your name on the list for a 991 GT3. Youre probably on the wrong board if you are trying to flying the Fezza flag. The group test was a COTY (i.e. must be a car released and delivered to public in 2013). The F458 S wont quite make it. Actually at this rate neither will the 991 GT3 LOL! F458 and GT3 really are two different buying decisions. No one with a GT3 is going to get hung up on rear paking sensor or cameras mate. Less is more for this model and we can all touch park...

actually, i am not at all flying the fezza flag. just trying to point out shortcomings of those tests. and yes, i am still a bit nostalgic about the GT3 list...that is why i went on the RS list with a deposit. and touch park....paris style.....nice---)))

btw, i do not agree on your comment that the GT3 991 and the F458 are very different buying decisions. maybe this was true with previous GT3s but i think not anymore. this is precisely what has caused the war in the GT3 community, no?

cheers, peter

moo:

macca993:

Peter. You purchased an F458 just a month or two ago after having your name on the list for a 991 GT3. Youre probably on the wrong board if you are trying to flying the Fezza flag. The group test was a COTY (i.e. must be a car released and delivered to public in 2013). The F458 S wont quite make it. Actually at this rate neither will the 991 GT3 LOL! F458 and GT3 really are two different buying decisions. No one with a GT3 is going to get hung up on rear paking sensor or cameras mate. Less is more for this model and we can all touch park...

...btw, i do not agree on your comment that the GT3 991 and the F458 are very different buying decisions. maybe this was true with previous GT3s but i think not anymore. this is precisely what has caused the war in the GT3 community, no?

cheers, peter

exactly :)..now the GT3 is in the same league as the 458 - only with paddlers. Before they were two different animals..now they are "cloned together"..if this will work - time will tell

Sorry Peter. I forgot again. F458 is twice the price in our market. I can just make a GT3 but never a F458 here regardless how I feel about them. If they are one the same now then I have the poor mans 458

In my humble opinion, the 991 GT3 is a bargain, especially compared to the 991 Carrera S and especially compared to a 458. Not sure however if the typical 458 driver would opt for a GT3 and vice versa.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

RC:

In my humble opinion, the 991 GT3 is a bargain, especially compared to the 991 Carrera S and especially compared to a 458. Not sure however if the typical 458 driver would opt for a GT3 and vice versa.

The GT3 is a two seater, "bewinged" with limited use tyres and  little ground clearance. These things make it less of a bargain, since it is a limited use car.

Most of the (repeat) Porsche owners I speak to, admire the front engined Ferraris especially the F12 and the 599 before it, but no one cares too much about the mid-engined series. Front mid-engined GTs IMO is a target for Porsche to address their efforts.

--

"Form follows function"