Crown

I have given up on the new GT3 and RS and following Chris Harris epic journalism on the 512tr, F40 and F50 I realise I need to go back in time to find the most rewarding experience. 

I've read a Ring time of 7:25 in the french edition of Sport Auto today. If true, then that's amazing!

Porsche 911 GT3 - Guards Red 997 MKII Clubsport

Gauss:

I've read a Ring time of 7:25 in the french edition of Sport Auto today. If true, then that's amazing!

Are you sure youre not mentioning the official factory time...? 7:25 would be better then aventador and Mclaren MP4-12..both with considerably more HP..thats why I would have problems believing it...unless that car had slicks or whatever..

@Kreso: this must be a lot more than "sensational"..just give us an indication whether this could be true or not..:)

You are most probably right. Sorry for the confusion. I forgot about the factory time and thought it was news

Porsche 911 GT3 - Guards Red 997 MKII Clubsport

We just need to wait for Sport Auto and their Supertest.

Speaking of GT3 sales figures: I heard that demand is high but some customers seem to hold back with their order because there were rumors of a manual option, which in my opinion is very very unlikely. Also some have delayed their car allocation by changing/adding options, like the front lift for example. 

Another problem seems to be that many GT3 owners want to sell their "old" cars first before ordering the new one. My very small Porsche dealership has three used GT3 in their used car portfolio now, guess why? 

I am sorry but I see some sort of a (negative) pattern here: Those (yes, you know who you are) who criticized the new GT3 from the beginnig are trying to find another excuse not to get one...or to make it look bad for whatever reasons. Just check this thread from the beginning and no matter if it is about manual or PCCB, there are always the same people trying to make the new GT3 look bad. We had (and still have that) regarding the 991 Turbo models too, so maybe these people just love to bash certain Porsche products just for the fun of it or they follow a certain agenda.

Not that I really care. 

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

Thanks for those comments RC.  The overall tone  is still far better here than elsewhere on the net.  The adult response is simply to move on when one decides "it isn't for me",  rather than to linger and bash. 

--

"Don't worry about avoiding temptation, as you grow older it will avoid you"  Churchill

Dear all,

Does someone know when the first 991 GT3 delivery will happen (in Europe or anywhere else)?

I am French and I am waiting for mine for the beginning of November (not earlier because of the "front lift" option...).
I thought that the first customers would get their car by the end of August...

throt:

Italo:

sfo:

throt:

Really, that' the first time I have heard that. So £8800 off price and an attractive finance rate, that's good. I see Audi are doing deals too own there R8...

 

I was stunned by the deal he got.

Got £10000 off a 991 cab order a few months ago from a dealer outside London. Local dealers tend not to give the best deals. All dealerships are struggling to make sales, in the case of Audi, I reckon it's due to the new s-tronic box hence r-tronics can be bought cheaper or presumably there is a new R8 round the corner.

I didn't realise there are deals to be had. What about in the GT3, not sure about that one ...

Dealers are desperate to shift as many cars as possible during the September/October period, the price of the car was £110687 hence a 10k discount. I don't think there will be any discounts on the GT3 but I reckon within the next 3-4 months you should be able to get a discount on the Turbo/TurboS.....how much do we reckon a well equipped TurboS cab will cost...Ouch, totally ridiculous, give me a low mileage 458 for the same money.....I reckon Porsche will learn the hard way 

sfo:

Italo:

Got £10000 off a 991 cab order a few months ago from a dealer outside London. Local dealers tend not to give the best deals. All dealerships are struggling to make sales, in the case of Audi, I reckon it's due to the new s-tronic box hence r-tronics can be bought cheaper or presumably there is a new R8 round the corner.

 

what was the % discount on the 991 Cab and the F Type .. not surprised F type discounts are now available after all the hype.

I have not seen a single on in London that is not plastered with "Your Turn Britain"

 

On The g-type it was about 3-4% discount,  the car was a physical car which should be at the dealer tomorrow morning. I'm not too much a fan of the f-type, I still have that notion about the Jaguar depreciation, worth nothing in 5 years, but I must say the finish is very good. The Porsche discount was 10%

Porsche 991 GT3 looking good in the wild...

Porsche 991 GT3 looking good in the wild -- Video link

RC:

We just need to wait for Sport Auto and their Supertest.

Speaking of GT3 sales figures: I heard that demand is high but some customers seem to hold back with their order because there were rumors of a manual option, which in my opinion is very very unlikely. Also some have delayed their car allocation by changing/adding options, like the front lift for example. 

Another problem seems to be that many GT3 owners want to sell their "old" cars first before ordering the new one. My very small Porsche dealership has three used GT3 in their used car portfolio now, guess why? 

I am sorry but I see some sort of a (negative) pattern here: Those (yes, you know who you are) who criticized the new GT3 from the beginnig are trying to find another excuse not to get one...or to make it look bad for whatever reasons. Just check this thread from the beginning and no matter if it is about manual or PCCB, there are always the same people trying to make the new GT3 look bad. We had (and still have that) regarding the 991 Turbo models too, so maybe these people just love to bash certain Porsche products just for the fun of it or they follow a certain agenda.

