Crown

Boxster Coupe GTS:

Hey RC -- interesting to see Manthey Racing run a 4.4-litre flat-six at the VLN 6-hour in the Porsche 911 GT3 RSR...

Manthey Racing: "Two-time class victory at the VLN..."

 

(26 August 2013)

 

Wochenspiegel driver trio finished second in championship 

 

Meuspath - Two class wins and another class podium are the successful yield Manthey-Racing-6h at this year's race, which is traditionally considered VLN season highlight! In changeable weather in the Eifel newly developed 4.4-liter engine also celebrated a successful first strike in the rear of the yellow-green RSR from Meuspath.

 

After just one month break over 200 vehicles went in the fifth round of the VLN Endurance Championship at the start in which Manthey Racing the known Porsche 911 GT3 RSR had called in traditional yellow green livery in the SP8 class for the first time. Two reasons prompted Olaf Manthey to "rise" to the new category. "After the crew of the week is to mirror Porsche so promising position in the championship standings, we want the guys in no way take away points," said Manthey.

 

The second motivation was the premiere of the brand new and increased to 4.4-liter displacement six-cylinder boxer was his baptism of fire with flying colors in the longest VLN race of the season. "For many years we offer performance improvements for street-legal GT3 and the racing appropriate derivatives. This engine is now based on the 4.2 liter engine developed by us for the 997 GT3 and now has a displacement of 4.4 liters. We are now planning a bit of fine tuning for the aggregate and also plan for the remaining VLN races with this engine to go to the start, "the team leader held with a view to the in-house development project.

 

From the start, drove regular driver Jochen Krumbach and the two Porsche works drivers Joerg Bergmeister and the GT3 RSR Nick Tandy forward and were around long on podium. Drop below the minimum level prescribed time during a pit stop of five hundredths was greeted by the race with a hefty stop-and-go penalty, so you missed the end with only 20 seconds behind the jump to's podium. "Although, of course, a third place overall would have been nicer - with two class wins and another podium finish in the Cup2 in the bag, we return back to Meuspath satisfied," Manthey summarized the results of Saturday together.

 

Georg Weiss, Michael Jacobs and Jochen Krumbach Oliver Kainz already laid the foundation for training in the now fifth podium finish in the SP7 class in fifth VLN race! Starting driver Kainz presented with great pace and his rider could burn anything. Constantly to be found in the top 10, the mirror-week penalty after 37 rounds crossed the finish line as the seventh overall, continuing his winning streak continues. "We are very pleased to be in this strong and dominated by top pilots get involved competitive environment," Kainz beamed furious after his first stint. "It has shown once again how important a good placement in training!" Co Krumbach was happy as a double starter over two class wins in a race: "When came after more than three hours, the expected rain and the tires Poker began, we were right place at the car of George. "By changing class of" thick "the championship chances assisted by Manthey Racing Porsche Wochenspiegel have further improved. By far three class wins and two second places have Kainz, White and Jacobs halfway through the season very good chance at the title in Europe's most popular endurance racing series.

 

At a great fourteenth overall Frank Kräling, Marc Gindorf, Peter Scharmach and Marco Schelp drove the orange white and single cup penalty under Mantheyscher named and made with second place in the Cup 2 class third class podium success for Manthey Racing at half race of the VLN perfect ! The fourteenth place overall is even more remarkable because the 911 GT3 Cup was displaced by yellow crime in qualifying ten places back and the quartet was forced to go from 37 start on the grid. "I am totally happy - this is my first finish this year," said Schelp was happy. "This is now hopefully so on!"

 

From a promising start thirteenth place the Pinta Porsche went into the race. But for Michael Illbruck and Robert Renauer - first supported the 6h race by Marco Seefried - it was a rather streaky race weekend. Already in qualifying the Porsche 911 GT3 R rear right badly damaged in a collision on the suspension and the body. However, the Manthey mechanic repaired the car in record time so that the Pinta Porsche it still make it in time to the starting grid. In the first race then stopped a puncture at the end of the first stint of the advance towards Elfers Top 10 An almost complete Nordschleife lap with speed 50 km / h cost countless placements before the GT3 R was able to resume the chase through the Green Hell again after repair. Placement to placement, the trio battled back again as Seefried crashed after the so-called "Eiskurve". "I can not tell anyone how much I resent my fault," held a deeply troubled driver. "I've had a white vest and had always the great goal once to be driving a Porsche Manthey prepared - and then this happened to me! I really hope I get another chance. "

 

The sixth round of the VLN Endurance Championship starts on 14 September. The 36th RCM DMV Grenzlandrennen leads again on the usual distance of four hours. 