Not that I really care. 

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

Hi RC,

I agree to most of what you say..but:

1. I dont see any dealer on porsche de - used car locater - that has three 3.8 available...in the US less than 10 are availble..thats nothing.

2. For sure demand is good..no doubt with Pdk - = more potential customer..no surprise or?

3. In the US forum someone posted that manual sales are going up...and BMW reacted already..M5 etc. If this is true, then even you must admit that this is/would be a bad move from Porsche. Porsche has to deliver what is asked by the customer!

4. Criticism on the GT3 991: Im not convinced by it - for me it doesnt even deserve the name GT3 - why? I has no racing pedigree to justify tha name Gt3, no Cup car has e-steering, e-brake, RWS, 9A1 engine etc.

5. My criticism of point 4 does not at all apply to the 991 turbo - Porsche can do with the 991 turbo what they want..Im fine with that - but for me "GT3 MUST HAVE RACING BACKGROUND"..this one doesnt so thats why I will keep my old 997 GT3, GT2s and look for another more "racing" version, either CUP or monoplace. But I may be an extreme customer, I admit..street cars dont provide a thrill anymore..now I need something new.  Just the other I met somebody like this..we are like brothers..he sold his 458, GT3 etc and bought two racing cars..his daily driver is now a Cayenne diesel..and he is perfectly happy with his new choices..

Boxster Coupe GTS:

Porsche 991 GT3 looking good in the wild...

 

Porsche 991 GT3 looking good in the wild -- Video link

 

really looks cool, by far the best looking 911, after the C4S (don't like the latter's somewhat ridiculous rear spoiler when it opens up, the GT3 rear wing is at least serious). a bargain, particularly compared to the ridiculous turbo (S) price tag.

i agree with a previous posting, porsche will learn the hard way. but they will probably correct the pricing with the 991 RS model (unfortunately).

peter

GTlover:

RC:

We just need to wait for Sport Auto and their Supertest.

Speaking of GT3 sales figures: I heard that demand is high but some customers seem to hold back with their order because there were rumors of a manual option, which in my opinion is very very unlikely. Also some have delayed their car allocation by changing/adding options, like the front lift for example. 

Another problem seems to be that many GT3 owners want to sell their "old" cars first before ordering the new one. My very small Porsche dealership has three used GT3 in their used car portfolio now, guess why? 

I am sorry but I see some sort of a (negative) pattern here: Those (yes, you know who you are) who criticized the new GT3 from the beginnig are trying to find another excuse not to get one...or to make it look bad for whatever reasons. Just check this thread from the beginning and no matter if it is about manual or PCCB, there are always the same people trying to make the new GT3 look bad. We had (and still have that) regarding the 991 Turbo models too, so maybe these people just love to bash certain Porsche products just for the fun of it or they follow a certain agenda.

Not that I really care. 

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

Hi RC,

I agree to most of what you say..but:

1. I dont see any dealer on porsche de - used car locater - that has three 3.8 available...in the US less than 10 are availble..thats nothing.

2. For sure demand is good..no doubt with Pdk - = more potential customer..no surprise or?

3. In the US forum someone posted that manual sales are going up...and BMW reacted already..M5 etc. If this is true, then even you must admit that this is/would be a bad move from Porsche. Porsche has to deliver what is asked by the customer!

4. Criticism on the GT3 991: Im not convinced by it - for me it doesnt even deserve the name GT3 - why? I has no racing pedigree to justify tha name Gt3, no Cup car has e-steering, e-brake, RWS, 9A1 engine etc.

5. My criticism of point 4 does not at all apply to the 991 turbo - Porsche can do with the 991 turbo what they want..Im fine with that - but for me "GT3 MUST HAVE RACING BACKGROUND"..this one doesnt so thats why I will keep my old 997 GT3, GT2s and look for another more "racing" version, either CUP or monoplace. But I may be an extreme customer, I admit..street cars dont provide a thrill anymore..now I need something new.  Just the other I met somebody like this..we are like brothers..he sold his 458, GT3 etc and bought two racing cars..his daily driver is now a Cayenne diesel..and he is perfectly happy with his new choices..

the nordschleife and hockenheim lap times speak for quite a racing pedigree, don't they?  

in my view there are three desirable sports (super) cars to be had now: F458, MP4-12C and the GT3 (not taking exotics into account). and yes, i do believe the GT3 is in that league.

peter

moo:

GTlover:

RC:

We just need to wait for Sport Auto and their Supertest.

Speaking of GT3 sales figures: I heard that demand is high but some customers seem to hold back with their order because there were rumors of a manual option, which in my opinion is very very unlikely. Also some have delayed their car allocation by changing/adding options, like the front lift for example. 

Another problem seems to be that many GT3 owners want to sell their "old" cars first before ordering the new one. My very small Porsche dealership has three used GT3 in their used car portfolio now, guess why? 

I am sorry but I see some sort of a (negative) pattern here: Those (yes, you know who you are) who criticized the new GT3 from the beginnig are trying to find another excuse not to get one...or to make it look bad for whatever reasons. Just check this thread from the beginning and no matter if it is about manual or PCCB, there are always the same people trying to make the new GT3 look bad. We had (and still have that) regarding the 991 Turbo models too, so maybe these people just love to bash certain Porsche products just for the fun of it or they follow a certain agenda.

Not that I really care. 

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

Hi RC,

I agree to most of what you say..but:

1. I dont see any dealer on porsche de - used car locater - that has three 3.8 available...in the US less than 10 are availble..thats nothing.

2. For sure demand is good..no doubt with Pdk - = more potential customer..no surprise or?

3. In the US forum someone posted that manual sales are going up...and BMW reacted already..M5 etc. If this is true, then even you must admit that this is/would be a bad move from Porsche. Porsche has to deliver what is asked by the customer!

4. Criticism on the GT3 991: Im not convinced by it - for me it doesnt even deserve the name GT3 - why? I has no racing pedigree to justify tha name Gt3, no Cup car has e-steering, e-brake, RWS, 9A1 engine etc.

5. My criticism of point 4 does not at all apply to the 991 turbo - Porsche can do with the 991 turbo what they want..Im fine with that - but for me "GT3 MUST HAVE RACING BACKGROUND"..this one doesnt so thats why I will keep my old 997 GT3, GT2s and look for another more "racing" version, either CUP or monoplace. But I may be an extreme customer, I admit..street cars dont provide a thrill anymore..now I need something new.  Just the other I met somebody like this..we are like brothers..he sold his 458, GT3 etc and bought two racing cars..his daily driver is now a Cayenne diesel..and he is perfectly happy with his new choices..

the nordschleife and hockenheim lap times speak for quite a racing pedigree, don't they?  

in my view there are three desirable sports (super) cars to be had now: F458, MP4-12C and the GT3 (not taking exotics into account). and yes, i do believe the GT3 is in that league.

peter

A specially prepped car that sets a fast lap time for a lap or two or three is not the same as a racing pedigree of grueling miles on the track when the wheel is turned for anger.  A racing pedigree is established by being fast and, more importantly, reliable, and reliability is negatively correlated with system complexity. 

Few here have ever stated that the new 991 GT3 is not fast and will not set very impressive laps times.  The measure, that some of us apply, is the satisfaction of the driving experience, essentially, does the car deliver an endorphin rush?  For some here, the challenge is of greater satisfaction than achieving an ever faster lap time with myriad driver's aids.  

CGX car nut:

moo:

GTlover:

RC:

We just need to wait for Sport Auto and their Supertest.

Speaking of GT3 sales figures: I heard that demand is high but some customers seem to hold back with their order because there were rumors of a manual option, which in my opinion is very very unlikely. Also some have delayed their car allocation by changing/adding options, like the front lift for example. 

Another problem seems to be that many GT3 owners want to sell their "old" cars first before ordering the new one. My very small Porsche dealership has three used GT3 in their used car portfolio now, guess why? 

I am sorry but I see some sort of a (negative) pattern here: Those (yes, you know who you are) who criticized the new GT3 from the beginnig are trying to find another excuse not to get one...or to make it look bad for whatever reasons. Just check this thread from the beginning and no matter if it is about manual or PCCB, there are always the same people trying to make the new GT3 look bad. We had (and still have that) regarding the 991 Turbo models too, so maybe these people just love to bash certain Porsche products just for the fun of it or they follow a certain agenda.

Not that I really care. 

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

Hi RC,

I agree to most of what you say..but:

1. I dont see any dealer on porsche de - used car locater - that has three 3.8 available...in the US less than 10 are availble..thats nothing.

2. For sure demand is good..no doubt with Pdk - = more potential customer..no surprise or?

3. In the US forum someone posted that manual sales are going up...and BMW reacted already..M5 etc. If this is true, then even you must admit that this is/would be a bad move from Porsche. Porsche has to deliver what is asked by the customer!

4. Criticism on the GT3 991: Im not convinced by it - for me it doesnt even deserve the name GT3 - why? I has no racing pedigree to justify tha name Gt3, no Cup car has e-steering, e-brake, RWS, 9A1 engine etc.

5. My criticism of point 4 does not at all apply to the 991 turbo - Porsche can do with the 991 turbo what they want..Im fine with that - but for me "GT3 MUST HAVE RACING BACKGROUND"..this one doesnt so thats why I will keep my old 997 GT3, GT2s and look for another more "racing" version, either CUP or monoplace. But I may be an extreme customer, I admit..street cars dont provide a thrill anymore..now I need something new.  Just the other I met somebody like this..we are like brothers..he sold his 458, GT3 etc and bought two racing cars..his daily driver is now a Cayenne diesel..and he is perfectly happy with his new choices..

the nordschleife and hockenheim lap times speak for quite a racing pedigree, don't they?  

in my view there are three desirable sports (super) cars to be had now: F458, MP4-12C and the GT3 (not taking exotics into account). and yes, i do believe the GT3 is in that league.

peter

A specially prepped car that sets a fast lap time for a lap or two or three is not the same as a racing pedigree of grueling miles on the track when the wheel is turned for anger.  A racing pedigree is established by being fast and, more importantly, reliable, and reliability is negatively correlated with system complexity. 