 

Racing Cars

 

NR. PILOTS VEHICLE CLASS

12 Klohs, Judge 911 GT3 R SP9

39 Schelp, brother in law 911 GT3 Cup SP9

40 Pinta, Renauer, nn 911 GT3 R SP9

59 White, Jacobs, Kainz 911 GT3 RSR SP7

60 Krumbach, nn 911 GT3 RSR SP7

145 Krumbach, nn 911 GT3 RSR SP8

95 Kräling, Gindorf, nn 911 GT3 Cup Cup2

96 Kohler, Menzel, nn 911 GT3 Cup Cup2

 

Event Calendar

 

14.09.2013 - 36th RCM DMV Grenzlandrennen

28.09.2013 - 45th ADAC Barbarossa Cup

12.10.2013 - ROWE DMV 250-mile race

26.10.2013 - 38th DMV Münsterlandpokal 

 

Porsche 911 GT3 RSR 4.4-litre Manthey Racing -- Article Link

 

 

thanks boxster coupe GTS,

Well, thats really an interesting info. I knew about some specualtion that Manthey would develop a new and enhanced 4.4L engine...but didnt really take it serious..because I thought that if they would develop something new, they would do it with the 991 GT3 engine..but this now really leaves a strange taste...after all Mathey is the official Porsche partner..and I cant imagine that they would develop on the one hand side a 4.4 based on the old engine..while at the same time developping with Porsche a new DFI racing engine. Porsche is leaving us an engine chaos.....can someone tell us which engines there will be in the future for what?..918 engine, new 4 turbo for boxster, new 6 turbo for 991.2 or 992..new DFI engine for racing..B8 for 960..Im getting lost...and Im not even talking about the panamera and cayenne series..

Engine chaos? Porsche has everything planned for the next couple of years, I wouldn't call this chaos just because they don't show (all) their (engine) cards too early.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

Hi RC,

"Engine chaos" is of course not the right word..I know that regulations are the main driver for these changes and to certain degree thats also good...new innovations + more fuel efficieny...- although I want to keep on buying old schools cars as long as possible..:)

But anyway, on the engines..new B8, 991.2 B6turbo , boxster B4 turbo...maybe you would know more about it....just give us one card :)

thanks anyway

GTlover:

Hi RC,

"Engine chaos" is of course not the right word..I know that regulations are the main driver for these changes and to certain degree thats also good...new innovations + more fuel efficieny...- although I want to keep on buying old schools cars as long as possible..:)

But anyway, on the engines..new B8, 991.2 B6turbo , boxster B4 turbo...maybe you would know more about it....just give us one card :)

thanks anyway

I already "burnt" my tongue regarding the 991 Turbo S engine... 

I agree with you, I prefer a V8 or turbo charged Boxer engine over the rumored 4-cyl. turbo charged engines and even the new turbo charged V6 in the Panamera and the upcoming Cayenne facelift. It isn't Porsche's fault though, they have to live with new environmental laws and the only way to adapt is to downsize where it is not only possible but also "acceptable" (from a marketing/customer acceptance point of view). To be blunt: I would never buy a Cayenne with a turbo charged V6, even if it had 700 horses. Call me dumb but this is how I feel. Same goes to the Panamera. The 911 is of course a different story but a turbo charged 4-cyl. engine in a 911? No way, sorry. NEVER...for ME. I highly doubt this is the way Porsche is going with the 911, I rather think they are going to use a 6-cyl. turbo charged engine with much less capacity (a turbo charged 2.5l Boxer 6-cyl....why not?). The moment Porsche offers a 4-cyl. engine in the 911, they are going to destroy the 911 "brand".

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

RC:

I already "burnt" my tongue regarding the 991 Turbo S engine... 

I agree with you, I prefer a V8 or turbo charged Boxer engine over the rumored 4-cyl. turbo charged engines and even the new turbo charged V6 in the Panamera and the upcoming Cayenne facelift. It isn't Porsche's fault though, they have to live with new environmental laws and the only way to adapt is to downsize where it is not only possible but also "acceptable" (from a marketing/customer acceptance point of view). To be blunt: I would never buy a Cayenne with a turbo charged V6, even if it had 700 horses. Call me dumb but this is how I feel. Same goes to the Panamera. The 911 is of course a different story but a turbo charged 4-cyl. engine in a 911? No way, sorry. NEVER...for ME. I highly doubt this is the way Porsche is going with the 911, I rather think they are going to use a 6-cyl. turbo charged engine with much less capacity (a turbo charged 2.5l Boxer 6-cyl....why not?). The moment Porsche offers a 4-cyl. engine in the 911, they are going to destroy the 911 "brand".

Well said, a 4 cyl. doesn't match the 911,like a 6 cyl. doesn't match the Cayenne/Panamera.

--

997TT RS Tuning stage II(sold),2011 Cayenne Turbo

RC:

GTlover:

Hi RC,

"Engine chaos" is of course not the right word..I know that regulations are the main driver for these changes and to certain degree thats also good...new innovations + more fuel efficieny...- although I want to keep on buying old schools cars as long as possible..:)

But anyway, on the engines..new B8, 991.2 B6turbo , boxster B4 turbo...maybe you would know more about it....just give us one card :)

thanks anyway

I already "burnt" my tongue regarding the 991 Turbo S engine... 

I agree with you, I prefer a V8 or turbo charged Boxer engine over the rumored 4-cyl. turbo charged engines and even the new turbo charged V6 in the Panamera and the upcoming Cayenne facelift. It isn't Porsche's fault though, they have to live with new environmental laws and the only way to adapt is to downsize where it is not only possible but also "acceptable" (from a marketing/customer acceptance point of view). To be blunt: I would never buy a Cayenne with a turbo charged V6, even if it had 700 horses. Call me dumb but this is how I feel. Same goes to the Panamera. The 911 is of course a different story but a turbo charged 4-cyl. engine in a 911? No way, sorry. NEVER...for ME. I highly doubt this is the way Porsche is going with the 911, I rather think they are going to use a 6-cyl. turbo charged engine with much less capacity (a turbo charged 2.5l Boxer 6-cyl....why not?). The moment Porsche offers a 4-cyl. engine in the 911, they are going to destroy the 911 "brand".

Hi RC,

fully agree..but I heard/rumors: 991.2 only with 6 cyilder turbo - downsized however. Boxster 981.2: for sure 4 cylinder turbo as an addition..

Sooner or later we will get there..whether we like it or not. Thats why I always say: I will keep my old fashioned 997 GT3 and GT2..Porsche wont build such cars anymore..and lets see what the future brings...

I wouldn't mind at all a 3.0 L flat six VTG twin-turbo with 450 HP for the next Carrera S. Good power with lower taxes (engine size and CO2) and lower consumption. 

Also, for the type of customer who chooses to buy the entry level Boxster, the flat 4 would be ideal. 

The motto of the motor industry is "power with efficiency". The era of waste is over.

--

"Form follows function"

GTlover:

 

Sooner or later we will get there..whether we like it or not. Thats why I always say: I will keep my old fashioned 997 GT3 and GT2..Porsche wont build such cars anymore..and lets see what the future brings...

There is one car I regret not buying when I had the chance to (but unfortunately not the money): The 997 GT2 RS.

At some point, I wanted to get a 997 GT3 RS 4.0 but apparently not all owners are happy with it (engine issues???), so I am glad I skipped this one, even if it was the last (and most powerful) N/A Mezger engine equipped car.

997 GT2 RS...I am pretty sure that this car will be always special in the Porsche family.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

RC:

At some point, I wanted to get a 997 GT3 RS 4.0 but apparently not all owners are happy with it (engine issues???), so I am glad I skipped this one, even if it was the last (and most powerful) N/A Mezger engine equipped car.

I just had a campaign completed on my RS 4.0 to replace the intake manifold "tuning valve" assembly.  There are throttle-like disk valves that open and shut intake resonator tubes that are actuated via plastic rotating shafts.  These shafts can apparently fail and cause problems.  The "cure" is to replace the entire assembly with a new, improved version.

The car still runs great and is a joy to drive.

Here's a photo I took at the Porsche Museum that seems to show a cut-away of a similar assembly with brass shafts:

--

Mike

Carrera GT + Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S + Panamera Turbo +  BMW Z8 + BMW 3.0 CSi + Bentley Arnage T + GT3 RS 4.0

RC:

GTlover:

 

Sooner or later we will get there..whether we like it or not. Thats why I always say: I will keep my old fashioned 997 GT3 and GT2..Porsche wont build such cars anymore..and lets see what the future brings...

There is one car I regret not buying when I had the chance to (but unfortunately not the money): The 997 GT2 RS.

At some point, I wanted to get a 997 GT3 RS 4.0 but apparently not all owners are happy with it (engine issues???), so I am glad I skipped this one, even if it was the last (and most powerful) N/A Mezger engine equipped car.