Few here have ever stated that the new 991 GT3 is not fast and will not set very impressive laps times.  The measure, that some of us apply, is the satisfaction of the driving experience, essentially, does the car deliver an endorphin rush?  For some here, the challenge is of greater satisfaction than achieving an ever faster lap time with myriad driver's aids.  

please make me understand: why won't the 991 GT3 deliver endorphine rushes and driver satisfaction? because of the lack of the third pedal?

well, it won't get close to the F40/F50 experience but things have changed meanwhile. is it good or bad? depends or your point of view.

GT3's have always been road cars though..

peter

moo:

GTlover:

RC:

We just need to wait for Sport Auto and their Supertest.

Speaking of GT3 sales figures: I heard that demand is high but some customers seem to hold back with their order because there were rumors of a manual option, which in my opinion is very very unlikely. Also some have delayed their car allocation by changing/adding options, like the front lift for example. 

Another problem seems to be that many GT3 owners want to sell their "old" cars first before ordering the new one. My very small Porsche dealership has three used GT3 in their used car portfolio now, guess why? 

I am sorry but I see some sort of a (negative) pattern here: Those (yes, you know who you are) who criticized the new GT3 from the beginnig are trying to find another excuse not to get one...or to make it look bad for whatever reasons. Just check this thread from the beginning and no matter if it is about manual or PCCB, there are always the same people trying to make the new GT3 look bad. We had (and still have that) regarding the 991 Turbo models too, so maybe these people just love to bash certain Porsche products just for the fun of it or they follow a certain agenda.

Not that I really care. 

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

Hi RC,

I agree to most of what you say..but:

1. I dont see any dealer on porsche de - used car locater - that has three 3.8 available...in the US less than 10 are availble..thats nothing.

2. For sure demand is good..no doubt with Pdk - = more potential customer..no surprise or?

3. In the US forum someone posted that manual sales are going up...and BMW reacted already..M5 etc. If this is true, then even you must admit that this is/would be a bad move from Porsche. Porsche has to deliver what is asked by the customer!

4. Criticism on the GT3 991: Im not convinced by it - for me it doesnt even deserve the name GT3 - why? I has no racing pedigree to justify tha name Gt3, no Cup car has e-steering, e-brake, RWS, 9A1 engine etc.

5. My criticism of point 4 does not at all apply to the 991 turbo - Porsche can do with the 991 turbo what they want..Im fine with that - but for me "GT3 MUST HAVE RACING BACKGROUND"..this one doesnt so thats why I will keep my old 997 GT3, GT2s and look for another more "racing" version, either CUP or monoplace. But I may be an extreme customer, I admit..street cars dont provide a thrill anymore..now I need something new.  Just the other I met somebody like this..we are like brothers..he sold his 458, GT3 etc and bought two racing cars..his daily driver is now a Cayenne diesel..and he is perfectly happy with his new choices..

the nordschleife and hockenheim lap times speak for quite a racing pedigree, don't they?  

in my view there are three desirable sports (super) cars to be had now: F458, MP4-12C and the GT3 (not taking exotics into account). and yes, i do believe the GT3 is in that league.

peter

Hi Peter,

Agree to your last sentence..the 991 GT3 is now among the cars to have - from the new ones..although Im still also a fan of Lamborghini - but have never owned one.

However, lap times - the Nissan GTR is also fast - so does it have a racing pedigree? Simple answer : no. The GT3 has been with the 996 and 997 a direct descendant of the CUP car..in fact many parts could be switched - upgraded. Talk to someone knowledgable at Porsche and you will realize that the 991 GT3 shares nothing with a CUP CAR..if the new GT3 engine shows up in 2014 CUP-RSR..then my argument was only valid (with regard to the engine) temporarily.

I agree however that the 991 GT3 is  a bargain - even it will only be 5 seconds faster on the ring then the 991 S - why? because the price difference to the 991S is almost none..and for this little more you get a completely redone 911. I dont know what Porsche is thinking of their price strategy..the 991 GT3 is a bargain..while the 991S is completely overpriced. Here I agree with you again..they will probably have to learn it the hard way....Im always wondering where these 991s are...in Germany they are rare..so are they when I travel to other countries...have spent weeks in Moscow..saw one 991 and 4 x 997...but hundreds of cayenne, panamera. This is my fear anyway...the 911 will beconme even less important at Porsche ..with the Macan coming up..Porsche could even stop the 911 and still live perfectly without anybody noticing anything (OK..some irony here)..except us here...

moo:

CGX car nut:

moo:

GTlover:

RC:

We just need to wait for Sport Auto and their Supertest.

Speaking of GT3 sales figures: I heard that demand is high but some customers seem to hold back with their order because there were rumors of a manual option, which in my opinion is very very unlikely. Also some have delayed their car allocation by changing/adding options, like the front lift for example. 

Another problem seems to be that many GT3 owners want to sell their "old" cars first before ordering the new one. My very small Porsche dealership has three used GT3 in their used car portfolio now, guess why? 

I am sorry but I see some sort of a (negative) pattern here: Those (yes, you know who you are) who criticized the new GT3 from the beginnig are trying to find another excuse not to get one...or to make it look bad for whatever reasons. Just check this thread from the beginning and no matter if it is about manual or PCCB, there are always the same people trying to make the new GT3 look bad. We had (and still have that) regarding the 991 Turbo models too, so maybe these people just love to bash certain Porsche products just for the fun of it or they follow a certain agenda.

Not that I really care. 

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

Hi RC,

I agree to most of what you say..but:

1. I dont see any dealer on porsche de - used car locater - that has three 3.8 available...in the US less than 10 are availble..thats nothing.

2. For sure demand is good..no doubt with Pdk - = more potential customer..no surprise or?

3. In the US forum someone posted that manual sales are going up...and BMW reacted already..M5 etc. If this is true, then even you must admit that this is/would be a bad move from Porsche. Porsche has to deliver what is asked by the customer!

4. Criticism on the GT3 991: Im not convinced by it - for me it doesnt even deserve the name GT3 - why? I has no racing pedigree to justify tha name Gt3, no Cup car has e-steering, e-brake, RWS, 9A1 engine etc.

5. My criticism of point 4 does not at all apply to the 991 turbo - Porsche can do with the 991 turbo what they want..Im fine with that - but for me "GT3 MUST HAVE RACING BACKGROUND"..this one doesnt so thats why I will keep my old 997 GT3, GT2s and look for another more "racing" version, either CUP or monoplace. But I may be an extreme customer, I admit..street cars dont provide a thrill anymore..now I need something new.  Just the other I met somebody like this..we are like brothers..he sold his 458, GT3 etc and bought two racing cars..his daily driver is now a Cayenne diesel..and he is perfectly happy with his new choices..

the nordschleife and hockenheim lap times speak for quite a racing pedigree, don't they?  

in my view there are three desirable sports (super) cars to be had now: F458, MP4-12C and the GT3 (not taking exotics into account). and yes, i do believe the GT3 is in that league.

peter

A specially prepped car that sets a fast lap time for a lap or two or three is not the same as a racing pedigree of grueling miles on the track when the wheel is turned for anger.  A racing pedigree is established by being fast and, more importantly, reliable, and reliability is negatively correlated with system complexity. 

Few here have ever stated that the new 991 GT3 is not fast and will not set very impressive laps times.  The measure, that some of us apply, is the satisfaction of the driving experience, essentially, does the car deliver an endorphin rush?  For some here, the challenge is of greater satisfaction than achieving an ever faster lap time with myriad driver's aids.  

please make me understand: why won't the 991 GT3 deliver endorphine rushes and driver satisfaction? because of the lack of the third pedal?

well, it won't get close to the F40/F50 experience but things have changed meanwhile. is it good or bad? depends or your point of view.

GT3's have always been road cars though..

peter

 If I may answer also..the loss of a third padel is not the whole point..its a puzzle piece but not all. I mentioned before that I might be interested in a CUP or monoplace..these things also mostly have sequantial or paddle shift. I dont mind  at all. But such a car offers more direct feeling in other domains..in fact I believe every car nut should drive once in his life a CUP car, an F40 etc...then we would be able to make our judgements better.

Of course things have changed..I know that..but we are all sometimes like little children...when we see an F40, a Gt2RS, C-GT..our heart beats faster..we want to have that..even if these cars have limited usability. When we (or at least I) see a Bentley Continental..whats going on in our brain? For me..."so what...just another fat useless luxury cruiser"..

I cant be that wrong..prices for these raw supercars are going up..and I dont see the trend reversing. Rather the opposite, the more we get "falsified driving impressions by all kind of gizmos"..the more people will want to know how it really felt in those days.A C-GT is on my list..you can be sure of that .

moo:

CGX car nut:

moo:

GTlover:

RC:

We just need to wait for Sport Auto and their Supertest.

Speaking of GT3 sales figures: I heard that demand is high but some customers seem to hold back with their order because there were rumors of a manual option, which in my opinion is very very unlikely. Also some have delayed their car allocation by changing/adding options, like the front lift for example. 

Another problem seems to be that many GT3 owners want to sell their "old" cars first before ordering the new one. My very small Porsche dealership has three used GT3 in their used car portfolio now, guess why? 