997 GT2 RS...I am pretty sure that this car will be always special in the Porsche family.

 RC:  we have in our Porsche Club a guy whose RS 4.0 has spent 6 weeks in the workshop awaiting for engine replacement (no statement from the dealer on what is wrong with it). He told me that he dynoed his 4.0 and the power output was 456 HP  while another RS 4.0 owner had 458 Hp (both on 98 RON fuel), that would be a major difference vs the declared power output . Now I don`t know how reliable are those dyno tests nevertheless I read of similar experiences on Italian Porsche forums so I guess there might be something true in it.  Said that the RS 4.0 is a fantastic car .

--

911 Club Coupe, 993 4S Riviera Blau, 12' Audi S4 Avant

BjoernB:

nberry:

PBS2010:

My current Porsche has PCCBs and the one before did not.  I immediately noticed the difference in terms of brake feel and performance.  I was really amazed with the PCCBs and will not have anything else.  However, with time and wear and a few track sessions, the supersharp initial brake bite goes off.

Once the super bite wears off as a result of use and track work, do the PCCB's than brake similar to steel brakes? I am conflicted as to whether to order them for the GT3.  

 Nick , the PCCB always have a better "top end" bite (feel while slightly applying) compared to the steel - but trust me in saying that there is NOTHING wrong with the steel ones. For me it's just a option for those who want less unsprung weight (real benefit) and don't care about costs. Most frequent track-users have steel and are perfectly happy with it. You're tires will blow first before even the steel give up (correct track brake fluid is more the issue) So safe the money - Porsche brakes are amazing in any case !

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

There are two distinct aspects to the question: in terms of feel, it is a no brainer and the PCCBs win by far (break feel, precision, road handling, steering).  For me, breaking has become an enjoyable part of the sporty driving of the car, particularly on the road where you can arrive at speed and slow down hilariously late and fast and get the car to turn exactly where you want it to.  It allows also to retain the full breaking capacity of the car and therefore the driver’s confidence in the car going fast downhill.  A couple of summers ago, a guy in an M3 was racing me and was following me uphill on a mountain pass in the Alps.  Then we reached the top of the pass.  I do not remember whether it was at the third or fourth corner downhill that there was no more M3 in my mirror!

PPCSs costs, however, are a separate chapter.  It is important to bear in mind that the cost of the PCCBs as an option on a newly-ordered car is only a fraction of the replacement cost should your existing PCCBs be dead or damaged (I was told about 25kE for all four).  With road use, I have full confidence that the PCCBs will hold.  With track use, I am worried. If you really intend to give the car 100% on the track, especially on those circuits with one or more heavy breaking zones (eg, after a long straight where you arrive at above 200km/H to turn into a hairpin or slow corner), then the brakes suffer and get hot.  Just look at some GT3s or GT3 RSs which are heavily tracked and you will see that the red calipers are not red anymore (they generally are steel brakes), because of the heat.  The practical technological fault of the system Porsche ought to have resolved is that you get no indication, in the car, of the temperature of the brakes (disks / pads / calipers).  It seems that such dashboard indication is available in recent Ferraris.  I understand you can put on each caliper a special sticker which changes color depending on the temperatures attained, making it a sort of “thermometer” of the heat borne by each caliper.  Of course, in order to read this piece of information you need to get out of the car! … and it may be too late!  My practical recommendation is to do a slow lap at guessed appropriate intervals, depending on how the car was driven and on the track, regardless of whether or not you feel your brakes are tired.

The other hazard is if you go off track to into the gravel zone at significant speed.  PCCBs and gravel impacts do not make good friends.

Therefore, if you are a fully dedicated track driver and intend to get the car to its maximum, PCCBs will cost you a fortune.

Some people (who can afford it both financially and for what it implies as a practical matter) are wise to resort to two sets of brakes:  a set of steel brakes for the track and the PCCBs for the road.  I even read somewhere recently that Porsche was offering the steel parts to fit on PCCBs-fitted 991 GT3s.  It may be worth enquiring.

Cheers.

W8MM:

RC:

At some point, I wanted to get a 997 GT3 RS 4.0 but apparently not all owners are happy with it (engine issues???), so I am glad I skipped this one, even if it was the last (and most powerful) N/A Mezger engine equipped car.

I just had a campaign completed on my RS 4.0 to replace the intake manifold "tuning valve" assembly.  There are throttle-like disk valves that open and shut intake resonator tubes that are actuated via plastic rotating shafts.  These shafts can apparently fail and cause problems.  The "cure" is to replace the entire assembly with a new, improved version.

The car still runs great and is a joy to drive.

--

Mike

Carrera GT + Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S + Panamera Turbo +  BMW Z8 + BMW 3.0 CSi + Bentley Arnage T + GT3 RS 4.0

I had also heard rumors of more substantial (internal) engine issues also.  Not sure if there is any truth in them or not.