I am sorry but I see some sort of a (negative) pattern here: Those (yes, you know who you are) who criticized the new GT3 from the beginnig are trying to find another excuse not to get one...or to make it look bad for whatever reasons. Just check this thread from the beginning and no matter if it is about manual or PCCB, there are always the same people trying to make the new GT3 look bad. We had (and still have that) regarding the 991 Turbo models too, so maybe these people just love to bash certain Porsche products just for the fun of it or they follow a certain agenda.

Not that I really care. 

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

Hi RC,

I agree to most of what you say..but:

1. I dont see any dealer on porsche de - used car locater - that has three 3.8 available...in the US less than 10 are availble..thats nothing.

2. For sure demand is good..no doubt with Pdk - = more potential customer..no surprise or?

3. In the US forum someone posted that manual sales are going up...and BMW reacted already..M5 etc. If this is true, then even you must admit that this is/would be a bad move from Porsche. Porsche has to deliver what is asked by the customer!

4. Criticism on the GT3 991: Im not convinced by it - for me it doesnt even deserve the name GT3 - why? I has no racing pedigree to justify tha name Gt3, no Cup car has e-steering, e-brake, RWS, 9A1 engine etc.

5. My criticism of point 4 does not at all apply to the 991 turbo - Porsche can do with the 991 turbo what they want..Im fine with that - but for me "GT3 MUST HAVE RACING BACKGROUND"..this one doesnt so thats why I will keep my old 997 GT3, GT2s and look for another more "racing" version, either CUP or monoplace. But I may be an extreme customer, I admit..street cars dont provide a thrill anymore..now I need something new.  Just the other I met somebody like this..we are like brothers..he sold his 458, GT3 etc and bought two racing cars..his daily driver is now a Cayenne diesel..and he is perfectly happy with his new choices..

the nordschleife and hockenheim lap times speak for quite a racing pedigree, don't they?  

in my view there are three desirable sports (super) cars to be had now: F458, MP4-12C and the GT3 (not taking exotics into account). and yes, i do believe the GT3 is in that league.

peter

A specially prepped car that sets a fast lap time for a lap or two or three is not the same as a racing pedigree of grueling miles on the track when the wheel is turned for anger.  A racing pedigree is established by being fast and, more importantly, reliable, and reliability is negatively correlated with system complexity. 

Few here have ever stated that the new 991 GT3 is not fast and will not set very impressive laps times.  The measure, that some of us apply, is the satisfaction of the driving experience, essentially, does the car deliver an endorphin rush?  For some here, the challenge is of greater satisfaction than achieving an ever faster lap time with myriad driver's aids.  

please make me understand: why won't the 991 GT3 deliver endorphine rushes and driver satisfaction? because of the lack of the third pedal?

well, it won't get close to the F40/F50 experience but things have changed meanwhile. is it good or bad? depends or your point of view.

GT3's have always been road cars though..

peter

Maximizing performance doesn't always instill the fires of passion...

There's still a very viable mechanical watch industry in Switzerland, and in Germany-the A. Lange & Sohne watches are incredible, yet these mechanical dinosaurs still very much in demand.  A low-cost digital watch, or even a smartphone delivers greater functional performance than these finely crafted machines yet we are willing to spend tens of thousands, and sometimes hundreds of thousands to acquire these antiquated devices because of the intangible qualities associated with them from the tick-tock sounds to the movement of the second hand.  

Sports cars should deliver an onrush of emotion and feel, and they are simply becoming too complex and too refined to deliver much of anything beyond a mildly less cosseting ride than the purest of luxury cars.  I've owned a few vintage sports cars including a a couple of pre-war MGs and Alfas.  Drive one and you'll begin to understand what I mean.  There''s nothing there beyond an old deathtrap, yet at less than the legal urban speeds the car is alive, and in need of much skill to safely navigate the poor road surfaces of the Chicago streets.  You exit your drive with your emotional batteries fully charged and possessing the feeling of a real accomplishment.  Yet, I could travel the same roads in a Ford Fiesta, at a faster pace and in supreme comfort and safety, but with emotional detachment.  This is no different than the feeling I receive from driving my TT.  It is devastatingly competent but that perfection creates boredom.

All speculation as we can find on other boards the debate rages on and gets boring.

Just a reminder that NO ONE HERE HAS DRIVEN THE NEW GT3 yet! Yes lost of experts but no one who has actually driven the car.

As for the mortorsport connection, you will find that will be addressed with time.

My PAG contact was on summer holiday so only just responded to me by text. Short answer, no change in production slots 2013/2012 Q1+2. No additional volume. Factory still struggling to manage demand with Q3/4 allocations still being decided. Possible capacity options may open up by Q2/3 2014.

Thanks for the link to the Silver GT3. As AP says "looks very precise in Rodium Silber"! This board has delivered alot of good information for prospective owners so I do hope that continues. It would be nice that the same folk from Rennlist can maybe lighten up a bit on the endless gesticulation about old vs new for a while....

CGX car nut:

A specially prepped car that sets a fast lap time for a lap or two or three is not the same as a racing pedigree of grueling miles on the track when the wheel is turned for anger.  A racing pedigree is established by being fast and, more importantly, reliable, and reliability is negatively correlated with system complexity. 