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

m4ever:

RC:  we have in our Porsche Club a guy whose RS 4.0 has spent 6 weeks in the workshop awaiting for engine replacement (no statement from the dealer on what is wrong with it). He told me that he dynoed his 4.0 and the power output was 456 HP  while another RS 4.0 owner had 458 Hp (both on 98 RON fuel), that would be a major difference vs the declared power output . Now I don`t know how reliable are those dyno tests nevertheless I read of similar experiences on Italian Porsche forums so I guess there might be something true in it.  Said that the RS 4.0 is a fantastic car .--

911 Club Coupe, 993 4S Riviera Blau, 12' Audi S4 Avant

I assume those dyno numbers are from an engine dyno, not at the rear wheels?

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

Interesting information. It is my understanding that the new PCCB's are much better than the ones on the 997's. I suspect they would have to be since they apparently the same brakes on the 918.

Also,  if the PCCB's need to be replaced one could opt for the steel. Granted it would be a waste of money to have bought them in the first place.

The new 991 GT3 RS will definitely not be shown at the IAA car show starting next week.

Grant:

W8MM:

I just had a campaign completed on my RS 4.0 to replace the intake manifold "tuning valve" assembly.  There are throttle-like disk valves that open and shut intake resonator tubes that are actuated via plastic rotating shafts.  These shafts can apparently fail and cause problems.  The "cure" is to replace the entire assembly with a new, improved version.

I had also heard rumors of more substantial (internal) engine issues also.  Not sure if there is any truth in them or not.

According to my dealer, if the plastic shafts fail, parts can fall into the intake valves, etc., or some such.

Mike

Carrera GT + Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S + Panamera Turbo +  BMW Z8 + BMW 3.0 CSi + Bentley Arnage T + GT3 RS 4.0

Received a call from dealer today. My build date was moved from second quarter 2014 to December of this year. Delivery late January or early Feb 2014.

good news,isn't it?

997TT RS Tuning stage II(sold),2011 Cayenne Turbo

nberry:

Received a call from dealer today. My build date was moved from second quarter 2014 to December of this year. Delivery late January or early Feb 2014.

 

great news 

 997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

Is this due to reduced demand for the other models, creating available capacity for the in demand GT3?

"Form follows function"

I have no idea what is going on with Porsche. Apparently, others who were slated for first and second quarter builds 2014 were moved up to this year like I was. My dealer told me those ahead of me were not ready to order. It could be that many are waiting for the sport seats which are rumored to be available early next year.

I am happy to be ordering earlier. Sport bucket seats on long drives are not very comfortable. To track the car would require me to drive 2 1/2 hours each way to get to the track.

People waiting for the RS?

Maybe the SportAuto Ring results?

Or they are getting the turbo...

SciFrog:

Or they are getting the turbo...

Perhaps there's too many 991 variants and the differential between those variants is too small. 

perhaps demand for 991 GT3 is not as strong as expected ... 

sfo:

perhaps 991 GT3 is not as strong as expected ... 

Exactly.  Porsche, for decades, has built a wild-child variant of the 911 and the new 991 GT3 seems to have moved away from that formula.  While the new GT3 is a very capable performer on the track, at least according to the numerous and favorable reviews, it seems a bit too cultured and refined to carry the badge.  

You guys are all kidding yourselves. One guy on here has his order shifted forward (granted not the factory production date moving just some other depositors falling away or moving to a later date) and the doom mongers start saying its a flop LOL!

I spoke with my European dealer on Monday and he spoke with the factory and they are still having trouble meeting right hand drive production schedules. The sale order books are full in most countries I know buyers in. Cant speak for the States but still hearing stories of US buyers finding it very difficult to get an allocation until late 2014...

macca993:

You guys are all kidding yourselves. One guy on here has his order shifted forward (granted not the factory production date moving just some other depositors falling away or moving to a later date) and the doom mongers start saying its a flop LOL!

I spoke with my European dealer on Monday and he spoke with the factory and they are still having trouble meeting right hand drive production schedules. The sale order books are full in most countries I know buyers in. Cant speak for the States but still hearing stories of US buyers finding it very difficult to get an allocation until late 2014...

I've heard different rumblings on this side of the pond.

CGX. You have probably seen the same OP post on Rennlist where you hang out like me. Ive not seen any other talk about this. As far as I can see it emminates from a single persons comment.

I have a contact at PAG and will send email today. The last I heard from Suttgart was they were still struggling with prodiction slots for the 991 GT3 and we unlikely to fulfill teh demand. They were hoping to get the RS into the pipeline early to allow the demand lines to settle out so they can dee where the short spots were.