Few here have ever stated that the new 991 GT3 is not fast and will not set very impressive laps times.  The measure, that some of us apply, is the satisfaction of the driving experience, essentially, does the car deliver an endorphin rush?  For some here, the challenge is of greater satisfaction than achieving an ever faster lap time with myriad driver's aids.

So you want a 'racing pedigree'.  The new cups and rsrs are using the old engine but there's been a lot of talk of the 9a1 dfi being developed for both of these vehicles.  The new cups and rsrs are using the 991 chassis already, so assuming they get the new motor in 2015, then the gt3 will have a retroactive racing pedigree.

But one has to ask, why?  To brag about to your friends?  To ensure resale?  Based on the reviews so far, the engine in the new 3 is brilliant, and these comments come from those would quickly point out its demerits if it wasn't up to snuff (Stout and Harris)

What makes you think the GT3 will not provide the hormonal rush you require?

----------------------------------------

I have a 964 Turbo 3.6, and have had both prior GT3s.  I also own a bunch of vinyl records that are great, but I also have an ipod with eleventy billion fantastic songs downloaded from spotify.  While I love vinyl, its interface for day to day use is terrible.  So my ipod gets a lot more exercise.

I gave up purity in sound for convenience, usability, variety.

My 3.6 sits idle in my garage most of the time, b/c it's daily usability is terrible.  Steering, brakes, shifting, and air conditioning.  It's a riot when you are in the mood to dust it off, but with busy lifestyles it just doesn't get the love it should.  Just like my vinyl collection.

Surely the new GT3 I have coming in Q1 is more like an ipod than it is a record player, but in the real world, for me, it's the right choice.  I have cycled through a lot of cars in the last 10 years.  Certain ones had no staying power b/c they simply were terrible for any kind of daily use (like my 996 GT3).  I believe the new GT3 will be an epic daily usable supercar.

991 GT3 incoming, 964 Turbo 3.6, E36 M3 ltw S54 conversion, bunch of other stuff

Nice you couldnt have said it better. Something old and something new. Frankly cant see what the fuss is about with some of these folk. keep your old 997 GT3 and buy the new one for everyday useability etc. Better still buy a 993 or 964 MT for weekend fun and the GT3 for fast track/road and even DD. I think there is a different mindset to many who take issue here as they are always buying the latest and greatest model and are unhappy about the changes. Fine, Porsche just did you a favour save your money in your pocket now and keep your current car as it may be the best they ever make etc....

frayed:

CGX car nut:

A specially prepped car that sets a fast lap time for a lap or two or three is not the same as a racing pedigree of grueling miles on the track when the wheel is turned for anger.  A racing pedigree is established by being fast and, more importantly, reliable, and reliability is negatively correlated with system complexity. 

Few here have ever stated that the new 991 GT3 is not fast and will not set very impressive laps times.  The measure, that some of us apply, is the satisfaction of the driving experience, essentially, does the car deliver an endorphin rush?  For some here, the challenge is of greater satisfaction than achieving an ever faster lap time with myriad driver's aids.

 

So you want a 'racing pedigree'.  The new cups and rsrs are using the old engine but there's been a lot of talk of the 9a1 dfi being developed for both of these vehicles.  The new cups and rsrs are using the 991 chassis already, so assuming they get the new motor in 2015, then the gt3 will have a retroactive racing pedigree.

But one has to ask, why?  To brag about to your friends?  To ensure resale?  Based on the reviews so far, the engine in the new 3 is brilliant, and these comments come from those would quickly point out its demerits if it wasn't up to snuff (Stout and Harris)

What makes you think the GT3 will not provide the hormonal rush you require?

----------------------------------------

I have a 964 Turbo 3.6, and have had both prior GT3s.  I also own a bunch of vinyl records that are great, but I also have an ipod with eleventy billion fantastic songs downloaded from spotify.  While I love vinyl, its interface for day to day use is terrible.  So my ipod gets a lot more exercise.

I gave up purity in sound for convenience, usability, variety.

My 3.6 sits idle in my garage most of the time, b/c it's daily usability is terrible.  Steering, brakes, shifting, and air conditioning.  It's a riot when you are in the mood to dust it off, but with busy lifestyles it just doesn't get the love it should.  Just like my vinyl collection.

Surely the new GT3 I have coming in Q1 is more like an ipod than it is a record player, but in the real world, for me, it's the right choice.  I have cycled through a lot of cars in the last 10 years.  Certain ones had no staying power b/c they simply were terrible for any kind of daily use (like my 996 GT3).  I believe the new GT3 will be an epic daily usable supercar.

 

 

 

 

Well said Frayed,

This is exactly how I feel. 

- HS (Belgium)  -  '14 Porsche 991 GT3 (oct build) - '06 BMW 335I Coupe  

frayed:

CGX car nut:

A specially prepped car that sets a fast lap time for a lap or two or three is not the same as a racing pedigree of grueling miles on the track when the wheel is turned for anger.  A racing pedigree is established by being fast and, more importantly, reliable, and reliability is negatively correlated with system complexity. 

Few here have ever stated that the new 991 GT3 is not fast and will not set very impressive laps times.  The measure, that some of us apply, is the satisfaction of the driving experience, essentially, does the car deliver an endorphin rush?  For some here, the challenge is of greater satisfaction than achieving an ever faster lap time with myriad driver's aids.

 

  I believe the new GT3 will be an epic daily usable supercar.

 

 

 

 

This is what I am betting on, hard ride but still good for a daily blast with a bit of comfort coupled with stupendous refinement. Really hope the 991 GT3 will have a solid, squeaky, rattle free interior.

throt

"I didn't do it"

I am trying to address a couple of things in the previous posts:

1. Only a small percentage of the used cars in my dealer's used car lot appear on the used car search from Porsche. None of the used GT3 appear in the Porsche search but they appear on the dealer's website. Go figure... Same happens with other Porsche dealers in Germany, don't have a clue why.

2. I heard so much crap about the new Turbo S and after experiencing the car live, everything was clearly...crap. Wonderful car. If I apply the same logic to the GT3 and considering all the DRIVING reports I got from people (friends, sources, etc.) driving the car, I cannot take much of the criticism seriously anymore.

3. I agree: People who do not seem to like the GT3 or people who do not wish to get one, should move on and stop bashing it. We got it: No manual, no exotic look, slow sales, bla bla bla. Thanks and good-bye. Adult people move on as somebody already said in a previous post.

4. Speaking of rebates: My dealer offered a rebate for the GT3 and for the Turbo S. The GT3 rebate was half of the Turbo S. Both rebates were OK but not very good, simply because I wanted the first car(s). For a delivery next year, the rebates would have been much better BUT still under the usual 991 Carrera rebate. I do not think that rebates are any precise indication if a car sells well or not but if so, the GT3 seems to have currently the smallest rebate at German dealers. Even lower than for the Cayenne Diesel models.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

RC:

4. Speaking of rebates: My dealer offered a rebate for the GT3 and for the Turbo S. The GT3 rebate was half of the Turbo S. Both rebates were OK but not very good, simply because I wanted the first car(s). For a delivery next year, the rebates would have been much better BUT still under the usual 991 Carrera rebate. I do not think that rebates are any precise indication if a car sells well or not but if so, the GT3 seems to have currently the smallest rebate at German dealers. Even lower than for the Cayenne Diesel models.

do you mean discounts? if so, no one in UK has even dared to ask for one ...

In the US, ask a dealer for a discount on a 991GT3 and you would laughed off the premises.

nberry:

In the US, ask a dealer for a discount on a 991GT3 and you would laughed off the premises.

In the UK you'd be thrown off the premises....!

sidicks:

nberry:

In the US, ask a dealer for a discount on a 991GT3 and you would laughed off the premises.

In the UK you'd be thrown off the premises....!

austria: gt3 5-6%, turbo 7-10% depending on negotiation skills

frayed:

CGX car nut:

A specially prepped car that sets a fast lap time for a lap or two or three is not the same as a racing pedigree of grueling miles on the track when the wheel is turned for anger.  A racing pedigree is established by being fast and, more importantly, reliable, and reliability is negatively correlated with system complexity. 

Few here have ever stated that the new 991 GT3 is not fast and will not set very impressive laps times.  The measure, that some of us apply, is the satisfaction of the driving experience, essentially, does the car deliver an endorphin rush?  For some here, the challenge is of greater satisfaction than achieving an ever faster lap time with myriad driver's aids.

 

So you want a 'racing pedigree'.  The new cups and rsrs are using the old engine but there's been a lot of talk of the 9a1 dfi being developed for both of these vehicles.  The new cups and rsrs are using the 991 chassis already, so assuming they get the new motor in 2015, then the gt3 will have a retroactive racing pedigree.

But one has to ask, why?  To brag about to your friends?  To ensure resale?  Based on the reviews so far, the engine in the new 3 is brilliant, and these comments come from those would quickly point out its demerits if it wasn't up to snuff (Stout and Harris)

What makes you think the GT3 will not provide the hormonal rush you require?

Racing Pedigree: Once Porsche subscribed to the ethos of "racing improves the breed" now, it seems, Porsche has switched over to marketing improves the breed starting with the Wiedeking era.  The new GT3 engine, I'm sure is tremendous, until some thing breaks.

I recall a certain 996 with that legendary M96 motor I had purchased when it was first released, that lead to the "Lost Year."  During the Lost Year, the first engine was replaced because of engine block porosity issue that lead to the fracturing of the MMC liner.  The second engine succumbed to the IMS problem.  This then lead to problems with the transmission.

Porsche regained my confidence with the 997.2 GT3, which so far is virtually bulletproof. The 997.2 TT too is a paragon of reliability.  So, with good reason, I remain skeptical that Porsche can effectively introduce technological change on several dimensions ranging from engine, rear-wheel steering and PDK-S.